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[Kenpachii]

What's so mindboggling with russia is that they have a shit ton of land far more then they ever need, yet they need more.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It's always disappointing to see this thread has activity, then open it and see it's nothing about the war progress

Yes, I'm aware I'm adding a new post. But you get what I mean.

Progress has stalled because the Russian army instead of using the fortifications they build to play the depth defense that is in their doctrine, they’re instead throwing everything they have at the Ukrainians at great cost to stop the lines from moving so useful idiots and troll farms can parrot the “campaign has stalled” narrative.

This is obviously quickly degrading it’s forces, but it’s a political decision not a military one.

 

[FunkMiller]

My only plan is "War bad. Stop war."

Plenty of people for whom war was really, really fucking good:

Jews in Europe in the 40s.
Black people in America in the 19th century.
Muslims in Eastern Europe in the 90s.

The only two ways that would make you think war is always bad is because you are a Putin shill, or have no clue about geopolitics or warfare throughout human history.

 

[Tams]

Plenty of people for whom war was really, really fucking good:

Jews in Europe in the 40s.
Black people in America in the 19th century.
Muslims in Eastern Europe in the 90s.

The only two ways that would make you think war is always bad is because you are a Putin shill, or have no clue about geopolitics or warfare throughout human history.

You forgot women. It certainly did more than the suffragette movement (which arguably ended up doing more harm to female suffrage).

 

[Liljagare]

Watch this latest video from russian state TV.
It will be shown at russia’s tribunal. It will be studied in history classes by your children and grand children.
“You understand that this list [of territories to be conquered] is incomplete. Everyone understands that this list is incomplete.”
“It doesn’t matter what you call it …denazification or demilitarisation. Call it whatever you want. Everyone knows what it really means …the restoration of the russian empire.”
“There are some nations whose existence is pointless.”
This is just one clip of thousands of hours of footage in which the hatred and genocidal intentions of russia are on full display. It’s all documented for history.
He’s right when he says everyone already knows what is happening.
This is your regular reminder that future generations will not be in any doubt that you know right now that russia is a genocidal imperial aggressor. It’s very open about it.
Polling in russia shows russians overwhelmingly believe the goal of their war is territorial conquest, not any of the excuses peddled by its supporters abroad.
All of us around the world will have no plausible deniability that we didn’t know what was going on.
You can see these clips.
You can see the dictator literally standing over imperial era maps, comparing himself to other tsars, and discussing the erasure of a sovereign nation.
You can read endless, carefully documented testimonies from people who have escaped the horrors of russian occupation and its very clearly genocidal nature.
You know about all this. You scrolled past it. History will judge what you do now based on the fact that you know.
It’s the reason no one has ever expressed any confusion about russia’s talk of imperial conquest or its use of neo-nazis to achieve it. Not a single person has ever said: “wait, this doesn’t make sense if it’s just a special operation to denazify and demilitarise Ukraine”. No one has ever said that because, as russian TV makes clear, no one is in doubt about what all this is really about.
Russian soldiers who feign ignorance of being invaders when they are captured actually have no problem boasting of their atrocities in intercepted phone calls.
Academics who insist the war is in some way excusable are suddenly very articulate about why imperialism and genocide is wrong when russia is not doing it.
They know. They have just chosen to support genocidal imperialism in this case. Don’t let them gaslight you with excuses.
There’s one irony here though.
Russia’s war is based on denying the agency of Ukrainians and all nations in the way of russia’s expansionist aggression. However, the key to ending this is for us to respect the agency of those who deny ours.
Don’t think of them as brainwashed or too stupid to know what’s going on.
Respect their agency as supporters of imperial genocide. They are responsible for everything they are doing and must face the consequences of that.
One day, the chorus of propaganda offering excuses will fall silent, as it did during the Nuremberg tribunal. The horrors of russia’s genocidal crimes will be more fully documented.
As after Nuremberg, no one in the future will give a shit about the excuses offered in our era to deny or delay the defeat of the genocidal aggressor and bring its leaders to justice.
Make sure you can look your children and grandchildren in the eye and tell them what you did now to help achieve that.
Send this clip to The Hague, along with all the others.
#SpecialTribunalNow

 

[winjer]

A bit of honesty from Russians, publicly admitting their true intentions.
Maybe now, those "useful idiots" can stop claiming this war was caused by NATO.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

What's so mindboggling with russia is that they have a shit ton of land far more then they ever need, yet they need more.

Their economy is so garbage and dependent on oil / gas that they want countries like Ukraine who has a giant agriculture system.

 

[winjer]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Plenty of people for whom war was really, really fucking good:

Jews in Europe in the 40s.
Black people in America in the 19th century.
Muslims in Eastern Europe in the 90s.

The only two ways that would make you think war is always bad is because you are a Putin shill, or have no clue about geopolitics or warfare throughout human history.

Now compare and contrast that list with the list in which war was bad. Don't just count the casualties either.

The only way you can think war is always good is if you're on the board of Lockheed Martin profiting off the deaths of the lower classes, or you have no clue about geopolitics or warfare throughout human history.

It's easy to be pro war when don't see or experience its atrocities from the comfort of your gaming chair 5,000 miles away.

Note: I don't actually agree with this tone. I'm merely mirroring yours to illustrate how religious and tribal this is. The religious part of the human brain demands its heretics.

 

[FunkMiller]

Now compare and contrast that list with the list in which war was bad. Don't just count the casualties either.

Where did I say war isn’t ever bad? Stop having an argument no one is trying to make with you.

Point being, your claim that all war is bad is blatantly not true. War is sometimes necessary, right and moral.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Point being, your claim that all war is bad is blatantly not true. War is sometimes necessary, right and moral.

Easy to say from your gaming chair. Harder to say when shrapnel has pierced your spinal chord and lungs due to wealthy people fighting over patches of land.

 

[FunkMiller]

Easy to say from your gaming chair. Harder to say when shrapnel has pierced your spinal chord and lungs due to wealthy people fighting over patches of land.

What even is this weird ass argument you’re trying to have?

War is violent and nasty, so it’s always wrong? Better people go to gas chambers than a war is fought?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What even is this weird ass argument you’re trying to have?

War is violent and nasty, so it’s always wrong? Better people go to gas chambers than a war is fought?

Or what about...and consider this...gas chambers bad but also...war bad.

I know it's complicated so take your time.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Are you really trying to defend that we should not help Ukraine defend itself from another Russian invasion?
That maybe we should just cross our hands and look away while people are massacred?
Or that we should be neutral in this conflict?

We've done that countless of time before, and are still doing it for other conflicts and injustices around the world we completely ignore or know nothing about since it isn't all over the newspaper.

Its ok to live a life of working during the day, sitting on your chair at night to play games and going out on the weekend with your family without worrying about terrible things happening halfway accross the globe. This idea we must be hero of everything is really silly, and unrealistic, you're just one man.

And its not like making up shitty theories on the best course of action on a gaming forum will do a damn thing anyway.

 

[Liljagare]

A bit of honesty from Russians, publicly admitting their true intentions.
Maybe now, those "useful idiots" can stop claiming this war was caused by NATO.

It is a bit wierd that one every three pages or so, you need to remind people that RuSSia wants to wipe Ukraine off the face of the planet, and exterminate the citizens. That is what it is about.

 

[Romulus]

Or what about...and consider this...gas chambers bad but also...war bad.

I know it's complicated so take your time.

Just out of curiosity, what should Ukraine have done in your view when they were first invaded?

 

[winjer]

We've done that countless of time before, and are still doing it for other conflicts and injustices around the world we completely ignore or know nothing about since it isn't all over the newspaper.

Its ok to live a life of working during the day, sitting on your chair at night to play games and going out on the weekend with your family without worrying about terrible things happening halfway accross the globe. This idea we must be hero of everything is really silly, and unrealistic, you're just one man.

And its not like making up shitty theories on the best course of action on a gaming forum will do a damn thing anyway.

For once, the USA and Europe are on the right side, helping a country survive an invasion.
Too many times, we just stood by while Russia invaded their neighbors.

 

[Guilty_AI]

For once, the USA and Europe are on the right side, helping a country survive an invasion.
Too many times, we just stood by while Russia invaded their neighbors.

Survive? Even if the Russians are kicked out, its already dead. We've seen this movie countless times in the middle-east, what awaits Ukraine is either bloody Tyranny by Russia or bloody Tyranny by themselves. Thats the future for smaller war-thorn nations stuck between super powers, and its a future that gets worse each day the war lasts.

 

[winjer]

Survive? Even if the Russians are kicked out, its already dead. We've seen this movie countless times in the middle-east, what awaits Ukraine is either bloody Tyranny by Russia or bloody Tyranny by themselves. Thats the future for smaller war-thorn nations stuck between super powers, and its a future that gets worse each day the war lasts.

Dead? Not even close.
Ukraine has survived quite a few Russian invasions and genocides. They are hardy people, with a strong resolve.
And with the help of the EU and USA, they can rebuild and get back to their lives.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Survive? Even if the Russians are kicked out, its already dead. We've seen this movie countless times in the middle-east, what awaits Ukraine is either bloody Tyranny by Russia or bloody Tyranny by themselves. Thats the future for smaller war-thorn nations stuck between super powers, and its a future that gets worse each day the war lasts.

I feel dumber for reading this. I hope you feel ashamed for posting this nonsense.

 

[SiteSeer]

just got told by an anonymous mod to shut the fuck up or be banned. just talking like a retarded free man but i really rustled someone’s jimmies. lol slava ukraini!

 

[MisterFalcon]

Easy to say from your gaming chair. Harder to say when shrapnel has pierced your spinal chord and lungs due to wealthy people fighting over patches of land.

It's that or at some point after the 'peace agreement' getting your door kicked in by drunk Russians who will steal, rape and murder everything and everyone.

Russia will not stop trying to genocide until their military is reduced to being unable to. Nothing else will work, not sanctions, not UN resolutions, not talks and certainly not the Russian people suddenly deciding genocide is bad.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Just out of curiosity, what should Ukraine have done in your view when they were first invaded?

I don't have an opinion on that. I believed in WMD in Iraq as a dumb teenager. Everyone in corporate media was pushing that lie at the time. If you opposed the war in Iraq, you were a Saddam shill...or something. Now we're repeating the same process here.

It is a bit wierd that one every three pages or so, you need to remind people that RuSSia wants to wipe Ukraine off the face of the planet, and exterminate the citizens. That is what it is about.

That doesn't sound like war time propaganda to you?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Dead? Not even close.
Ukraine has survived quite a few Russian invasions and genocides. They are hardy people, with a strong resolve.
And with the help of the EU and USA, they can rebuild and get back to their lives.

Tell me what to do about the pro-russia ukranian separatists on the east then.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's that or at some point after the 'peace agreement' getting your door kicked in by drunk Russians who will steal, rape and murder everything and everyone.

Russia will not stop trying to genocide until their military is reduced to being unable to. Nothing else will work, not sanctions, not UN resolutions, not talks and certainly not the Russian people suddenly deciding genocide is bad.

Is that the truth or is that war time propaganda?

The propaganda during every war paints the other side as murderous, raping, barbarians. Every nation uses the same playbook.

How do you know your position is accurate?

 

[winjer]

Tell me what to do about the pro-russia ukranian separatists on the east then.

Let the join the great Russian empire.
Just put them in a bus and send them off to Putin. He'll be glad to have more bodies for his next invasion.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Let the join the great Russian empire.
Just put them in a bus and send them off to Putin. He'll be glad to have more bodies for his next invasion.

yes, put millions of people on trains and carry them "away"

 

[winjer]

yes, put millions of people on trains and carry them "away"

You do realize that is what Russia did with the original people of Crimea, the Tartars.
Thousands were sent to Siberia, where most of them died.

You are so concerned about how we should not hurt Russians. All the while, Russians are commiting all sort of crimes against humanity, against Ukrainians, Georgians, Syrians, Chechens, etc....
But no, unlike what you said, I don't think we should send them to concentration camps. Just send them back to the country they like so much.

 

[Guilty_AI]

You do realize that is what Russia did with the original people of Crimea, the Tartars.
Thousands were sent to Siberia, where most of them died.

You are so concerned about how we should not hurt Russians. All the while, Russians are commiting all sort of crimes against humanity, against Ukrainians, Georgians, Syrians, Chechens, etc....
But no, unlike what you said, I don't think we should send them to concentration camps. Just send them back to the country they like so much.

But how? We're talking about millions of people, many of which support Russia, natural considering many ukranians in eastern Ukraine are themselves descendant of russians.

How do you identify who is or isn't in favor of russian annexation? I guarantee they wouldn't be walking around with Z badges and have putin photographs on their bedside.

 

[Liljagare]

That doesn't sound like war time propaganda to you?

Just look a few posts up and see it being said on RuSSkie state television.

You scrolled past it though, didn't you?

 

[winjer]

But how? We're talking about millions of people, many of which support Russia, natural considering many ukranians in eastern Ukraine are themselves descendant of russians.

How do you identify who is or isn't in favor of russian annexation? I guarantee they wouldn't be walking around with Z badges and have putin photographs on their bedside.

Don't worry, plenty of them will tell you exactly who they support.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Don't worry, plenty of them will tell you exactly who they support.

They didn't. Instead they are meeting in secret and planning to continue ongoing civil war that, just like before, will get support from Russia. What now?

 

[MisterFalcon]

Is that the truth or is that war time propaganda?

The propaganda during every war paints the other side as murderous, raping, barbarians. Every nation uses the same playbook.

How do you know your position is accurate?

Every communication and action by Russia the last 18 months confirms they are in this until the bitter end. Imagine the rants of the most over the top movie villain and Russian officials have said it.

The term "army of rapists and murderers" for instance has been used many times in the past for propaganda but it's exactly what Russia did, create an army of rapists and murderers to fight Ukraine.

 

[winjer]

They didn't. Instead they are meeting in secret and planning to continue ongoing civil war that, just like before, will get support from Russia. What now?

Plenty of them have already spoken their minds on social media. So it's not that difficult to identify.
And the very worst, took jobs for the Russian administration in those areas.

But why do you cuddle Russians so much? Why are you so protective of a people that has done so much terrible things to all the people around them? Even to this day.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Just look a few posts up and see it being said on RuSSkie state television.

You scrolled past it though, didn't you?

Yeah, I didn't see it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Plenty of them have already spoken their minds on social media. So it's not that difficult to identify.
And the very worst, took jobs for the Russian administration in those areas.

But why do you cuddle Russians so much? Why are you so protective of a people that has done so much terrible things to all the people around them? Even to this day.

"Plenty" is far too vague and social media too liquid for any decisive action. And why do you think i'm talking about russian people? I'm talking about ukranians, more specifically the ukrainians living in the eastern regions of the country.

I've asked you a simple question on how to keep Ukraine a stable country post-war, in a scenario where Ukraine takes back all of their pre-2014 territory, and all of your answers so far involved mass deportations and persecution of vague portions of the population with "sure fire" methods of identification that certainly are "fire" but not in the least bit "sure", stuff straight out of soviet 'peace-keeping' manuals that makes Stalin proud.

And the saddest part is that you're most likely right. Not in the sense that these are good solutions, but in that these things are exactly what leadership would do in such scenario. All that awaits Ukraine is hardship and bloody forms of government, thats the unfortunate reality you're confirming.

 

[FunkMiller]

The propaganda during every war paints the other side as murderous, raping, barbarians. Every nation uses the same playbook.

There are multiple, independently verified accounts of Russian soldiers committing atrocities in Ukraine.

Here’s a report on just the latest findings:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ian-victims-death-un-inquiry-says-2023-09-25/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09...-ukrainians-to-death-united-nations/102899920

 

[winjer]

"Plenty" is far too vague and social media too liquid for any decisive action. And why do you think i'm talking about russian people? I'm talking about ukranians, more specifically the ukrainians living in the eastern regions of the country.

I've asked you a simple question on how to keep Ukraine a stable country post-war, in a scenario where Ukraine takes back all of their pre-2014 territory, and all of your answers so far involved mass deportations and persecution of vague portions of the population with "sure fire" methods of identification that certainly are "fire" but not in the least bit "sure", stuff straight out of soviet 'peace-keeping' manuals that makes Stalin proud.

And the saddest part is that you're most likely right. Not in the sense that these are good solutions, but in that these things are exactly what leadership would do in such scenario. All that awaits Ukraine is hardship and bloody forms of government, thats the unfortunate reality you're confirming.

If you know anything about Russian 20th century in Europe, then you will know that they have done plenty of removal of people from their home lands. And plenty of genocide to give way to Russian settlers.
Do you really think it's so bad to reverse this trend a bit and let each people live out their lives, instead of having to fear the next Russian invasion.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Yeah, I didn't see it.

Regardless of if you saw it or not your takes in here are terrible and show a complete lack of understanding of pretty much anything related to geopolitics, what wars actually are. The difference between different types of wars. Ie a war of aggression, just war etc.

Brush it all away with war is bad and only benefits the establishment. If you can't give an opinion on what is Ukraine supposed to do when A wannabe Hitler invades their country. Then you should maybe not post in here at all. I know your takes are bad from gaming side.. but this is worse.

Btw Putin wrote a book years ago how Ukraine and Ukrainians don't actually exist. Sounds familiar...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There are multiple, independently verified accounts of Russian soldiers committing atrocities in Ukraine.

Here’s a report on just the latest findings:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ian-victims-death-un-inquiry-says-2023-09-25/

Please please PLEASE tell me you don't actually believe Ukranian forces are all boy scouts. All sides commit atrocities during war because military forces are composed of human beings.

It takes 2.7 seconds of Googling to see that.

 

[Guilty_AI]

If you know anything about Russian 20th century in Europe, then you will know that they have done plenty of removal of people from their home lands. And plenty of genocide to give way to Russian settlers.
Do you really think it's so bad to reverse this trend a bit and let each people live out their lives, instead of having to fear the next Russian invasion.

So they'll get back at the russians by.... going scorched earth in their own country? I'm not sure, is that what you're suggesting here?

 

[winjer]

So they'll get back at the russians by.... going scorched earth in their own country? I'm not sure, is that what you're suggesting here?

Why are you constantly misconstruing other people's arguments?
No one talked about scorching earth, or send people to to concentration camps.

 

[LimanimaPT]

More news and less "go to nowhere" arguments...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Regardless of if you saw it or not your takes in here are terrible and show a complete lack of understanding of pretty much anything related to geopolitics, what wars actually are. The difference between different types of wars. Ie a war of aggression, just war etc.

Brush it all away with war is bad and only benefits the establishment. If you can't give an opinion on what is Ukraine supposed to do when A wannabe Hitler invades their country. Then you should maybe not post in here at all. I know your takes are bad from gaming side.. but this is worse.

Btw Putin wrote a book years ago how Ukraine and Ukrainians don't actually exist. Sounds familiar...

Two types of people...

1. This person disagrees with me. Let me understand why and maybe through exchanging ideas we can get a clearer picture of reality together.

2. This person disagrees with me. They are bad and dumb.

The religious + tribal often find themselves in #2. I'm never impressed by those people.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Why are you constantly misconstruing other people's arguments?
No one talked about scorching earth, or send people to to concentration camps.

What ARE you suggesting them? "Send them back to russia" isn't a solution without either having a sure-fire way of identifying who wants and doesn't want a russian-led government, or without severe collateral damaged followed by denial of basic human rights and dignity.

 

[winjer]

What ARE you suggesting them? "Send them back to russia" isn't a solution without either having a sure-fire way of identifying who wants and doesn't want a russian-led government, or without severe collateral damaged followed by denial of basic human rights and dignity.

Those who are extremely supportive of Russia, already took jobs for the Russian government, administering those regions. Those are already identified.
And these won't be sent to Russia, they will be tried for treason ad crimes against humanity.
Then there are those who are staunch supporters of Russia. And most of these have already expressed their views publicly, be it on social media, or in person, just talking about with other people.
And no, unlike what you say, it's not necessary to send everyone to concentration camps and scorch the region.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Those who are extremely supportive of Russia, already took jobs for the Russian government, administering those regions. Those are already identified.
And these won't be sent to Russia, they will be tried for treason ad crimes against humanity.
Then there are those who are staunch supporters of Russia. And most of these have already expressed their views publicly, be it on social media, or in person, just talking about with other people.
And no, unlike what you say, it's not necessary to send everyone to concentration camps and scorch the region.

Thats still just a fraction of the people you're after. Not to mention there'll remain tons of people with anti-west and anti-west-lead-ukraine sentiments, people who got taught as much or whose family died as a result of the war. It'll go back to civil war in no time, especially with russia's influence who is very unlikely to let go.

 

[winjer]

Thats still just a fraction of the people you're after. Not to mention there'll remain tons of people with anti-west and anti-west-lead-ukraine sentiments, people who got taught as much or whose family died as a result of the war. It'll go back to civil war in no time, especially with russia's influence who is very unlikely to let go.

After WW2, we didn't go after every German. We went after the worst of the Nazi's.

 

[Guilty_AI]

After WW2, we didn't go after every German. We went after the worst of the Nazi's.

It isn't WW2 you should be looking at. Its WW1.

 

[Futaleufu]

Survive? Even if the Russians are kicked out, its already dead. We've seen this movie countless times in the middle-east, what awaits Ukraine is either bloody Tyranny by Russia or bloody Tyranny by themselves. Thats the future for smaller war-thorn nations stuck between super powers, and its a future that gets worse each day the war lasts.

This is going to happen whatever way the war ends. People here forget that there were more than 10 political parties pro-Russia that were banned at the start of the war and that will be back after war ends unless the ugly side of tyranny show his face.