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[6502]

31 tanks seems low...

Is the limiting factor the arms or the crew training?

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Excellent result...Storm Shadow (OH..alright, if you must, possibly SCALP )



Payback for using chemical weapons on UK soil is the gift that keeps on giving.

Live updates: Russia's war in Ukraine

Russian shelling killed three people and wounded at least seven others Sunday in the southern Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions, Ukrainian officials said. Follow here for live updates.

www.cnn.com

"Russia's Black Sea Fleet commander killed: Ukraine has claimed that Admiral Viktor Sokolov, the commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, was killed in a Ukrainian attack in Sevastopol on Friday. He was among 34 officers killed, the Ukrainian Special Operations Forces said in an update Monday, adding that more than 100 other Russian service members were wounded. "

wowza if true

 

[Liljagare]

7 missiles flying towards the occupied peninsula - Russians writes
Local residents report characteristic sounds of Storm Shadow and explosions in the Dzhankoy area.
Air alert in Crimea: the bridge is blocked, an alarm is blaring in Sevastopol, and aviation has been raised.




Hope they hit that bridge again.

US Cluster ATACMS Could Be on Ukraine Battlefields 'Next Week': Ex-Adviser​

US cluster ATACMS could be on Ukraine battlefields "next week": Ex-adviser

Dan Rice, a former aide to Ukraine's commander-in-chief, told Newsweek the U.S. is poised to greenlight the weapon system.

www.newsweek.com

Finally?????

 

[Draugoth]

 

[funkygunther]

oopsie

 

[Lunarorbit]

Reality is not as simple a good vs evil. Not even during WW2.
But let's start with Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine had around 4000 men joining the Nazis. But Ukraine also had 7 Million men fighting against the Nazi.
Current Russian propaganda will try to paint those 4000 as a sign that Ukraine is a Nazi state. But the reality is exactly the opposite, as there were many more Ukrainians fighting against the Nazi.
But even countries like France had men joining the Nazi army. The last SS division to surrender during WW2, was French. And the persecution and extradition of jews from France was not made by the Germans, but by the French police, lead by Maurice Papon.
Turkey had 2 divisions joining the SS. Spain had one division figthing alongside the Nazis, called the Blue Legion.
And the Nuremberg Trials were guarded by an Estonian SS division, the 20th Waffen Grenadier Division.
Finland joined Nazi Germany to retake it's territory from the Soviet Union.
Switzerland banks collaborated extensively with Nazi Germany.
Portugal was selling materials for Nazi Germany. And buying riffles from Germany.
King Edward VIII and many among the British nobility were supportive of Hitler and the Nazi regime.
American companies, like IBM was selling tech to Nazi Germany. And Ford was a avid fan of Hitler and a staunch antisemite.
But the country that most helped Nazi Germany, was the Soviet Union, led by Russia. For many years, they had collaboration projects to develop new weapons, hidden from the limitations of the Versailles treaty.
Russia supplied fuel and many materials for Germany rearmament. For the first couple of years, they were allies under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Russia and Germany invaded Poland in September of 1939, in a two prong attack. Then dividing the country between the two.
Then we had hundreds of German engineers and scientists, being recruited by the USSR or the USA, post war. Many that had their hands blooded in war crimes.
And let's not forget Argentina, who welcomed thousands of Nazi war criminals into their country. Shielding them from a criminal war tribunal

Yes, this situation is unfortunate for Canada, as they failed to verify that guy was a Nazi.
But there are so many pointing fingers to go around, that it makes this situation pointless.

Wah? If you wanna make the argument that not all German soldiers were nazi I would agree with you.

But this old fuck is wearing a SS uniform in the photo. You don't just stumble into the SS. He should have been sentenced or executed decades ago

 

[winjer]

Wah? If you wanna make the argument that not all German soldiers were nazi I would agree with you.

But this old fuck is wearing a SS uniform in the photo. You don't just stumble into the SS. He should have been sentenced or executed decades ago

WTF, I'm not defending that guy.
I'm stating that many countries had collaborators with Nazi Germany. And that reality is not black and white.

 

[Lunarorbit]

WTF, I'm not defending that guy.
I'm stating that many countries had collaborators with Nazi Germany. And that reality is not black and white.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about.

"And that reality is not black and white"
Dudes wearing an SS uniform. That doesn't make what you wrote about companies or countries necessarily wrong but when it comes to individuals as nazis there is no stance thats acceptable

 

[winjer]

Dudes wearing an SS uniform. That doesn't make what you wrote about companies or countries necessarily wrong but when it comes to individuals as nazis there is no stance thats acceptable

There were "dudes" that were forcibly recruited into the SS and Wehrmacht. For example, Polish soldiers defending the Atlantic wall. There were Estonian soldiers joining the SS, so they could fight off Russian invasion. There were Finnish and Swede soldiers fighting along side German soldiers, against Soviet Invasion.
And then there were "dudes" that actively joined the Nazi party and the SS to kill people, steal and commit all types of atrocities. Like the Einsatzgruppen.

Do you really think these dudes are the same?
The reality is that they are not. Because reality is not black or white, not even during WW2.

 

[Lunarorbit]

There were "dudes" that were forcibly recruited into the SS and Wehrmacht. For example, Polish soldiers defending the Atlantic wall. There were Estonian soldiers joining the SS, so they could fight off Russian invasion. There were Finnish and Swede soldiers fighting along side German soldiers, against Soviet Invasion.
And then there were "dudes" that actively joined the Nazi party and the SS to kill people, steal and commit all types of atrocities. Like the Einsatzgruppen.

Do you really think these dudes are the same?
The reality is that they are not. Because reality is not black or white, not even during WW2.

Yeah I do.

 

[RJMacready73]

Yeah I do.

did he have the tattoo?

 

[winjer]

Yeah I do.

It's sad that you can't understand such start differences.

 

[Lunarorbit]

It's sad that you can't understand such start differences.

You know what, you don't ever seem to argue in bad faith so I'll take you at your word about the SS. It's horrible they didn't vet this guy cause either way it's safe to assume that if he was in those units he did some heinous stuff

 

[Fools idol]

damn, there is gruesome video on socials last night of a russian solider trying to escape from his trench with both arms blown off, screaming and crying for his father, before taking a sniper bullet to the face, Which pretty much takes his head clean off.

Ukraine ought to be hacking russian news networks and showing these footage to discourage russian recruits. Hell of a way to go.

I feel sick after seeing it tbh

 

[winjer]

You know what, you don't ever seem to argue in bad faith so I'll take you at your word about the SS. It's horrible they didn't vet this guy cause either way it's safe to assume that if he was in those units he did some heinous stuff

I have to repeat this again. I'm not defending that guy.
From what the Research institute ascertained, he did commit war crimes during WW2.

What I'm saying is that there were people who did not.
For example, Estonians, Swedes and Finnish only joined the axis, so they could protect their own country, families and homes, from Soviet Invasion.
Most of these never committed a single war crime, they only joined the axis, because they had no other choice.
When Finland asked for help to defend itself against the USSR, Britain refused, because they didn't upset Stalin.

 

[Darius87]

damn, there is gruesome video on socials last night of a russian solider trying to escape from his trench with both arms blown off, screaming and crying for his father, before taking a sniper bullet to the face, Which pretty much takes his head clean off.

Ukraine ought to be hacking russian news networks and showing these footage to discourage russian recruits. Hell of a way to go.

I feel sick after seeing it tbh

link?

 

[Fools idol]

link?

It appears to be down already; https://www.tiktok.com/404?fromUrl=/video/72416348783269020463131

Edit yep.. it gone. no doubt you can prolly find it on Xshitter

 

[Reckheim]

I have to repeat this again. I'm not defending that guy.
From what the Research institute ascertained, he did commit war crimes during WW2.

What I'm saying is that there were people who did not.
For example, Estonians, Swedes and Finnish only joined the axis, so they could protect their own country, families and homes, from Soviet Invasion.
Most of these never committed a single war crime, they only joined the axis, because they had no other choice.
When Finland asked for help to defend itself against the USSR, Britain refused, because they didn't upset Stalin.

ok, but what has this got to do with a person that literally volunteered to kill Jews and poles?

We all know war isn't black and white; but its irrelevant in this case since this guy was a straight up nazi.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

damn, there is gruesome video on socials last night of a russian solider trying to escape from his trench with both arms blown off, screaming and crying for his father, before taking a sniper bullet to the face, Which pretty much takes his head clean off.

Ukraine ought to be hacking russian news networks and showing these footage to discourage russian recruits. Hell of a way to go.

I feel sick after seeing it tbh

Can't find it. Is it a video shot during night where the sniper takes about 10 shots at a Russian that's rolling around?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

You know what, you don't ever seem to argue in bad faith so I'll take you at your word about the SS. It's horrible they didn't vet this guy cause either way it's safe to assume that if he was in those units he did some heinous stuff

It's a sad reality that due to their situation, Ukrainians viewed Nazis as liberators from the russian tyrant.

They wanted freedom and the germans were fighting off the russians in ukraine. Ukrainians will have to, at some point, come to terms with the fact that in chosing to fight russia, they had to ally with the nazis.

It's a complex situation that russia has crudely abused for propagandistic reasons.

 

[Fools idol]

Can't find it. Is it a video shot during night where the sniper takes about 10 shots at a Russian that's rolling around?

no. I saw that one also I think.

It was somewhere in the Zaporizhzhia region, the video started with 3 ukraine soldiers sitting in a destroyed barn with some burning russian vehicles in the background. There was screaming coming from one of the vehicles which looked like it had been hit moments ago, huge fire plumes. They are shouting something inaudable and are confused at first if the person in trouble is friend or enemy, but as they get closer one of them shouts 'spuskat sya' or something which I think means like 'take cover' and they all hit the deck. Then they are arguing about going to look and one guy keeps saying dont go, dont go wait for backup.... a few mins later they just start running towards the ditch where the screaming is, and its the driver of the tank or whatever it was, his arms and clothes are completely gone and he's shouting for help / trying to climb out, they say they will not help him, and hes so confused and hard to understand they ask him if he is russian or friendly and he just keeps shouting and crying for his father.

The bodycam wearer then radios for backup and help and then out of nowhere from the field in the background a single shot takes him down. They hold the gun on him at all times.

The ukraine soldiers panic for a second and hit the deck again.. from some noise in the distance. By now there is just lots of smoke everywhere and then they realise he is russian some how and the shot fired is friendly.

Then the video skips forward some time and they are pulling his corpse from the dirtch, saying he is an idiot and he got what he deserved stupid bastard etc, the usual.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

no. I saw that one also I think.

It was somewhere in the Zaporizhzhia region, the video started with 3 ukraine soldiers sitting in a destroyed barn with some burning russian vehicles in the background. There was screaming coming from one of the vehicles which looked like it had been hit moments ago, huge fire plumes. They are shouting something inaudable and are confused at first if the person in trouble is friend or enemy, but as they get closer one of them shouts 'spuskat sya' or something which I think means like 'take cover' and they all hit the deck. Then they are arguing about going to look and one guy keeps saying dont go, dont go wait for backup.... a few mins later they just start running towards the ditch where the screaming is, and its the driver of the tank or whatever it was, his arms and clothes are completely gone and he's shouting for help / trying to climb out, they say they will not help him, and hes so confused and hard to understand they ask him if he is russian or friendly and he just keeps shouting and crying for his father.

The bodycam wearer then radios for backup and help and then out of nowhere from the field in the background a single shot takes him down. They hold the gun on him at all times.

The ukraine soldiers panic for a second and hit the deck again.. from some noise in the distance. By now there is just lots of smoke everywhere and then they realise he is russian some how and the shot fired is friendly.

Then the video skips forward some time and they are pulling his corpse from the dirtch, saying he is an idiot and he got what he deserved stupid bastard etc, the usual.

Damn sounds wild, gotta see that one. He should've shouted for daddy putin instead.

 

[Liljagare]

AFU reached the outskirts of Novoprokopivka, and Russia transferred forces to Tokmak", - ISW
ZSU achieved success near Ivanovsky, Kleshchievka, Oradovka and Zaitsev in the Donetsk region.
Enemy is deployed near Tokmak. His command did not staff a multi-echelon defense.

#UkrainianRailways launches the autonomous kitchen train - Food Train to provide food for liberated Ukrainian settlements. The train can work autonomously for 5-7 days, preparing 10,000 food portions daily.
The train was fully financed by The Howard G. Buffett Foundation

 

[acm2000]

you know full well russia will target that train, whats another war crime among so many

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

‘We Have Machine Guns From 1985’ – Russian Soldier Slams Putin Over Dire Weapons Situation​

kyivpost.com/post/2...

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Russian Soldier Warns of Civil War if Putin Declares Full Mobilization​

yugmarg.online/russia...

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[winjer]

LOL, these morons should remember that Putin and his gang, admires and quotes the likes of Aleksandr Dugin and Ivan Ivan Ilyin.
Russia already is a fascist state, both in ideology and in practice.

 

[darth.shrimp]

Wow, and they don't look at all like actors reading from a script!

 

[Liljagare]

1700+ birds from the Army of Drones are heading to the frontline. These are -made as well as foreign UAVs used by NATO countries. Also there is batch of secret «birds» that've already shown results. Every day we keep sending drones to our heroes & scaling up local production.

 

[Tams]

1700+ birds from the Army of Drones are heading to the frontline. These are -made as well as foreign UAVs used by NATO countries. Also there is batch of secret «birds» that've already shown results. Every day we keep sending drones to our heroes & scaling up local production.

Spicy birbs.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

 

[Daneel Elijah]

It takes time. They want to get back their country and it is easier for us to help them than to be in their place IMHO.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It takes time. They want to get back their country and it is easier for us to help them than to be in their place IMHO.

Tell it to the dead.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Tell it to the dead.

Tell it to the living ones.
Hard situation no matter what. So I prefer helping the ones that do take the hard consequences than simply wanting it to end if the end is not satisfactory. And that word in that context would need a full book of explanations, I know.

 

[Tams]

Yes. Russia should go back to their 2014* borders. The war would be over the moment they do.

Ideally 2007 borders, so they can give Georgia back the territory they have stolen (and continue to steal) there.

 

[Tams]

Tell it to the dead.

The Ukrainians are choosing to fight for their country back.

Begone Russian shill. Or are you Jeremy Corbyn? In which case, find a bin to go live in.

 

[Ozriel]

Tell it to the dead.

If you really cared, you’d be pushing for Russia to pull out of Ukraine. Not doing this bullshit of demanding Ukraine gives up territory to Russia for ‘peace’.

 

[winjer]

This only shows that Europe and the US should have provided more and better equipment sooner.
Those M1 Abrams, F-16, Stormshadows, ATACAMS, etc, shool have been delivered a year ago.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The Ukrainians are choosing to fight for their country back.

Begone Russian shill. Or are you Jeremy Corbyn? In which case, find a bin to go live in.

Ah yes, the "someone disagrees with me so accuse them of being evil" defense. How enlightened.

 

[SiteSeer]

Ah yes, the "someone disagrees with me so accuse them of being evil" defense. How enlightened.

you are committing wrongthink, you thoughtcriminal. begone! glory to ingsoc!

 

[FunkMiller]

Ah yes, the "someone disagrees with me so accuse them of being evil" defense. How enlightened.

I think he accused you of being a Russian shill, actually. I don't think they're necessarily evil - just really, really fucking stupid.

 

[funkygunther]

you are committing wrongthink, you thoughtcriminal. begone! glory to ingsoc!

More like nothink

 

[Reckheim]

Yes. Russia should go back to their 2014* borders. The war would be over the moment they do.

Ideally 2007 borders, so they can give Georgia back the territory they have stolen (and continue to steal) there.

If only it was that easy.

I find this whole 'Russia should leave' argument so lazy. Yes; obviously they should, but they wont.

Someone trying to realistically look at the big picture and the current situation is not automatically a Russian shill. Having blind faith and closing your mind to any criticism doesn't help Ukrainians; might as well send thoughts and prayers.

This only shows that Europe and the US should have provided more and better equipment sooner.
Those M1 Abrams, F-16, Stormshadows, ATACAMS, etc, shool have been delivered a year ago.

Absolutely, and the longer it takes for them to arrive the more Russia will dig in. The west completely failed Ukraine in this regard; while Ukrainian's sacrificed them selves the west dragged their feet on providing actually decent amount of hardware and it shows.

 

[SiteSeer]

If only it was that easy.

I find this whole 'Russia should leave' argument so lazy. Yes; obviously they should, but they wont.

Someone trying to realistically look at the big picture and the current situation is not automatically a Russian shill. Having blind faith and closing your mind to any criticism doesn't help Ukrainians; might as well send thoughts and prayers.


Absolutely, and the longer it takes for them to arrive the more Russia will dig in. The west completely failed Ukraine in this regard; while Ukrainian's sacrificed them selves the west dragged their feet on providing actually decent amount of hardware and it shows.

i guess 130 billion wasn’t enough. 300 billion and boots on the ground ought to have done it.

 

[Ironbunny]

Ah yes, the "someone disagrees with me so accuse them of being evil" defense. How enlightened.

So if we are not helping Ukraine what is your alternative to this? Lay in the plan.

 

[Reckheim]

i guess 130 billion wasn’t enough. 300 billion and boots on the ground ought to have done it.

problem is at what pace the money and hardware came in at; not how much was sent in total.

The counter offensive starter way too late (imo cause Ukraine was waiting for their equipment to arrive and due to the stupid decision of holding Bakhmut). I know its easy to be an arm chair general with 20 20 hindsight. But that's just how I see it.

 

[Tams]

Ah yes, the "someone disagrees with me so accuse them of being evil" defense. How enlightened.

I didn't call you evil.

Though if you're pushing for Ukraine to submit to Russian demands, then you're certainly siding with evil.

At best your own of incredibly naïve and insulated 'Stop the War Coalition' types.

None of which is anything to be proud of.

 

[Tams]

If only it was that easy.

I find this whole 'Russia should leave' argument so lazy. Yes; obviously they should, but they wont.

Someone trying to realistically look at the big picture and the current situation is not automatically a Russian shill. Having blind faith and closing your mind to any criticism doesn't help Ukrainians; might as well send thoughts and prayers.


Absolutely, and the longer it takes for them to arrive the more Russia will dig in. The west completely failed Ukraine in this regard; while Ukrainian's sacrificed them selves the west dragged their feet on providing actually decent amount of hardware and it shows.

You're right. The democratic world should blast the Russia military to smithereens and just be done with it.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So if we are not helping Ukraine what is your alternative to this? Lay in the plan.

I post on a videogame message board from the States.

Why would I have a plan for a geopolitical conflict halfway around the world in an area I know nothing about, informed by a goofy social media and an untrustworthy corporate media? I think a large component of "having a plan" for many, is that it feels good to believe you're morally superior to others online. My only plan is "War bad. Stop war."

Although, to be honest, I'm pretty sure Mark Twain was a Putin shill as well. Brain dead no thinker.