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[Dr.Parity]

Of course it’s relevant to the discussion of what different cultures value. I don’t hear of professors being heckled off of university campuses for not using made-up gender pronouns in China. Chinese universities wouldn’t put up with that because it’s antithetical to their values, and right now they’re kicking our asses in many different areas of STEM. I would be very happy if universities defunded the likes of gender studies and redirected that money to STEM fields. Western countries have grown complacent.

The irony of people who constantly complain to the left about free speech (even though their speech is never in danger) directly advocating for the removal of dissenting opinions on topics they don't think is important is... well, it's not shocking considering it's a common goal for the alt right in the first place.

It's not like Russia is a totalitarian hell-scape where minorities and anyone who doesn't fit the script is targeted, or you know, China where people literally disappear.

 

[NickFire]

As long as Russia limits itself to the US and leaves the rest of the world alone, I can live with it.

I hope you support the US above all the rest, cause Russia would be sniping at land left and right if the US was not backing Europe up.

 

[Lucumo]

I hope you support the US above all the rest, cause Russia would be sniping at land left and right if the US was not backing Europe up.

Supporting the most aggressive nation on earth? Hah, surely you must be joking. Russia ranks only third in that regard and I have no problem with them defending their sphere of influence.

 

[Ridcully]

This is kind of overblown, and I really hope it hasn't been a "wake-up call" to anyone. The US has never been in a position to completely defend against Russia's nuclear arsenal. That it's being talked about at all reminds me of the rationale for the "Dead Hand" system - assurance that in a world where the US pushes the button again, they won't get away with it.

 

[Papa]

The irony of people who constantly complain to the left about free speech (even though their speech is never in danger) directly advocating for the removal of dissenting opinions on topics they don't think is important is... well, it's not shocking considering it's a common goal for the alt right in the first place.

It's not like Russia is a totalitarian hell-scape where minorities and anyone who doesn't fit the script is targeted, or you know, China where people literally disappear.

And there it is, the first alt-right accusation. I am so tired of this ill-defined and overused bogeyman.

I did not call for gender studies to be banned, just not publicly funded. Many of the concepts that originate in gender studies do not add value to society; in fact, they actively seek to undermine it. I am referring to concepts that range from wilfully deceitful manipulation of statistics (gender pay gap) to conspiracy theories (patriarchy theory) to downright absurdities (manufactured gender pronouns). It is entirely self-referential and not subjected to the same level of peer review as other fields of study. However, unlike Jordan Peterson, I don’t think gender studies and its ilk should be disbanded; rather, I think they should be defunded so that they must figure out how to stand on their own two feet, otherwise they inevitably end up as activist factories. I would also like to see them subjected to stricter regulation and enforcement of the peer review process. I think there is value to be gained from an objective, unbiased, genuinely academic study of the roles the different genders have in a society that is no longer exposed to an existential threat (war) and with continuously evolving technology. Unfortunately, that is not what gender studies currently is.

You’re absolutely right about the Russian and Chinese governments, but the point I am making is about the priorities of the citizens, not the actions of their governments. I teach engineering at a university in Australia and I estimate that 80% of my students are international, mainly from China, India and the Middle East, with half of the remaining 20% being first generation descendants of immigrants. Australians do not choose to do STEM degrees at the same rates as international students because they simply don’t have to, and I assume it is similar in the US, Canada, etc. It is possible to both do what you want and live a comfortable life here; we can have our cake and eat it too. It’s not the same elsewhere and hence different cultures have different values. I have had many international students, from Iran particularly, tell me that their parents pushed them to do engineering and, while they weren’t passionate about it, they see it as their way to a better life.

The easy counter-argument is to say that it’s possible for gender studies (I pick on gender studies because it’s the worst offender, but I also refer to other similar humanities fields) and STEM to co-exist, but that’s not entirely accurate with a finite pool of public funding. The important thing is how that funding is allocated relative to other potential superpowers like Russia and China. Right now, the US is still the world’s primary superpower and hence exporter of culture. However, if China and/or Russia displace the US in terms of global influence, do you think the world will be better or worse in terms of your values? As you rightly point out, their governments kill dissenting citizens. Such change does not happen overnight but over a long period of time as a result of the complacency of those in power.

 

[Dr.Parity]

If the shoe fits, wear it.

You called for a public funding to be cut from any programs you deem don't fit the public interest. You know how authoritarian that is to be the one who declares what's in the public interest, especially when the subject is the social sciences behind the understanding of gender and all the connected societal issues that stem from things like our understandings of sexuality and gender identity?

Your claims that somehow gender studies are "unscientific" lack any real world examples and is a broad stroke that deems anything humanitarian in study is useless (well, you deem it dangerous). How do you even go about regulating education? What is exactly biased about having studies of gender understanding and societal impacts for such concepts, especially in a rapidly changing society where gender norms and gender roles are rapidly changing due to the shifting workplace and family structures. Defunding is an extremely common and well known tactic by political opponents to end programs they deem to be unsavory. So trying to play the middle ground by advocating for defunding doesn't pass the smell test.

An example of this in practice is the attempts to defund the ACA, which would make it ineffective in it's purpose, which those who oppose (and caused the defunding) could use as proof that the program isn't working and should be repealed. It's a vicious cycle of action and logic to reach a predetermined goal.

Don't think I'm going to be taking education reforms from you seriously when you think gender studies and humanities is the prime example of the downfall of western society. It's a rather bad joke that isn't supported by anything you even wrote. Unless you want to explain my previous points of how better understanding our social structure is dangerous or undermining society itself.

The US isn't losing global influence because students study humanities, it's losing global influence because the people in power are isolating the US from global trade deals, global treaties and alienating our allies to the point where they are looking to other superpowers for assistance and guidance in situations where the US was the one to lead the way.

If you're overly concerned with education funding, you could most likely start with tax policy both locally and federally and ask why we are slashing corporate taxes and giving handouts to the wealthy time and time again.

Of course, I'm in a STEM field, yet for electives I've decided to take courses like gender studies because it's a field that interests me. Am I somehow devaluing my own education? Is my better understanding of historical context of shifting gender rolls undermining society?

 

[EviLore]

You're both raising valid points. No need to get ad hominem.

 

[Papa]

If the shoe fits, wear it.

You called for a public funding to be cut from any programs you deem don't fit the public interest. You know how authoritarian that is to be the one who declares what's in the public interest, especially when the subject is the social sciences behind the understanding of gender and all the connected societal issues that stem from things like our understandings of sexuality and gender identity?

Your claims that somehow gender studies are "unscientific" lack any real world examples and is a broad stroke that deems anything humanitarian in study is useless (well, you deem it dangerous). How do you even go about regulating education? What is exactly biased about having studies of gender understanding and societal impacts for such concepts, especially in a rapidly changing society where gender norms and gender roles are rapidly changing due to the shifting workplace and family structures. Defunding is an extremely common and well known tactic by political opponents to end programs they deem to be unsavory. So trying to play the middle ground by advocating for defunding doesn't pass the smell test.

An example of this in practice is the attempts to defund the ACA, which would make it ineffective in it's purpose, which those who oppose (and caused the defunding) could use as proof that the program isn't working and should be repealed. It's a vicious cycle of action and logic to reach a predetermined goal.

Don't think I'm going to be taking education reforms from you seriously when you think gender studies and humanities is the prime example of the downfall of western society. It's a rather bad joke that isn't supported by anything you even wrote. Unless you want to explain my previous points of how better understanding our social structure is dangerous or undermining society itself.

The US isn't losing global influence because students study humanities, it's losing global influence because the people in power are isolating the US from global trade deals, global treaties and alienating our allies to the point where they are looking to other superpowers for assistance and guidance in situations where the US was the one to lead the way.

If you're overly concerned with education funding, you could most likely start with tax policy both locally and federally and ask why we are slashing corporate taxes and giving handouts to the wealthy time and time again.

Of course, I'm in a STEM field, yet for electives I've decided to take courses like gender studies because it's a field that interests me. Am I somehow devaluing my own education? Is my better understanding of historical context of shifting gender rolls undermining society?

If you’re just going to label me as your personal bogeyman, I’m not going to believe that you’ve read and considered what I actually said. The fact that you gave such a lengthy response within 5 minutes of my post indicates to me that you had a pre-conceived notion of what I was saying and immediately went into attack mode. Your points are such extreme extrapolations of what I was saying that I am getting shades of the Neogaf that I withdrew from 3 years ago and I do not wish to participate in that any further.

 

[Dr.Parity]

If you’re just going to label me as your personal bogeyman, I’m not going to believe that you’ve read and considered what I actually said. The fact that you gave such a lengthy response within 5 minutes of indicates to me that you had a pre-conceived notion of what I was saying and immediately went into attack mode. Your points are such extreme extrapolations of what I was saying that I am getting shades of the Neogaf that I withdrew from 3 years ago and I do not wish to participate in that any further.

You said that gender studies and by extension general humanities "do not add value to society; in fact, they actively seek to undermine it." You mentioned defunding gender studies/humanities, and I gave you a real world definition of what that does and the clear goals of why politicians seek such a method defunding.

I'm not labeling you as my personal bogeyman, you're just some dude on a forum. I pointed out the flaws in your attack on non-STEM studies and the absurd claim that gender/humanities studies are undermining society, which is the crux of your argument, which you haven't defended or given an actual real world example of how it's intersecting with the fact Russia made an underwater nuclear drone.

So, in the interest of time and going back to the original topic at hand, why is gender studies a threat to western society? Why are you labeling societal studies as an existential threat to America's global influence when I gave current examples of US policies which are rapidly causing the decline of US influence both with our allies and neutral parties? What did I exactly wildly extrapolate? You're getting shades of old GAF because I'm holding your feet to the fire and forcing you to defend what you said, and not deflect with other topics. It's a bit humoring to me that those who constantly claim they withdrew from GAF years ago due to being criticized for "voicing their opinions" are never the ones who want to properly defend them, and simply withdraw from such tough criticism.

 

[Papa]

You said that gender studies and by extension general humanities "do not add value to society; in fact, they actively seek to undermine it." You mentioned defunding gender studies/humanities, and I gave you a real world definition of what that does and the clear goals of why politicians seek such a method defunding.

I'm not labeling you as my personal bogeyman, you're just some dude on a forum. I pointed out the flaws in your attack on non-STEM studies and the absurd claim that gender/humanities studies are undermining society, which is the crux of your argument, which you haven't defended or given an actual real world example of how it's intersecting with the fact Russia made an underwater nuclear drone.

So, in the interest of time and going back to the original topic at hand, why is gender studies a threat to western society? Why are you labeling societal studies as an existential threat to America's global influence when I gave current examples of US policies which are rapidly causing the decline of US influence both with our allies and neutral parties? What did I exactly wildly extrapolate? You're getting shades of old GAF because I'm holding your feet to the fire and forcing you to defend what you said, and not deflect with other topics. It's a bit humoring to me that those who constantly claim they withdrew from GAF years ago due to being criticized for "voicing their opinions" are never the ones who want to properly defend them, and simply withdraw from such tough criticism.

If you would stop Cathy Newmaning me, I would be willing to engage.

 

[Dr.Parity]

If you would stop Cathy Newmaning me, I would be willing to engage.

Not really interested in Dilbert stuff, I already laid and narrowed the scope of questions that dig into the original topic at hand. Like you said, your choice if you want to participate or not. So for the sake of brevity, what exactly are the concrete examples of the dangers to society that gender studies/humanitarian studies are producing?

 

[ar0s]

We truly are living in 1984 now.
Who's the badguys today? AlQueda/ISIS/ISIL? North Korea? China? Russia? Syria? Iran? All of them?

USA. Even all your "allies" citizens know this.

 

[ar0s]

The irony of people who constantly complain to the left about free speech (even though their speech is never in danger) directly advocating for the removal of dissenting opinions on topics they don't think is important is... well, it's not shocking considering it's a common goal for the alt right in the first place.

It's not like Russia is a totalitarian hell-scape where minorities and anyone who doesn't fit the script is targeted, or you know, China where people literally disappear.

Russia has one of the largest immigration levels in the world. Almost everything you have said makes you look fairly ignorant and almost every post is so full of logical fallacies I believe you are trolling.

 

[Dr.Parity]

Russia has one of the largest immigration levels in the world. Almost everything you have said makes you look fairly ignorant and almost every post is so full of logical fallacies I believe you are trolling.

The Russian government is waging a campaign to systematically remove all non-Russian Orthodox religions from the country one by one, and they’ve targeted Hinduism next.

LGBT rights in Russia (Just some quick excerpts)

Homosexuality redeclared as a mental illness in 2013

Homosexual couples are bared from adoption

Public opinion in Russia tends to be among the most hostile toward homosexuality in the world

Unlike in many western nations, LGBT persons in Russia are not protected by specific legal protections.

Federal laws passed on 29 June 2013 ban the distribution of "propaganda" to minors which promotes "non-traditional sexual relationships". Critics contend the law makes illegal holding any sort of public demonstration in favour of gay rights, speak in defence of LGBT rights, and distribute material related to LGBT culture, or to state that same-sex relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.

 

[Atrus]

This was already known for a while as hypersonic planes and missiles were the next step on the battlefield. Now all the US has to do is create an AI global defense network to connect all its future missile and laser systems together for better coordination in order to protect the skies over the US. AI would react faster and more efficiently without the human component taking away precious seconds to counter Russian missiles and a robust self-protection mechanism would ensure prioritizing itself so as to be able to protect everyone else in the event of nuclear war.