S.F. taxi industry in turmoil, might collapse in months, due to Uber/Lyft pressure

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Loofy said:
I cant see uber being allowed/legal in canada.. Unless the government wants to refund all the cab drivers their $200k taxi licenses.
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It's available in Toronto avoiding to their website. Haven't tried it in TO myself but I just discovered on a recent trip to California.
 
gcubed said:
good, i haven't seen a more worthless group then the taxi's around SF. Not like the industry will collapse, more like the traditional corrupt as shit asshats will lose their businesses and uber/lyft will see a large influx in drivers.

I'll give uber credit, they have finally started to come around to becoming a real part of the market instead of fighting the sane regulation they used to
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They have?

I just don't really like the Uber CEO and his hatred of regulation (plus his scummy behavior to other services, like clogging their systems with bogus calls they cancel so legit costumers have to wait) that the taxi industry needs (and Uber is a taxi service) it should somewhat be a 'public service'. Another thing is I hate their surge pricing and charging me a safety fee (just hide it instead of trying to make a political statement). I don't want to pay more if its raining. I don't care about supply and demand.

Is lyft or sidecar any better?

That being said I did use uber once without the surge pricing and it wasn't bad.
 
titiklabingapat said:
Uber X is cheaper.

uber has different levels of service. The Uber black car, which is what started the whole thing and typically alot mor eexpensive than regular cab but nicer. Then Uber SUV, which is pricer than the black car, then there is uber X, which is a lyft copy cat. Lyft is the one that started pricing out the taxi cab companies as they are typically 20 percent cheaper, and tip is already included in the price. In cities where Uber x and lyft are intesnely competing, the price can be as much as 50% cheaper than a cab, like in LA for example.
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That's the great thing about competition. Uber and Lyft drive down each other's prices to benefit the consumer.

The conventional Taxi service doesn't have that...Uber may reduce its prices, but NYC Taxi cab prices are just going to keep going up.

Uber X is not ubiquitously cheaper than regular taxi services across the country. It may be in some locations, but in other locations like NYC it's only a couple more dollars than a conventional taxi:

Aquamarine said:
For the cheapest (Uber X):

$6 base fare
And beyond that, it's $0.75 per minute (under 11 mph) or $3 per mile (above 11 mph).
The minimum fare is $12.


So for example:

Columbus Circle to Grand Central Station:

Initial Fare: $6.00
Add. Metered Fare: $7.09
Estimated Taxi Fare: $13.09


Compare to NYC taxi cabs:

$2.50 base fare
$0.50 per minute (under 6 mph) or $0.50 per 1/5 mile (above 6 mph)
+ 20% to 25% tips
+ Surcharges


For example:

Columbus Circle to Grand Central Station:

Initial Fare: $2.50
Add. Metered Fare: $5.46
NY State Tax Surcharge: $0.50
Tip (20%): $1.69
Estimated Taxi Fare: $10.15
*Additional charges may apply.




Here is another example. This time, we're going from Harlem 125th St. Metro North Station to Grand Central Terminal.


Uber X fares:

Initial Fare: $6.00
Add. Metered Fare: $18.38
Estimated Taxi Fare: $24.38


Conventional taxi fares:

Initial Fares: $2.50
Add. Metered Fare: $14.93
NY State Tax Surcharge: $0.50
Tip (20%): $3.59
Estimated Taxi Fare: $21.52
*Additional charges may apply.

So really, Uber X is only slightly more expensive than what you would pay with a taxi in NYC...but it's much more convenient.
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Even in the locations where it's more expensive, I still think the massive benefits from using Uber far outweigh the couple of extra dollars you have to pay from using it. Uber really is great value.
 
One negative thing I can say about uber and lyft is thier surge and Prime pricing. Essentially, if its a high demand night (Friday and Saturdays, especially if its raining and snowing), pricing can be double, triple, even quadruple with Uber x. Lyft caps them at double though, which I like.
 
NullPointer said:
That was my initial experience too, but it was a while ago. The drivers were fucking clueless, and flaky.
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Sounds like you're describing the typical SF taxi driver. ;)

One other advantage of Uber (for when you really need to get somewhere) is the congestion pricing. It puts a multiplier on the base fare during times of high demand (such as commute time at the train station) and updates every few minutes.

If you need a car "right now" (business meeting, date, ride to airport, etc.) you pay a little more, but a car is always available. If you don't want to pay more, you just wait until the demand drops down.

It's a lot better than taxi companies which are luck of the draw when you call.
 
Cat Party said:
With Uber and similar services, who pays when their drivers hurt or kill people?
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This is a good question.

When you sign up to be an Uber Driver, they state that one of their requirements is that you be "[a]t least 23 years old, with a personal license and personal auto insurance."

I can only imagine how pleased the insurance company will be to be able to deny coverage of a claim because the driver's policy specifically exempted commercial activity such as ferrying people around. I would wager that Uber drivers (or "Partners") are contract employees at best, so Uber would attempt to avoid liability for the accident that way. Of course you can always sue Uber for their own negligence (i.e., in contracting the driver in the first place), but that's much, much messier than being able to hold them directly responsible for the driver's negligence.
 
Taxis just seem scummy in SF. They'll "forget" to turn on the meter, drive the wrong way, then turn it on so you pay more. Claim the creditcard interface doesn't work when it does, etc. Glad Lyft and Uber exist, they're so much better.
 
Cat Party said:
With Uber and similar services, who pays when their drivers hurt or kill people? Is there any remedy if one of their drivers discriminates against a fare?
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They have and Uber tried to get out of paying for it. They're now charging customers for covering it. It reminds me of those "obamacare fees"

http://consumerist.com/2014/04/18/uber-to-tack-on-1-safe-rides-fee/

Ken Masters said:
What's the cheapest cab option in DC?
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Probably uber until the surge pricing hits then probably regular cabs.
 
mre said:
This is a good question.

When you sign up to be an Uber Driver, they state that one of their requirements is that you be "[a]t least 23 years old, with a personal license and personal auto insurance."

I can only imagine how pleased the insurance company will be to be able to deny coverage of a claim because the driver's policy specifically exempted commercial activity such as ferrying people around. I would wager that Uber drivers (or "Partners") are contract employees at best, so Uber would attempt to avoid liability for the accident that way. Of course you can always sue Uber for their own negligence (i.e., in contracting the driver in the first place), but that's much, much messier than being able to hold them directly responsible for the driver's negligence.
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You have to have commercial insurance as a pizza delivery driver too. No pizza delivery drivers have that insurance.
 
mre said:
This is a good question.

When you sign up to be an Uber Driver, they state that one of their requirements is that you be "[a]t least 23 years old, with a personal license and personal auto insurance."

I can only imagine how pleased the insurance company will be to be able to deny coverage of a claim because the driver's policy specifically exempted commercial activity such as ferrying people around. I would wager that Uber drivers (or "Partners") are contract employees at best, so Uber would attempt to avoid liability for the accident that way. Of course you can always sue Uber for their own negligence (i.e., in contracting the driver in the first place), but that's much, much messier than being able to hold them directly responsible for the driver's negligence.
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The same is true of cab drivers in SF. They are not employed by the taxi companies they drive for. They are independent contractors who simply lease a car from the taxi company.

If you get hit by a SF cab, they'll tell you to go after the driver and deny all responsibility since the driver isn't an employee.
 
Syriel said:
The same is true of cab drivers in SF. They are not employed by the taxi companies they drive for. They are independent contractors who simply lease a car from the taxi company.

If you get hit by a SF cab, they'll tell you to go after the driver and deny all responsibility since the driver isn't an employee.
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That driver will have a proper insurance policy, though. At least I'd hope so.
 
Syriel said:
Sounds like you're describing the typical SF taxi driver. ;)
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Nah. Been using dispatch for the past 16 years. I actually cab to work in the morning and walk or take the bus home.

I know the traditional cabbies and I get along great with most of them. The Uber drivers didn't know the streets, at all, and seriously, the worst is to have a driver take your request only to pick somebody else up a block away and put you back at square one. It was unreliable, and for a morning commute there is nothing worse.

But that was a while ago - basically when their app first hit, so I'd be willing to see what if anything has changed.

These apps have certainly changed the game for the better. There is no going back.
 
Blader said:
I've always found Uber way cheaper than regular cabs in Boston. Hailo can be pretty expensive, though.
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It depends on your location. I live in San Diego and just went on a trip to New York and Boston. Lyft doesn't exist in New York. Uber app showed that requesting a driver was a minimum $12 charge. $0.75 per minute, and $3 a mile. Cab was cheaper.

In Boston, Lyft was there and I was able to get a ride for 3.6 miles for $8 total. Didn't try Uber there.

So basically it varies from city to city. I'm a Lyft and Uber driver in San Diego and with the larger landmass and less centralized cityscape, taxis don't have the ease of use of the Lyft and Uber apps. You can see where the nearest cars are. On Lyft you input your destination address and the driver is able to link the app to Apple maps, Google maps, or Waze. When a ride is requested you click the nav link and the passenger's location is setup to guide you there. Then when you swipe to start the fare, their destination address pops up and you can click again to have your chosen nav app guide you.

No cash, no fuss, no filthy cars or drivers who can't understand you. If there are, you give a shitty review of the driver. Shitty reviewed drivers (below 4.8 out of 5 average) eventually get kicked out of the driver clan.
 
I work in the cab industry currently, and I have no problem with the idea of Uber or Lyft.

I would just like them to follow the same rules cab companies have to for their drivers.

Criminal background check.
Licensed by the city (get a hack license and a chauffeurs license).
Have commercial insurance for your car.

In the college town that I work in the only cost of entry to being a cab driver is a meter (which uber wouldn't need since they calculate based on GPS) and a $25 hack license.

The biggest thing is the lack of commercial insurance, thats the part that bugs me.

Hell in Michigan, you can get licensed as a Limo driver and not even have to get a local cab license, but you need to have commercial insurance and a chauffeurs license.

I've never understood why certain states require the purchase of Taxi medallions. That is some corrupt BS.
 
Yaboosh said:
You have to have commercial insurance as a pizza delivery driver too. No pizza delivery drivers have that insurance.
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I know that all too well, as a former pizza delivery driver in college. In retrospect, it's negligent of the employers not to require that their drivers maintain professional/commercial insurance.
 
mre said:
I know that all too well, as a former pizza delivery driver in college. In retrospect, it's negligent of the employers not to require that their drivers maintain professional/commercial insurance.
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Insurance companies are the problem. They will refuse to insure a car to be both a commercial and private vehicle. That means as a pizza driver or Uber driver, you would need to own a SECOND car that you never drive except for commercial purposes. It would pretty much eliminate the pizza delivery industry.
 
Glad to hear this is happening. The taxi industry across all major US cities deserves all of this and more for their horrible business practices.

While Uber isn't perfect (their ultra libertarian approach can be annoying at times) I believe their business model still ends up providing a better/safer service than traditional cab companies. They still need to be regulated though (with sensible regulations and not ones designed to kill competition)

The ability to rate drivers directly (which Uber takes very seriously. If a driver gets too many bad ratings he's fired) forces them to not act like assholes.

IMO regardless of whether Uber is cheaper or not, the customer experience is orders of magnitude better than even the best yellow cab experience I've ever had.
 
BigDug13 said:
Insurance companies are the problem. They will refuse to insure a car to be both a commercial and private vehicle. That means as a pizza driver or Uber driver, you would need to own a SECOND car that you never drive except for commercial purposes. It would pretty much eliminate the pizza delivery industry.
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This assumes there isn't fleet based insurance used by companies, even that covers personal vehicles. When I drive on company time, I am covered by my companies insurance whether I am in my vehicle, a corporate car, or a rental. Some of our operations people are in their cars just as much as pizza delivery drivers.

Edit. What pizza companies are doing is scummy. I assume the only way they get away with this is that they designate their drivers as independent contractors?
 
They are doing this in DC. So far people here prefers Uber than regular Taxis. So the Taxi union is strong arming the DC council to put Uber in red tape so they can be on equal footing. So far there hasn't been any final say. But Taxi union here is saying it's not fair since they aren't put under the same scrutiny as them.

I say, the market is taking care of itself.
 
dionysus said:
This assumes there isn't fleet based insurance used by companies, even that covers personal vehicles. When I drive on company time, I am covered by my companies insurance whether I am in my vehicle, a corporate car, or a rental.
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Is that really something that a small pizza business can afford? Again, only the large corporations win and Dominos and Pizza Hut become the only pizza delivery companies.
 
Here we have a taxi service called Taxi Diamonds, and this is in Montreal. They have an iphone app; you launch it, type in where you wanna go, you get an estimate, and when you launch; the call center sends all the data to the nearest cab, and you can see the cab coming your way on the map like in Grand Theft Auto. The taxi cab icon even starts flashing when they have arrived at your place.

You get in, and the guy already knows where you wanna go.

It's amazing and I think I had to wait maybe 2 minutes max every time I used them.
 
BigDug13 said:
Is that really something that a small pizza business can afford? Again, only the large corporations win and Dominos and Pizza Hut become the only pizza delivery companies.
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That is a separate question. Philosophically, if a requirement doesn't pass the cost/benefit criteria for a small company I don't think it should apply to large companies just cause they can afford it and vice versa.

Also, I believe Dominos is mostly franchises. Not sure about pizza hut but I would bet it is the same. So Dominos is a small business, just a franchisee of a major brand.
 
I am so unhip.. I had no idea what Uber was but now that I see they are in Minneapolis (I also hope St Paul) I will be using them anytime I need a "Cab" Ride.

Once again thank you Gaf for dishing out the info.
 
NullPointer said:
I know the traditional cabbies and I get along great with most of them. The Uber drivers didn't know the streets, at all, and seriously, the worst is to have a driver take your request only to pick somebody else up a block away and put you back at square one. It was unreliable, and for a morning commute there is nothing worse.
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I suppose if you're using a "regular" cabbie and always getting the same driver you'll have a good experience, but again, what you're describing is the common experience that the average SF resident has with the taxi companies in the City.

It's laughable to get into a Yellow Cab, ask to be taken to Belden Alley in the Financial District (as an example) and have the driver pull over and yank out a map.

As for having drivers pick up someone else along the way, that's the only way to explain the sheer number of cab no shows in the City when you call.

If cab drivers do that, there is no repercussion. If an Uber driver does that, they're going to get poor ratings and get kicked off the service. Uber doesn't even show drivers your destination address when they confirm that they are picking you up, so that drivers can't ignore "unpopular" destinations.

shuri said:
Here we have a taxi service called Taxi Diamonds, and this is in Montreal. They have an iphone app; you launch it, type in where you wanna go, you get an estimate, and when you launch; the call center sends all the data to the nearest cab, and you can see the cab coming your way on the map like in Grand Theft Auto. The taxi cab icon even starts flashing when they have arrived at your place.

You get in, and the guy already knows where you wanna go.

It's amazing and I think I had to wait maybe 2 minutes max every time I used them.
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If you want an experience like that in SF, you need to use Uber. The taxi companies won't guarantee that a cab is on its way to you.

andycapps said:
Question as someone that hasn't taken Uber yet, but is interested in doing so. With Uber, you're not ridesharing, are you?
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Nope. But if you're a group of friends, you can all opt to split the fare in the app.

So, say a group takes Uber Black or Uber SUV, you just opt to split and when you get dropped off the app automatically charges you all an equal share of the fare.
 
London cab drivers are getting upset about this too.

It's amazing how right wing and free market capitalist so many of them are, apart of course with their own highly regulated and controlled area.
 
Fuck these cab drivers. I use Taxi Magic and am told I can use Taxi Magic to pay with my credit card and then the dispatch takes forever to send someone and that person contradicts the app by telling me he won't accept payment through the app I used to get him to pick me up.

No thanks, I'll take Uber.
 
Good. I'm sick of asshole cab drivers. Every single one has a broken credit card reader. Yeah right you prick - you're taking credit or your're not getting paid.
 
Uber was FANTASTIC during GDC. I'm sorry, cab industry, but they definitely have you beat on the swank/comfort/awesome factor, and a tech guy like me just absolutely adored the ease of use of Uber's app.


edit: And I think Uber gets around the taxi-license law by people negotiating 'privately' prior to getting into the cab with the other party. This way they're not taking any cash in the car, and not necessarily acting as a Taxi.
It's like offering your friend gas money for driving you cross town, it's not metered.
 
Vilam said:
Good. I'm sick of asshole cab drivers. Every single one has a broken credit card reader. Yeah right you prick - you're taking credit or your're not getting paid.
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That's the one great thing about conventional NYC cabs....they're required to have a working credit card / debit card payment system at all times.

I can't imagine living in a place without any electronic payment system, especially since I pretty much never carry around cash with me.
 
This has been going on for years. The big problem prior to Lyft & Uber were unlicensed taxis taking away from all the licensed ones. This was like in 2009 or so, but hwen Uber came around people said fuck taxis. TBH I'm glad this is happening, most of the taxis in SF are super rude and shady, they always say they accept card but then they blatantly say no to card and want cash only. Good riddance!
 
DrEvil said:
edit: And I think Uber gets around the taxi-license law by people negotiating 'privately' prior to getting into the cab with the other party. This way they're not taking any cash in the car, and not necessarily acting as a Taxi.
It's like offering your friend gas money for driving you cross town, it's not metered.
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Of course it's metered. It's just the meter in an Uber car is the driver's phone, which is tracking the distance and time driven by GPS.
 
EviLore said:
Lyft just launched here this weekend, actually. The city is trying to fight it by impounding Lyft vehicles since they're identifiable by the pink mustache. Lyft is paying the legal fees for the drivers and ignoring that they're operating illegally, because demand is so high and the laws are archaic.
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Ohhhh, is THAT was those are?

I'm in Denver and I just started seeing the big, pink mustaches on cars and didn't get what it was. Saw on for the first time about 2 weeks ago.
 
In Seattle, the taxi drivers are trying to get the City to drop regulations on Uber/Lyft (make them licensed, cap there numbers). It's been interesting to watch.
 
Great news. Don't want em and don't need em. Lyft from my place to the ferry building is 15 bucks no tip. Same distance by taxi is 30 bucks plus a tip they'll stink eye out of you. Fuck the cab service in this city.
 
Uber's saved my skin time and time again. After Hurricane Sandy, NYC cab drivers often broke the law and refused me service because they didn't want to travel to Jersey City, NJ - there was no subway service to and from my house due to subway flooding for 4 months, and the ferry stopped running at 8 p.m.

After fighting with driver after driver and taking time off my life, I discovered Uber, and I've used them every since. Whenever NYC cabs (and for the most part, NYC cabs are good) can't get me somewhere, Uber always does.
 
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