This lunacy is not just specific to Saudi Arabia.
(From 2013)
That lunacy seems to be present among many African Christian, Hindu and Buddhist states, along with numerous Muslim states.
Is that what you're alluding to?
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Saudi Arabia: Push for gays to be executed because social media is making too many'
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That lunacy seems to be present among many African Christian, Hindu and Buddhist states, along with numerous Muslim states.
Is that what you're alluding to?
Sub-Saharan Africa is not majority Muslim though.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Too powerful to be brought to justice. Also proud sponsor of Hillary Clinton, which begs the question if America is going to take a hardliner stance on the opressive regime which funds the likes of ISIS.
Androidsleeps
Member
That map depressed me.
PeskyToaster
Member
It used to be the opposite where the east was exotic, decadent, and feminine.
astroturfing
Member
and Cuba is too evil to be America's ally, hahahah.
As a person from the Middle East, I can confidently tell you that half the people under the age of 30 are at least bisexual, and everyone in that age bracket knows that too.
The only people unaware of that are religious people, old people, and the authorities. So good luck to Saudi Arabia in trying to suppress the freedom of the majority of the youth, because the youth have gotten extremely good at hiding their sex life, they're delusional if they think anybody under the age of 30 doesn't have sex, straight or gay.
Can't wait 'till all the old people die so we can live in peace (as peaceful as the ME can get at least).
The only people unaware of that are religious people, old people, and the authorities. So good luck to Saudi Arabia in trying to suppress the freedom of the majority of the youth, because the youth have gotten extremely good at hiding their sex life, they're delusional if they think anybody under the age of 30 doesn't have sex, straight or gay.
Can't wait 'till all the old people die so we can live in peace (as peaceful as the ME can get at least).
boiled goose
good with gravy
But iran and cuba shouldn't have diplomatic relationships with the usA.
As it should, be glad to be living in the enlightened west. Religious countries seem to be the common denominator, the only caveat being that historically, even the communist states were against homosexuality. Overall, it stems from conservative values as a whole it seems- in Canada there is still a large majority of religious people, yet we are very socially liberal as well. And of course, religion plays a huge rule in forming this conservative viewpoint. I don't think raining hell on these countries and forcing them to atheism would solve the issue at all, the social stigma for homosexuality would remain.
Kenshin001
Member
Only Muslim countries or states that are governed according to Islamic law have the death penalty for homosexuality though.
Yemen
Iran
Mauritania
Northern (Muslim) Nigeria
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Somalia
Sudan
Islamic State
Two of those countries are the most influential in the Islamic world.
If you want to allude to the fact that many religious leaders around the world are unified in theocratic homophobia, then that's what I wanted to allude to as well. As I wrote in some other post here, I also have no interest in excluding Christianity. From a doctrinal point of view, the only qualitative difference that Christianity has is that it's scriptures are such an inconsistent patchwork of contradictory and randomly assembled texts, that it's easier to throw the bigotry inherent in them under the rug with some exegetic mind gymnastics. But that's certainly not an accomplishment or a compliment.
I am less well versed with Hinduism and Buddhism, but as far as I know there are no—or at least no clear—doctrinal reasons in them that promote anti-gay bigotry.
spazchicken
Member
I believe that was everything... I've heard everything now.
BobbyRobby
Member
Half? That seems like a lot. I wonder if having it so taboo makes it more appealing.
This lunacy is not just specific to Saudi Arabia.
(From 2013)
Let's get a more current map. Same rules.
One of the biggest things I'm seeing here is that a lot of the anti-gay nations used to be British colonies. Also, some good news from the timespan of our maps. Mozambique decriminalized same sex activities and have anti-discrimination laws in employment, good start, but much is needed to be done.
makingmusic476
Member
Let's get a more current map. Same rules.
One of the biggest things I'm seeing here is that a lot of the anti-gay nations used to be British colonies. Also, some good news from the timespan of our maps. Mozambique decriminalized same sex activities and have anti-discrimination laws in employment, good start, but much is needed to be done.
Like the US, Canada, Australia, and South Africa?
A lot of the world used to be British colonies.
The biggest difference with the US, Canada, Australia, S. Africa, NZ, and a few others, is that the native populations of those countries were decimated or disenfranchised and the hierarchies replaced by Europeans.
However, there is some correlation with colonial laws and modern anti-homosexual laws in countries touched by European colonialism where Europeans did not become the majority population.
Of course, these laws aren't only relevant to those parts of the world of course.
Am I understanding some of you correctly here? You are blaming anti-gay bigotry in Africa, the Middle East and India primarily on Western imperialism, and not, for instance, on the fact that Islam's and Christianity's doctrinal sources—which, unless I am mistaken here, predate colonialism by many centuries...—unanimously condemn homosexuality and prescribe the death penalty for it?
Monocle
Member
Pretty gross. Some people tie themselves in knots to avoid confronting the ugly nature of religion.
Money > everything else
Kenshin001
Member
It's kind of interesting that when the Europeans drafted a statement calling for decriminalization of homosexuality it was supported by half the UN but the Arabs put forward a counter statement opposing it. That statement was read out by Syria, which was supposed to be a secular, tolerant majority Muslim country.
It is anecdotal evidence of course. Maybe bi-curious is more accurate, since most of them end up with a person in the opposite sex anyway.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Sadly I think it's true that several countries never even thought to have laws against homosexuality until they came under British administration and law. People there might even traditionally think of homosexuality as a problem introduced by the British. Some deny that it was even possible for it to have existed before the corrupt British brought it to their country.
I think it may be traditional in parts of Africa just to lynch gay people without trial but who knows how far that sort of thing goes back if there isn't documented evidence. If you are burned to death without trial it hardly matters what the law says if there isn't any. Possibly the tradition of violence against non conformists only goes back to the rise of Abrahamic religions in Africa.
If you really want an answer its tumblr. Not even lying just look up your favorite movie or tv show on tumblr. Guaranteed gay shipping.
I think your map is a bit out of date.This lunacy is not just specific to Saudi Arabia.
(From 2013)
Spring-Loaded
Member
Let's get a more current map. Same rules.
One of the biggest things I'm seeing here is that a lot of the anti-gay nations used to be British colonies. Also, some good news from the timespan of our maps. Mozambique decriminalized same sex activities and have anti-discrimination laws in employment, good start, but much is needed to be done.
Yeah, that other map is from a few years ago. Though it's kind of crazy to think that 2013 is old for this kind of thing.
And All maps should indicate the situation in Russia, even if there were no laws against same-sex marriage there, there's certainly a bias against it.
The remnants of the Arabian Empire, sure, but let's not blind ourselves from the fact Western Imperialism brought Christianity to a lot of these regions and force it among the natives. I'm pretty sure most of these areas in sub-saharan Africa and east Asia were tribal and never heard of Jesus or Muhammed until the colonies expanded. Hell, comparing the current maps to those that map the British Empire is pretty telling. Sure places like the U.S., New Zealand are the exception, but these places had their natives decimated and replaced by people of the British Empire.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Stop fucking supporting this fundamentalist joke of a nation, USA. Their crimes against human rights are unending, they support and enable terrorist groups, and the US considers them an ally. Fucking disgraceful.
Maleficence
Member
Regressive liberalism at it's worst.
Trying to blame the current liberal west for the actions of a conservative past.
And in doing so take responsibility away from the real problem: conservative attitudes and religion.
I have no respect for people who follow the extreme bigoted beliefs of their religion, I want to make that clear. I've been at the receiving end of their bigotry since I was a teenager. I'm extremely critical against religion as a whole, and I also think many of them need heavy reform to modernize in the current climate, and even going as far as to saying they shouldn't exist at all. If it seems like I'm blaming current, repeat, current western politics and states for the issues of the 3rd world nations, I'm sorry, but that's not what I am trying to do. I am, however, making an observation and I believe there is a correlation about the former British Empire and these nations.
The fact is, I said it earlier, that the Western Imperialism, and the formerly massive British Empire where the ones who brought and forced Christianity into these regions and left them in the dust around the 1900s, these regions were already poor and uneducated and continued to be left as such, the religion is what they mostly knew, which in turn shaped their beliefs and laws. Let me make it clear, the main culprit to blame here is orthodox religion and how much their society and culture is shaped by said religion. Education, a better economy, and removal of authoritarian regimes is the only way, in my eyes, to fix it.
Maleficence
Member
I think we're in agreement then.
However I think bringing up British colonialism is a bit pointless at this point. Yes it is responsible partially for the spread of the Christian religion to certain parts of the world but the current issue is the religion and conservative values there now. Blaming colonialism at this stage is pointless, it doesn't change anything.
We need to focus on the things that can be changed not what cannot be changed. I just think it's kinda pointless bringing up colonialism when there are more important things to bring up.
This thread is literally about a 21st century Islamic nation founded on tribalism and oil and is an example of circumstances almost completely detached from British colonialism by chronology, politics, law and religion. There may be a freshman essay to write about Rhodes and modern Zimbabwe, but it has almost nothing to do with SA further sinking into a mire of extremism.
It's a form of ruthlessly inaccurate temporal whataboutism.
I think this is a pretty reductionist view.
China, which is officially atheist and actively represses the spread of Christianity, has no LGBT rights to speak of. Japanese attitudes are likewise pretty bigoted.
Good luck trying to get people to acknowledge this tho, people tend to ignore facts that don't fall into their narrative.
That's what I was curious about - where does the anti LGBT sentiment come from in countries like China and Japan? Cultural attitudes from old, non-Christin religions, or somewhere else entirely?
There aren't in Theravada Buddhism as far as I'm aware. Which is why the fact that my country (Sri Lanka) being on that map depresses me. Fking politics.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I don't think it explains the whole picture, but you just reminded me of an article I came across a while ago:
http://www.gay-art-history.org/gay-...male-love/japan-samurai-homosexual-shudo.html
In the first episode of the documentary series Gaycation, Ellen Paige and her friend go to to Japan to try to answer that kind of question. However, they ultimately didn't find a real good answer other than the society was pretty ignorant/uninterested in LGBT issues. Moreover, activists haven't really pushed for much change until recently.
Episode 1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NnrAISE6x08
It's a minority, it isn't that puzzling. Too many of you have a hard on for rage against religion and/or western involvement.
Minorities have been and are hated on without either. Do you think we were living in a tolerance Utopia before the western world and religion?
Absolutely fascinating, thanks for posting. So it was the influence of Christian morality on Japanese culture that seeded intolerance for homosexual and homoerotic traditions that were previously a way of life - though as you said, I'm sure that's not the whole story.
Read the linked article about Japan, posted above.
That doesn't answer my question but I'll assume you are going for the affirmative. So where did the anti gay stuff in religion come from when it was being created? From the man above as religion believes?
There's no need for the attitude. The article, ironically, does suggest homosexuality in Japan only became an issue after being influenced by western Christians.
But read the thread, your question is mine. If not religion, where did homophobia come from?
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