Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Sega is basically the Yakuza company for me, at this point. But considering that I really like Yakuza, I'm kind of okay with that. They're never gonna be Dreamcast-era Sega again.
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Sega is becoming its weird and wonderful self again
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
cireza
Member
I don't remember the exact thing, but Sega has been among the best 3 third party developers in Metacritic for several years in a row. I will try to find the exact source...
https://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2018-releases -> Second Place
https://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2017-releases -> Third Place
https://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2016-releases -> Second Place of Mid-Sized publishers (less games this year)
https://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2015-releases -> First Place
All these years are the ones after the restructuring. If you go back further in the past, then we start to see the poor rankings.
Metacritic's comment for the latest year :
Sega landed in our top 3 for the third time in four years (with the exception coming in a year when Sega failed to release enough games to qualify for our "major" publishers group). That's especially impressive given that Sega released more distinct titles than all but one other publisher in 2018. Note that all of Sega's averages and totals include games published by Atlus, a recently acquired Sega subsidiary that (as of 2018) now shares top-level management with the parent company.
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lachesis
Member
Being a long time Sega fan since 80’s, it’s wonderful to see they are coming back to form - although it’s still a far cry from their glory days imho. Still very excited on their future games - but not too keen of outsourcing of their IPs...
Either way though, knowing Sega and a being a Sega fan over 30 years - they will f- up sooner or later. If they don’t and ride their way to the top like Nintendo does... now that’s not the Sega that I know and love!
Either way though, knowing Sega and a being a Sega fan over 30 years - they will f- up sooner or later. If they don’t and ride their way to the top like Nintendo does... now that’s not the Sega that I know and love!
Stefan.North
Member
Not quite there but gooing in a good direction.
New Space Harrier would be cool.
New Space Harrier would be cool.
DW74
Member
I suspected this would the first, or nearly first, comment.
BlackTron
Gold Member
I totally agree.
Sonic Team has shown they cannot do the job. Sonic needs a team with more respect and enthusiasm for the IP, as well as talent.
I remember when Sonic Team could do no wrong for me when Sonic Adventure and Phantasy Star Online were my favorite games, oh how they've fallen!
Of course without Yuji Naka it would never quite be the same, but that doesn't mean you have to settle for blatant incompetence...
SlashBringingHasher
Banned
meh. they are meh, thats all am gonna say. they were better last gen they took some risk.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Sega has NEVER stopped being weird. They don't do much hands ON stuff anymore but all the IP's they own are the most unique.
Around 12 or so Sega games have been review bombed. (by users) So basically ALL the SMT and Persona games have been review bombed or were last year and Metacuck never fixed their shit.
EhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhFor the sake of this discussion I decided to compare Sega's sore on Metacritic with Nintendo's. Because you know Nintendo games are usually seen as quality titles with attention to detail and very well made while Sega is seen as being the complete opposite? Surprise, their average score isn't that different. Even though the Good to Mixed ratio is better on Nintendo's side.
Around 12 or so Sega games have been review bombed. (by users) So basically ALL the SMT and Persona games have been review bombed or were last year and Metacuck never fixed their shit.
nkarafo
Member
That's the beauty of these arcade boards. They were out of reach. The pinnacle of graphics technology and a taste of how console/PC games will look in the future. And that was the point of going to the arcades, to see these incredible games an out of reach hardware can render and be impressed. Otherwise why even bother going there to spend money?
petran79
Banned
They could make 8k arcade games or HQ VR ones but no operator will take the financial risk to buy, let alone rent such cabs
Recently we played the 2015 Jurassic Park arcade game with all those HD updated graphics. After a while I was in no mood to continue. It felt so bad.
Sega's Lost World had so much better gameplay and direction despite being 18 years older.
Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
Well, Sega CS2 has core developers from Sakura Wars and Valkyria Chronicles working on the new Sakura Wars. The director, Tetsuya Ootsubo, previously worked on Sakura Wars 3. Of course that hasn't stopped them from changing the gameplay to something more action-oriented which is where some of the resentment comes from longtime fans.
Phantasy Star series (Online, Universe, Zero, Portable, Nova) has been all over the place. Not completely multiplatform and at times exclusive to different platforms and then just exclusive to Japan, until Microsoft realized they needed to bolster their games portfolio with some Japanese-developed games and picked Phantasy Star Online 2 which I'm pretty sure western fans had stopped caring about it after 7 years of nothing but then it became one of the highlights at E3.
I'd like to see Virtua Fighter 6. I don't know why Sega has been sleeping on the franchise. Other fighting games like Guilty Gear and King of Fighters had new entries announced this year and apparently Mortal Kombat 11 is selling really well so I think the genre is still popular.
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Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
Sega is weakened by multi (the golden compass from last gen has been counted on each console). If you remove scores from fan sites like "Nintendo blabla", "Nintendo something" the gap becomes even tighter.(no Segabits, no sega nerds on Metacritics...).For the sake of this discussion I decided to compare Sega's sore on Metacritic with Nintendo's. Because you know Nintendo games are usually seen as quality titles with attention to detail and very well made while Sega is seen as being the complete opposite? Surprise, their average score isn't that different. Even though the Good to Mixed ratio is better on Nintendo's side.
For instance, since 2015 (Haruki Satomi's new leadership) Sega remained the only company constantly in the top 3 publisher.
Meta average for 2015-2018:
Nintendo = More or less 75,5%
Sega = More or less 77% (not even counting its leathal weapon which is arcade games)
The domination of mario over Sonic is complete truth. The domination of Nintendo over Sega is a myth, or a point of view or probably a temporary fact (when Sega was still injured after the Dreamcast part bankrupcy)
cireza
You got me...
Since 2015, Sega has never been under 75% on meta. This is the only company able to do that...
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The social aspect was a huge part of it.
Meesh
Member
I truly love Sega, they brought so much diversity and talent into the world since day 1 and through all the highs and lows they remain true to this day. There's is definitely a story I look at fondly... videogame drama for sure.
... I think I might go play some Dreamcast, but i salute you Sega fans and lovers... the dream cast isn't just drama, but the opportunity for a bright rebirth.
There are days I secretly wish they could come up with some form of hardware that compliments, not directly competes with current hardware. A pipe dream, a hope.
... I think I might go play some Dreamcast, but i salute you Sega fans and lovers... the dream cast isn't just drama, but the opportunity for a bright rebirth.
There are days I secretly wish they could come up with some form of hardware that compliments, not directly competes with current hardware. A pipe dream, a hope.
F
Foamy
Unconfirmed Member
Why Sega whhhyyyyy did you take so long to decide to bring Phantasy Star Online 2 to Xbox One?
Just give the X version the treatment and I'll forgive you for your lapse in judgement.
Just give the X version the treatment and I'll forgive you for your lapse in judgement.
Constant Flux
Member
I'm STILL waiting on Jet Set Radio 3.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Compared to the Sega before 2002, to me they still feel like being a different company now.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed.
Starlight Lotice
Member
There was a dark period between 2004 to 2008? Where they made 3/4 bad Sonic Games in a row (I count Heroes as I hate that game), and Project Altered Beast, Shinobi on PS2, NiGHTs Journey to Dreams and I think Golden Axe: Beast Rider were not that great (Shinobi PS2 was more difficult than anything), but in terms of what happened with them under Sammy at that time, I could understand why they were still finding their feet after losing some staff.
Yuji Naka should have stuck around if not for the fact that he is a good programmer (just not a great PR Mouthpiece), but at least Nagoshi got to nurture Yakuza when it was still a young project, and Queen Kodama has stuck with SEGA since the beginning.
I would actually say that SEGA's efforts post 2008 have been really good if we ignore Sonic games (although I love Colours).
Renegade Ops was a pretty great game too even though they published that one, Valkyria Chronicles was a great game but released at the wrong price point (as evidenced by the Word of Mouth it got later), Phantasy Star Universe was good but SEGA of America made everything come much later and lost goodwill on that, and I would say that despite the low sales of Platinum Games, it kind of established P* Games from the experiences since we now see them making great games for other companies (for better or worse, SEGA letting them go out of contract was a great decision as we wouldn't have had NieR Automata or Astral Chain!) We also got the All Stars Series which is amazing and I am at a loss on why they didn't continue this.
Despite things with the Shining Series, I do like the new Shining Resonance being like the Tales of Series as well. Would love a new Shining Fore as well however!
I tend to ignore people when they say that SEGA have done shit or crap games over the years. Every company has blips! (I would say that Capcom/Konami have had a much harder fall from grace during the PS3/360 era with Capcom trying to cater to America/Europe and ruining their new IPs a few games later such as Dead Rising and Lost Planet, and Konami seeming to have lost the plot on Castlevania games and delaying MGSV).
I will confidently say that I have supported SEGA the most post-Dreamcast era during those "bad" times they had, and still enjoyed their games even when they were mocked, and now we get to see them flourish with ATLUS under their belt and suddenly you get these gamers who shat on SEGA all these years now coming out of the woodwork to say "SEGA have vastly improved". It's the direction in SEGA that has improved as the Developers never "lost" their talent, it's just Sonic Team dragged the quality down with the changes to Directors (and leaving Ilzuka in charge of all things modern Sonic), and the memetastic Sonic Twitter also not helping matters.
I still think there could be improvements on the Western side as I think that despite the Mega Drive Mini being an amazing piece of kit and has some decent games on it vs the collections of the past, giving us the same Alex Kidd/Altered Beast/Virtua Fighter 2 combo is annoying as those games are no longer a selling point in Europe or America since they are everywhere, and Konami's Rocket Knight Adventures was a no brainer for the Konami Trio for the Mega Drive. However, I do think the Western side are heading in a better direcion than a few years ago.
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Naked Lunch
Member
Sega back in the Dreamcast days were so amazing. So many different types of games - and all so cool. I didnt even really appreciate it all till I was recently thinking back on their library. Just as some examples: Going from Jet Set, to Daytona, to Sega Bass Fishing, to Virtual On, to Samba de Amigo, to Cosmic Smash, was really something. That lineup is ridiculous, so many risks and innovation. They did it all with so much style.
I mean just a game like Sega Bass Fishing had so much style and charm (who tries making a fishing game?) - I didnt appreciate that game back then. I hope Sega gets back on this track - there are signs, but we're not there yet...
I mean just a game like Sega Bass Fishing had so much style and charm (who tries making a fishing game?) - I didnt appreciate that game back then. I hope Sega gets back on this track - there are signs, but we're not there yet...
This! Hopefully we are on the way there.
Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
If it weren't for Sakura Wars getting the most votes in Sega's public poll, we would probably be seeing Skies of Arcadia 2 instead.
Cpt Conifer
Member
Yeah I'll just take a moment to share my eccentric opinion on this with a side of salt:
I used to pine for them to return to HW like a mofo, but it finally drained out of me by this generation. While I do believe they actually had an awesome HW design team that consistently made choices that lined up with my taste - including the Saturn - what it was really all about for me is I thought they also put out the best standard controllers, even with the controversial Dreamcast design.
But now? Fuck it. Everything is just a PC now in one form or another. Also, even Sony is finally making good controllers with good d-pads. I'm virtually positive it would now be redundant and wasteful for them to come back into the fray, not just financially for them, but also in terms of environmental resources spent (lol). I'm about to dive into cloud PC gaming and never look back, splurging on an Xbox Elite v2 controller along the way. You may laugh, but my ass is ahead of the curve on this.
And now, a specific dose of salt: It was bullshit that Shinobi, a great game, was on PS2. It's not so much about the graphics, although yeah, it would have looked better on other systems. I legit believe with all my heart that the Dual Shock 2 was a terrible controller for its control scheme - the general type of game that it was. I played all the way through it and while I got gud and enjoyed the fruits of my labor, regularly shadow-chaining 5+ enemies and slicing tanks apart in one hit with the inertia, watching the epic cutscene and absorbing all that sweet mana at the end, I always cringed at the process of doing it on the Dual Shock 2 and felt in particular like the lock-on mechanic actually begged for the trigger style of the DC, Xbox, or even GameCube controller and not those peezy LR buttons, with the jank convex sticks that were too closely placed together.
They had an adapter that let you plug an OG Xbox controller into it that I never got a chance to procure, but I just always imagined something was going to go wrong and it would never feel quite right, either with Shinobi or most other games.
I used to pine for them to return to HW like a mofo, but it finally drained out of me by this generation. While I do believe they actually had an awesome HW design team that consistently made choices that lined up with my taste - including the Saturn - what it was really all about for me is I thought they also put out the best standard controllers, even with the controversial Dreamcast design.
But now? Fuck it. Everything is just a PC now in one form or another. Also, even Sony is finally making good controllers with good d-pads. I'm virtually positive it would now be redundant and wasteful for them to come back into the fray, not just financially for them, but also in terms of environmental resources spent (lol). I'm about to dive into cloud PC gaming and never look back, splurging on an Xbox Elite v2 controller along the way. You may laugh, but my ass is ahead of the curve on this.
And now, a specific dose of salt: It was bullshit that Shinobi, a great game, was on PS2. It's not so much about the graphics, although yeah, it would have looked better on other systems. I legit believe with all my heart that the Dual Shock 2 was a terrible controller for its control scheme - the general type of game that it was. I played all the way through it and while I got gud and enjoyed the fruits of my labor, regularly shadow-chaining 5+ enemies and slicing tanks apart in one hit with the inertia, watching the epic cutscene and absorbing all that sweet mana at the end, I always cringed at the process of doing it on the Dual Shock 2 and felt in particular like the lock-on mechanic actually begged for the trigger style of the DC, Xbox, or even GameCube controller and not those peezy LR buttons, with the jank convex sticks that were too closely placed together.
They had an adapter that let you plug an OG Xbox controller into it that I never got a chance to procure, but I just always imagined something was going to go wrong and it would never feel quite right, either with Shinobi or most other games.
Trimesh
Banned
About what? The Xbox to PS2 controller adapter? That certainly existed, it was called the "XP JOY BOX" IIRC, and I probably still have a couple of them somewhere.
Meesh
Member
I just had a random thought... the retro scene feels like its picking up with Analogue and Polymega, not to mention the other boxes... why doesn't Sega just release their own HD Genesis that also plays discs? I think the market is thirsty for Sega hardware.
I know I'd buy it at a high price.
I know I'd buy it at a high price.
If you are talking about the games made by outside studios such as Creative Assembly. Relic or Atlus. Those have always been good studios, making good games even before they were bought by Sega. Their strengths are mostly in JRPGs and PC strategy games. It's Sega's own internal output which has become largely mediocre. They've largely ignored most of their traditional franchises (Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, Ecco, Jet Set Radio, Phantasy Star, Skies, Golden Axe etc etc). And they've failed to make a decent 3D Sonic game. No one would consider Sega a major developer of AAA games these days.
Also in retrospect many of their games that got solid 9/10 reviews on the Dreamcast got lower scores when ported to other platforms. You know Sonic Adventure and the like.
majestix1988
Member
I guess the rise of East is starting now again due West has now issues of abusing its customers via lootboxes and mtx excuses
cireza
Member
These are internal studios.
Unleashed, Colors, Lost World, Generations and Forces are all good to great games.
Internal output from Japan is great overall. Maybe go and check/play some of the recent games to see by yourself ?
Can't believe we are still getting this overused narrative 10 years later.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Wrong there is no good good sonic 3d game
They are all worse then the genesis 2d games.
Starlight Lotice
Member
I can't disagree here but the 3D games are a good effort. I love Colours for being its own thing.
The 2D games as of late haven't been as good except Mania. I hope SEGA continue to work with Christian Whitehead on keeping Sonic's quality high.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
The Snake
Member
The 3D Sonic games are such interesting beasts. Each respective year they came out they were great fun. I was obsessed with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.
Now they're damn near unplayable for me and reek of their respective time periods. I mean I still love 'em, but. Ya know.
Starlight Lotice
Member
I like Adventure 2 over 1 but they are pretty janky.
Hate Heroes/Lost World/Shadoeand got my kicks out of 06 for being terrible.
I think Sonic Team needs a strong producer for the games and keep Sonic to his strengths rather than experiment on each game.
The Snake
Member
I liked Heroes when it came out, but I can't remember if there was anything weird/terrible about it. I just rented it though, so I didn't spend nearly as much time with it as I did with Adventure 1 + 2.
Never played Shadow for more than five minutes and wow, I forgot Lost World even existed
cireza
Member
Wrong
Right
Wrong
Right
Wrong
Right
Wrong
Right
Wrong
Right
How can you anybody say that Colors is bad ? Colors is awesome. Generations, far from being my favorite, had great reviews (maybe because it targeted older players much more ?). People don't like Sonic because they grew up and forget that it is targeted towards kids, with the exception of Mania that was strictly targeted at older players.
Even Sonic Team Racing is actually a pretty big leap forward in terms of presentation and overall polish, still it is going to have lower reviews that Transformed. The reason is that the game is targetting kids, more than Transformed which was strongly oriented towards older players.
Forces is the highest quality Sonic in terms of polish, how the game looks and runs on all consoles, and the biggest localization effort to date.
Every. Single. Time. When a Sonic game targets older players, it gets better reviews.
Since restructuring, Sega has been making all the right efforts in terms of quality, polish and localization, and anyone who follows a bit the company can clearly see this.
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Codswallop_
Neophyte
They're on a roll lately, but I still need that sequel to Skies of Arcadia. At least port Legends to XBL/PSN!
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The Snake
Member
It has to be a licensing thing, right? I know they've come out and stated that it was one of the most requested re-releases. I can't imagine why it isn't already in the works otherwise.
Hell, I would triple-dip if they put it on Switch or something.
cireza
Member
This is a 100% Sega game, so Skies of Arcadia is totally up to them. Keep in mind that it is a massive game, by far the most massive when it was released, and it was developed with pretty old tools. You can't port it that easily. But you can be sure that it is in discussion, especially with Rieko Kodama managing the Sega Ages games, as she was deeply involved in Skies of Arcadia.
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Starlight Lotice
Member
I liked Heroes when it came out, but I can't remember if there was anything weird/terrible about it. I just rented it though, so I didn't spend nearly as much time with it as I did with Adventure 1 + 2.
Never played Shadow for more than five minutes and wow, I forgot Lost World even existed
Heroes is a mess camera and bug wise. Was hyped about a Sonic game on PS2 then that was ruined once I played the game.
Shadow is boring to play and gave you quite hard missions to boot.
Lost World was terrible boss battle wise and a few levels didn't suit Sonic at all. You dodged a bullet there.
I see SoA mentioned and recommend 7th Dragon 3. Amazing RPG.
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Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
A lot of people like Sonic Adventure 2 but I personally think Sonic Adventure is the better game. I couldn't actually finish the sequel because I found Crazy Gadget too frustrating. There's a point towards the end where I die every time and run out of lives. I also prefer the individual character select over the sequel's Hero/Dark story selections. I don't even really consider the sequel an Adventure title since they for whatever reason got rid of the open-ended Adventure stages.
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Pimpbaa
Member
If 3D Mario games can still stay relevant after all these years with people of all ages, then so could Sonic. There is no excuse for the mostly shit 3D Sonic games. Mania was popular not because it targeted older players, it was popular because it was based off the last time Sonic was good.
Komatsu
Member
SEGA's output post-2015 has been incredibly solid and even during their extremely long restructuring (2003-2015) under Sammy, there were plenty of good games, great games and true jewels.
Just looking at the past five years or so, we had:
SEGA JAPAN (AM2, CS3, etc. etc.)
1 - Yakuza 6
2 - Yakuza Kiwami
3 - Yakuza Kiwami 2
4 - Yakuza 0
5 - Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA
6 - Valkyria Chronicles 4
7 - Shining Resonance Refrain
6 - Blade Arcus
7 - Team Sonic Racing
SEGA WEST (Creative Assembly, Amplitude Studios, outsourced..)
8 - Total War: Warhammer
9 - Alien: Isolation
10 - Total War: Warhammer II
11 - Total War: Three Kingdoms
12 - Sonic Mania
13 - Endless Space 2
And I'm not counting the Japan only releases, of which there were plenty.
SEGA has always been an awesome company and even their failures helped drive the industry forward. Unfortunately, their mistakes guarantee that there's not a constituency like Nintendo's willing to greet everything they do as a gift from the Heavens, etc. etc.
Just looking at the past five years or so, we had:
SEGA JAPAN (AM2, CS3, etc. etc.)
1 - Yakuza 6
2 - Yakuza Kiwami
3 - Yakuza Kiwami 2
4 - Yakuza 0
5 - Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA
6 - Valkyria Chronicles 4
7 - Shining Resonance Refrain
6 - Blade Arcus
7 - Team Sonic Racing
SEGA WEST (Creative Assembly, Amplitude Studios, outsourced..)
8 - Total War: Warhammer
9 - Alien: Isolation
10 - Total War: Warhammer II
11 - Total War: Three Kingdoms
12 - Sonic Mania
13 - Endless Space 2
And I'm not counting the Japan only releases, of which there were plenty.
SEGA has always been an awesome company and even their failures helped drive the industry forward. Unfortunately, their mistakes guarantee that there's not a constituency like Nintendo's willing to greet everything they do as a gift from the Heavens, etc. etc.
cireza
Member
You are missing the Puyo Tetris and Champion games as well. Sega Ages games from M2, all games from Atlus etc... You get the most solid output from a third party publisher in my opinion. No wonder they have been in the top three places of the publishers in Metacritic for the last 4 years.
Starlight Lotice
Member
That level is awful, I agree but perfer the level design in 2 overall. I like 1 but felt it has aged worse.
I would have been fine with 1 being a quasi RPG game but I just perfer 2's linearity.
Two posts above has missed 7th Dragon 3.
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Komatsu
Member
Fair enough - totally forgot Puyo. I don't usually include Atlus' game under SEGA, though I guess I should. It's just that they have this weird relationship - SEGA doesn't refer to it in its yearly report as a subsidiary studio, but as a "group company".
EDIT: I also did not include the AGES line as those are not new releases though they're all excellent.
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I’m a huge Sega fan. With the exception of Sega 3D Classics and Sonic Mania, I see little that resembles the quality and craftmanship that their prior games had. I love SoR but “4” seems like a bad 2008 2.5d revival and looks and plays nothing like the actual series.
Lets not forget that this company continues to make games like Sonic Forces and makes anime Shining Force games. Sega’s output on the mastersystem, saturn, genesis, and game gear is not even close to being matched by what the company is doing now.
Lets not forget that this company continues to make games like Sonic Forces and makes anime Shining Force games. Sega’s output on the mastersystem, saturn, genesis, and game gear is not even close to being matched by what the company is doing now.
Komatsu
Member
Sonic Forces is a perfectly decent game for kids and some of the anime Shining titles were good.
Codswallop_
Neophyte
Has Sega said much about Company of Heroes 3 yet? The original is getting released on ipad this fall, and the games are still receiving patches and updates on twitter, so they are still very much alive. Maybe in 2020?
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