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[Chaos17]

How do these games play compared to the original Shadowrun on SNES? I loved that game a lot and these ones certainly look nice but I'm wondering how the gameplay is.

dumdown version of X-com.

 

[Messofanego]

I am a Hong Konger and always amazed at how people oversea still perceive Hong Kong as a place full of Chinese shrines and temples with dragons, street markets with bizarre foods, huge underground triad networks, insane rate of piracy etc.

We are not in the 80s anymore. It's like people imagine US as a land only with cowboys ala Red Dead Redemption.

You look like you could use a pork bun.

 

[Durante]

This. Hell, isn't half of the US run by native americans in the Shadowrun universe?

And there's a troll kingdom in the black forest in Germany.

Basically, Shadowrun takes science fiction, and mixes it up with both general fantasy tropes and culturally-appropriate location-specific twists (see also e.g. Tír na nÓg). It's totally awesome IMHO, but also not where you should get your "realistic" impression of cultures from

 

[mclem]

Basically, Shadowrun takes science fiction, and mixes it up with both general fantasy tropes and culturally-appropriate location-specific twists (see also e.g. Tír na nÓg). It's totally awesome IMHO, but also not where you should get your "realistic" impression of cultures from

I think it's probably not unreasonable to cite the heavy 50's vibe of Fallout here. No-one's under the impression that that's what America's really like... are they?

 

[El Topo]

I still can't believe we got a Shadowrun game - a really good one at that - set in Berlin. If you had told me that ten or fifteen years ago, I would've laughed at you.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I am ok without taking a lot of items off of bodies but the whole tag line of "Shoot Straight. Conserve Ammo. And never make a deal with a Dragon." Doesn't work without ammo. I would like to grab ammo off bodies and consumables through a mission.

I'm all for more inventory management and grabbing things from the environment, but I don't want ammo to become a mechanic. They already have reloading as an important thing to track and plan for without requiring you to micromanage supplies (XCOM does the same thing, except for high-value ammo like rockets and grenades). I like that balance.

 

[BrokenFiction]

I'm all for more inventory management and grabbing things from the environment, but I don't want ammo to become a mechanic. They already have reloading as an important thing to track and plan for without requiring you to micromanage supplies (XCOM does the same thing, except for high-value ammo like rockets and grenades). I like that balance.

I agree with this. I like managing reloads as part of available action points, but not dealing with the actual ammo itself. This is one thing that irks me about Wasteland 2.

 

[Messofanego]

I think it's probably not unreasonable to cite the heavy 50's vibe of Fallout here. No-one's under the impression that that's what America's really like... are they?

If this isn't America, disappointed!

 

[mclem]

If this isn't America, disappointed!

Yeah, that's what was in the back of my mind as I said it!

 

[MichaelFassbender]

Probably my favorite aspect of the first two campaigns is the lull after you're dropped into the next mission. Stacking up in the dark alley or corridor, unsure of how to approach the upcoming situation. You know it's all going to go to shit once that door gets opened, but the sense of palpable unpredictability is enticing.
Harebrained does a great job of communicating that, unlike a whole lot of other games out there.

 

[WanderingWind]

Dragonfall was nothing like modern Berlin either - doesn't matter at all imo, it's still refreshing to have unusual settings and let them flow into the story and dialogs.

Nah, I went to Berlin recently. I saw lots of what I can only assume were trolls there.

 

[Gurgelhals]

And there's a troll kingdom in the black forest in Germany.

Ok, now I want this to be the setting of the campaign coming after the Hong Kong campaign!


KS has slowed down quite a bit over the past few hours, but I guess that's only normal. It definitely needs to reach the revamped matrix goal though (and it probably will).

 

[EndcatOmega]

I like the fact that due to the passage of time from the first couple of editions of Shadowrun they've had to retcon the Kowloon Walled City being taken down like it was in real life, and then put back up again almost exactly the same in 2030 or something.

 

[cbrotherson]

Really want that messenger bag, but too worried about the possible quality when the price is that high. You'd think it would be a given *because* of the price, but that's not always the case when it comes to Kickstarter extras.

That aside, this will be backed regardless. Love Shadowrun.

 

[Durante]

KS has slowed down quite a bit over the past few hours, but I guess that's only normal. It definitely needs to reach the revamped matrix goal though (and it probably will).

It hasn't even been 24 hours yet, and it's almost halfway there.

Of course kickstarters are generally frontloaded, and follow-up kickstarters are even more frontloaded than new ones, but I'm confident that it will reach 700k.

 

[kiyoaki]

That $500 level is big, big news for older players.. we haven't had an opportunity to get into the lore since Super Tuesday and Dunklezahn's Will..

Think about it, that's an opportunity for one of your runners to appear, even in passing, in the Canon lore of Shardowrun. That's insane and amazing.

The insane thing is, they already have over 50 backers at that level and above. I fear that the novel will either turn into the cyberpunk version of War & Peace, or that the backer-created characters will have to be mostly glossed over...

Racter looks cool. I'am also looking forward to Gaichu (害虫? lol) character art. This will probably be the first playable Japanese ghoul in an RPG ever, right?

 

[Saty]

It may be a prioritization reality but it rubs me the wrong way when devs basically openly say: 'pledge us more money or else we are going to release this game worse than it could have by not implementing the improvements we have now laid out publicly, and we aren't going to dig deeper in our pockets to do them.'

 

[GavinUK86]

I think they should bring up the characters personal missions to the next goals. They're more important than tweaking audio or gameplay mechanics.

 

[Kinthalis]

It may be a prioritization reality but it rubs me the wrong way when devs basically openly say: 'pledge us more money or else we are going to release this game worse than it could have by not implementing the improvements we have now laid out publicly, and we aren't going to dig deeper in our pockets to do them.'

It's not about no digging deeper into their pockets, but very possibly, not being able to dig deeper.

They want to make a game that will have every feature they want to put in. Obviously that's not something that happens even on AAA devleopment. Things are always cut due to budget or time or manpower or skillsets.

This is them basically saying, we have a ton of ideas on hwo to make this game even better (this wil always be true), but we don't have the required funds to make them reality.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Just went and looked at Kicktraq for the original SR and SR:HK. The 1st days are remarkably similar.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/#chart-daily

SR received $296,988 the first day from 6,427 pledges.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong/#chart-daily

Yesterday, SR:HK received $267,945 the first day from 6,595 pledges.

 

[Sinatar]

They ran out of money and had to take out loans to finish Shadowrun Returns and it almost sank their company. They don't have pockets to dig in.

 

[Opiate]

It may be a prioritization reality but it rubs me the wrong way when devs basically openly say: 'pledge us more money or else we are going to release this game worse than it could have by not implementing the improvements we have now laid out publicly, and we aren't going to dig deeper in our pockets to do them.'

Isn't that always the case, though? Money buys features. A small company like this has a particularly finite amount of money. This is why the feature-check-list approach to game design has been so beneficial to major publishers; they're the ones who have the money, so their big games can check every box they want.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Just went and looked at Kicktraq for the original SR and SR:HK. The 1st days are remarkably similar.

As a returning KS this one's going to be a lot more frontloaded, but looking at it a million is easily reachable.

 

[BrokenFiction]

As a returning KS this one's going to be a lot more frontloaded, but looking at it a million is easily reachable.

I agree. The trick here will be even more constant communication with the fans. Keep teasing what you've got.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I agree. The trick here will be even more constant communication with the fans. Keep teasing what you've got.

Hey, it's a WRPG KS, they can do what everyone else does when they run of steam: force Chris Avellone to write a novel.

 

[mclem]

Hey, it's a WRPG KS, they can do what everyone else does when they run of steam: force Chris Avellone to write a novel.

I bet he's secretly got a Madlibs-based novel generator hidden away.

 

[Var]

I bet he's secretly got a Madlibs-based novel generator hidden away.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

 

[delirium]

Easy $15.

 

[Azih]

Kickstarter has really cemented itself as an ideal funding model for smaller developers who have a track record of pleasing their fans.

They'd be dumb NOT to use it honestly.

 

[ashecitism]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong/posts

Hey everyone!

Overnight, we hit $300,000 and unlocked Gobbet's Personal Mission!! Woo hoo! Gobbet was the first character we came up with for Shadowrun: Hong Kong and we have a lot of affection for her. Can't wait to play out the run dealing with her backstory!

We would have LOVED to celebrate hitting $300,000 with everyone (especially our overseas Backers) but creating our new Kickstarter project and running it for the first day proved exhausting for our grizzled leadership, who fell asleep around 10pm Pacific. Going forward, we'll try and find some more... sprightly people to man the helm after dark.

And now we're closing in on $350,000, which will allow us to up our audio game... which'll make our Composer and Audio Director, Jon Everist, very happy indeed. We hope this will help immerse you even deeper into Hong Kong's atmosphere.

aaaaand passed 350k

The stretch goals still don't cover personal missions for every single announced party member. Are some already part of the main game?

Looking at the first paragraph, doesn't seem like it.

 

[HK-47]

400k and 700k are the most important goals.

 

[Shake Appeal]

It might be strange to have side missions for some characters but not all, but maybe that's just because my brain is used to companion side quests being structured the same in so many different games.

 

[EndcatOmega]

It might be strange to have side missions for some characters but not all, but maybe that's just because my brain is used to companion side quests being structured the same in so many different games.

Dragonfall vanilla technically only had one for Dietrich.

 

[Kieli]

I wish they had a direct-pledge option so I don't give Kickstarter any funds.

 

[Fevaweva]

Backed!

 

[Durante]

400k and 700k are the most important goals.

Also 550k. Because Magic.

 

[Fjordson]

Dragonfall vanilla technically only had one for Dietrich.

Oh really? Weird. So the director's cut added the Glory, Eiger and Blitz missions (I only played the DC)? Those were some of the best quests in the game. Especially the Glory one.

 

[Twilight Princess]

Oh really? Weird. So the director's cut added the Glory, Eiger and Blitz missions (I only played the DC)? Those were some of the best quests in the game. Especially the Glory one.

THERE IS A GLORY SIDE MISSION?????????? Shit I gotta play the directors cut

 

[FACE]

Shadowrun: Hong Kong is being developed for Windows, Mac, and Linux operating systems only. We have elected to focus all our efforts on PC in order to deliver the best game we can without the current processing and memory limitations of tablets. This focus allows us to have higher-fidelity visuals, larger map sizes, and more stuff on screen.

 

[Vamphuntr]

550k and we get new magics. You know what to do GAF.

 

[Fjordson]

THERE IS A GLORY SIDE MISSION?????????? Shit I gotta play the directors cut

Yes, it's amazing. Fun to play through, some good story and backstory, and important choices to make. Choices that not only change the mission and the upgrade you get for Glory, but Glory as a character for the rest of the game

Actually all those character specific sidequests had big crew member upgrades as rewards. Part of why I'm a little surprised they weren't in the vanilla Dragonfall campaign.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Oh really? Weird. So the director's cut added the Glory, Eiger and Blitz missions (I only played the DC)? Those were some of the best quests in the game. Especially the Glory one.

The assault rifle you got in Eiger's mission was perfect, since it finally filled the gap whenever you were stuck at mid range where neither the sniper rifle or shotgun were optimal.

Actually the weird thing is, I don't remember getting Dietrich's side quest. I know I completed it for everyone else. What was it?

 

[4Tran]

Yes, it's amazing. Fun to play through, some good story and backstory, and important choices to make. Choices that not only change the mission and the upgrade you get for Glory, but Glory as a character for the rest of the game

Actually all those character specific sidequests had big crew member upgrades as rewards. Part of why I'm a little surprised they weren't in the vanilla Dragonfall campaign.

Wow, no wonder I read that people hated using Eiger. Her upgrade gives her way more flexible combat options.

Actually the weird thing is, I don't remember getting Dietrich's side quest. I know I completed it for everyone else. What was it?

Humanis. I did find it odd that it came up long before the others'.

 

[Fjordson]

The assault rifle you got in Eiger's mission was perfect, since it finally filled the gap whenever you were stuck at mid range where neither the sniper rifle or shotgun were optimal.

Wow, no wonder I read that people hated using Eiger. Her upgrade gives her way more flexible combat options.

Exactly. I got a great healing spell for Glory, the beefy assault rifle for Eiger, and that new deck for Blitz. All pretty major upgrades.

As for Dietrich's mission, I think it's basically when you take him with you on the Humanis quest and open up the whole subplot with saving his nephew. I don't believe he had one separate from that.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Ok, I remember that now. Not sure why I didn't put that together. I think because for the rest of the companions you had to go through all of their conversation trees and that took until mid/near the end of the game.

 

[Fjordson]

Ok, I remember that now. Not sure why I didn't put that together. I think because for the rest of the companions you had to go through all of their conversation trees and that took until mid/near the end of the game.

Yeah, it wasn't quite as much of a separate thing for Dietrich.

 

[syko de4d]

crazy how good the ks runs. Maybe they should have timed it with a Weekend Sale for Shadowrun + dragonfall. Maybe it will come the next 1-3weeks.

 

[MrCunningham]

It hasn't even been 24 hours yet, and it's almost halfway there.

Of course kickstarters are generally frontloaded, and follow-up kickstarters are even more frontloaded than new ones, but I'm confident that it will reach 700k.

Indeed, the first few days and the last few days usually see the biggest funding days when it comes to higher profile projects like this.

 

[Saty]

Isn't that always the case, though? Money buys features. A small company like this has a particularly finite amount of money. This is why the feature-check-list approach to game design has been so beneficial to major publishers; they're the ones who have the money, so their big games can check every box they want.

Yes, but up until recently those dilemmas were kept and dealt with internally. I don't expect every dev to work for free to get features in the game that didn't have budget left but i also don't like how that reality is being used as an 'incentive' to get more money. Feels like they are 'threatening' releasing not-as-good of a game and that if that happens it's partly (mostly?) because we fans didn't give them enough money.

And then they list in very specific details what those improvements are and which one they'll implement at the next 100K gained -- diverting discussion and promotion of the game based on the stretch goals rather than the base target funding. And seeing this laundry list of features spelled out almost has a psychological effect on the would-be backers: now that it's all laid out we can't possibly be satisfied with the base goal and must work to get as much of the stretch goal as possible.

Tough realities of game development being used as a crude campaign pushes to get as much money as possible.

I already dislike stretch goals that are just more content and new features - how do they decide to place X feature at 300k while Y feature at 600k and not the other way around? There's no rime or reason.
At the very least do something like: OK, here are the 5 features we would like to do as stretch goals, each will unlock at X step. We're going to poll backers to decide the 'ranking' of each feature.

Get your base funding set. Define and design the game based on that. If you really have that many features that will be left on the cutting floor if don't have enough money then do them as post-release updates (like the ones coming up for Divinity).

These guys did the same with the Dragonfall campaign that introduced tweaks and improvements that were applied to Returns as well.

 

[rickyson1]

Yes, but up until recently those dilemmas were kept and dealt with internally. I don't expect every dev to work for free to get features in the game that didn't have budget left but i also don't like how that reality is being used as an 'incentive' to get more money. Feels like they are 'threatening' releasing not-as-good of a game and that if that happens it's partly (mostly?) because we fans didn't give them enough money.

And then they list in very specific details what those improvements are and which one they'll implement at the next 100K gained -- diverting discussion and promotion of the game based on the stretch goals rather than the base target funding. And seeing this laundry list of features spelled out almost has a psychological effect on the would-be backers: now that it's all laid out we can't possibly be satisfied with the base goal and must work to get as much of the stretch goal as possible.

Tough realities of game development being used as a crude campaign pushes to get as much money as possible.

I already dislike stretch goals that are just more content and new features - how do they decide to place X feature at 300k while Y feature at 600k and not the other way around? There's no rime or reason.
At the very least do something like: OK, here are the 5 features we would like to do as stretch goals, each will unlock at X step. We're going to poll backers to decide the 'ranking' of each feature.

Get your base funding set. Define and design the game based on that. If you really have that many features that will be left on the cutting floor if don't have enough money then do them as post-release updates (like the ones coming up for Divinity).

These guys did the same with the Dragonfall campaign that introduced tweaks and improvements that were applied to Returns as well.

in this specific case though the 100k base goal is pretty meaningless in and of itself, they have been very clear that the games getting made regardless and the kickstarter is entirely about making the game better

the stretch goals are what people SHOULD be focusing on in a case like this

maybe you don't like that and that's fine but it's not like they're misleading people here,they've made it completely obvious from the start