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Sharp says it faces material doubt on survival, $5.6 billion full-year loss
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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You mean when Apple enters the TV market by slapping an Apple logo onto a screen and plopping iOS into the innards manufactured by Sharp, Samsung, LG, etc.?
It will only give life to apple and that's it. People seem willing to shell out big bucks for apple products alone, take the name off and suddenly people would want to pay 40% less.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
There are a lot of models on shelves here in the US.
I actually like their units, but never bothered to buy one. They're being beaten either on price, functionality, or quality by competing manufacturers. The only other manufacturer that is as middle of the road as they are is Sony, and at least Sony still has enough legacy goodwill to get by on being overpriced.
This plus all the copypasta of the new hot thing they will produce and sell because of all the people that won't buy Apple thing 'cause is Apple
George Takei Sharp Aquos commercials are pretty common in Canada.
Captain N. Tenneal
Member
Sharp is fairly common in Canada - generally well respected. I've got 2 Sharp HDTV's in my house, will likely get a third in the near future. Sad news for both Sharp and Panasonic.
Yeah we had that too in Italy a couple of years ago... since then nothing.
Warm Machine
Member
I own an older 52" Sharp and a new 62" Sharp. I love both of them and think their tech is quite good. However, both panels have issues that bother me bu still enjoy them.
See, this is what happens when margins get so small and price expectations are set. All LCD panel manufacturers are not doing very well.
See, this is what happens when margins get so small and price expectations are set. All LCD panel manufacturers are not doing very well.
Liquidsnake
Banned
My Sharp Aquos continues to be my prized possession.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
If Sony are overpriced then what the hell are Samsung doing:
$1,998.00
$2,497.99
$1,498.00
$1,997.99
Guess who has the cheaper TVs? Hint, it isn't Samsung.
The comparable Sony TVs are better reviewed and cheaper this year, in 2013 the trend will continue, the only difference will be that Sony don't hype the shit out of their stuff.
At the top end Samsung's 75" is around $9k while Sony's 65" is around $4.5k and both have full array LED backlighting. Samsung don't offer full array in smaller sizes.
Tallshortman
Member
You're assuming the only two scenarios for Apple for entering the market end with great success. There's a reason Apple doesn't jump into every industry. Current TV makers already make very attractive and super slim sets and sell them at far lower prices than Apple ever would.
How long until one of the big five in Japan goes belly up? How many years in a row can these companies take these kind of losses?
I have never seen a Sharp TV here
Sharp and Panasonic will be bankrupt quickly unless they get funding. Within two years, possibly.
Sony will last longer as they can still borrow and they're better run; the trick with Japanese reporting is that in Japan you pay taxes on your posted financial results; this leads firms to post weaker earnings than in the us.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The only TV Samsung sell for a profit is the Elite, so unless you plan to spend over $7k then Sharp are losing money.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
I tried to buy a Sharp 70" but the slower refresh rate was terrible for motion, and I wasn't going to break the bank for the 240 model since it was going to be a secondary display...
It's sad to hear that another manufacture is in real trouble. Their sets are aggressively priced in the market, so I wasn't really expecting this...
It's sad to hear that another manufacture is in real trouble. Their sets are aggressively priced in the market, so I wasn't really expecting this...
To Far Away Times
Member
A 5.6 billion dollar loss. That's billion with a "B" and not an "M." My god.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
I considered not replying to this, but you did some homework so I will, but I'm not going to take this one post further, because I really don't want to fight.
1) I have no idea if the KDL and UN series are comparable or if the UN is more appropriately compared to XBR, but that may be one consideration. I cannot tell from looking at Amazon.
2) If my words were incorrect about the state of the market in November 2012, then I apologize, but for the past decade, Sony has maintained a significant price lead over the competion in most comparable markets (I guess this may have changed with 3D).
3) I have an entirely Sony house, so arguing with me as though I give a shit about how Samsung compares, particularly when I was talking about Sharp and Sony is probably the wrong tack to take.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The ES9000 is comparable to the HX950 as they are local dimming. The ES8000 is comparable to the HX850, they are edge-lit LED with some kind of local dimming and the ES7100 is comparable to the HX750 these are edge-lit LED with no local dimming.
In 2012 Sony sold up all of their interest in panel production and now buy the cheapest they can (like Apple do with phone parts) and get some Chinese OEMs to put a Sony label on the sets. Only the HX950 is produced in Japan, and even then the panel is from AUO.
AstroNut325
Member
I didn't know the HX950s were still made in Japan. That's good to know. When I enter the TV market again I'll target the high-end lines.
Edit:
This is one sexy TV:
Pagusas
Elden Member
Oh i dont expect apple to succeed at all in the market. a TV is "dumb" device and frankly I think it should stay that way. Its for displaying things, they already have the apple TV, I dont want my TV being the actual device processing the fancy stuff, as its a lot harder to update it every few years than it is a stand along device that connects to it.
My current 1080p Samsung A750 has lasted me sence 2008 without a single problem. I expect my next TV to last me a good 4 - 5 years. Apples product lifecycle doesnt support what I want in a tv.
Seriously. Sharp and Sony TVs only for me..I don't want a world with only major tv makers are LG and Samsung.
Yeah, that way they can make $15b annual losses!
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Sharp could have bought Lucasfilm and still had enough to fill a swimming pool with 100 dollar bills with that money.
killdatninja
Banned
Quite a few things you do not take into account. I've sold TV's for 3 years, saw a pattern every year.
1.) Sony has terrible pricing year-round EXCEPT when it comes to the end of the year. They usually stay at MSRP most the year, save a few sales here and there. Whereas the Samsung is constantly on sale, with bundles.
2.) Samsung is PERCEPTION VALUE heavy, yeah the TV might cost $300+ more than the comparable sony but you get a free sound system (soundbar or HTIB) and usually a free blu-ray player. Look at your first link, "Buy This TV and Choose One of 11 Bundle Options". Consumers think "Wow, I get a whole home theater experience for one price!", whereas the sony is more of "Ok the TV is 2k, the sound system is $300, and the blu-ray player is $100, etc etc". TL;DR people like free more than they like adding on to the cost.
Yeah, I've never seen the point in a mass market Apple set, doesn't make sense that they'd try and manufacture the screen part where there are so many size and quality variations. I have to imagine that an Apple TV would just be a box much like the current TV with maybe a standard protocol for controlling the display itself.
Who knows though, it worked for the iMac...
kitschykitty
Member
I used to sell tv's a few years ago (in Canada for price references) and the biggest problem was customers with unreasonable expectations for price. I considered getting a really nice 55 inch (maybe 3d or a Smart TV) for $1200-$1500 was an incredible price. 99% of customers saw the super cheap brand with no features, high returns and a product life of a couple years for around $500-$700 and would refuse to spend anything more than that. I explained the benefits of both (especially the differences in build quality and screen quality) and what the value of that extra money would get them, but it would rarely cause the customer to even consider anything above the cheapest model.
I mean buy what you want, but make an informed desicion, the race to the bottom isn't helping the companies or the customers who now needs to buy a new tv every few years.
I mean buy what you want, but make an informed desicion, the race to the bottom isn't helping the companies or the customers who now needs to buy a new tv every few years.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Yeah.. "Sharp.. smart.. very smart"..
But for some reason, when I think of buying a TV.. nope.. doesn't come to mind.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I don't want a world with only major tv makers are LG and Samsung.
Uh, isn't Vizio still #1 in US marketshare?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Thanks, so what you're saying is that Sony should jack the prices up by $500 to match Samsung and throw in $300-500 worth of junk? Fair enough.
Agreed about the pricing, but in 2013, both Samsung and Sony are heading for a new fixed pricing scheme as they both lose way too much money in the US on TVs. Look at this thread to see where that leads.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
I was going to buy a Sony VPL-VW95 but then they had changed their MAP pricing to their venders. What that meant was that I'd have to pay an extra $700 CND in order to buy their product because of their new pricing structure.
That was the last straw for me...
killdatninja
Banned
Not necessarily saying that, they have done that in the past specifically with a phenomenal bundle with their TV + PS3 + GAME + Blu-ray movie, sold incredibly well but not sure how well it turned out for them that year.
Samsung has the perception of being the best TV maker out there at this point in time. People are willing to pay the difference between 'good' and 'the best'. Even if Samsung didn't have any bundles. I can't begin to tell you how many TV's customers sold themselves because the samsung was "nice and sharp"/ "colorful and vivid". The free accessories are just icing on the cake, enough to seal the deal.
Fake Edit: They still have the bundle page up... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat197700050041&type=category
speculawyer
Member
Indeed. The television manufacturing business is a killing field right now. There is huge over-capacity in flat panel manufacturing. This is why pretty much anyone can buy a cheap flat panel HDTV these days whereas they used to cost many thousands just a few years back.
polyh3dron
Banned
Of course the companies making the best TVs have to go under.
And Samsung TVs are shit compared to the top end Sharp and Panasonics FYI.
And Samsung TVs are shit compared to the top end Sharp and Panasonics FYI.
i don't understand. Demand for displays has surely never been higher. All TVs are flat panel, smartphones and tablets are requiring larger and higher res panels and volumes are through the roof.
How are Sharp, Sony and Panasonic all doing so badly? Is it just LG/Samsung taking all the deals?
How are Sharp, Sony and Panasonic all doing so badly? Is it just LG/Samsung taking all the deals?
Sharp is still big boy in the panel market but my guess is that there isn't that much money in the business. As you said demand is high and competition is brutal, everybody has to lower their prices.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
No, even Samsung lose money on TVs. It's Chinese manufacturing which has pushed consumer prices and expectations so low that has killed them. Sharp didn't help themselves by killing their own brand with dross 60-80" TVs for less than $2000 and in the process destroying the last profitable avenue for TV makers (ultra large sets) in pursuit of market share.
Sharp deserve to go bankrupt. I expect Sony and Toshiba will buy up their assets and IP on the cheap in the ensuing firesale.
There is a slew of places to make money.
Where are the brand name higher res computer monitors. I have to buy a no name to get anything better than 1080p at this point.
Where are the 4k tvs . Some people buying now will be okay with paying a price premium over 1080p sets esp as more camera's come out with the ability to record at higher resolutions The problem is that these companys push the wrong thing. Who wants 3d ? No one but yet they ram it down our throats. I 'd love higher res for native content and to upscale blurays and other media. But oh well i'm going to have to wait a few years before it becomes affordable.
victreeb3l
Member
arent they supplying displays for mobile phones and tablets?
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