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Shin Megami Tensei IV |EU OT| Atlus Shrugged

S

SpaceBridge

Member
Kain said:
The fight against (spoilers of the neutral path)

Beelzebub is BULLSHIT. Oh, here, let me spam three Megidolaon in a row. Oh, you survived that, never mind, let me use three Mudoons in a row, even though you are resistant to instant death it'll somehow kill you. Oh my, you survived that? No worries my man, let me use this STUPID spell I have which reduces the life of all party members to one and then a little Megidolaon to make sure you die. And all the while all party members are sick, of course.

Winning this is pure luck and I hate it when devs use these cheap tactics to screw with the player. This is the battle planner: "I don't know how to increase the difficulty so I'll just create a boss with stupid unavoidable patterns. Problem solved, I am a genius!"

Fuck you battle planner.

Tell me this quest is not mandatory, please T_T
Click to expand...

It isn't.
 
D

Dascu

Member
Kain said:
The fight against (spoilers of the neutral path)

Beelzebub is BULLSHIT. Oh, here, let me spam three Megidolaon in a row. Oh, you survived that, never mind, let me use three Mudoons in a row, even though you are resistant to instant death it'll somehow kill you. Oh my, you survived that? No worries my man, let me use this STUPID spell I have which reduces the life of all party members to one and then a little Megidolaon to make sure you die. And all the while all party members are sick, of course.

Winning this is pure luck and I hate it when devs use these cheap tactics to screw with the player. This is the battle planner: "I don't know how to increase the difficulty so I'll just create a boss with stupid unavoidable patterns. Problem solved, I am a genius!"

Fuck you battle planner.

Tell me this quest is not mandatory, please T_T
Click to expand...

It is bullshit and it is mandatory.

Tips:
- Null, Repel or Drain Gun is useful against his party-wide gun attack.
- Null Nerve will stop his Sickness attack.
- Both of the above will also end his turn.
- Luster Candy and/or Debilitate will soften the blow of Megidolaon.

Edit: SpaceBridge, are you sure?
 
S

SpaceBridge

Member
Dascu said:
It is bullshit and it is mandatory.

Tips:
- Null, Repel or Drain Gun is useful against his party-wide gun attack.
- Null Nerve will stop his Sickness attack.
- Both of the above will also end his turn.
- Luster Candy and/or Debilitate will soften the blow of Megidolaon.

Edit: SpaceBridge, are you sure?
Click to expand...

I beat all routes without even fighting him.
 
T

totowhoa

Banned
Soulhouf said:
There is an answer to almost every question if you pay attention and speak to every NPC after each major event. Some of them are alignment exclusive (mainly Neutral).

Basically:

Just like in SMT1, after demons appeared in Tokyo, God launched nuclear missiles to destroy the city. Just before that, god picked up a few humans (with the cocoon) to use them to start over.

If God's scheme was a success, the result is what you see in Blasted Tokyo: wasteland everywhere before the chosen ones have been brought back to build a new city and worship God. Pluto has been sent to exterminate the remaining "filthy" humans.
Infernal Tokyo is the result of humans allying with the demons and totally preventing God from executing his plan. That's why you still see the cocoon in Shinjuku national park.
These are 2 extreme cases that represent Law and Chaos. They didn't happen that's why the White presented them as possibilities.

What really happened is between these 2 extreme scenarios. God was able to pickup a few chosen humans. Meanwhile, a hero was able to summon Masakado, the guardian deity of Tokyo who became the ceiling that protected the city from destruction.
When the cocoon came back, the humans inside found themselves on top of the ceiling instead of the destroyed city but the landscape was very similar(that's why Jonathan said the lakes in Mikado used to be cavities like the ones in Blasted Tokyo).
Akira, a member of the counter demon force and a friend of the hero who protected the city, was looking for his sister who was kidnapped by the angels. He was able to reach the top of the ceiling and decided to stay there, putting a powerful demon to protect the entry(Minotaur).
All that happened 25 years ago but if you talk to some samurai in Mikado some time after you reach Tokyo, they will tell you that they were absent for 1 day but when they came back their children grew up as if 6 months have passed or something, which suggest that time goes a lot faster in Mikado.
Akira became king Aquilla who named the regions of Mikado after Tokyo's districts. That's why the names look so similar:
Kiccigiorgi <-> Kichijoji
Cibooya <-> Shibuya
Shene Duque <-> Shinjuku
Click to expand...

Dude, that was super enlightening. As somebody who beat the game twice when it came out here in the States (and luckily got neutral my 2nd time), I hadn't put half that together.
 
S

Semajer

Member
Just finished on neutral. Thought it was fantastic. Although I fused a Shiva shortly after the alignment lock and steam-rolled the remainder of the game without anyone on my team dying.

P.S. Fuck you whoever decided that the last
Mikado
quest could only be done in the final dungeon, but before completing it.
 
J

Jisgsaw

Member
Kain said:
The fight against (spoilers of the neutral path)

Beelzebub is BULLSHIT. Oh, here, let me spam three Megidolaon in a row. Oh, you survived that, never mind, let me use three Mudoons in a row, even though you are resistant to instant death it'll somehow kill you. Oh my, you survived that? No worries my man, let me use this STUPID spell I have which reduces the life of all party members to one and then a little Megidolaon to make sure you die. And all the while all party members are sick, of course.

Winning this is pure luck and I hate it when devs use these cheap tactics to screw with the player. This is the battle planner: "I don't know how to increase the difficulty so I'll just create a boss with stupid unavoidable patterns. Problem solved, I am a genius!"

Fuck you battle planner.

Tell me this quest is not mandatory, please T_T
Click to expand...

Don't nullify, repel or drain all of his non almighty attacks.
Else he'll go in a forced almighty spam. He still uses them a lot either way, but it's a bit more manageable.

But yeah, hardest boss I faced I think, maybe with
Sanat. Masakado's Shadow is off category of course.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
It's a shame bosses are such a pushover. In Nocturne I went into boss rooms with an actual feeling of dread, here I take most of them down in 3 rounds on my first try.
It's a shame, other than that I love the game, I'm currently in
Ginza
.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Jisgsaw said:
Don't nullify, repel or drain all of his non almighty attacks.
Else he'll go in a forced almighty spam. He still uses them a lot either way, but it's a bit more manageable.

But yeah, hardest boss I faced I think, maybe with
Sanat. Masakado's Shadow is off category of course.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
I just beat him with a team lv50-60 in hard mode (rebirth NG+) and I had no trouble at all because all my demons didn't have any null/repel/drain of his attacks.
Beelzebub isn't BS, it's a boss who isn't dumb to attack with a skill that will make him loose one or many press turns.

I think it's safe to say that he is one of the best designed bosses in the game.

Sklorenz said:
Dude, that was super enlightening. As somebody who beat the game twice when it came out here in the States (and luckily got neutral my 2nd time), I hadn't put half that together.
Click to expand...

No problem. I'm glad I didn't write that little post for nothing!
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
jgminto said:
Wow, a decent luck build is no joke. With mahamaon/mamudoon I consistently kill any mob that isn't resistant to them.
Click to expand...

Get Judgement Light and Die For Me for better result.
Also try to get multi hit physical/gun attacks/weapons to be sure to land at least one critical hit in every attack. This applies to Desperate Hit(almighty) as well. That's why that skill is broken.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
I'll read those spoilers after I beat the game, but thanks for posting them, should help me get a better idea of the events.
While I like the idea of speaking to NPCs for more info...I'm used to the main game's plot offering such information. As is I'm just going with what the game is relaying to me about events and past stuff etc.

At any rate, I've made it to what appears to be refered to as
Infernal Tokyo. I like how Araki's behaving somewhat like Chaos Hero from SMT1 when we arrive in Shinjuku, but the demons in this reality don't interest me sadly and give off like 9000 EXP.

BTW how do I get Scathach? Been wanting to fuse Cu Chulainn but I haven't encountered that demon yet =_=
 
R

ramyeon

Member
Tizoc said:
I'll read those spoilers after I beat the game, but thanks for posting them, should help me get a better idea of the events.
While I like the idea of speaking to NPCs for more info...I'm used to the main game's plot offering such information. As is I'm just going with what the game is relaying to me about events and past stuff etc.

At any rate, I've made it to what appears to be refered to as
Infernal Tokyo. I like how Araki's behaving somewhat like Chaos Hero from SMT1 when we arrive in Shinjuku, but the demons in this reality don't interest me sadly and give off like 9000 EXP.

BTW how do I get Scathach? Been wanting to fuse Cu Chulainn but I haven't encountered that demon yet =_=
Click to expand...
http://erikku.github.io/smt4tool/

Use this for finding out ways to fuse demons, really useful tool.
 
F

fengshuifever

Member
Tizoc said:
OK so uh...what the fuck just happened? Someone help me get a hold of the story please
I decide to join Jonathan to stop Walter and Lilith. Walter goes to this Yamato Reactor, whatever the fuck it is, and activates it.
Is the Yamato Reactor what brought demons to our world?

I eventually meet The White who reflect upon me, and then I'm in...an alternate reality Tokyo?
This one was destroyed by the demons' arrival and the world is purged, with Pluto pumping poison onto the overworld.
At the time, to counter the demons' arrival, Demonicas were created to fight them, but the Counter Demon Force was defeated and the world destroyed.

That's what I got from Akira at least, I don't think any of the other NPCs elaborated on what happened.

OK so I destroy Pluto and go into that reality's Yamato Reactor, hoping it'll return me to my original reality.

I meet the White again but by now I learn that they're showed me a version of Tokyo that's part of the 'Law alignment' the series is known for.

They send me to another Tokyo reality, but in this one a solution to the demon problem is to create a union or symbiosis of sorts with the demons, some going so far as to fuse with them. Here I meet an Arika who is fused and wants me to deal with some Kanji.
I stopped at that point since i had to go to bed.

In a way I like how the world, story and setting is presented to me, on the other I'm confused about a few things.
If these questions will be answered as I progress, then just say so so I keep playing to find out by myself thanks

1-
Minotaur says he made a contract with his master 1500 years ago, that would make it that Mikado and its surroundings existed for that long period of time.
When I reach Tokyo, I learn that demons invaded the world 25 years ago, and that some people made an exodus in a giant white cocoon. Did this exodus occur upon the demons arrival or shortly after?
Notice also the time discrepancy 1500 years vs. 25! Did time move faster in Mikado or something? Or does Minotaur's contract with Aquila span many realities?

2-
Sky and Mikado are a little confusing.
Was the Sky Tower erected AFTER the cocoon left? How did an entire landmass exist atop Tokyo, was an effect from the Yamato Reactor causing demons to appear in our world?
Is the real sky even visible anymore or is it covered up by the landmass?

3-
When were Demonicas created and how did Mikado get the tech? Are there even any other big nations/cities beside Mikado?

I guess that's it for now.
Click to expand...

Okay this is kind of what I've put together in my own head.
Keep in mind I'm basing a lot of this on a) NPC dialogue b) my previous knowledge of the series c) filling in the gaps with what makes sense to me.
So a lot of it is probably gonna sound like I've pulled it out of nowhere but bear with me.

So regarding Yamato Reactor.

I feel like the purpose of Yamato Reactor as a storytelling device is a little throwback to the original SMT 1 (and as a side note, I feel like IV is actually a reboot or alternate reality version of the first SMT but that's a conversation for another time)

The Yamato Perpetual Reactor most likely began as an experiment into a literal perpetual energy reactor but found out (much like the first) that it was actually a portal into the Expanse/Makai/whatever.

Instead of the original where Gotou seized control and used it to summon demons, the military in this seized control to use it as a weapon. (Whether it was initially used as a particle weapon or for demons is unknown)

I can imagine things got tricky and demons began to overrun Tokyo.
Cue the explanation below.

Soulhouf said:
Damn Fine Post
Click to expand...

Basically this as well.

The explanations for a lot of the game's events and backstory are there, but hidden inside NPC dialogue.

I finished this the other night on the Law route and...I gotta say I'm incredibly disappointed in it.
I don't want to say anymore and seem like I'm shitting on IV just because and bring the mood in the thread down, it seems there's a lot of people enjoying it here.

I think I'm gonna go fire up a new file in Strange Journey again.
 
K

Kensuke

Member
Made the ultimate tank today! It's amazing for wasting enemy turns. Yeah, I know it can still be killed by almighty, but otherwise he's almost perfect. Its only active skill is doping, making him even more tanky. I think the only thing that could make him better is samrecarm instead of haste lesson, but it was hard enough to get all these skills together.

pVgI3ti.jpg


There might be even better demons to do this with, but I'm only level 60 right now.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Kensuke said:
Made the ultimate tank today! It's amazing for wasting enemy turns. Yeah, I know it can still be killed by almighty, but otherwise he's almost perfect. Its only active skill is doping, making him even more tanky. I think the only thing that could make him better is samrecarm instead of haste lesson, but it was hard enough to get all these skills together.

pVgI3ti.jpg


There might be even better demons to do this with, but I'm only level 60 right now.
Click to expand...

That's the worst thing you can do against bosses such as Beelzebub or the Fiends.
It's an almighty spam trigger button.
 
K

Kain

Member
Welp, I ended up defeating

Beelzebub...

It was the last quest I had available and I was still at number 2 in the list, so I thought I had no choice. Turns out I'm still at number 2 but at least I killed him.

The key was luck and fusing Odin. He was basically inmortal to anything Beel threw at me, the only downside was his low life, so he couldn't survive more than two Megidolaon which it didn't cast. That and its spell to lower the life of everyone to one failed on Flynn when the boss was at 25%, so I started summoning fresh demons and managed to defeat it wit the last demon I had (a stock Cerberus I bought just in case).

Anyway, it was pure luck, so yeah, it's bad design.

And now I just found out (via Gamefaqs) that there are a couple more photograph quests I skipped, I've completed them and still haven't met the requirements, so I don't know what the fuck else to do except walk around and scout every single fucking demon to try and get more quests.

That's not good design however you want to look at it.
 
D

Dascu

Member
Kain said:
Welp, I ended up defeating

Beelzebub...

It was the last quest I had available and I was still at number 2 in the list, so I thought I had no choice. Turns out I'm still at number 2 but at least I killed him.

The key was luck and fusing Odin. He was basically inmortal to anything Beel threw at me, the only downside was his low life, so he couldn't survive more than two Megidolaon which it didn't cast. That and its spell to lower the life of everyone to one failed on Flynn when the boss was at 25%, so I started summoning fresh demons and managed to defeat it wit the last demon I had (a stock Cerberus I bought just in case).

Anyway, it was pure luck, so yeah, it's bad design.

And now I just found out (via Gamefaqs) that there are a couple more photograph quests I skipped, I've completed them and still haven't met the requirements, so I don't know what the fuck else to do except walk around and scout every single fucking demon to try and get more quests.

That's not good design however you want to look at it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, non-Hunter Association quests being mandatory is really shitty. Make it easy on yourself and use a FAQ/walkthrough.
 
K

Kain

Member
Dascu said:
Yeah, non-Hunter Association quests being mandatory is really shitty. Make it easy on yourself and use a FAQ/walkthrough.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I searched a little more and turns out I have to do more quests involving

Nozomi to get her final one and meet the requeriments.

Damn this is exhausting...
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Kensuke said:
Made the ultimate tank today! It's amazing for wasting enemy turns. Yeah, I know it can still be killed by almighty, but otherwise he's almost perfect. Its only active skill is doping, making him even more tanky. I think the only thing that could make him better is samrecarm instead of haste lesson, but it was hard enough to get all these skills together.

pVgI3ti.jpg


There might be even better demons to do this with, but I'm only level 60 right now.
Click to expand...

Haste Lesson is kind of pointless in this situation. Invitation would be better, but it probably requires a lot of SP.

And yeah, make sure not to use this demon on certain bosses. Almighty spam is real.

EDIT: You don't need Life Surge either, so maybe Invitation coupled with an SP healing skill.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
So I just made to
Hall of Eternity
Based on what some of you have written, Neutral is prob. the weakest of the paths? I think I'll do Chaos last in this case.
 
D

danthefan

Member
Sigh, getting absolutely stomped by
Medusa.
Looked at the guide on GameFAQs and it says she doesn't have much of an offence... What?
 
R

R.I.P

Member
Made it to
blasted tokyo
today, really loving both the atmosphere and music as they remind me of Chrono Trigger's 2300 A.D.
 
K

Kensuke

Member
Nimby said:
Haste Lesson is kind of pointless in this situation. Invitation would be better, but it probably requires a lot of SP.

And yeah, make sure not to use this demon on certain bosses. Almighty spam is real.

EDIT: You don't need Life Surge either, so maybe Invitation coupled with an SP healing skill.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I might replace Haste Lesson with Mabufudyne. Invitation would be cool, but you can only get that from level 70+ demons, I'm not there yet.

I didn't know bosses spam almighty if you have a demon like this in your party, oh well. I don't think Life Surge is useless though. Combined with doping he should be able to survive even if the almighty attacks do start coming.
 
W

walnuts

Member
I almost met
Yuriko, the Black Samurai
, and now I think I will make the alignment decision soon.

I will choose Chaos!!
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
Kensuke said:
Yeah, I might replace Haste Lesson with Mabufudyne. Invitation would be cool, but you can only get that from level 70+ demons, I'm not there yet.

I didn't know bosses spam almighty if you have a demon like this in your party, oh well. I don't think Life Surge is useless though. Combined with doping he should be able to survive even if the almighty attacks do start coming.
Click to expand...

Life Surge is always good.
I recommend having Draconic Reaction instead of Haste Lesson if you want to play on avoiding attacks. It adds something like 30% of agility.
Since this is a tank, prefer using Samarcarn over Invitation because Invitation doesn't work on MC. Even better than Samarcarn, Healing Knowhow is a fantastic support skill that gives your demon the ability to use healing items.

And yeah, Almighty spam is a nasty thing especially when it's Matador or Red Rider who does it. Suffering 3 Antichthon in arow attacks isn't fun and there is no way to survive that even with a 1800 HP demon.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Seem I reached the final boss(es)
sAVEd just before fighting Lucifer, should be easy enough, but can I have both Reflect magic and reflect phys barriers up at the ame time?
Also, what can u take with you in a NG+?
 
K

Korigama

Member
Tizoc said:
So I just made to
Hall of Eternity
Based on what some of you have written, Neutral is prob. the weakest of the paths? I think I'll do Chaos last in this case.
Click to expand...
By no means. The exact opposite, really. Weakest is reserved for Law, and if you count it, the Nothingness ending.
 
I

Inquisitive_Ghost

Member
Tizoc said:
Seem I reached the final boss(es)
sAVEd just before fighting Lucifer, should be easy enough, but can I have both Reflect magic and reflect phys barriers up at the ame time?
Also, what can u take with you in a NG+?
Click to expand...

I think that only works in Nocturne.

NG+
gives you the option of carrying over everything--level, items, money, etc.--or just the compendium.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Dascu said:
His barriers do not reflect all kinds of magic. Pay attention.
Click to expand...

Yup, Allmighty can't be reflected it seems, that or if it is Almighty+status effect type spell.

Well I just beat the game on the
Law path
Time for NG+
 
J

jgminto

Member
I just reached (neutral route spoilers)
Purgatorium and boy this is something. I had no idea what I was doing in the gravity switching section but I somehow made it to the door.
 
D

Dascu

Member
Tizoc said:
Yup, Allmighty can't be reflected it seems, that or if it is Almighty+status effect type spell.

Well I just beat the game on the
Law path
Time for NG+
Click to expand...
Well, there's also
the fact that his barrier has a certain colour that represents its weakness when he casts it. Blue means you can use Bufu, Red means you can use Agi, etc.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
So I'm at
Merkabah
and I suppose it's over soon. Game is a little short-ish at 36 hours but I had a blast with it. Not quite Strange Journey calibre though.
 
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