The Shogun
Banned
I just find a discussion about a shirt with cartoon girls on it pointless.
What exactly is the problem? Its an ugly shirt? If someone is offended by that thing he's wearing I don't even know how to relate or understand it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
'Shirtstorm' Leads To Apology From European Space Scientist
- Thread starter richiek
- Start date
- Status
I just find a discussion about a shirt with cartoon girls on it pointless.
What exactly is the problem? Its an ugly shirt? If someone is offended by that thing he's wearing I don't even know how to relate or understand it.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
The human is a complex test subject, it doesn't reveal the secrets of its inner processes lightly, nor it always seems rational.
The Shogun getting this worked up........over people unhappy about a shirt.
Dear lord almighty I have seen it all. I honestly think we're to the point where people actively look for things to be offended by. The pushback maybe went too far but so what? They're tired of structural inequalities?
There's all kinds of real world problems out there and instead he is wasting his time bitching at each other over........caring about different things than him.
It's gross because it's so trashy. There's nothing at all wrong with being attracted to women who look like that, and there's nothing wrong with women looking like that. But putting that on a shirt, in public, in a professional setting is weird.
It's like talking about porn with coworkers. Shit's gross.
The Shogun
Banned
Haha you know what......I'll give you that one. Fair play and I was being a bit hypocritical about the situation eh? Solid call out and one I probably deserve.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Been thinking about this for a while, see so many smart people on gaf, but jabs seem to come from both sides.
Take James Joyce for instance, I have read most of his work except for Finnegans wake which I just read at random cos I can only dig out spanish/English word play.
Or Gasper Noe, whose camera work I admire but aside from that is there more that is deeper.
Thoughts?
Edit: hilarious I meant to make this a thread but I messed up. Too throwed.
Take James Joyce for instance, I have read most of his work except for Finnegans wake which I just read at random cos I can only dig out spanish/English word play.
Or Gasper Noe, whose camera work I admire but aside from that is there more that is deeper.
Thoughts?
Edit: hilarious I meant to make this a thread but I messed up. Too throwed.
freenudemacusers
Member
the late 90s were a dark time for everyone
The Shogun
Banned
A bit off topic but I think everyone believes they are a little bit smarter or wiser than they really are. Sometimes you need others to bring you back down to reality and those that can be humble and learn from it will learn and grow the most.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
I am kind of pissed by post is being framed as if I'm a card carrying MRA type. I honestly just loved seeing a dude wear goofy ass clothing at such a formal event. Could have been a zebra striped hat for all I care, I liked the absurdity of it all and was surprised it got this response.
I'm really perplexed as to how split this thread is about whether or not the shirt is offensive. It's even stranger to excuse the the content of the shirt just because a woman made it. It's clear that:
- You can be casually sexist without knowing it simply because:
- you've never been made aware of your actions
- it's acceptable behavior in your social circle
- No one is saying she can't make the shirt or that he can't ever wear it, but there are contextual differences between wearing a shirt with that imagery when you're at home vs at work.
- At home, there's no statement to be made, especially if his wife made it. They simply enjoy the artwork and think nothing of it (yet, thinking nothing of it is precisely why this is an issue)
- At work, you're representing the company and yourself, even if you aren't aware of the ramifications. Sure, it's not intentional, but that doesn't mean other people won't assume this to be the case.
- Women in STEM is a very real issue and this doesn't help the perception that STEM jobs are ignorant of recognizing casual sexism. The dismissiveness of many of the posters in this thread exemplify how casual sexism persists simply because it's reduced the whole discussion to: "it's just a t-shirt." Books must be "just paper."
- No one deserves unnecessary bullying, especially when they've apologized for recognizing the issue. But cutting through all of that extraneous conversation still reveals that there's a very real issue at the core.
- Even women can be uneducated about feminism.
What irks me most about the whole situation is that...
It's an issue that deserves at most a tap on the shoulder; hey, so that shirt was kinda dumb, blah blah blah.
Point given, point taken.
Instead we get this public shaming shit going down that's caused major stress, with people getting unfocused about the reason that the press was there in the first place (major, epic human achievement. Have you seen the goddamn flight path that thing took?).
Maybe its the tools of the age we live in... they're just hamfisted and unwieldly communication tools that create ridiculous levels of noise over triviality. It's not wrong to be irked by the naieve assumptions that in totality make up the cultural background noise in which these issues are framed... but there's something very wrong with the broader issue when millions of human hours are traded off the basis of a somewhat poor wardrobe choice in the context of the situation.
To be fair, I'm right here in the muck; but this is more of a meta-criticism of the nature of internet discourse and criticism than it is about the shirt (for or against)...
Khaos_Knight
Banned
This man is more intelligent than 98% of the people on this planet. He shouldn't have to apologize for having a tacky sense of fashion.
Corronchilejano
Member
Internet be interneting. I understand why some people might find the shirt a bit tacky... but come on, deserving of its own tag and even pushing the guy to apologize for it? Absurd.
Intelligence doesn't give you a free pass.
plasmawave
Banned
Long rant coming up. Sorry.
I've been getting incredibly upset at this whole debacle over the past day or so. Looking at the events here's what I think happened. The guy wears a kind of awesome, kind of tacky shirt to work in order to bring attention to a friend who helped get him to this point. He wore the shit as a shout out to the woman who made it. I don't think he ever thought it would have this kind of response.
Of course there was a response. A number of people criticized the shirt as being sexist, and this quickly spread, with a number of people getting unreasonably upset at the guy, calling him a bearded asshole and misogynist. The Verge capitalizes on this for, lets be frank, money and the whole thing gets even more ridiculously blown out of proportion. Then to pile on top of the absolute shit that went down that day the people who criticized Matt had death threats thrown their way, in an attempt of the internet saying "just fuck everything".
Personally I blame everyone except for Matt for this whole affair. He genuinely seems like a good dude who made a small misstep with no intention to hurt anyone.This should have been a goddamn non issue. We just landed a probe on a comet seven million miles away, and this is the kind of shit that gets brought up. REALLY?!?
Maybe he shouldn't have worn the shirt on national television, because it may be seen as unprofessional. But the response to this whole thing is ludicrous, and it turns one of the most amazing events of human history into a goddamn shitshow. The writers getting unreasonably upset over a guy wearing a tacky shirt should be ashamed of themselves for making assumptions they had no right to make. The verge should be ashamed of themselves for taking the issue and milking it for clicks, and the people making death threats should be fucking ashamed of themselves. God dammit people.
TLDR; this whole goddamn thing is a mess, and should have never even been an issue.
I've been getting incredibly upset at this whole debacle over the past day or so. Looking at the events here's what I think happened. The guy wears a kind of awesome, kind of tacky shirt to work in order to bring attention to a friend who helped get him to this point. He wore the shit as a shout out to the woman who made it. I don't think he ever thought it would have this kind of response.
Of course there was a response. A number of people criticized the shirt as being sexist, and this quickly spread, with a number of people getting unreasonably upset at the guy, calling him a bearded asshole and misogynist. The Verge capitalizes on this for, lets be frank, money and the whole thing gets even more ridiculously blown out of proportion. Then to pile on top of the absolute shit that went down that day the people who criticized Matt had death threats thrown their way, in an attempt of the internet saying "just fuck everything".
Personally I blame everyone except for Matt for this whole affair. He genuinely seems like a good dude who made a small misstep with no intention to hurt anyone.This should have been a goddamn non issue. We just landed a probe on a comet seven million miles away, and this is the kind of shit that gets brought up. REALLY?!?
Maybe he shouldn't have worn the shirt on national television, because it may be seen as unprofessional. But the response to this whole thing is ludicrous, and it turns one of the most amazing events of human history into a goddamn shitshow. The writers getting unreasonably upset over a guy wearing a tacky shirt should be ashamed of themselves for making assumptions they had no right to make. The verge should be ashamed of themselves for taking the issue and milking it for clicks, and the people making death threats should be fucking ashamed of themselves. God dammit people.
TLDR; this whole goddamn thing is a mess, and should have never even been an issue.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I don't know how people don't see this. I think it just has to do with everyone thinking the things they've always thought are right, without any examination of the dissonance going on. Gamergate got ridiculous enough that people examined the situation more.
JJDinomite
Banned
You are so intolerant. Go back to gamergate
I think it's unfortunate that the issue has him centered around it, but remove him from the chaos and it's still an issue. In fact, that's what should be happening because there was obviously no ill intent.
Now, I haven't read the vitriol surrounding the him (this thread is the first I've heard of this) so the damage may have already been done, but it's far from a non-issue outside of the unjustified personal attacks. The focus of the conversation shouldn't really be about him as an individual at this point, just how easily sexism can sneak into the workplace regardless of intention. That society overlooks small issues like this without understanding that it is a symptom of a bigger problem.
PeskyToaster
Member
This internet outrage is going to become the boy who cried wolf. When a real thing happens no one will be there to give a shit.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
People have said this for decades.
blame space
Banned
i want that dragon ball shirt
JJDinomite
Banned
Has the shirt been burned yet?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
To wear a shirt with women on it? Smh. Some of you are acting as if he wore a shirt with racial epithets or appearing in black face.
I'm sure most women don't have a problem with constantly being depicted in media and society as a whole as scantily clad sex objects.
How is he being intolerant?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Because 'WOMEN' are being depicted in that t-shirt... really now... man I'm glad I don't know folks who doesn't see someone wearing a shirt with images of women as being reflective of them.
Sure, the issue of representation of women in STEM is pretty big. I'm getting my degree in Astrophysics, so this issue means a lot to me. The university that I go to has a 2:1 guy to girl ratio, and that's after YEARS of the school attempting to improve it. The issue still has a long way to go, but you don't go around solving it by making a scandal out of a shirt.
JJDinomite
Banned
He's implying that this isn't a real problem
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think a lot of you are more at odds with The Verge's chosen tone than feminists here.
Dice//
Banned
And it's just kinda unprofessional looking.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
If it was just 'unfprofessional' that people took issue with folks wouldn't be making accusastions about him, bringing in the sexism, the way women are treated, etc. So please let's not act like that's the problem that folks have.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
THIS isn't a real problem. THIS event has been dramtasized so folks have something to be angry about. THIS isn't a real problem and by calling it a real problem you're reducing the significance of the actual problems that do exist when it comes to the representation and treatment of women in STEM industries.
would you wear a ninja turtles shirt similar to the dbz shirts? serious question.
JJDinomite
Banned
THIS is why there aren't women in STEM, though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its unprofessional because of its sexist overtones. Seriously, I work in just about the most casual office environment you can imagine. My supervisor routinely comes to work in t-shirts, a woman I work with has large visible tattoos on her arms and down her back. No-one in our office would ever wear something like that because everyone knows it could make other female employees uncomfortable.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How would people become aware of this if we weren't told about it and given examples of where we can improve?
The guy himself has tearfully apologized for this. I don't understand those of you dismissing both him and everyone with any opinions on this to talk at us about what you think we should all be looking at instead.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Because people wear shirts? Ok buddy. And in terms of professional attire, my career requires I show up in a suit and tie daily for work. I'm quite familiar with what is and isn't acceptable to wear but to make this anything ANYTHING other than poor choice of clothing for work is ridiculous.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Because there's a cultural association of STEM as a "boys club"
He's implying that one quirky scientist's 'babes' shirt isn't a problem. And he's right. Most other scientists wear non-descript clothing. If just one oddball dissuades you from entering an entire field, you've got far greater problems than a tacky shirt.
obvious sarcastic comment isn't obvious?
And I thought it was the lack of encouragement at a young age, but it's t-shirts all along.
Honestly I think this is more of a symptom then the reason.
Dice//
Banned
Let's not act like his attire is perfectly A-OK either. As a representative of his field it was a bad choice of clothing to wear on very-public television and you keep playing it up like it isn't. But it's not really about that, I accept this instance as a lapse of judgment in more palatable fashion choice (and that shirt is tacky). But how is a woman supposed to feel about seeing people wearing or seeing this kind of stuff? Not just on him, but in general, is the sexualization of women either helpful or a good visual to send out?
I don't agree with the scandal or how it's people are transforming this into a witch hunt, but it's still a perfect example of casual, unintentional objectification of women. The reality that it's a t-shirt from a fashion-eccentric-minded scientist who doesn't hold the viewpoint that his clothing may represent is why it is.
Serious question. Do you think he shed tears because he realized what a horrible thing he had done by wearing a shirt handmade for him by a friend, or because he was shamed into it by a global twitter mob?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Have you not read this posters comments in this thread?
Beerman462
Member
Yeah, Ok. I would wager that people like Kim Kardasian have more to do with women not being in STEM than a tacky shirt.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
If a woman is going to choose to not enter a career because of a T-shirt then she probably shouldn't be in said career to begin with. I mean for crying out loud. It's apparent that this is another case of the internet trying to find something to get self righteous about.
A shirt. Wow.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked