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'Shirtstorm' Leads To Apology From European Space Scientist
- Thread starter richiek
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charlequin
Banned
I am a computer programmer! I work at a super laid back company with what could only be described as a generous dress code and HR standard, and yet people have still gotten talked to for wearing obviously inappropriate clothing, because it is obviously inappropriate.
But... asking for an apology after which you forgive and forget is the single least demanding reaction you can have to someone doing something wrong. Like, this is actually what we teach little kids because it's the simplest, least disruptive way to resolve interpersonal issues with the fewest long-term consequences. I wouldn't agree at all with someone who wanted him to be fired, or even seriously censured, or who would want to dredge this up for all eternity to make sure the guy can never live it down. But an apology is a pretty small consequence all things considered!
I've seen articles that have (rightfully) criticized his bosses and HR department for letting this happen, and I don't think it's reasonable to criticize his peers for potentially feeling uncomfortable bringing it up.
I would agree it's not productive to make assertions like "he's a sexist asshole" or whatever, because a) is he? who knows? and b) it's not relevant at all to the actual topic, which is how regardless of one's personal beliefs or intentions it is an error to wear a shirt like that while you're representing a big scientific organization on TV.
adamsappel
Member
What is the affirmation to? I'll assume you mean it would be less offensive.
I'll answer that I think some of the people on both sides might be switching views. I think some of the people who think it's sexist and misogynistic might give a man or woman wearing a Cowboy Studs shirt some slack (as you are?). I think some who feel it's all in fun might have a problem with shirts of bare-chested muscular men in denim chaps in the office. I don't find the shirt offensive, but it was certainly inappropriate for work.
Barring some Internet-detective work that finds out the scientist is a shitbag, I feel bad for the guy. He doesn't strike me as macho and bullying. He might have even knowingly worn the shirt to help out his friend. "Oh, this cool shirt? My friend designed it." He could suffer from social miscues. Does European STEM have the same problem with female representation? Are Europeans less offended by this?
I linked earlier to a Hawaiian shirt company that makes shirts using prints like this: https://www.alohaland.com/pinup-girls-guys. The shirt using that pattern is now sold out.
Again, it's not about intent, it's about this shirt is just part of a whole that contributes to sexism and discouragement for women to enter the STEM fields. I'm not out for the guy's blood, but I'm sick of people ignoring the ramifications this shirt represents in the field. I'm more against those people than this guy.
And honestly, "super-feminist" just sounds really dismissive. Sure, it's a shame the comet landing isn't getting as much attention, but I feel like there's more of an attitude of "just shut up and enjoy the comet" rather than "let's learn from this mistake so we don't have these kinds of distractions in the future."
John Kowalski
Banned
Shit, can't resist an invitation breh.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Pretty much. It's just folks trying to be mad for the sake of being mad.
IT'S A SHIRT! A shirt with scantly clothed women OH MY GOODNESS THE HUMANITY.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
I think that changing the situation to a hypothetical involving a woman wearing a top covered with drawings of shirtless men is missing the context that women are currently disproportionately marginalised in STEM fields much more so than men (ie. we're already living in a world that tells women and girls in many subtle - and sometimes not so subtle - ways that the world of tech is not for them), so it's not quite equivalent. Personally, I do not think such a T-shirt is appropriate for the workplace though, regardless of who wears it.
freenudemacusers
Member
It's not a tshirt dammit !!
You're next buddy!
charlequin
Banned
Inasmuch as an organization completing an impressive aerospace feat like this is representing the scientific establishment as a whole (and don't try to tell me it's not, given the way people always use these feats as a stand-in for why science is cool) then plenty of people on the team (i.e. other aerospace scientists) are upset at him. That's where this whole thing came from -- not randos, but female aerospace scientists being annoyed that while they were watching coverage of this sweet achievement it got interrupted by someone clueless wearing an inappropriate shirt.
I don't think I'll be doing that, thanks.
Yes.
lol it took me a min to figure out what it was.
The ramifications are... we would rather bitch at each other over small meaningless trangressions than consider the extraordinary achievement been made.
That we demand that we march in lock step with some facist ideal of progressiveness then to allow for individual differences.
Shit like this ultimately does nothing to win new people into the progressive camps - only serves to galvanize and victimize. Bullshit of the highest order.
Sure thing, buddy:
The last one is pretty telling, but sure its me that is trying to turn this into a big issue when so far most of the salt witnessed in this thread is coming from people mad at the apology, once again, I love the irony about people complaining about how society overreacts while making several posts showing that you obviously care and you obviously have an stance even tho you do your best by disguise it as apathy. Stay projecting, bros.
Edit: Also this username:
Its a pretty common slur for homosexual pretty similar to "faggot" used in Argentina, but hey, I guess homosexuals should just grow a thicker skin and leave this be.
The Shogun
Banned
Humanity getting this worked up........over a shirt.
Dear lord almighty I have seen it all. I honestly think were to the point where people actively look for things to be offended by. The shirt is ugly but so what? He liked it? It shows *gasp* scantily clad cartoon ladies on it.
There's all kinds of real world problems out there and instead we are wasting our time bitching at each other over........printed fabric.
Dear lord almighty I have seen it all. I honestly think were to the point where people actively look for things to be offended by. The shirt is ugly but so what? He liked it? It shows *gasp* scantily clad cartoon ladies on it.
There's all kinds of real world problems out there and instead we are wasting our time bitching at each other over........printed fabric.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Yep. It's embarrassing.
People love to talk rather than take action.
Big moral issues that are clear cut doesn't really lead to much talking. There's nothing much to discuss.
But small 'moral' issues that aren't clear cut... man people LOVE to bicker about that shit - try to win over to their side so that they can feel that rush of endorphins... from 'winning' or 'dominating'.
Doesn't matter which side you're fighting for; that's one of the underlying motivations for most human activity...
FrostuTheNinja
Member
*wildly punches the air*
On topic, I feel bad for the dude. I bet cold, hard cash that when he got up that morning he said, "I'll wear my babe shirt. Yeah, chicks with laser guns. Pew pew!"
He should wear a lab coat for the rest of his life just to play it safe.
Dice//
Banned
Is it? On one hand I DO think it's a vulgar and silly portrayal of women and a bad look for a professional to be wearing to a televised event. But I think raising girls to be invited and interested in science (or idolizing a female role model scientist) will have more effect than a stupid shirt some guy wore once. I doubt it'll be the shirt that turns them off from the field as much as numerous other barriers also contributing into that as well. I'm not saying it isn't a bad shirt, I'm with you, it is and I'd hate it if anybody wore it for both feminist reasons, professional reasons, and, hell, even fashion ones --- but I doubt this is the be all and end all of the lack of women in scientific fields when the dialogue on that is far from simple. I actually think television dramas can help by making men and women much more equally represented in shows and films; more male nurses and secretaries, and more female soldiers, or even a similar ratio and balance in advertisements. That's one way, anyways.
EDIT: certainly there's also a lot of trivialization going on in this thread too that's also driving me a bit nuts.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
What's the formal wear version of that shirt?
freenudemacusers
Member
Tuxedo t shirt with chrome balls and donkey sauce.
Yes, this is so friggin annoying and it always happens in these threads.
And there's another problem. Science is evil. Its filled with Sagan worshipers.
]
made in america too
This is one is kinda hype
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
I need the proper highball with my tuxedo shirt and Paul Smith cufflinks.
You don't think a shirt covered in hundreds of bikini'd women is tacky? Not at all?
I don't even
So much handwaiving. No one have a discussion, there are more "important" things to talk about everyone.
freenudemacusers
Member
women get to wear skirts and heels, we get the tacky big johnson tees and allover print spacebabe hawaiian shirts.
I'm pretty sure that was the only reason he was in the movie.
captmorgan
Banned
To be fair I have seen alot of tank tops that say "My boyfriends wife hates me"
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Not to be rude, but I don't think you represent the left.
plasmawave
Banned
Ask Don Cherry.
It's possible to be apathetic about the shirt and also not apathetic about the response to the shirt. Crying misogyny and basically going on a witch hunt is not something that should become normal for things like this.
Eteric Rice
Member
The dude just helped land a fucking machine on a comet and people are up in arms about his shirt?
What the fuck? It's tacky, yeah, but Jesus Christ, it's not that big of a deal. I've seen worse.
He shouldn't have to apologize. He can wear what he wants. Fuck.
What the fuck? It's tacky, yeah, but Jesus Christ, it's not that big of a deal. I've seen worse.
He shouldn't have to apologize. He can wear what he wants. Fuck.
Dice//
Banned
To be fair, I condemn dumb shirts for both sexes as well. The "I drink male tears" shirt is stupid too on top of the one this topic's about.
I remmeber seeing a few kids wearing this too.
Literally I ask the simplest thing: Can't we just play nice and respect both sexes? It ain't that hard... or it shouldn't be, but....
Yeah I hate this kind of attitute. Telling people to not be sad or offended because other people have it worse is a poor and simple line of reasoning (should I be less happy because someone else's happiness is better?). I agree with Instro and JDSN too. Too much hand-waiving and people pretending to be apathetic.
Arozay
Member
The invention of shirts in 1983 really ruined everything
Well, yeah I haven't been elected to any position.
and I guess I've just been lying in every election I've voted in.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Macuser you are the messiah of fashion, how did those DBZ shirts come to be? I mean, who green lit that style?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
This is what you said
Gross and tacky are two different words with two different meanings.
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