Support NeoGAF

[honorless]

What else rubs you the wrong way?

Not sure I should shit up the thread with negative vibes and start a derail full of people arguing over my opinions, so if you're really interested in hearing it I guess I could PM you...

Anyway, re-reading the comment it looks like the other $5 could be going toward the development required to integrate Steamworks features. That could be non-trivial depending upon how the game is being written.

 

[zroid]

Not sure I should shit up the thread with negative vibes and start a derail full of people arguing over my opinions, so if you're really interested in hearing it I guess I could PM you...

I was just curious if it was like a general Kickstarter thing, or something specific regarding this campaign. No big deal, though!

 

[Hero]

Sorry, your joke was too real. The Greenlight thread is currently a mess.

It's okay, I should've been more obvious about it. It's funny since I talked to the devs at PAX East specifically regarding Steam Greenlight. Fun conversation.

Also totally remembered that they told me they were going to try for a level that was based on the Star Road level in Super Mario World where you use the spin jump to constantly break the yellow blocks and just constantly go down the level until you hit the bottom. Sounds like a fun level to me.

 

[morningbus]

They responded in the comments:

While a very limited number of keys are provided for for promotional reasons, there are extra costs involved when obtaining large amounts of codes in bulk. This also goes towards the development of Steam integration and specific features.

I was hoping for a less bullshit answer. Sorry guys, I'll buy your game when it hits Steam.

 

[Salsa]

yeah, that answer sounds like all kinds of BS. Shame

 

[wrowa]

Well, maybe they changed their policy? Developers are giving so many Steam keys away that it's only a question of time until Valve feels like people are making use of their system without paying them for it.

 

[Hero]

They responded in the comments:


I was hoping for a less bullshit answer. Sorry guys, I'll buy your game when it hits Steam.

Wait, how is it a bullshit answer unless you think they're lying?

 

[Salsa]

Update #14: Paypal, and our Art Process, Revealed!

I backed it a while ago and am really happy how's it doing.
Would have loved to take the soundtrack right away with my reward, but well, so I will buy it afterwards.

oh cool, finally

paypal page is down tho

 

[SloaneRisette]

Just curious, and maybe this has been asked in the thread already, so if it has been, apologies. But if I were to put down $30, would I be able to get a copy for Wii U and 3DS?

 

[Salsa]

is the game gonna be more than $15 when it's out?

 

[SloaneRisette]

is the game gonna be more than $15 when it's out?

Looking at the Kickstarter, $10 for PC and $15 for 3DS/Wii U

 

[Hero]

Just curious, and maybe this has been asked in the thread already, so if it has been, apologies. But if I were to put down $30, would I be able to get a copy for Wii U and 3DS?

Yes, a 15 dollar level will get you either Wii U or 3DS and you can add-on another 15 dollar donation for an additional download key for Wii U or 3DS (or Steam if its successfully greenlit).

Edit:

In regards to cost of the game at launch I believe they said they would aim around the 10 dollar level but things could change from here on out.

 

[zroid]

They also suggested the actual price on Wii U/3DS would more likely be $10 than $15.

 

[morningbus]

Wait, how is it a bullshit answer unless you think they're lying?

They aren't lying, but they're bending the truth on some of it. The "limited promotional keys" is a restriction of the consoles, not Steam. So on that count, they may be simply uninformed.

But then they go and try and dismiss it outright saying it's paying for Steamworks integration, which, while work, is nowhere on the same level of work as a Wii U or 3DS port. Steam achievements can literally be implemented in a day.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Yes, a 15 dollar level will get you either Wii U or 3DS and you can add-on another 15 dollar donation for an additional download key for Wii U or 3DS (or Steam if its successfully greenlit).

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Glass Rebel]

I was going to get it for 3DS and double-dip (and gift) on the Steam version anyway but this leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth as it completely goes against what we know. I hope it's a honest mistake/misunderstanding and not BS on YCG's part.

 

[Salsa]

Looking at the Kickstarter, $10 for PC and $15 for 3DS/Wii U

so basically the game is gonna be $10 on Steam when it's out, but if I want to eventually get a Steam copy right now I have to pay $15?

so essentially pre-ordering is.. more expensive?


I get that backing a game and making it possible is an extra incentive, but.. that's not gonna fly with most people

 

[MicH]

Regarding the 3DS/Wii U codes from backing $15. Do we know if they will be sending out EU codes as well? Or only US?

 

[SloaneRisette]

so basically the game is gonna be $10 on Steam when it's out, but if I want to eventually get a Steam copy right now I have to pay $15?

so essentially pre-ordering is.. more expensive?


I get that backing a game and making it possible is an extra incentive, but.. that's not gonna fly with most people

$10 is for PC, the reason they have $15 for the Nintendo ones are because they have to pay for each Nintendo download code. So with the game being $10 on Steam, you can Kickstart now for $10.

 

[Hero]

They aren't lying, but they're bending the truth on some of it. The "limited promotional keys" is a restriction of the consoles, not Steam. So on that count, they may be simply uninformed.

But then they go and try and dismiss it outright saying it's paying for Steamworks integration, which, while work, is nowhere on the same level of work as a Wii U or 3DS port. Steam achievements can literally be implemented in a day.

I think it's kind of silly to draw a line in the sand for an indie game over something you don't know the answer to.

Even in the worst case scenario what you said is true, time is money. For bigger developers I'm sure the work is nothing in the grand scheme of things but the team is what, six members strong or so and all of them are wearing multiple hats in terms of roles/jobs any additional work is more time they have to put in and less time they could be doing something else.

 

[Gbraga]

I can understand the Steam integration part, but isn't that part of the budget for the game? It makes no sense to charge that just from people interested in the Steam version. Otherwise every game should cost more on Steam, which is not the case.

If Valve charges $5 for every steam key generated, can't they just say that?

 

[morningbus]

$10 is for PC, the reason they have $15 for the Nintendo ones are because they have to pay for each Nintendo download code. So with the game being $10 on Steam, you can Kickstart now for $10.

No, YCG is currently saying it is $15 for a Steam code and $10 for a DRM-free PC download.

I think it's kind of silly to draw a line in the sand for an indie game over something you don't know the answer to.

Even in the worst case scenario what you said is true, time is money. For bigger developers I'm sure the work is nothing in the grand scheme of things but the team is what, six members strong or so and all of them are wearing multiple hats in terms of roles/jobs.

But... I do know the answer. They're already making a PC version. We're talking about adding in steam achievements and cloud saving. They are both trivial additions that can take one person a single day to implement.

If Valve charges $5 for every steam key generated, can't they just say that?

They can't say that because Valve doesn't.

 

[Salsa]

$10 is for PC, the reason they have $15 for the Nintendo ones are because they have to pay for each Nintendo download code. So with the game being $10 on Steam, you can Kickstart now for $10.

oh, I was under the impression that $10 would get me a DRM-free copy and that $15 would give me a steam key?

edit: beaten

 

[BY2K]

I can give money through PayPal now?

Excellent news!

 

[zroid]

IMO, you're paying $5 less for the better version. :U

Spoiler

but that's just me

 

[Salsa]

yeah, im all about this game but if for some weird-ass shady reason you're charging me $5 more to pre-order a game that will be $10 on release on Steam then i'll just wait, because the "excuse" doesnt sit right with me.

whole idea to encourage people to donate to your game should be the fact that you could get it for cheaper than when it actually comes out. Not the other way around.

Specially when the core game is already funded.

 

[morningbus]

yeah, im all about this game but if for some weird-ass shady reason you're charging me $5 more to pre-order a game that will be $10 on release on Steam then i'll just wait, because the "excuse" doesnt sit right with me.

Exactly. This is where I'm at too.

They don't need my money at this point, so i'll just wait to pick it up where I want it.

 

[Hero]

yeah, im all about this game but if for some weird-ass shady reason you're charging me $5 more to pre-order a game that will be $10 on release on Steam then i'll just wait, because the "excuse" doesnt sit right with me.

whole idea to encourage people to donate to your game should be the fact that you could get it for cheaper than when it actually comes out. Not the other way around.

You realize that this is a true start-up company and not an established publisher, right?

Not every Kickstarter is a way to get something for cheaper because you backed it. The money goes directly into making the project a reality. The majority of people that use the site know and understand this.

 

[SloaneRisette]

No, YCG is currently saying it is $15 for a Steam code and $10 for a DRM-free PC download.

Oh man, I have egg on my face, sorry about that.

 

[Salsa]

You realize that this is a true start-up company and not an established publisher, right?

Not every Kickstarter is a way to get something for cheaper because you backed it. The money goes directly into making the project a reality. The majority of people that use the site know and understand this.

sure, then give me that heartfelt response, making it clear, instead of some "we need to pay for a bulk of keys" bs with no evidence anywhere

all kickstarters need and probably deserve money, that doesnt mean that im gonna give them mine for no clear reason.


When did I say that the only reason i'd back the project would be to get it cheaper btw? I said that this is ussually the way it goes to encourage a wide audience of people.

Paying more than what the game is eventually gonna cost should be up to me if I want to, not to the base, lowest price.


"hey guys you could gives us $15 now or get it for $10 when it comes out" + questionable response on why they cant sell steam keys for base price = nono from me.

It's not like at this point the game won't come out if I dont give them my extra $5

 

[Glass Rebel]

Where does it say that the game will be 10$ at launch? Did I miss something?

 

[Het_Nkik]

That was a different scenario as the Indiegogo campaign was specifically for the DLC, which they were funding independently of their publisher. LabZero had to go back to their publisher and request the keys for the game, effectively costing the publisher its sale. The publisher gave the key to LabZero basically at cost, which is what they then charged for.

Lab Zero had to pay their publisher (Marvelous AQL) for the codes.

Oh, I see. I was listening to a tired Mike Z half explain it at midnight on a livestream.

 

[Hero]

sure, then give me that heartfelt response, making it clear, instead of some "we need to pay for a bulk of keys" bs with no evidence anywhere

all kickstarters need and probably deserve money, that doesnt mean that im gonna give them mine for no clear reason.


When did I say that the only reason i'd back the project would be to get it cheaper btw? I said that this is ussually the way it goes to encourage a wide audience of people.

Paying more than what the game is eventually gonna cost should be up to me if I want to, not to the base, lowest price.

Alright Salsa, stick it to the man. Those evil, heartless lying bastards at YCG don't deserve your 15 dollars.

Where does it say that the game will be 10$ at launch? Did I miss something?

There's two different groups, people who are mad that 10 dollars on the KS only gets you the DRM-free executable and not a Steam key and people who are mad that their target release price is going to be 10 dollars. Salsa seems to be a part of both.

In regards to the latter of the target release price going to be 10 dollars, I'm not actually sure if it's documented in any of the interviews or publicity it's getting online. I was told they're going to try for 10 dollars at release but again, we're a long time away from release and plans can change according to a lot of different things.

 

[Salsa]

Alright Salsa, stick it to the man. Those evil, heartless lying bastards at YCG don't deserve your 15 dollars.



There's two different groups, people who are mad that 10 dollars on the KS only gets you the DRM-free executable and not a Steam key and people who are mad that their target release price is going to be 10 dollars. Salsa seems to be a part of both.

what?

dude why are you attacking me as if I was saying something immediatly dismissable or laughable?

they want to charge me more than what the game is gonna be upfront, when i'd actually be helping to fund it, and they are giving me a BS reason for it.

Look a couple pages back, I love this game, I love the initiative, I love the guys involved. Im not bashing it for the sake of it nor do I think that $10 is too high? never said that

my reasoning is not hard to get dude, but if you wanna get angry as if you were making this game yourself suddenly then sure :S im not trying to "stick it up" to anyone. Im saying that charging me more for a game a year before it comes out is fucking ridiculous.

optional? sure, that's how Kickstarter works. I should be able to pledge whatever I want, but the minimal "you get the game" price should get me the game in the platform I choose considering that as far as we know that costs them nothing


I really dont get where you're coming from with that mocking. Are you even reading what im posting? or just dismissing it as some sort of troll hater?

 

[ramoisdead]

It looks like from the uproar folks have made regarding the PC/Steam issue, YGC took notice and provided this latest tweet.

"We're doing some additional Steam research. Please give us a moment. Thank you guys for being vigilant."

Hopefully something can be done to appease both parties.

 

[Glass Rebel]

There's two different groups, people who are mad that 10 dollars on the KS only gets you the DRM-free executable and not a Steam key and people who are mad that their target release price is going to be 10 dollars. Salsa seems to be a part of both.

In regards to the latter of the target release price going to be 10 dollars, I'm not actually sure if it's documented in any of the interviews or publicity it's getting online. I was told they're going to try for 10 dollars at release but again, we're a long time away from release and plans can change according to a lot of different things.

I'm waiting for a better response about the Steam keys before passing judgement but the 10$ launch price is definitely new to me. I'm not pulling my pledge necause of this and I realize that plans can change but I find it a bit worrisome that they wouldn't share this information on KS, unless I missed it somehow.

 

[Hero]

what?

dude why are you attacking me as if I was saying something immediatly dismissable or laughable?

they want to charge me more than what the game is gonna be upfront, when i'd actually be helping to fund it, and they are giving me a BS reason for it.

Look a couple pages back, I love this game, I love the initiative, I love the guys involved. Im not bashing it for the sake of it nor do I think that $10 is too high? never said that

my reasoning is not hard to get dude, but if you wanna get angry as if you were making this game yourself suddenly then sure :S

It's not your reasoning, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. Just in how I'm allowed my own opinion in that I think it's hilarious that for someone who loves the game, the initiative and the guys (and there's a girl on the team) involved but suddenly you think they're trying to swindle people out of an extra 5 dollars means you won't back the project. You said it doesn't matter if you give them your extra 5 dollars since the game is funded already anyway when that's wrong since an extra 5 dollars now helps goes towards hitting the stretch goals and ensuring that the game is even better for release.

 

[Salsa]

It's not your reasoning, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. Just in how I'm allowed my own opinion in that I think it's hilarious that for someone who loves the game, the initiative and the guys (and there's a girl on the team) involved but suddenly you think they're trying to swindle people out of an extra 5 dollars means you won't back the project. You said it doesn't matter if you give them your extra 5 dollars since the game is funded already anyway when that's wrong since an extra 5 dollars now helps goes towards hitting the stretch goals and ensuring that the game is even better for release.

I could care less about the 5 dollars, I just dont like the way (and even how lacking it is from a presentation stand point considering it's barely reflected at all on the KS page) they are presenting that. They cant say something like "oh yeah we need $5 extra for steam keys" without backing it up.

I like these guys precisely because they dont seem like the kind of guys that would purposefully pull something like that. Hence why it bothers me when it pops up. I wasnt expecting it.

It looks like they realized that tho going from that tweet, so i'll wait and see.

 

[transience]

It's not just Steam.. they've said that the eShop version is probably going to be about $10 as well.

 

[r3n4ud]

It's not your reasoning, you're perfectly entitled to your own opinion. Just in how I'm allowed my own opinion in that I think it's hilarious that for someone who loves the game, the initiative and the guys (and there's a girl on the team) involved but suddenly you think they're trying to swindle people out of an extra 5 dollars means you won't back the project. You said it doesn't matter if you give them your extra 5 dollars since the game is funded already anyway when that's wrong since an extra 5 dollars now helps goes towards hitting the stretch goals and ensuring that the game is even better for release.

Exactly. Who cares about the extra 5$. It goes towards reaching the stretch goals, which is what we want, right?

 

[Salsa]

Exactly. Who cares about the extra 5$. It goes towards reaching the stretch goals, which is what we want, right?

Be clear on what you need the money for and why it needs to be more expensive. That's all im saying.

It's totally reasonable for the Eshop stuff, but not with Steam considering that their policy explicitly says that there's no charge for keys. They actively aknowledge that as a plus of their system.

 

[r3n4ud]

Be clear on what you need the money for and why it needs to be more expensive. That's all im saying.

Sure, I agree with ya. I'm sure the team will clear it up shortly.

 

[Hero]

I could care less about the 5 dollars, I just dont like the way (and even how lacking it is from a presentation stand point considering it's barely reflected at all on the KS page) they are presenting that. They cant say something like "oh yeah we need $5 extra for steam keys" without backing it up.

I like these guys precisely because they dont seem like the kind of guys that would purposefully pull something like that. Hence why it bothers me when it pops up. I wasnt expecting it.

It looks like they realized that tho going from that tweet, so i'll wait and see.

Haha okay, so it went from "they're charging an extra 5 dollars for Steam keys? That's bullshit, they don't need my money anyway, will wait until releases on Steam." to "Now that it appears maybe YCG was confused or had misinformation regarding the Steam Greenlight process and it's a human mistake I will pretend to be patient and wait and see for the results."

Be clear on what you need the money for and why it needs to be more expensive. That's all im saying.

I like how you still don't get that you are backing the campaign so the project can be funded and made available. I don't see why it should matter to you why they should have to be transparent about what they think the game will wind up costing on the release. It's not a promise or a legally binding contract of sorts but you choose to draw the line in the sand over this for a team/project that you supposedly "love."

 

[Salsa]

Haha okay, so it went from "they're charging an extra 5 dollars for Steam keys? That's bullshit, they don't need my money anyway, will wait until releases on Steam." to "Now that it appears maybe YCG was confused or had misinformation regarding the Steam Greenlight process and it's a human mistake I will pretend to be patient and wait and see for the results."



I like how you still don't get that you are backing the campaign so the project can be funded and made available. I don't see why it should matter to you why they should have to be transparent about what they think the game will wind up costing on the release. It's not a promise or a legally binding contract of sorts but you choose to draw the line in the sand over this for a team/project that you supposedly "love."

uh

they posted a tweet saying that they are looking into the steam thing, why wouldnt I then give them a chance to rectify?

what the hell are you even talking about dude

it's kickstarter, they are asking money from people, they should be clear on why some options are more expensive than others

how could you even possibly spin this? im genuinely baffled


you're whole argument is "but they need money! you are helping them! you should carelessly throw money at them because they are making this cool game!"

no dude, I wanna know where my money is going and why suddenly i'd have to pay more for something that doesnt cost them anything

but sure, im a bad guy now because my "love" for the game doesnt extend to giving them more money than the people who'll buy it in a regular way :|


edit: I also like how you imply that I suddenly "dont understand" kickstarter?

 

[Gbraga]

Exactly. Who cares about the extra 5$. It goes towards reaching the stretch goals, which is what we want, right?

What's stopping me from giving more money if I want to (and can afford it)? This is not a reason for not coming clean about the $5 extra for the Steam version. That's what's bothering people, not the amount of money. I don't think there's a single person saying it doesn't deserve $15 bucks, I'm sure everyone will agree that it looks better than a lot of games we payed $50~60 for, but that doesn't justify $5 more for the Steam version by itself.

 

[jon bones]

Sounds like a mixup / misinformation on the part of the team, but some of you guys are quick to grab your pitchforks.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Sounds like a mixup / misinformation on the part of the team, but some of you guys are quick to grab your pitchforks.

Nobody is poking up pitchforks, we just want transparency and clarification about where our money goes.

 

[Salsa]

Sounds like a mixup / misinformation on the part of the team, but some of you guys are quick to grab your pitchforks.

honestly im more surprised at the defense force at the smallest sight of negativity towards the project

but that kinda comes with the territory on GAF nowadays. People treat games like relatives or something.

 

[Gbraga]

I like how you still don't get that you are backing the campaign so the project can be funded and made available.

I don't know about that, to be honest. They announced the WiiU/3DS versions after the Kickstarter was on, and the minimum amount required didn't change, it wasn't a stretch goal or anything (while Linux and MAC are), if 75k was really necessary to make the game even be a reality, they should need more to port it, no?

Not saying it's shady or anything, but if it's really just about making the game, why not ditch stretch goals entirely and use all the money (minus taxes) to the game? It could even make the minimum goal cheaper.

You're the one who's not getting that for a lot of people it's all about the rewards, not just helping people to make games. I have no shame in admitting I would not back it if I wouldn't get a copy "for free", instead I would just wait for it to come out and buy it then.

 

[Minsc]

Sounds like a mixup / misinformation on the part of the team, but some of you guys are quick to grab your pitchforks.

Shovels, pitchforks are still ~$1000 away, maybe.