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[duckroll]

Can we please stop arguing about what appears to be confusion? Here's the thing:

- They promised the game on PC DRM-free at the $10 tier.

- At a later point they added WiiU and 3DS as platforms they were committed to support, and stated that at the $15 tier and above anyone would be able to support whatever platform they wanted the game one. The key word here is platform, because WiiU and 3DS would require additional costs for them to get keys, and they can't just give them out for free.

- Somehow Steam got grouped together with WiiU and 3DS as a "platform" because business wise that's how it would be seen. It wasn't anything malicious, just a misunderstanding they're trying to clear up right now.

- If the game is indeed going to be SOLD at $10 on Steam later on (we don't even know this really, I doubt it'll be priced any differently from WiiU and 3DS), then I'm sure everyone will agree that asking backers to pay $15 for a Steam key is... not very nice.

- Yacht Club Games seem like nice people, so let's see what they have to say.

We don't have to kill each other defending companies or fall on our swords later when it appears that there was nothing to defend or whatever. It's just a game. Relax!

 

[Salsa]

- Yacht Club Games seem like nice people, so let's see what they have to say.

totes. I dont mean to come across as someone waiting for a reason to be angry about this whole thing. Main reason why it got me to react like that is precisely because they seem like good people so it caught me off guard.

Im sure there'll be an explanation soon, just a bit of a bummer if some people paid $15 instead of $10 because they thought that was the only way to get a Steam key.

 

[jon bones]

Nobody is poking up pitchforks, we just want transparency and clarification about where our money goes.

I think that's perfectly reasonable, but SalsaShark is right about people taking this stuff maybe a little too personally.

In any case, I've been sending this out to my nerd friends - hopefully one or two of them kickstart/greenlight along with me.

 

[zroid]

were you waiting in the wings to get that post at the top of the new page? :V

 

[Criminal Upper]

Man, we're talking 5$ differences here....times must be tough everywhere.

Anyway, good news! I convinced my producers at Machinima to re-run my demo playthrough with my dumb friends, so millions will be exposed to Shovel Knight, and hopefully fullfill all the stretch goals.

Should be up at 2pm pst on Wednesday.

 

[duckroll]

were you waiting in the wings to get that post at the top of the new page? :V

Nah, sometimes these things just happen. I think it would be better if the top post was the latest update tbh!

 

[TimmiT]

Backed it with $15 now that they added Paypal support. This game looks much better than most indie "8-bit" games IMO.

 

[zroid]

Nah, sometimes these things just happen. I think it would be better if the top post was the latest update tbh!

Speaking of updates, with all this dramarama I missed that we're less than $1000 from the next milestone!

 

[Whipped Spartan]

I am pumped this is on wii u. Played this at Pax East.

 

[Hero]

Can we please stop arguing about what appears to be confusion? Here's the thing:

- They promised the game on PC DRM-free at the $10 tier.

- At a later point they added WiiU and 3DS as platforms they were committed to support, and stated that at the $15 tier and above anyone would be able to support whatever platform they wanted the game one. The key word here is platform, because WiiU and 3DS would require additional costs for them to get keys, and they can't just give them out for free.

- Somehow Steam got grouped together with WiiU and 3DS as a "platform" because business wise that's how it would be seen. It wasn't anything malicious, just a misunderstanding they're trying to clear up right now.

- If the game is indeed going to be SOLD at $10 on Steam later on (we don't even know this really, I doubt it'll be priced any differently from WiiU and 3DS), then I'm sure everyone will agree that asking backers to pay $15 for a Steam key is... not very nice.

- Yacht Club Games seem like nice people, so let's see what they have to say.

We don't have to kill each other defending companies or fall on our swords later when it appears that there was nothing to defend or whatever. It's just a game. Relax!

I don't care about defending companies but people got ridiculously offended at the drop of a dime as soon as there was a possibility they were getting worked over on the Kickstarter. I'll be among the first to defend the consumer but instead of just waiting to see what YCG had to say people jumped to conclusions and all of a sudden people were talking about pulling their pledge or not bothering to Kickstart the project at all anymore.

 

[Gbraga]

Backed it with $15 now that they added Paypal support. This game looks much better than most indie "8-bit" games IMO.

It looks much better than most games, period.

DAT SHOVEL UHHHHHHH

 

[duckroll]

I don't care about defending companies but people got ridiculously offended at the drop of a dime as soon as there was a possibility they were getting worked over on the Kickstarter. I'll be among the first to defend the consumer but instead of just waiting to see what YCG had to say people jumped to conclusions and all of a sudden people were talking about pulling their pledge or not bothering to Kickstart the project at all anymore.

It's okay you know. It's a donation after all. The project is already going to make it, if someone isn't convinced enough to want to donate, so be it. Hopefully there are others. Nothing to get angry over. I think crowdfunding should be hard. Obviously I'm glad the projects I like mostly get funded. I wish Volgarr got more than it did, but sometimes projects don't find much traction.

In the end if you're asking people for money before you even have a product, I think caution is a good thing to have for everyone involved. Optimism is great, but it doesn't have to be the only perspective towards a project.

 

[Hero]

It's okay you know. It's a donation after all. The project is already going to make it, if someone isn't convinced enough to want to donate, so be it. Hopefully there are others. Nothing to get angry over. I think crowdfunding should be hard. Obviously I'm glad the projects I like mostly get funded. I wish Volgarr got more than it did, but sometimes projects don't find much traction.

In the end if you're asking people for money before you even have a product, I think caution is a good thing to have for everyone involved. Optimism is great, but it doesn't have to be the only perspective towards a project.

Sure, it's absolutely a donation. But I don't think waiting to hearing the truth of the matter is asking too much of people either. Especially for people who said they loved everything about it. There's no anger here, just disappointment that people are so quick to come to conclusions and especially over such a trivial amount.

Kickstarter threads on GAF lately seem to be volatile, especially with the recent Anita video and the Skullgirls one.

 

[Salsa]

I think classifying what was just happening as being "ridiculously offended" is quite a bit much, specially when me and everyone else were asking for clarification rather than just bashing prematurely

but hey whatevs, thread isnt here to have that kinda discussion so early so i'll shut up

 

[grimshawish]

Been interested in this game since I first saw it a few days ago; however the 'add another platform' stuff is always too willy nilly on Kickstarter, its a means to get more money from people rather than actually just fund development for that/those platforms.

Get it done then offer a second kickstarter or better yet - continue to offer pre-orders and sell the game post-launch; using the profits to develop elsewhere. Theres only so much to 'kickstart' before a project/company is self sufficient or dependent on charity.

Everyone should get their PC game at $10 though. Am sure the Steam stuff will be clarified. Unless their adding achievements/friends integration (important aspects and individual costs non-Steam users shouldn't be paying for).

Not personally sure why it needs to be on steam, is it even definetly going to be accepted on Steam?

 

[duckroll]

Sure, it's absolutely a donation. But I don't think waiting to hearing the truth of the matter is asking too much of people either. Especially for people who said they loved everything about it. There's no anger here, just disappointment that people are so quick to come to conclusions and especially over such a trivial amount.

Kickstarter threads on GAF lately seem to be volatile, especially with the recent Anita video and the Skullgirls one.

I dunno, reading through the last page or so of the thread, you seem pretty angry, or at the very least just as keen to jump to conclusions and fight people over their willingness to donate to something because of a valid and questionable thing. In fact, you weren't even telling people to wait to hear the truth of the matter earlier, you were straight up towing the line they gave and told people to accept it because they are a small developer and so the rules might be different, and accusing people of calling them liars.

Now the "truth" which has come out is that they're investigating further into this simply because people complained, and they realized they could be wrong about this. Which shows that they have more respect for their customers than you do for other people who post here. You should really calm down.

 

[jon bones]

can we all just go back to talking about how hard our dicks are for this game

 

[duckroll]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yachtclubgames/shovel-knight/posts/449171?ref=activity

Oops, Steam Adjustment! (READ EVERYONE)

Update #15 · Apr 8, 2013 · comment
Hello everyone!

One of our goals for Shovel Knight and Yacht Club Games was to be transparent and honest with you all; it was never our intention to mislead.

Kickstarter Reward Changes:

Backers who pledge $10 will continue to receive access to download the previously promised DRM free copy for all computer platforms (PC/Linux/Mac). The new addition is that this tier will now include a Steam key at no additional cost.

If you wish to only receive the PC/Steam version of the game and have previously pledged $15 then please know that you can reduce your pledge to $10 and receive all computer platform options. We were wrong about Steam! You can use the "Manage My Pledge" option on the Shovel Knight project page any time until the Kickstarter campaign has ended.

Sorry, We Were Wrong!

Another update so soon? Why, of course. We need to own up to our mistake. It seems like we were completely wrong about an aspect of Steam and the Greenlight process which impacts any one interested in a PC version of the game. We messed up and failed to do our due diligence, that's all there is to it. We were erroneously working under the assumption that the Steam version of the game would require an extra pledging amount to account for the cost of obtaining keys while still contributing to the development of the game. According to the Steam Greenlight FAQ, and many of your past experiences with similar projects, this is certainly not the case. This is a brave new world of Kickstarter, we are still learning the ropes on a lot of things. Greenlight in particular is a bit of a mystery for us that we were hoping to fully size up once the greenlight was successful. We are quickly realizing that it is its own beast -- and should be treated as such. Thank you to everyone engaged in this campaign for being vigilant.

For those of you that joined late in the campaign, we also wanted to apologize if the details of the Steam key came off as an aggressive up-sell. Through out the discussions, we thought we had better detailed our intentions since the beginning, but we're now realizing that we addressed this in side-conversations and with wording that could have been more succinct.

What are the changes?

Once again, the following changes are being made to the Kickstarter reward tiers.

•$10 Reward Tier - Backers who pledge this amount will continue to receive access to download the previously promised DRM free copy for all computer platforms (PC/Linux/Mac).The new addition is that this tier will now include a Steam key at no additional cost.

•$15 Reward Tier - Backers who pledge this amount or above will receive a poll asking for them to chose their version of the game. The options will be: all versions in the $10 Reward tier (PC/Linux/Mac and Steam code), Wii U download code, or 3DS download code. Note that this tier still comes with a digital PDF instruction booklet.

Thankfully, Kickstarter supports managing your pledge at any time. If you wish to only receive the PC/Steam version of the game and have previously pledged $15 then please know that you can reduce your pledge to $10 and receive all computer platform options.

Thanks everyone! We'll be more careful in the future!

YCG > Hero. This is why they're professionals, and he's giving people shit on GAF instead! <3

 

[Nabs]

Good shit. I'm glad they are also adjusting the $15 tier to make things more clear.

 

[Gbraga]

That's very nice of them! I'm really glad about they coming clean about it, even if it was to just say "we need to charge more for those reasons *list of reasons*, deal with it".

Now let's up our pledges.

 

[ramoisdead]

Hooray for YCG! I'm glad that mess has been sorted out and we can continue cheering them on for those stretch goals to be completed. =]

 

[Minsc]

Now if they really want to be transparent, they just need to add that getting through Steam greenlight can take years, so buyer beware if you're backing solely for a Steam copy. Though something like this probably will have pretty good luck and not take that long!

Glad to see they clarified/fixed their earlier stance... if a good kickstarter does one thing right, it's transparency for the backers to as far as is reasonable.

 

[duckroll]

Now if they really want to be transparent, they just need to add that getting through Steam greenlight can take years, so buyer beware if you're backing solely for a Steam copy. Though something like this probably will have pretty good luck and not take that long!

Haha, fuck Steam Greenlight. What a terrible garbage system.

 

[zroid]

so the "outrage" paid off

 

[r3n4ud]

so the "outrage" paid off

Sure did! Now pledge you cheapskates

 

[AstroZombie]

Since they're already doing a DRM-Free version of the game they should try to put it on GOG.

 

[grimshawish]

Though something like this probably will have pretty good luck and not take that long!

Has the situation of unfinished games not passing through whilst well received finished games are lounging in greenlight changed at all recently?

 

[Gbraga]

Done, the PDF book stuff will be mine.

 

[morningbus]

Great that they cleared up that confusion. They handled it very graciously and pretty quickly, too!

 

[zroid]

gimme dat Boss Knight 2 action

 

[ramoisdead]

Yay Playable Boss Knight 2!

We can end today on a happy note. Next up is Gender Swap and then Challenge Mode. Part of me wish this game would get an Endless Mode ala the recent Mega Man games. It would be awesome for a game like Shovel Knight.

 

[transience]

35k to go!

 

[Data West]

I've backed like 8 games on Kickstarter now. I don't know how you guys keep up with it all. I'm worried I'll end up missing something's release date/email with the download.

 

[Futureman]

Now if they really want to be transparent, they just need to add that getting through Steam greenlight can take years, so buyer beware if you're backing solely for a Steam copy. Though something like this probably will have pretty good luck and not take that long!

I had no idea a game of this quality from people who have been in the industry for years couldn't just get on Steam immediately. But it easily got on Wii U? What is the criteria for getting on Steam and bypassing Greenlight? And is Nintendo's criteria simply to buy the development kit (around $2,500 I think) and passing their review process?? Or is Shovel Knight getting on Wii U so easily because they are ex-WayForward and have a previous working relationship w/ Nintendo?

sorry for so many questions, but this is pretty interesting to me.

 

[added_time]

This is my first kickstarter I've ever backed actually. I threw down the $15 for the 3DS version.
I don't know much about kickstarter but I look at it kind of like donating money. I would assume they would try to price the 3DS version cheaper than $15 so as many people as possible will buy it. I am happy spending 15 though to help fund the development and if it releases for 10 bucks for the general public then I am more than fine with that. In fact I hope they do that so more people give the game a try.

 

[Criminal Upper]

I had no idea a game of this quality from people who have been in the industry for years couldn't just get on Steam immediately. But it easily got on Wii U? What is the criteria for getting on Steam and bypassing Greenlight? And is Nintendo's criteria simply to buy the development kit (around $2,500 I think) and passing their review process?? Or is Shovel Knight getting on Wii U so easily because they are ex-WayForward and have a previous working relationship w/ Nintendo?

sorry for so many questions, but this is pretty interesting to me.

They didn't even need to buy the Wii U dev kit, Nintendo donated one due to the goodwill they had with them being former WayForward staffers.

 

[transience]

I think it's just that Greenlight is such a public process whereas Wii U is something not many of us really know about. Shovel Knight has a big enough following to get on Steam, but the timing is pretty confusing.

 

[Minsc]

I had no idea a game of this quality from people who have been in the industry for years couldn't just get on Steam immediately. But it easily got on Wii U? What is the criteria for getting on Steam and bypassing Greenlight? And is Nintendo's criteria simply to buy the development kit (around $2,500 I think) and passing their review process?? Or is Shovel Knight getting on Wii U so easily because they are ex-WayForward and have a previous working relationship w/ Nintendo?

sorry for so many questions, but this is pretty interesting to me.

See here. But I don't want to go off on this tangent any more than just getting a quick little jab at the process in, if you're curious for more discussion, I think the best place to get good answers would be this thread.

 

[Hero]

All the confusion is cleared and good on Yacht Club Games for letting people adjust their donations accordingly.

I also wanted to apologize for being a butt earlier to Salsa and anyone else. Although I disagreed with posters I should've acted better and not been such a jerk.


Thankfully all of this is behind us and we can just look forward to the game now. Having two playable boss knights is really awesome and it seems like they might be able to reach the 180K mark for the challenge mode. I would love to see them get the amount for the 4 player battle mode, even if I only wind up playing it a handful of times.

 

[M-PG71C]

They didn't even need to buy the Wii U dev kit, Nintendo donated one due to the goodwill they had with them being former WayForward staffers.

Yep, pretty awesome actually. And Nintendo's support of indies within the last year has been truly amazing. It'll pay off for them soon enough.

 

[Ainaurdur]

Read through the Art Process section of Update #14 again.

I don't know why I overlooked her before, but I really like the Enchantress design. Shares some good traits with Maleficent.

 

[Hero]

Read through the Art Process section of Update #14 again.

I don't know why I overlooked her before, but I really like the Enchantress design. Shares some good traits with Maleficent.

Agreed, she reminded me of Maleficent too.

 

[jett]

Second project I back after Double Fine Adventure. Feels good maynes.

 

[abstract alien]

Off topic, but I figure it isn't worth starting a thread over. Can a big company such as Nintendo use kick starter, or is it confined to smaller studios? This is one of those projects I imagine larger companies would like to do, but may be afraid of. Say Nintendo wanted to do a 2D Metroid, but wasn't sure about it. Are they able to do a kick starter to gage if things will be profitable? Legally speaking, of course.

Shovel Knight just seems like the type of game that might not have come had kick starter not been here, so I'm curious it's exclusive to indies.

 

[CDX]

Off topic, but I figure it isn't worth starting a thread over. Can a big company such as Nintendo use kick starter, or is it confined to smaller studios? This is one of those projects I imagine larger companies would like to do, but may be afraid of. Say Nintendo wanted to do a 2D Metroid, but wasn't sure about it. Are they able to do a kick starter to gage if things will be profitable? Legally speaking, of course.

Shovel Knight just seems like the type of game that might not have come had kick starter not been here, so I'm curious it's exclusive to indies.

I guess big companies can use kickstarter.

Warner Brothers just did the Veronica Mars movie kickstarter

Or at least they allowed Rob Thomas the creator of VM to do the Kickstarter ...but Warner Brothers still owns the rights to VM and approved of and is fulfilling the all rewards themselves. So I'd say it's basically Warner Brothers doing the Kickstarter.

They got a small bit of negative press about it too, "should a large company like Warner Brothers be using Kickstarter"

 

[Eric C]

They added this to the kickstarter page to clarify exactly what you're getting for the $10 or $15 pledge levels.

So it looks like if you choose PC you get BOTH the DRM free versions and the Steam versions (if they get approved via Steam Greenlight)

$15 and above also includes a PDF instruction booklet that's not included in $10 level

I can't wait to get that Digital Soundtrack.

 

[Atomski]

Haha, fuck Steam Greenlight. What a terrible garbage system.

Im sure Valve will be making some changes this year. Clearly things are not going exactly as they planned.

 

[Glass Rebel]

<3 YCG

It's good to have my suspicions confirmed, now let's hope it makes it through greenlight ASAP.

 

[HadesGigas]

Im sure Valve will be making some changes this year. Clearly things are not going exactly as they planned.

"This year" a a pretty optimistic target for anything from Valve. That stuff Gabe mentioned in one interview about what he sees as the future of Steam (user curated storefronts) is probably years away in Valve Time.

 

[Diggeh]

It must be awkward to have no backers for the $2,000 sleepover/$5,000 Yacht Party. Four $1,000 directors though!