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[Doctor Hades]

That's fine if its not Pro patched, but why is it worse on the Pro? Did we ever experience anything like this with the PS4 Pro running unpatched games?

My recollection of the PS4 Pro is that enhanced games looked obviously better on my TV because they were targeting 1440p or higher rather than 1080p or lower. Remember this was a time before FSR upscaling and when other techniques such as 4K checkerboard rendering was used to "fake" the missing pixels to lesser (Red Dead Redemption 2) or greater (Horizon Zero Dawn) effect. This was also when we only got one mode, usually 30 fps but in some rare cases 60 fps versus 30 fps over the base system. It was much easier to see the improvements to the games and developers only had to update one PS4 mode with another single PS4 Pro mode.

Also, the PS4 Pro itself listed the patch notes and changes in the Game's Information so that just clarified what I was seeing. However, I do recall that not every PS4 Pro game ran better than the base system; there were a large number of games that actually ran worse as covered by Digital Foundry.

The PS5 games are already targeting 4K so the improvements to the games is far less obvious in games that already looked good on base PS5, e.g. Spider-Man 2, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, God of War: Ragnarok, Horizon: Forbidden West, etc. The biggest improvements seem to be to games that were not well-optimised in the first place (Dragon's Dogma 2, Elden Ring) or had sub-standard image quality in Performance mode (Final Fantasy VII Rebirth) where the PS5 Pro is basically a "band aid" for shoddy (mostly) third-party games. And, of course, we have additional RT which is nice but this means 30 fps and/or lower resolutions, which are less flattering when upscaled even with PSSR. PSSR, unfortunately, is not quite the saviour for poor IQ that I hoped it would be. It's good for games rendering at 1440p+ to 4K but we are still seeing a lot of Pro enhanced games running with sub-1440p and even sub-1080p resolutions that when upscaled to 4K have their own issues (texture flickering, shimmering, aliasing in motion), just like FSR. It's quite telling in my opinion that the two games with the best image quality by far on PS5 Pro are Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered and Horizon Forbidden West, neither of which use PSSR.

I guess the reality is that as PS5 Pro owners we are effectively beta testing PSSR for Sony for the PS6 when I expect the technology will have improved in the same way DLSS did for NVIDIA. DLSS version 1.0 was pretty awful but it massively improved with version 2.0 onward.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

My recollection of the PS4 Pro is that enhanced games looked obviously better on my TV because they were targeting 1440p or higher rather than 1080p or lower. Remember this was a time before FSR upscaling and when other techniques such as 4K checkerboard rendering was used to "fake" the missing pixels to lesser (Red Dead Redemption 2) or greater (Horizon Zero Dawn) effect. This was also when we only got one mode, usually 30 fps but in some rare cases 60 fps versus 30 fps over the base system. It was much easier to see the improvements to the games and developers only had to update one PS4 mode with another single PS4 Pro mode.

Also, the PS4 Pro itself listed the patch notes and changes in the Game's Information so that just clarified what I was seeing. However, I do recall that not every PS4 Pro game ran better than the base system; there were a large number of games that actually ran worse as covered by Digital Foundry.

The PS5 games are already targeting 4K so the improvements to the games is far less obvious in games that already looked good on base PS5, e.g. Spider-Man 2, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, God of War: Ragnarok, Horizon: Forbidden West, etc. The biggest improvements seem to be to games that were not well-optimised in the first place (Dragon's Dogma 2, Elden Ring) or had sub-standard image quality in Performance mode (Final Fantasy VII Rebirth) where the PS5 Pro is basically a "band aid" for shoddy (mostly) third-party games. And, of course, we have additional RT which is nice but this means 30 fps and/or lower resolutions, which are less flattering when upscaled even with PSSR. PSSR, unfortunately, is not quite the saviour for poor IQ that I hoped it would be. It's good for games rendering at 1440p+ to 4K but we are still seeing a lot of Pro enhanced games running with sub-1440p and even sub-1080p resolutions that when upscaled to 4K have their own issues (texture flickering, shimmering, aliasing in motion), just like FSR. It's quite telling in my opinion that the two games with the best image quality by far on PS5 Pro are Horizon Zero Dawn Remastered and Horizon Forbidden West, neither of which use PSSR.

I guess the reality is that as PS5 Pro owners we are effectively beta testing PSSR for Sony for the PS6 when I expect the technology will have improved in the same way DLSS did for NVIDIA. DLSS version 1.0 was pretty awful but it massively improved with version 2.0 onward.

PSSR isn’t bad like DLSS 1.0 though, it’s already performing great for the majority of titles that use it

But it should get better and devs need to know it’s not a magic bullet for poverty resolutions

 

[AngelMuffin]

Did you play Quality or Performance? Based on the videos I've seen, looks like Performance mode is where it mostly shits the bed with the shimmering.

Performance. Tried quality, but didn’t like the way it felt. I played the first part of the game (mainly outside) on the base PS5 so that’s probably why I didn’t notice a ton a shimmer.

 

[Bojji]

Buy Pro now for 800 Euro:

- wait for new games from Sony (nothing announced outside of GoY)
- wait 3+ months for disc drive to play your physical games
- wait 6-12 months for third party games to finally look good

 

[EMR]

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Finally some communication about this. Hope their next patch is a big improvement

 

[tommib]

Praise Jesus.

 

[EMR]

Finally some communication about this. Hope their next patch is a big improvement

My original plan was to make this a day 1 Pro game but I waited patiently. It's painful, but this will be a big W.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

My original plan was to make this a day 1 Pro game but I waited patiently. It's painful, but this will be a big W.

Same.

I got other games in the meantime

 

[AW_CL]

[DF] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice

This is very good insight, thank you. I would bring it into the DF knowledge Dictator

www.resetera.com

 

[consoul]

Same here. Finishing off Metaphor and Infinite Wealth. I'll visit Silent Hill after the patch drops.

Hoping the eventual patch notes say:
"There was shimmering here. It's gone now."

 

[Mister Wolf]

Buy Pro now for 800 Euro:

- wait for new games from Sony (nothing announced outside of GoY)
- wait 3+ months for disc drive to play your physical games
- wait 6-12 months for third party games to finally look good

Now they're no different than us PC players.

 

[yogaflame]

Good thing that Sony and the developers made of aware of this issues. Maybe they also notice it in there own test. I hate social media and vlogs sometimes due to toxicity, fake news and misinformation but it has its moments.

 

[Fake]

PS6pro will save you all.

 

[VictorVectors]

I remember when DLSS came out and everyone laughed at how it would never be a game changer due to the minor issues at launch.

They iterated, every title that used it improved drastically and everyone got real quiet after that.

 

[Gaiff]

Good thing that Sony and the developers made of aware of this issues. Maybe they also notice it in there own test. I hate social media and vlogs sometimes due to toxicity, fake news and misinformation but it has its moments.

They were aware before lol.

 

[Putonahappyface]

So if not all Pro Enhanced games are infact enhanced, how on earth do we know what is and what isn't? I've bought Rise of the Ronin and that is allegedly Pro Enhanceed.

 

[Bojji]

Now they're no different than us PC players.

Biggest difference is that with GPU/CPU upgrade you get instant boost in ALL older games. No need to wait for mercy of developers.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Biggest difference is that with GPU/CPU upgrade you get instant boost in ALL older games. No need to wait for mercy of developers.

DLSS does not get automatically updated without dev updates dude…man your BS lately is off the charts

 

[tommib]

So if not all Pro Enhanced games are infact enhanced, how on earth do we know what is and what isn't? I've bought Rise of the Ronin and that is allegedly Pro Enhanceed.

Then you’ll have to take my word as the number one fan of that game: it’s Pro enhanced.

But! Quality mode is performing in my opinion worse. They bumped up the resolution in both modes and the performance mode is now the way to go. Quality unlocked is much closer to 30 fps when before it was around 40 I would say. You can lock the frame rate anyway.

Performance mode is looking pretty good with minor drops.

 

[Skifi28]

Biggest difference is that with GPU/CPU upgrade you get instant boost in ALL older games. No need to wait for mercy of developers.

If a product releases broken, you do need to wait for the mercy of the developers. You can upgrade all the parts you want, but you still won't be able to play Jedi Survivor or Dead Space properly, among others.

 

[Bojji]

DLSS does not get automatically updated without dev updates dude…man your BS lately is off the charts

Who needs DLSS when you can just slap native 4k in older game on new GPU. Are you ok James?

If a product releases broken, you do need to wait for the mercy of the developers. You can upgrade all the parts you want, but you still won't be able to play Jedi Survivor or Dead Space properly, among others.

I was talking about games in general. There are titles that are broken and never fixed - both on consoles and PC.

 

[Panajev2001a]

DLSS does not get automatically updated without dev updates dude…man your BS lately is off the charts

He is technically correct for the users who manually override the DLSS .dll, but I bet the situation on the ground for these people is good with a thousand asterisks .

Then again, technically correct.

 

[Skifi28]

I was talking about games in general. There are titles that are broken and never fixed - both on consoles and PC.

No argument about in general, you'll never be able to beat what PC can offer in terms of BC and improvements. But, it seems even Sony got the message about people wanting improvements in their older games without waiting for patches. Granted the current implementation of PS4 upgrades o pro is rather subtle, but I've seen some nice upgrades here and there I did not expect and I can only image even more is coming in the future with AI to the rescue. It's also nice that tons of current releases features unlocked modes that should run nicely on future hardware.

 

[Mister Wolf]

DLSS does not get automatically updated without dev updates dude…man your BS lately is off the charts

Changing DLSS version is as simple as swapping out a file in main game folder. We do it all the time James. Techpowerup website keeps an archive of all the DLSS files.

NVIDIA DLSS DLL 3.8.10 Download

This download provides various versions of NVIDIA's DLSS DLL for download. In this one file, which is bundled with all games that support NVIDIA's

www.techpowerup.com

 

[RagnarokIV]

DLSS does not get automatically updated without dev updates dude…man your BS lately is off the charts

He's not on about DLSS, son. GPU upgrade is literally more power.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Then you’ll have to take my word as the number one fan of that game: it’s Pro enhanced.

But! Quality mode is performing in my opinion worse. They bumped up the resolution in both modes and the performance mode is now the way to go. Quality unlocked is much closer to 30 fps when before it was around 40 I would say. You can lock the frame rate anyway.

Performance mode is looking pretty good with minor drops.

I thought the frame rate was better according to this.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He's not on about DLSS, son. GPU upgrade is literally more power.

My point is that you DO NOT get a re-optimized patch to make full use of new hardware features

PS5 Pro also has boost mode, but to get the most out of new hardware you will always need the dev to go back and optimize their games to make full use of it

 

[Bojji]

My point is that you DO NOT get a re-optimized patch to make full use of new hardware features

PS5 Pro also has boost mode, but to get the most out of new hardware you will always need the dev to go back and optimize their games to make full use of it

What features? More power means you can play on settings you weren't able to when game launched. Play at 4k - 120fps or more.

Install mods improving graphics, use RTGI reshade etc...

You can use increased power however you like. And as pointed out you can manually change DLSS versions and presets, same for XeSS.

I think this is the most annoying thing about consoles, there are TONS of PS4 games locked in low resolutions and 30fps - hardware is literally unused here...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What features? More power means you can play on settings you weren't able to when game launched. Play at 4k - 120fps or more.

Install mods improving graphics, use RTGI reshade etc...

You can use increased power however you like. And as pointed out you can manually change DLSS versions and presets, same for XeSS.

I think this is the most annoying thing about consoles, there are TONS of PS4 games locked in low resolutions and 30fps - hardware is literally unused here...

Why do you think remakes and remasters are so popular?

Because they meaningfully change the games again

Being able to play 20 year old games isn’t that appealing to me. I want new games taking advantage of new hardware

 

[bender]

I think this is the most annoying thing about consoles, there are TONS of PS4 games locked in low resolutions and 30fps - hardware is literally unused here...

It's hard to get the majority of publishers/devs look backwards at their catalogues when it is unlikely they'll benefit from the effort monetarily, at least not significantly. It's one of the reasons I find Pro hardware unappealing. That said, with so many games offering various performance/fidelity modes these days, improvements could be seen down the line just through the extra horsepower new hardware will provide.

 

[Bojji]

Why do you think remakes and remasters are so popular?

Because they meaningfully change the games again

Being able to play 20 year old games isn’t that appealing to me. I want new games taking advantage of new hardware

Most remasters are just higher resolution and framerate versions of games. You can do the same running Arkham Knight in 4k/120fps, or RDR2, or any other game that didn't get any updates on consoles. Now remakes are something much more interesting.

Publishers love to make money few times from the same game (Skyrim, GTA5...) but at the same time fans are waiting for many remakes/remasters and pubs simply don't give a fuck about games that gamers are interested in.

 

[twilo99]

You're blaming the hardware when it's the devs not optimizing the game properly.

You sound like Phil Spencer

 

[Kangx]

[DF] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice

This is very good insight, thank you. I would bring it into the DF knowledge Dictator

www.resetera.com

Yea. This dev Seems to knows what he is talking about until now. but why these devs keep adding RT even though it software. These features eat up all the bandwidth so no gpu power left for resolution. and he mentioned it go even lower than 1080p most of the time. Oh dear.

So ok, it look better than TSR, so what? It is still low resolution. There is no miracle here.

He then talks about a performance mode without RT. Great, high resolution right? But no, high frame rate. It is a welcome by peoples with 120hz tv but you must have a high resolution mode without RT for majority of people who prefer their game don't look blurry on their big TV.

Lol, I am losing hope with these devs. Let throw these low setting RT features with low resolution and hope it look goods. He is posting in the thread that specifically about the reason low resolution suck. It does not matter how great the upscalers are, not even DLSS can make the game look less blurry in low res.

 

[Kangx]

So apparently the pro performance mode is fixed 900p and the fidelity mode is 1080p with PSSR from DF patron. And why only so little increase in resolution going from 60fps to 30fps? This information is wrong? Can some one with DF patron check it out?

The Ps5 res is dynamic from 864p to 1152p. Fidelity mode is 1224p to 1512p. This is a huge drop in resolution just to use PSSR with no graphics improvement.

Either this is the early version or Something must have fucked up really bad. These devs man. This is even worst than AW2 patch.

Why fixed resolution? You gona leave a lot of performance in some places. Why not just use the ps5 version with FSR and up the resolution like some of other devs have done to their games if PSSR cost this much?

The bizarre thing is, I seen the pro look better than the base ps5 in the fidelity mode in motion even with much lower resolutions. Did DF count their pixel right? There is a large gap in res here? I don't think PSSR can make an 1080p look better than 1400p with FSR.

See this video, at 3:25 on the ground it shows a bit sharper on the pro. You can watch the whole video. It clearly sharper on the pro in motion just like Jedi-survivor, but here the resolution is much lower on the pro according to DF.

 

[bundylove]

Not another one

 

[Vick]

Vick must be fuming

You can bet your ass I am.

Well.. will be, once I'm done with this.

Bloober said they're working on it, they better deliver.
Until then I've got those damn Cat Ears to conquer. Finished my third run in a row but until an S+ at Professional I'll probably need a month.. and yes those are DoF, Lens Distortion, CA and Motion Blur because the game is razor sharp anyway and looks waay too raw without them for my taste:

 

[PandaOk]

[DF] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice

This is very good insight, thank you. I would bring it into the DF knowledge Dictator

www.resetera.com

Also mentioned that StarWars is likely on SDK9 and locked to an earlier, perhaps initial, version of PSSR.

Again there’s no ‘PSSR wasn’t trained to work with real-time Raytracing effects’, that claim misunderstands how models are trained and tuned. Just like GPU power does not scale 1:1 with pixel counts, and teraflops don’t scale 1:1 either. These are cases of earlier PSSR versions, botched implementations, and pre-existing issues with denoising/sample counts in the game software itself that generally wouldn’t reveal themselves as pronounced with ‘worse’ upscalers. Heck given the relative lack of attention paid to implementation, we can probably add unnecessary use of PSSR’s sharpening filter to the list.

[DF] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice

I remember someone on Era boldly claimed months ago the Pro would fix Jedi Survivor woes Lol

www.resetera.com

For emphasis: the claims peddled by Slimy Snake are exactly as they appear. Someone with little technical understanding recklessly presenting suppositions as fact. He’s already been called out, and subsequently ignored, many corrections to his wild misrepresentations of basically everything to do with GPU scaling and behaviour.

 

[adamsapple]

Vick

Amateur.