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[gato_busta]

From the Destructoid review

For me, the really great thing about Skyward Sword's presentation is that it takes things to such a fantastic, artistically beautiful level without ever sacrificing its videogame-ness. Other than some frightfully beautiful singing, the game features no voice acting, and it's only better for it.

The reviewer should be invited to this thread!

 

[Paracelsus]

I get annoyed by reviewers rating games on how they think other people will experience it. It sort of defeats the whole purpose of rating games, you can just slap a seven on everything because some people will like it and others hate it.

For that reason alone, Nintendo should have allowed for Classic Controller support. It wouldn't have been as fun for me to play the game that way, but for others, I'm sure it would have been preferable, at least during the initial stages of adjusting to all the other new aspect to the game.

And the above paragraph. I seriously can't see what's wrong with what he said.

 

[krYlon]

No it is completely different.

This game was designed around M+, M+ is integral for playing the game. It is impossible to do what Nintendo did with a CCRO controller. If Nintendo did support a CCRO they would have had to redesign he whole game, and it would lose meaning as the leading M+ game.

I completely agree with you.

I don't really think reviewers should complain about lack of motion control in other games lol.

 

[Truth101]

And the above paragraph. I seriously can't see what's wrong with what he said.

Because Nintendo would have to make an entirely different game to support CCRO. SS is based on M+; from battle mechanics, to puzzles.

I completely agree with you.

I don't really think reviewers should complain about lack of motion control in other games lol.

Oh, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were agreeing with his complaint about on CCRO. My bad.

 

[Platy]

Destructoid 9.5

"The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword is my new favorite 3D Zelda title, beating out Majora's Mask and Wind Waker by a substantial margin."

...

Along the way, they encounter plenty of people, with concepts of sexuality and gender always bubbling right below the surface. First up is that guy I mentioned previously -- the sexually threatening, emotionally disturbed villain Ghirahim, who seems to represent the idea of unhinged, wholesale abuse of power. Then there is

Spoiler

Impa

, his female counterpart/nemesis, who similarly blends male and female gender archetypes together while exemplifying the greater virtues commonly associated with both sexes. Largely through dealing with these two characters, Link and Zelda learn what it means to be a man and a woman (respectively).

Gender/Queer theory on my Zelda review ????

Now i've see everything

 

[marc^o^]

I think I read all reviews now... so much praise! I'll take 3 days off next week to play this game

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Early on in the game, there is a moment when Zelda looks at Link and everything comes together so perfectly that I literally did not press the button to move the scene along for a full 30 seconds. I didn't want the moment to end. The look on Zelda's face, the way her eyes animated, the music, her body language -- it was all so beautiful. Though she barely says a word, you can tell from all the other elements coming together that Zelda wants Link; she loves him like a brother but wants him and their relationship to be more, though she's just not sure if he'll ever make that happen.

That's....strange.

 

[Leonsito]

Game shipped from Zavvi, woooot

 

[shadyspace]

That's....strange.

lol

 

[Socreges]

Zelda SS has inspired some very puzzling, bizarre reviews. Maybe it's because I don't normally read reviews this closely, but my takeaway is that the people who consider themselves videogame 'journalists' are very likely even stranger than the people who care about what they have to say.

 

[Despera]

Because Nintendo would have to make an entirely different game to support CCRO. SS is based on M+; from battle mechanics, to puzzles.

You could hold the right shoulder button to lock on and initiate combat mode, and then move/yank the right analog stick in the direction you want to swing the sword. Other M+ controls involved in puzzle solving, flying, aiming or moving unmanned objects can be easily mapped to the analog stick as well. That's a solution I came up with in 2 seconds, so I'm sure the dev team can do much better in a small amount of time.

But I haven't played through the game yet so I can't tell for sure what other forms of motion plus implementation are there. I'm probably missing something here.

 

[BY2K]

There is a lot of sexuality references in that Destructoid review. In a Nintendo review.

I think Holmes had a little TOO MUCH fun with this one.

 

[butter_stick]

There is a lot of sexuality references in that Destructoid review. In a Nintendo review.

I think Holmes had a little TOO MUCH fun with this one.

In the early gameplay videos I've seen, there's a lot of sexual tension between Link and Zelda. I'm assuming it bubbles over in to a sexy climax at the 40 hour mark.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

There is a lot of sexuality references in that Destructoid review. In a Nintendo review.

I think Holmes had a little TOO MUCH fun with this one.

But how did he hold the nunchuk?

 

[Red]

...



Gender/Queer theory on my Zelda review ????

Now i've see everything

Dammit I highlighted the spoiler.

That's one of the things I was specifically trying to avoid.

Oh well. Off to watch the gametrailers review, I guess.

 

[zoukka]

There is a lot of sexuality references in that Destructoid review. In a Nintendo review.

I think Holmes had a little TOO MUCH fun with this one.

Nintendo has always had very varied cast of characters not afraid of being flamboyant, asexual or even transsexual in appearance. And I applaude Ninty for that.

 

[Despera]

That's....strange.

I get what he's trying to say though, which is something I really appreciate in Japanese games for the most part, specifically Nintendo titles.

He got a little carried away however. lol

 

[Platy]

You could hold the right shoulder button to lock on and initiate combat mode, and then move/yank the right analog stick in the direction you want to swing the sword. Other M+ controls involved in puzzle solving, flying, aiming or moving unmanned objects can be easily mapped to the analog stick as well. That's a solution I came up with in 2 seconds, so I'm sure the dev team can do much better in a small amount of time.

Unless you turn insanely simple comands into capcom fighters 60 hit combos, i don't see how much stuff would be done.

Sure .. you can move something with the right analog stick ... but how you rotate it ?
How do you do a spin atack in the direction you want ?
How do you use your sword in non combat situations ? Making everything that is sword used to be lockeable ? That would decrease the dificulty of some puzzles INSANELY
How do you diferentiate a skyward charge with a single "aiming my sword up to strike" ?
How do you do a trust atack with your sword ?
Shield bash/parry ?
How to do all this when every other button is already mapped to everything ?

Your 2 second idea is like every 2 second idea ever =P

Classic controller has 2 analog sticks and 6 buttons.
Skyward sword uses almost all buttons of the wiimote PLUS some directions of the D pad AND the motionplus

Skyward Sword may be mapped to one of those crazy WoW's 15 button mouses ...but a classic controller ? NO WAY

Nintendo would had to change the entire game's way of work and gameplay dificulty to fit a new control scheme

besides the fact that this game was made to be the "OMFG SELLING POINT" of point of motion controls to the hardcore and a classic controller option would destroy this =P

 

[Hiltz]

Good review from Destructoid, but I'm a bit annoyed by Holmes mentioning how the game should have included classic controller support. He's right that some people will hate on the game simply because they don't want motion control in it even if it is fun and accurate. A dual analog controller wouldn't work in this type of game.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's....strange.

...wooow

 

[spekkeh]

And the above paragraph. I seriously can't see what's wrong with what he said.

1) He's basically saying that he wanted them to add something that to him would be detrimental to the experience. That's like saying "this game has such great puzzles, but some people don't like puzzles, so they should have included an optional press a to awesome and skip most of the game". Or like saying "this movie is a great character piece about the American civil war, however some people may not like the lack of aliens, so they should have included some".

2) He's a critic so I like to read his opinion about a game, not his opinion about other people's hypothetical opinion about the game. I already have a hypothetical opinion about the game myself, no need to read his.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Anyone know what Nintendo Power gave it? It should be out by now, I usually have the magazine by now, but I don't.

 

[HylianScribe]

Unless you turn insanely simple comands into capcom fighters 60 hit combos, i don't see how much stuff would be done.

Sure .. you can move something with the right analog stick ... but how you rotate it ?
How do you do a spin atack in the direction you want ?
How do you use your sword in non combat situations ? Making everything that is sword used to be lockeable ? That would decrease the dificulty of some puzzles INSANELY
How do you diferentiate a skyward charge with a single "aiming my sword up to strike" ?
How do you do a trust atack with your sword ?
Shield bash/parry ?
How to do all this when every other button is already mapped to everything ?

Your 2 second idea is like every 2 second idea ever =P

Classic controller has 2 analog sticks and 6 buttons.
Skyward sword uses almost all buttons of the wiimote PLUS some directions of the D pad AND the motionplus

Skyward Sword may be mapped to one of those crazy WoW's 15 button mouses ...but a classic controller ? NO WAY

Nintendo would had to change the entire game's way of work and gameplay dificulty to fit a new control scheme

besides the fact that this game was made to be the "OMFG SELLING POINT" of point of motion controls to the hardcore and a classic controller option would destroy this =P

I'm not saying any of this below would work better (find it doubtful), but here are some possible solutions to the issues you brought up.

How do you do a spin atack in the direction you want ?
- You can rotate clockwise or counterclockwise quickly for a horizontal spin attack, quickly move the stick back and forth in the up to down direction (or vice versa) for a vertical spin attack.

How do you use your sword in non combat situations ? Making everything that is sword used to be lockeable ? That would decrease the dificulty of some puzzles INSANELY
- Simply tap in the stick like R3 on PS3 (I know Classic Pro doesn't have this, but offering a type of solution in general). Or you hit the d-pad in one of the unused directions (not all of them are used in Skyward Sword) to toggle modes. Or you have all the shoulder buttons, so use one of those to toggle the mode?

How do you diferentiate a skyward charge with a single "aiming my sword up to strike" ?
- Hold up on the right analog stick for a few seconds to charge it up. Or hold one of the 4 shoulder buttons?

How do you do a trust atack with your sword ?
- Double tap up on the right analog stick. If you had assigned changing the sword mode to the d-pad, and the controller had an R3, just press in the right analog stick. You also have 4 shoulder buttons, so one could be assigned to thrust, too.

Shield bash/parry ?
- This needs to be a button IMO, but you just make it the R button to bring up your shield, and then double tap R1 for a shield bash/parry. Or, you have 4 shoulder buttons, make one basic shield, the other shield bash/parry.

How to do all this when every other button is already mapped to everything ?
- Everything I would experiment with involves the right analog stick and maybe a d-pad button or two.

The real problem with this for me would be lack of camera control. I like to have camera control, so any solution I could think of that would be practical requires the second analog stick for the sword, killing the camera option. But then again, Skyward Sword with it's scheme also has no camera control other than re-centering with Z-targeting.

 

[Despera]

Unless you turn insanely simple comands into capcom fighters 60 hit combos, i don't see how much stuff would be done.

Sure .. you can move something with the right analog stick ... but how you rotate it ?
How do you do a spin atack in the direction you want ?
How do you use your sword in non combat situations ? Making everything that is sword used to be lockeable ? That would decrease the dificulty of some puzzles INSANELY
How do you diferentiate a skyward charge with a single "aiming my sword up to strike" ?
How do you do a trust atack with your sword ?
Shield bash/parry ?
How to do all this when every other button is already mapped to everything ?

Your 2 second idea is like every 2 second idea ever =P

Classic controller has 2 analog sticks and 6 buttons.
Skyward sword uses almost all buttons of the wiimote PLUS some directions of the D pad AND the motionplus

Skyward Sword may be mapped to one of those crazy WoW's 15 button mouses ...but a classic controller ? NO WAY

Nintendo would had to change the entire game's way of work and gameplay dificulty to fit a new control scheme

besides the fact that this game was made to be the "OMFG SELLING POINT" of point of motion controls to the hardcore and a classic controller option would destroy this =P

I pretty much have thought of a possible solution for most of those, even rotating objects while controlling their direction with the analog stick. Only problem is that it'll probably feel awkward and frustrating, especially for a Zelda game which relies heavily on simple, accurate controls.

They pretty much made M+ the best way to play the game properly. But that doesn't mean they can't devise a solution for people who are fixed on playing with a regular controller, even if it takes away from the overall experience.

 

[marc^o^]

I'm not saying any of this below would work better (find it doubtful), but here are some possible solutions to the issues you brought up.

How do you do a spin atack in the direction you want ?
- You can rotate clockwise or counterclockwise quickly for a horizontal spin attack, quickly move the stick back and forth in the up to down direction (or vice versa) for a vertical spin attack.

How do you use your sword in non combat situations ? Making everything that is sword used to be lockeable ? That would decrease the dificulty of some puzzles INSANELY
- Simply tap in the stick like R3 on PS3 (I know Classic Pro doesn't have this, but offering a type of solution in general). Or you hit the d-pad in one of the unused directions (not all of them are used in Skyward Sword) to toggle modes. Or you have all the shoulder buttons, so use one of those to toggle the mode?

How do you diferentiate a skyward charge with a single "aiming my sword up to strike" ?
- Hold up on the right analog stick for a few seconds to charge it up. Or hold one of the 4 shoulder buttons?

How do you do a trust atack with your sword ?
- Double tap up on the right analog stick. If you had assigned changing the sword mode to the d-pad, and the controller had an R3, just press in the right analog stick. You also have 4 shoulder buttons, so one could be assigned to thrust, too.

Shield bash/parry ?
- This needs to be a button IMO, but you just make it the R button to bring up your shield, and then double tap R1 for a shield bash/parry. Or, you have 4 shoulder buttons, make one basic shield, the other shield bash/parry.

How to do all this when every other button is already mapped to everything ?
- Everything I would experiment with involves the right analog stick and maybe a d-pad button or two.

The real problem with this for me would be lack of camera control. I like to have camera control, so any solution I could think of that would be practical requires the second analog stick for the sword, killing the camera option. But then again, Skyward Sword with it's scheme also has no camera control other than re-centering with Z-targeting.

That looks so much fun, and engaging, except not. Seriously dude.

 

[Truth101]

I pretty much have thought of a possible solution for most of those, even rotating objects while controlling their direction with the analog stick. Only problem is that it'll probably feel awkward and frustrating, especially for a Zelda game which relies heavily on simple, accurate controls.

They pretty much made M+ the only way to play the game properly. But that doesn't mean they can't devise a solution for people who are fixed on playing with a regular controller, even if it takes away from the overall experience.

So, Nintendo should implement janky unresponsive, uncomfortable CCRO controls because of a tiny group of people who for some reason think motion controls are the bane of gaming? They should knowingly lower the quality of their game for that minority?

Nintendo has and always will be about the experience of a game, what you are saying would never even be considered.

 

[jman2050]

I pretty much have thought of a possible solution for most of those, even rotating objects while controlling their direction with the analog stick. Only problem is that it'll probably feel awkward and frustrating, especially for a Zelda game which relies heavily on simple, accurate controls.

They pretty much made M+ the best way to play the game properly. But that doesn't mean they can't devise a solution for people who are fixed on playing with a regular controller, even if it takes away from the overall experience.

In my experience, it's always better to push people to learn how to play your game properly than it is to try and acquiesce every individual idiosyncrasy possible. Choice is good, but teaching is better.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That's....strange.

Reviewers being kind of creepy about games is a weird trend

Like that Prince of Persia review where the guy literally fell in love with Elika.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Good review from Destructoid, but I'm a bit annoyed by Holmes mentioning how the game should have included classic controller support. He's right that some people will hate on the game simply because they don't want motion control in it even if it is fun and accurate. A dual analog controller wouldn't work in this type of game.

It wouldn't have worked with a classic controller, but it gives the naysayers an option, and prove them wrong that it's better with motion controls, maybe some people just don't have enough coordination to use the wii remote. Options are always good anyway, but I see why Nintendo did not include the Classic controller option, as they want to showcase how great motion controls can be.

 

[Paracelsus]

The only thing that wouldn't be as responsive is the 1:1 combat, stop pretending that the kb+m (which is more or less what the wiimote mimics) hasn't been sort of emulated by dual analog pads for years.

 

[SYNTAX182]

The only thing that wouldn't be as responsive is the 1:1 combat, stop pretending that the kb+m (which is more or less what the wiimote mimics) hasn't been sort of emulated by dual analog pads for years.

LOL, no, sort of emulated is inferior. Not saying it can't but it won't be as good as it can be

 

[butter_stick]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

 

[Truth101]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

You divine ball of the future is telling. Why can Nintendo not develop both M+ games and analog controlled games in the future?

 

[SYNTAX182]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

Your guess is as good as mine, but they are still implementing Wii remotes for the Wii U

 

[Despera]

So, Nintendo should implement janky unresponsive, uncomfortable CCRO controls because of a tiny group of people who for some reason think motion controls are the bane of gaming? They should knowingly lower the quality of their game for that minority?

Nintendo has and always will be about the experience of a game, what you are saying would never even be considered.

Try to look at it from a different angle. They don't need to translate every single motion plus command to the regular controller. They can make some adjustments to the game mechanics themselves and find an alternative to the more complex M+ stuff.

I'm in no way saying that Nintendo should compromise their product. I'm just saying that I think it's possible to have an option for regular controls, even if it aint optimal.

 

[TDLink]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

They aren't? Wiimotes are still compatible with Wii U (possibly even included, not sure) and the Wii U Tablet has movement control in it as well. Look at the Wii U vids from E3 again and you will see there is still a ton of motion stuff they are doing with the console.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's entirely possible they stuck with Motion+ only because they felt it benefited the game and didn't see how to implement it as well with a controller.

Just a thought.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Try to look at it from a different angle. They don't need to translate every single motion plus command to the regular controller. They can make some adjustments to the game mechanics themselves and find an alternative to the more complex M+ stuff.

I'm in no way saying that Nintendo should compromise their product. I'm just saying that I think it's possible to have an option for regular controls, even if it aint optimal.

Yeah, but they want to force gamers to play with the motion controls to convince them that motion controls can be great and can be good because it's been doubted for so long.

 

[gato_busta]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

Because Wiimotes will still be usable with the Wii U?

 

[marc^o^]

Why showcase motion controls when Nintendo are moving away from them with Wii U?

Didn't they say they could not come back to non motion controls in the series after what they accomplished in this game?

 

[butter_stick]

You divine ball of the future is telling. Why can Nintendo not develop both M+ games and analog controlled games in the future?

Because motion controls are a fad, and hardcore gamers haven't accepted them. Which is why Wii U has a more traditional controller.

 

[Truth101]

Try to look at it from a different angle. They don't need to translate every single motion plus command to the regular controller. They can make some adjustments to the game mechanics themselves and find an alternative to the more complex M+ stuff.

I'm in no way saying that Nintendo should compromise their product. I'm just saying that I think it's possible to have an option for regular controls, even if it aint optimal.

That is exactly what you are saying. Nintendo designed a game based around M+; It isn't complex, it isn't hard. It simply requires a person to use M+. Changing those mechanics to suit a tiny minority is compromising their game.

Because motion controls are a fad, and hardcore gamers haven't accepted them. Which is why Wii U has a more traditional controller.

Yeah sure, have fun with that.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Because motion controls are a fad, and hardcore gamers haven't accepted them. Which is why Wii U has a more traditional controller.

Nah, they just want to add something different so that people don't go, Wii U is just 2 Wii's ductaped together, lol!

 

[Combine]

"Not my problem?"

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Reviewers being kind of creepy about games is a weird trend

Like that Prince of Persia review where the guy literally fell in love with Elika.

Ok, well now you just HAVE to link to it.

Oh, and Farah > Elika

 

[zoukka]

Because motion controls are a fad, and hardcore gamers haven't accepted them. Which is why Wii U has a more traditional controller.

You still need wiimotes with your Wii-U for multiplayer at least.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Ok, well now you just HAVE to link to it.

Oh, and Farah > Elika

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/934/934014p1.html

 

[marc^o^]

Because motion controls are a fad, and hardcore gamers haven't accepted them. Which is why Wii U has a more traditional controller.

Not a fad when its execution brings us to our initial hardcore vision. Why get rid of the foundation they built with this Zelda, that is getting outstanding praise, all the R&D spent... Besides Wii U still leverages wiimotes, I think you missed E3 this year. I'm 100% sure a wiimote will be bundled with the console.

 

[BY2K]

"Not my problem?"

You're just asking for someone to add Reggie's face there.

 

[butter_stick]

Not a fad when its execution brings us to our initial hardcore vision. And Wii U still leverages wiimotes, I think you missed E3 this year. I'm sure a wiimote will be bundled with the console.

The Wiimote will have as much support on Wii U as the GameCube controller did on Wii.