Well the article in the OP lists many reasons why people would want to get rid of tips.
The article even links a study that shows the level of service has minimal effect on tip size, so why even bother?
Slate: Here's Why Tipping Should Be Banned
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Well the article in the OP lists many reasons why people would want to get rid of tips.
The article even links a study that shows the level of service has minimal effect on tip size, so why even bother?
I just worry about that immediate rush of "Well I'm paying this guy 4x as much so he should do 4x the amount of work" and then laying off staff down to the bare minimum they could get away with....especially at chain restaurants.
I'm a hourly paid, non tipped kitchen employee at a restaurant and I really only have my experience to go on. There is just an incredible level of bullshit involved with the hours people work. The person who writes the checks isn't the person who books the place and yet still complains when there's an extra day on the schedule so they have to pay people overtime to work.
I'm a hourly paid, non tipped kitchen employee at a restaurant and I really only have my experience to go on. There is just an incredible level of bullshit involved with the hours people work. The person who writes the checks isn't the person who books the place and yet still complains when there's an extra day on the schedule so they have to pay people overtime to work.
Seems like a huge pain in the ass if the tax rate isn't the same nationwide.
So we can't know the hypothetical results of this change, but you know the hypothetical salary you'd be getting...from the results of this change?
I can say with total confidence nobody is going to pay a server or bartender $25-40 an hour, or more even.
On paper? Sure.
It is!
Living in a country without tipping and with tax included in prices, I don't know why anyone would want any other sort of consumer experience.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
More of a pain than re-calculating it with every purchase conducted?
ElRenoRaven
Member
See I respect that. At least you're honest about it. It's ok too. I mean I can understand. I'm not saying doing what I suggest would be easy. You're right it would be hard. It would be damn hard to do. But it has to start somewhere. People should not have to depend on tips to live. Not everyone makes 25 to 50 bucks an hour in tips like you're lucky to be able to receive. That's the problem I have with tipping. That's why for me while it would be hard as hell to do it would be worth it.
Yes. Printing different menus for every single tax area is more a pain than just having it in the various computers.
I think you'd find few people actually depending on those tips for a living would have it any other way. I've been in the business for 15 years, I've known countless servers, bartenders, etc. Most know they make far more money thanks to tips than they could any other way.
That's more of an tax evasion issue than an earnings issue.
It does other things!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
People don't like paying them and rationalize it by complaining about living wages despite the fact employees can never receive less than the minimum wage regardless.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Did you read the article at all?
Tipping has been studied empirically and the results show that it's unfair (e.g., biased in favor of certain kinds of servers, irrespective of performance), and not consistently correlated with server performance (which is one of the fundamental principles underlying the practice).
If the system of compensation for servers was constructed from scratch, today, there would be no justification for the use of tipping system. It's a bad system. Some people make a lot more than minimum wage, true, but there are also lots of people who don't have that level of success who are equally deserving based on performance. That's a flawed system.
The last ten minutes of this is the kind of thing I'm talking about:
http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-taming-capitalism-run-wild/
http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-taming-capitalism-run-wild/
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
For who? The mega-chain operating in 50 states? Realistically there is massive duplication in tax rates and 1-2% differences between areas can be compensated for by slightly increasing or decreasing the base price of goods in some areas so the "final price" is the same. Although the idea of cities and states all theoretically having different sales tax rates is some sort of clusterfuck to begin with.
This thread has given me an enormous appreciation for the way in which my country is structured compared to yours.
If this were true, then why do servers and people on gaf get so upset over people not tipping? If it isn't going to make a difference anyways?
EDIT: Case in point below
PanicFreak
Member
If you don't like it, don't eat out.
Waiters make around $2.00 an hour and are assumed to make commission on everything they sell. The crux is that they don't often get to work full time and thus they have to augment it with high hourly wages.
I honestly can't believe people feel like they are getting a raw deal because a waitress makes $20 an hour in the 20 hours they work in a given week.
The obligation to support the waiter with our tips is a terrible thing. That should be the business' duty, as it is in every other industry. Any tips should be on top of minimum wage in my opinion.
What really pisses me off is waiters holding your food hostage when you don't tip. That should be a health violation, and anyone who messes with someone's food should be banned from ever waiting tables ever again.
I was a delivery driver for a hardware store some years ago and we seldom got tipped. Despite the fact we would bring our customers products anywhere they wanted, and it often was tonnes of material. Tips were always welcome, but never demanded - and; we wouldn't destroy their products because a lack of tips. Every time I hear a server or waiter say they compromised someone's food, I feel like reporting them.
To add, anyone calling people who don't tip at 15% cheap are part of the problem.
I was a delivery driver for a hardware store some years ago and we seldom got tipped. Despite the fact we would bring our customers products anywhere they wanted, and it often was tonnes of material. Tips were always welcome, but never demanded - and; we wouldn't destroy their products because a lack of tips. Every time I hear a server or waiter say they compromised someone's food, I feel like reporting them.
To add, anyone calling people who don't tip at 15% cheap are part of the problem.
PanicFreak
Member
Welcome to the United States, you can find your nearest Applebees using your Google Maps app.
Grimm Fandango
Member
We need to have a dedicated tip thread. Same shit gets brought up over and over...
"Fuck you, got mines" has a powerful presence in American culture.
Skellig Gra
Member
Playing the race card is a bit extreme here. As a former waiter I definitely made more than minimum wage but I can see how others might not. It's definitely a shitty system. I'd rather pay more for food and not have to tip personally.
PanicFreak
Member
I have no idea what you are talking about.
It isn't anything but being cheap. You're screwing the employee (which is fine if they gave you bad service) while continuing to perpetuate the system.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
It's the idea that things shouldn't change because you are fine or advantaged by the status quo, even though you know others are disadvantaged by it.
But hey I thought they were guaranteed a minimum wage regardless?
Grimm Fandango
Member
Minimum wage in a tipping-position =/= the normal minimum wage.
Fully understood, I tip based on good service. Some say that you need to regardless, screw that.
Grinchy
Banned
In all fairness, it's pretty common for prices to fluctuate wildly for chain restaurants. You can't even go on the McDonalds website and see what the items cost because the price varies depending on location.
Adding in the cost of tax wouldn't be a problem at all for any restaurant that doesn't use the same prices nationwide.
But I thought their paycheck was bumped to regular minimum wage if tips didn't cover the difference.
Cause they make a lot more than minimum wage normally.
I don't think I know one waiter/waitress that makes less than 10 an hour.
They're not even thinking about, "Oh I hope this guy tips so I can make minimum wage" (Cause they're guaranteed it anyways). They thinking, "Oh I hope this guy tips so I can make 15 bucks an hour".
Their issue have never been cash per hour but always more about total number of hours.
PanicFreak
Member
I think that fighting this battle is taking an extremely myopic view of the problems in the United States.
Economic inequality in this country is laughable at every level.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Hmm that would make sense. I've never seen it happen though but because my co-workers always made more than minimum unless it was a dead lunch hour.
I have no idea if that's true or not. Never worked as a server.
But people who don't tip with the justification that "tipping is a horrible system" really bother me.
Fair enough. I guess the only think I'd add to that is that I tip for... sufficient service I guess? So like as long as I get my food in a timely manner and whatnot they'll get the expected tip (which is 20 percent from me but 15 is fine too).
Hadn't thought of that either. I was a dish cleaner/bus boy for a while at a pizza restaurant and I was always the one responsible for all cleaning. I got paid decent hourly wage, $7.5 with a share of tips. Other restaurants might make the servers do cleaning though.
Moral Panic
Member
Are white people who can jump being treated worse than black people?
waiters think black people don't tip -> give them poor service
black people get poor service -> don't tip
How about a national tipping strike, this would force these restaurants to dip into their own pockets and make up the difference in pay, which we all know won't be enough, which in turn will cause people to quit because of low pay for hard work, which In turn will make the restaurant loose money, which in turn will make them realize they need to up their pay to attract good workers, which in turn will get enough pay to not worry if table 6 is going to tip them, which in turn will make table 6 not worry about the whole tipping issue.
Which I assume is still less than it costs to live alone.
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