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[Divvy]

...more expensive for you....for you. Not for the people who are receiving the cash.

Why should you tip the pizza guy? He drove food to your fucking house while you sat around in your fucking skivvies. You could have driven to the place yourself to pick it up if you are too cheap to pay.

Add to the fact that they are putting wear and tear on a vehicle that they likely own or pay for so that he can sit around in his fucking skivvies and wait for pizza.

What's the delivery charge for then? If not to pay for the delivery?

 

[Junior Mint]

Lifer? I'd say chances are excellent that they're in their 20's and incredibly attractive.

Probably a misused term. I say that meaning they probably have limited career choices ... though I guess that's a pretty big assumption too. Oh well.

 

[PanicFreak]

What's the delivery charge for then? If not to pay for the delivery?

I can tell you that the delivery charge goes at least partially to the company. It's not fair but it's the way it is.

 

[WEGGLES]

I can tell you that the delivery charge goes at least partially to the company. It's not fair but it's the way it is.

Why is it up to us to pick up the slack of shitty employers then?

 

[McLovin]

Food would get more expensive, but since I always tip I wouldn't notice. I'm down for this.

 

[genjiZERO]

...more expensive for you....for you. Not for the people who are receiving the cash.

Why should you tip the pizza guy? He drove food to your fucking house while you sat around in your fucking skivvies. You could have driven to the place yourself to pick it up if you are too cheap to pay.

Well it's my money, and I'm not going to any of these places to be treated like a member of the British upper-class like in an episode of Downton Abbey. All they have to do it bring me what I order and place it in front of me. I don't tip the Wal-mart employee for ringing me up.

And yes, why should I pay him? Delivery is offered by pizza restaurants, and most of them charge extra for it. So in addition to paying extra for delivery you expect me to tip on top of that? That's essentially paying double for pizza delivery.

Employees are agents of their employers. My transaction is with the employer not the employee. The idea that the transaction is actually between me and the agent, and that I should have to compensate the agent is patently absurd. In law, the concept of respondeat superior (where employers are responsible for the negligence of their employees) is premised on the fact that the master is responsible for the servant. So if an employer is responsible for the employee it follows that he is also responsible for paying his wages. I am not their employer, and my interaction is with the business they are servants of - not them. I shouldn't have to pay their wages.

 

[Zoe]

Tipping was 15%, but now the cultural standard is 20% even though service hasn't gotten any better. Also, in the past, you only tipped pre-tax and optionally on alcohol, but I've heard people express the belief that you are supposed to tip on the whole amount.

Don't let people fool you into believing the standard has changed.

 

[Fularu]

Because all your "protest vote" does is take money out of the pocket of the employee. Punishing the victim for his aggressor's sins. Tip everybody at the same rate, that's the only legitimate way to handle this. Because without tipping prices would be higher.

Without tipping people would stop doing those jobs for shitty wages, forcing employers to decently pay their workers or close shop

Works for me

 

[ultron87]

Without tipping people would stop doing those jobs for shitty wages, forcing employers to decently pay their workers or close shop

Works for me

Sure, if you got a majority of the restaurant going populace to stop tipping. Until then you're just ruining someone's day while perpetuating the system.

 

[gohepcat]

Why is it up to us to pick up the slack of shitty employers then?

Because welcome to the real world?

How do you think EVERY company works? This is your chance to throw a couple of bucks to the little guy and all of you are kicking and screaming about it.

 

[PanicFreak]

Without tipping people would stop doing those jobs for shitty wages, forcing employers to decently pay their workers or close shop

Works for me

Forcing them to pay minimum wage? Minimum wage in the States is a joke.

In some ways, I completely agree with you. But I'm not going to screw a guy or gal out of money that they need to pay their bills. Waiters are usually people who are going to school or taking on a second job because they need the money, there is no reason to burn them because you feel the system isn't fair because you are expected to tip $20 on a $100 bottle of wine.

 

[genjiZERO]

Don't let people fool you into believing the standard has changed.

I don't. I'm 15% pre-tax, base it on actual service quality, and tip very little on alcohol.

But the basics of economics come into play before your personal moralizing does. Prices are what they are, and employees are paid what they are, due to the influx of money from this stupid practice. There is no moralizing that you can apply to wriggle yourself out of the fact that you get a cheaper product and this guy gets paid less because of a practice 99% of Americans take part in. Whenever one of us breaks that covenant, whatever our personal feelings on it, we are saving money in a way that doesn't match with what the service is worth.

Unless you're going to organize some anti-tipping drive, that's never going to happen. That's just your justification for not paying the proper price for a meal.

The answer is to pay 15 percent on every meal regardless of the server. To behave as though prices already are what they would be in a post-tipping society. Any other response is just selfishness.

The proper price for the meal is the price listed on the menu. Sounds like a boon to me then.

 

[akira28]

Get rid of tipping and just raise waiter wages. Price of food goes up? Stop being so shady with profit margins and we won't mind a raise in prices.

 

[gohepcat]

Well it's my money, and I'm not going to any of these places to be treated like a member of the British upper-class like in an episode of Downton Abbey. All they have to do it bring me what I order and place it in front of me. I don't tip the Wal-mart employee for ringing me up.

And yes, why should I pay him? Delivery is offered by pizza restaurants, and most of them charge extra for it. So in addition to paying extra for delivery you expect me to tip on top of that? That's essentially paying double for pizza delivery.

Employees are agents of their employers. My transaction is with the employer not the employee. The idea that the transaction is actually between me and the agent, and that I should have to compensate the agent is patently absurd. In law, the concept of respondeat superior (where employers are responsible for the negligence of their employees) is premised on the fact that the master is responsible for the servant. So if an employer is responsible for the employee it follows that he is also responsible for paying his wages. I am not their employer, and my interaction is with the business they are servants of - not them. I shouldn't have to pay their wages.

Wow. What a wonderful way to look at your fellow human beings. You must be a joy to be around.

It's about being a decent human being. It about being apart of a society that treats each other well and has little traditions that help each other out. It's really nice. You should try it some time. It costs you next to nothing, and in return you get to bring a little extra cash into some working class stiff's life.

I've have great friends who worked in the service industry. I tip well and and I'm treated exceptionally because of it...and I'm glad to do it. It's a small token of my appreciation and worth it.

Have you considered the possibility that you are just a skinflint?

 

[WEGGLES]

Because welcome to the real world?

How do you think EVERY company works? This is your chance to throw a couple of bucks to the little guy and all of you are kicking and screaming about it.

I tip. But I'd prefer if the government said "Pay everyone the same minimum wage, no lesser wage for tipped workers" so it wasn't on me to pay my servers wages ontop of my food price.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Never known a European to not be amazed by the service they receive in American restaurants. Tipping culture does produce better service, but it does also allow for many things in the article to occur.

 

[PanicFreak]

Well it's my money, and I'm not going to any of these places to be treated like a member of the British upper-class like in an episode of Downton Abbey. All they have to do it bring me what I order and place it in front of me. I don't tip the Wal-mart employee for ringing me up.

And yes, why should I pay him? Delivery is offered by pizza restaurants, and most of them charge extra for it. So in addition to paying extra for delivery you expect me to tip on top of that? That's essentially paying double for pizza delivery.

Employees are agents of their employers. My transaction is with the employer not the employee. The idea that the transaction is actually between me and the agent, and that I should have to compensate the agent is patently absurd. In law, the concept of respondeat superior (where employers are responsible for the negligence of their employees) is premised on the fact that the master is responsible for the servant. So if an employer is responsible for the employee it follows that he is also responsible for paying his wages. I am not their employer, and my interaction is with the business they are servants of - not them. I shouldn't have to pay their wages.

But you do pay their wages. You buy a product, company uses proceeds to pay employees, bills, etc. and they keep the rest for themselves. That's true for every company you deal with regardless of whether you are expected to tip or not. This is just a more overt way to doing business and one that allows you to get cheap menu prices.

 

[Fularu]

Forcing them to pay minimum wage? Minimum wage in the States is a joke.

In some ways, I completely agree with you. But I'm not going to screw a guy or gal out of money that they need to pay their bills. Waiters are usually people who are going to school or taking on a second job because they need the money, there is no reason to burn them because you feel the system isn't fair because you are expected to tip $20 on a $100 bottle of wine.

Where did I say "minimum wages"? I said "decent wages".

And I'm usually a prety good tipper since I tip, on average, 18% after taxes.

Thing is, it doesn't prevent me from thinking that :

1 - the system is flawed
2 - waiters abuse the hell out of it (especially the taxes part)

I was raised within a non-tipping culture (France) and not only isn't the service better in Canada, dining out is actually more expensive here after taxes and tip for comparable meals in comparable restaurants. So the "price of food will rise" is bollocks, the price increase was marginal in France when it happened

 

[Angry Grimace]

Without tipping people would stop doing those jobs for shitty wages, forcing employers to decently pay their workers or close shop

Works for me

There's no evidence to support this. Its far more likely employers would just pay all of the workers shitty wages.

Because welcome to the real world?

How do you think EVERY company works? This is your chance to throw a couple of bucks to the little guy and all of you are kicking and screaming about it.

At the least we've escaped the disingenuousness of pretending its about worker's rights and gotten to the real argument: "I don't want to pay tips."

 

[Junior Mint]

There's no evidence to support this. Its far more likely employers would just pay all of the workers shitty wages.

They already make minimum wage in Canada. Most make $1 - 2 above it.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

EMT's save fucking lives giving 110% and they get no tips. No 15% 'Successful Resuscitation' Fee's are added.

A surgeon after doing a Successful Heart Transplant, saving a life get's no tips

Swat teams defusing Hostage Situations Get no 20% mandatory 'I saved your ass' fees added to a bill given to the hostages

All of the Bob Parr's of the world, going out of their way to help you even when they could get in trouble, get no tips

I've worked Food service, Extra Cheese and Pepperoni, 25% less sauce on all the pizza's I make, because the customers like it that way. And yes, I brought it out to the customers sitting in the tables around back. Waiter and the cook. I was everyone actually, since there's usually only one of us on the clock at the same time. No tips

Cart attendants loading your big ass dresser into your tiny honda fit, while you watch. No Tips.

My friend in Electronics Doesn't upsell, he'll get you exactly what you need. Won't sell you a Wireless N $80 router if you are the only person at home using wifi on 2 devices with 10mbps down internet. No tips. No, he get's the great honor of keeping his job.

I've spent 20 minutes on the phone helping a student who was repeatedly given the runaround on registration and financial aid, telling them step by step what they needed to do to get everything done by the deadline tomorrow. And we work in IT Tech support.

Airline pilots don't add a 10% 'smooth flying' surcharge when there was no turbulence and they perform a perfect landing.

Customer Service bending the rules to allow a return that ordinarily wouldn't be allowed receive no extra compensation for service above and beyond the call of duty.

Imagine if all those people did the minimum and still expected some kind of compensation


I don't see why waiters are so special. I'd rather tip the cooking staff than the waiters, but they're usually paid a flat fee, when they make or break the restaurant. Best 5 star waiters in the world serving shit food can't save a restaurant. But some waiters make 15+ and hour so that's why we should keep the status quo, fuck all the 'ugly', tattoed, older waiters with a face mole that don't look hot/attractive/relatable to the customers. I got mine, Fuck the others. If waiters deserve to get tipped then everyone deserves to be tipped. And like someone said earlier, waiters who don't pull in enough tips to get above minimum wage overall aren't waiters for long.

 

[partime]

Aw shit, here we go. I'm fine with doing away with tips, but in the mean time, I'm going to tip my server because stiffing them isn't right and isn't going to do shit.

My wife tipped this racist waiter $0.01 on credit card.
Never saw her at the restaurant again.

 

[gohepcat]

They already make minimum wage in Canada. Most make $1 - 2 above it.

Wow. 1 or 2 dollars above minimum wage? That's so much better than the 50k or 60k some servers make here.

It's one of the few jobs where you can bust your ass and make a good living here.

Really people?

 

[ymmv]

Tipping used to frowned upon. American workers would protest against the custom of tipping waiters. See for instance this shot from the 1930ies movie "The Petrified Forest". In the movie one of the characters is a bar owner and has this sign behind him on the wall:

Here's an interesting blog posting about it:

It would appear that Jason's signs and posters in his Filling Station and Bar-B-Q present a coherent and typical politics of a New Deal Democrat. In our discussions, we had difficulty placing his "TIPPING IS UN-AMERICAN--KEEP YOUR CHANGE!" handmade sign amidst his NRA (National Recovery Administration, which was the agency primarily responsible for setting up the New Deal), TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority), and American Legion posters.

The opposition to tipping in America began in the 1890s and continued through the 1930s. Before the Civil War, tipping was uncommon in the U.S. By the late 19th century, however, the custom was imported from Europe and caused Americans to worry that tipping would create a master-and-servant dynamic between the tipper and tippee and hinder the ability for workers to earn a fair -- and agreed upon -- wage. Accusations of "un-American-ness" were hurled at the practice because it resembled European aristocratic and class stratified customs. Some recipients of tips resented being given them because they associated tips with low- or un-skilled labor (i.e. the shoe shine boy vs. a restaurant owner), but the largest argument against tipping was born out of concerns for fair wages and workers' rights. The argument against tipping aimed to support workers' rights to a fair wage provided by employers; if you think about it, tip-heavy professions, such as restaurant work, allows employers to divert the responsibility to pay their workers to the customers and their whims. By the turn of the century, editorials against tipping appeared in major newspapers, such as the NYT and the Washington Post, and opponents of tipping formed an anti-tipping union:

"In 1904, the Anti-Tipping Society of America sprang up in Georgia, and its 100,000 members signed pledges not to tip anyone for a year. Leagues of traveling salesmen opposed the tip, as did most labor unions. In 1909, Washington became the first of six states to pass an anti-tipping law. But tipping persisted. The new laws rarely were enforced, and when they were, they did not hold up in court. By 1926, every anti-tipping law had been repealed."

Jason might come across as curmudgeonly and patriotic, but he would unlikely support "rugged individualism" and capitalism that lacks regulation over collective organization and social welfare. He just draws a hardline between New Deal social programs and Communism.

 

[Daingurse]

Until servers start getting decent wages in the States, tips will continue to be a thing. I'm black, so I'm not going to perpetuate the "no tipping" stereotype either. You can definitely argue that tipping is a flawed system, but it's not like the servers got a real choice in the matter, so it makes no sense to punish them to me.

 

[Liferebooted]

Oh jesus this again? Tipping is good\bad\stupid.

 

[PanicFreak]

Where did I say "minimum wages"? I said "decent wages".

And I'm usually a prety good tipper since I tip, on average, 18% after taxes.

Thing is, it doesn't prevent me from thinking that :

1 - the system is flawed
2 - waiters abuse the hell out of it (especially the taxes part)

I was raised within a non-tipping culture (France) and not only isn't the service better in Canada, dining out is actually more expensive here after taxes and tip for comparable meals in comparable restaurants. So the "price of food will rise" is bollocks, the price increase was marginal in France when it happened

That's all well and good but what you are advocating (i.e., stiffing the employee to force the company to pay more for their labor) doesn't adjust the employee to a "decent wage" in the States.

I know that minimum wages in other countries are much higher than in the United States so that is a perspective that I don't share with you.

Personally, I don't care if it's a broken system. Most of my friends who paid their way through college without loans, did so because of jobs like these. Young people need all the help they can get.

 

[gohepcat]

EMT's save fucking lives giving 110% and they get no tips. No 15% 'Successful Resuscitation' Fee's are added.

A surgeon after doing a Successful Heart Transplant, saving a life get's no tips

Swat teams defusing Hostage Situations Get no 20% mandatory 'I saved your ass' fees added to a bill given to the hostages

All of the Bob Parr's of the world, going out of their way to help you even when they could get in trouble, get no tips

I've worked Food service, Extra Cheese and Pepperoni, 25% less sauce on all the pizza's I make, because the customers like it that way. And yes, I brought it out to the customers sitting in the tables around back. Waiter and the cook. I was everyone actually, since there's usually only one of us on the clock at the same time. No tips

Cart attendants loading your big ass dresser into your tiny honda fit, while you watch. No Tips.

My friend in Electronics Doesn't upsell, he'll get you exactly what you need. Won't sell you a Wireless N $80 router if you are the only person at home using wifi on 2 devices with 10mbps down internet. No tips. No, he get's the great honor of keeping his job.

I've spent 20 minutes on the phone helping a student who was repeatedly given the runaround on registration and financial aid, telling them step by step what they needed to do to get everything done by the deadline tomorrow. And we work in IT Tech support.

Airline pilots don't add a 10% 'smooth flying' surcharge when there was no turbulence and they perform a perfect landing.

Customer Service bending the rules to allow a return that ordinarily wouldn't be allowed receive no extra compensation for service above and beyond the call of duty.

Imagine if all those people did the minimum and still expected some kind of compensation


I don't see why waiters are so special. I'd rather tip the cooking staff than the waiters, but they're usually paid a flat fee, when they make or break the restaurant. Best 5 star waiters in the world serving shit food can't save a restaurant. But some waiters make 15+ and hour so that's why we should keep the status quo, fuck all the 'ugly', tattoed, older waiters with a face mole that don't look hot/attractive/relatable to the customers. I got mine, Fuck the others. If waiters deserve to get tipped then everyone deserves to be tipped. And like someone said earlier, waiters who don't pull in enough tips to get above minimum wage overall aren't waiters for long.

So life is unfair for all these other hard working people, so we can't have one group of people that get a nice wage?

Awesome

 

[BigDug13]

Minimum wage should be a requirement whether or not the employee earns tips. California does it and while our restaurants aren't cheap, it's not some ridiculous priced food that people think will happen.

I can't believe it's legal to pay someone less than minimum wage.

 

[lmpaler]

"Why should I be a good tipper? You should be a good waiter and then I TIP you well"

I tip her well if she is cute(it's totally sexist and kind of assholeish I know), unless she is terrible with service(then the tip isn't that much of a fat tip lol).

And if they leave me alone after I get my food. I have no idea why, I know it is their job, but when they come and ask me how everything is like four damn times I want to uppercut them. I am eating, leave me the fuck alone. If I want something I will get your attention

Granted I have tipped some dudes fat because they were damn good waiters, but I always like having cute or hot waitresses. They are always fun to talk to, crack jokes, and my penis likes them so that makes a play in my tipping meter.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

So life is unfair for all these other hard working people, so we can't have one group of people that get a nice wage?

Awesome

I'm sure you wouldn't mind 15% being added to every thing you buy/do/use then, right? Why can't everyone make a decent wage?

 

[Vox-Pop]

Why can't waiters just get minimum wage like most retail jobs? Never understood the whole tipping thing.

 

[Fularu]

Wow. 1 or 2 dollars above minimum wage? That's so much better than the 50k or 60k some servers make here.

It's one of the few jobs where you can bust your ass and make a good living here.

Really people?

50k$?

I thought it was about "helping the little Guy"?

Talk about hypocrisy

 

[JordanN]

Never understood why tipping even exists. If it's the wage excuse, not everyone makes a million dollar salary like a CEO but you don't see people running to their doctors handing them their wallets.

People need to understand your job is not better/worse than everyone else. Tipping only promotes a system of elitism.

 

[genjiZERO]

Wow. What a wonderful way to look at your fellow human beings. You must be a joy to be around.

It's about being a decent human being. It about being apart of a society that treats each other well and has little traditions that help each other out. It's really nice. You should try it some time. It costs you next to nothing, and in return you get to bring a little extra cash into some working class stiff's life.

I've have great friends who worked in the service industry. I tip well and and I'm treated exceptionally because of it...and I'm glad to do it. It's a small token of my appreciation and worth it.

Have you considered the possibility that you are just a skinflint?

I believe in federally mandated living wages. My issue is that it is not my individual responsibility to ensure that. That's what government is for. I don't mind paying "extra". I just don't want to do it on an individual level. In Japan and Korea tipping is considered rude. If you go to a restaurant it is their job to serve you, and you shouldn't have to pay more for something that is their job. That's exactly how I feel about it. I also disagree that it costs "next to nothing". It adds up considerably over time.

But you do pay their wages. You buy a product, company uses proceeds to pay employees, bills, etc. and they keep the rest for themselves. That's true for every company you deal with regardless of whether you are expected to tip or not. This is just a more overt way to doing business and one that allows you to get cheap menu prices.

No you don't. An employee, as an agent, is "one who acts for, or in the place of, another, by authority from him; one entrusted with the business of another". Thus, my business interaction is with the employer not the employee. If an employee harms you while working you don't sue the employee for negligence you sue the employer. Why? Because, again, your interaction is with the employer not the employee.

Now if you are saying you are paying them because you are doing so indirectly - you pay the employer who pays the employee - then sure. But every business interaction is like that. And if that's the case then why shouldn't I tip the cashier at Wal-Mart? Both are services, and I'm paying the wages of both employees indirectly. I don't see what the difference is.

The whole topic of this thread is should we do away with tipping. Not can we. So far, I see no reason to maintain the practice. The benefits of getting rid of it seem to far outweigh the benefits of maintaining it.

 

[dan2026]

I have never tipped at a resturant in my life.
Never felt like I have ever been given particularly exemplary service.

Then again I don't live in crazy backwards America.
$2 an hour minimum wage, holy fucking shit!

 

[The Cowboy]

Rather than banned outright, mandatory tipping should be banned and optional tipping encouraged for service that deserves it.

I'm not required to tip my current hairdresser as she earns that in her wages, but I tip her because she not only does a good job with my hair, she also chats nicely to me, treats me decent, offers a drink while I wait and is a good laugh (complete opposite to the last person I used to have) - heck the 1st time I tipped her she was shocked and tried to refuse it.

Nothing worse than being expected to tip when the service doesn't deserve it, tipping should be earned by good service NOT expected just because you happen to be there.

 

[Zoe]

Minimum wage should be a requirement whether or not the employee earns tips. California does it and while our restaurants aren't cheap, it's not some ridiculous priced food that people think will happen.

I can't believe it's legal to pay someone less than minimum wage.

They do get at least minimum wage no matter what.

 

[Parakeetman]

Wow. What a wonderful way to look at your fellow human beings. You must be a joy to be around.

It's about being a decent human being. It about being apart of a society that treats each other well and has little traditions that help each other out. It's really nice. You should try it some time. It costs you next to nothing, and in return you get to bring a little extra cash into some working class stiff's life.

I've have great friends who worked in the service industry. I tip well and and I'm treated exceptionally because of it...and I'm glad to do it. It's a small token of my appreciation and worth it.

Have you considered the possibility that you are just a skinflint?

Nope hes got a good point.

As others said its their job which they are performing. I shouldnt have to worry about getting the same performance in the future when visiting the same establishment due to the amount I tip.

 

[ultron87]

There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons that tipping as it is in the US should be done away with, but not tipping for satisfactory service because of those reasons is just covering your cheapness with a flimsy justification.

 

[PanicFreak]

I believe in federally mandated living wages. My issue is that it is not my individual responsibility to ensure that. That's what government is for. I don't mind paying "extra". I just don't want to do it on an individual level. In Japan and Korea tipping is considered rude. If you go to a restaurant it is their job to serve you, and you shouldn't have to pay more for something that is their job. That's exactly how I feel about it. I also disagree that it costs "next to nothing". It adds up considerably over time.



No you don't. An employee, as an agent, is "one who acts for, or in the place of, another, by authority from him; one entrusted with the business of another". Thus, my business interaction is with the employer not the employee. If an employee harms you while working you don't sue the employee for negligence you sue the employer. Why? Because, again, your interaction is with the employer not the employee.

Now if you are saying you are paying them because you are doing so indirectly - you pay the employer who pays the employee - then sure. But every business interaction is like that. And if that's the case then why shouldn't I tip the cashier at Wal-Mart? Both are services, and I'm paying the wages of both employees indirectly. I don't see what the difference is.

The whole topic of this thread is should we do away with tipping. Not can we. So far, I see no reason to maintain the practice. The benefits of getting rid of it seem to far outweigh the benefits of maintaining it.

That's just semantics.

You absolutely do pay the workers in every transaction you enter into. That's why there are measurements like Gross Margin.

Why don't you tip the Walmart checker? Ignoring that by shopping at Walmart you are actively looking for the cheapest prices possible and that accepting tips is probably outlawed through their corporate policy, it's very simple, choosing to play by the same set of rules for every transaction you engage in is asinine.

To wit, would you go into a car dealership and choose not to negotiate and instead pay the "menu" price because it's a fair price? Hell no. It's a custom to negotiate with the dealer, leave, go to another dealer, get a better price, come back and finally purchase the car.

It's the same deal in restaurants but in reverse, it's customary to pay low menu price and pay the waiter on top of that.

 

[dan2026]

It's the same deal in restaurants but in reverse, it's customary to pay low menu price and pay the waiter on top of that.

You can go to the restaurant with the best deals. The same as any other service.
Why should I give the staff a cut too?

 

[PanicFreak]

You can go to the restaurant with the best deals. The same as any other service.
Why should I give the staff a cut too?

Because you aren't cheap and want the guy handling your food to make a little cash?

 

[genjiZERO]

That's just semantics.

You absolutely do pay the workers in every transaction you enter into. That's why there are measurements like Gross Margin.

Why don't you tip the Walmart checker? Ignoring that by shopping at Walmart you are actively looking for the cheapest prices possible and that accepting tips is probably outlawed through their corporate policy, it's very simple, choosing to play by the same set of rules for every transaction you engage in is asinine.

To wit, would you go into a car dealership and choose not to negotiate and instead pay the "menu" price because it's a fair price? Hell no. It's a custom to negotiate with the dealer, leave, go to another dealer, get a better price, come back and finally purchase the car.

It's the same deal in restaurants but in reverse, it's customary to pay low menu price and pay the waiter on top of that.

No it's really not. See agency law.

But so what? The issue isn't that custom exists and for what reason, but rather should the custom exist (nor is the question can we get rid of it). I've yet to see a compelling argument to why tipping should continue to exist, all things being equal.

 

[Fularu]

Because you aren't cheap and want the guy handling your food to make a little cash?

Cheap? Not giving a discretionary gratuity is beeing cheap?

Then it's no longer discretionary and mandatory and as such should be called a charge (or tax) and not a "tip".

 

[mullet2000]

It's always been fascinating to me that somehow employers moved the responsibility of paying their employees to their customers through "tipping culture."

I mean think about it. It's amazing what social pressure can do and how social accepted it is that WE pay a restaurant's employees. How did THAT happen?

I still do it because i'm not an asshole and I'm not going to leave a poor waiter without pay, but goddamn is it stupid.

Yes, please, let's get rid of tipping and make employers pay their goddamn employees (and no $2/h doesn't count). While we're at it let's ban delivery charges on delivery food that go right into the employer's pocket rather than to the delivery guy who's paying for gas to deliver your food.

 

[foodtaster]

So what your saying is that people who knowingly make poor life choices, after having ample prior evidence of the impending consequences, have to live with the consequences of their actions?

Whats the problem here exactly?



I'm going to go ahead and guess those studies only showed a general pattern and not a overbearing majority.




Flat rate laws would unnecessarily punish everyone just for the sake of the minority. Most wait staff either make decent (enough) or greatly benefit from the advantages of tip based work. The correct approach would be to raise the minimum pay rate to eliminate the exploitation while still allowing the positive aspects of tip based pay to thrive.

Blacks get tipped less than whites even if you control for satisfaction as reported by the consumer. If you go to Michael's page you can check out the study.

Then again, being born black is a pretty poor life decision. They should pay the consequences, dem dark-skinned folk.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Cheap? Not giving a discretionary gratuity is beeing cheap?

Then it's no longer discretionary and mandatory and as such should be called a charge (or tax) and not a "tip".

So your gripe isn't paying tips, its the terminology?

 

[3N16MA]

I never got tips despite busting my ass in a huge freezer digging through crates to find something for a customer. There also would be signs outside that told customers not to tip the guys who load groceries into a customers cars in the cold, rain, heat. Our jobs were not deemed tip worthy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I believe in federally mandated living wages. My issue is that it is not my individual responsibility to ensure that. That's what government is for. I don't mind paying "extra". I just don't want to do it on an individual level. In Japan and Korea tipping is considered rude. If you go to a restaurant it is their job to serve you, and you shouldn't have to pay more for something that is their job. That's exactly how I feel about it. I also disagree that it costs "next to nothing". It adds up considerably over time.



No you don't. An employee, as an agent, is "one who acts for, or in the place of, another, by authority from him; one entrusted with the business of another". Thus, my business interaction is with the employer not the employee. If an employee harms you while working you don't sue the employee for negligence you sue the employer. Why? Because, again, your interaction is with the employer not the employee.

Now if you are saying you are paying them because you are doing so indirectly - you pay the employer who pays the employee - then sure. But every business interaction is like that. And if that's the case then why shouldn't I tip the cashier at Wal-Mart? Both are services, and I'm paying the wages of both employees indirectly. I don't see what the difference is.

The whole topic of this thread is should we do away with tipping. Not can we. So far, I see no reason to maintain the practice. The benefits of getting rid of it seem to far outweigh the benefits of maintaining it.

I have yet to see a single benefit of getting rid of it beyond "I pay less." Not sure how that benefit outweighs "employees earn less."

Its contradictory to argue that you want no tips gone AND demanding "living wages" for waiters because both of them can't exist simultanously unless you're operating under the bizarre notion that waiters will somehow be paid well in excess of what a job of commensurate skill and effort in every other industry in the world makes.