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[Boss Doggie]

Yeah, I seriously doubt being popular solely in Japan is a knock. Hell if anything that's a plus for a character to get in.

As for Fox I still prefer his Brawl voice, but then I prefer his Assault look. Never really liked any of his Smash appearances.

 

[Fandangox]

Oh geez. They did? I guess our insanity community isn't secret anymore

They did more than just watch.

That's right the writer of the fanfic was none other than Samurai himself.

 

[kirby_fox]

Like that has been a factor before. Did you know Earthbound is listed as a 2013 release in the European release of Smash Bros because that's how long we had to wait. So Smash 64-Smash Brawl we had a character that was basically an unknown for a large chunk of the world. I don't think I even have to go into Fire Emblem.

For the main game it wouldn't matter- throw in RH and suddenly the sales of the game gain a good amount. I'm more thinking that because this is paid DLC, they will likely play it safe and want more global characters in the game than regional. This is of course in talking about newcomers mostly, vets I think have an open door since there's someone out there whose favorite character isn't back yet.

In thinking about the process of "who could make it in" there's been a lot of thinking for me in the last couple weeks. Anything that would take a fundamental more amount of work to see it happen is, in my opinion, unlikely to happen. This, I would think, means you won't likely find assist trophies being upgraded, any of the Pokemon or AC characters in the background being upgraded and likely certain costumes remaining costumes. This is all because while playing you wouldn't want to confuse your own character with another that shows up on screen and it would take extra work to figure out what to do with the assist trophy or forcing us to disable it completely. Just sounds like more work to create a character, when we're not even getting customs off the bat.

I also have a strong feeling characters with amiibo already out will not come out as playable in Smash. As of right now, all current cast members with multiple amiibo have all of them compatible with Smash. To have 2 versions may confuse consumers if they have different compatibility, and I fear the old versions may not be able to work with Smash retroactively. This affects few characters though-- mostly the Inklings, Toad, and AC characters.

As far as what we are going to see? I'd now probably place bets on Pichu (Melee nostalgia is strong), Wolf (just in time for Star Fox Zero), Snake (the recent rumor of Nintendo and Konami having a deal in place for them to use their one IP has me thinking) and a high ranking newcomer from the ballot.

I understand there's holes in this (like the color scheme for Samus and still allowing Dark Samus on stage) but I feel like avoiding confusion is a high goal.

 

[Geminosity]

For the main game it wouldn't matter- throw in RH and suddenly the sales of the game gain a good amount. I'm more thinking that because this is paid DLC, they will likely play it safe and want more global characters in the game than regional. This is of course in talking about newcomers mostly, vets I think have an open door since there's someone out there whose favorite character isn't back yet.

In thinking about the process of "who could make it in" there's been a lot of thinking for me in the last couple weeks. Anything that would take a fundamental more amount of work to see it happen is, in my opinion, unlikely to happen. This, I would think, means you won't likely find assist trophies being upgraded, any of the Pokemon or AC characters in the background being upgraded and likely certain costumes remaining costumes. This is all because while playing you wouldn't want to confuse your own character with another that shows up on screen and it would take extra work to figure out what to do with the assist trophy or forcing us to disable it completely. Just sounds like more work to create a character, when we're not even getting customs off the bat.

I also have a strong feeling characters with amiibo already out will not come out as playable in Smash. As of right now, all current cast members with multiple amiibo have all of them compatible with Smash. To have 2 versions may confuse consumers if they have different compatibility, and I fear the old versions may not be able to work with Smash retroactively. This affects few characters though-- mostly the Inklings, Toad, and AC characters.

As far as what we are going to see? I'd now probably place bets on Pichu (Melee nostalgia is strong), Wolf (just in time for Star Fox Zero), Snake (the recent rumor of Nintendo and Konami having a deal in place for them to use their one IP has me thinking) and a high ranking newcomer from the ballot.

I understand there's holes in this (like the color scheme for Samus and still allowing Dark Samus on stage) but I feel like avoiding confusion is a high goal.

whelp, i never see assists anyway so it wouldn't confuse me ;D
More seriously, I think almost any fan would prefer their character playable over an assist so I think it's an overall gain even if they have to disable the assist.
That said, I know you're not arguing that this is how it should be but rather speculating on how the team is thinking and I really hope you're not correct because I was already angry enough at some of the assists without it also leading to outright denying them playable in the ballot

 

[Nocturnowl]

I have no reaction image appropriate enough.

Did I say reptile? I meant green creature thing...yeah!
....yeah I done fucked up.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Sakurai, call me. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡-)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Old Amiibo would work with Smash if the character was added. The data for Smash isn't on the Amiibo, so it's a matter of updating the game, not the figure.

 

[Boss Doggie]

yeah from what I understand Amiibo are more like reference points, so Smash could simply add those.

 

[Neoxon]

Amiibos of the same character have the exact same code on their NFC chip. Compatibility with pre-existing Amiibos as far as DLC characters go shouldn't be a problem as long as they enable the character's existing NFC code to work.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What I find interesting about Smash Amiibo are Toon Link is treated as a Link Amiibo for every game except Smash and Woolly World, but Doc is his own Amiibo and not a Mario Amiibo. Which means somehow they're planning actual uses for a Doctor Mario Amiibo.

Speaking of Doc, if they remake Smash 4 for the NX they should re-pose Doc in his Melee pose to be consistent with Mewtwo and Roy.

Also last night I noticed Game and Watch on the CSS is actually posed slightly different than Game and Watch's official art for some reason. He's the only character where the art differs between the CSS tile and the picture used for the selected character.

 

[BGBW]

Dr Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit are all standing on two feet. I wonder if Amiibo functionality was discussed before they made these three separate characters and thus their poses were designed to take Amiibos into account.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Dr Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit are all standing on two feet. I wonder if Amiibo functionality was discussed before they made these three separate characters and thus their poses were designed to take Amiibos into account.

The DLC seem to be designed with Amiibo in mind, so maybe.

Certainly they'd never do something like Captain Falcon's pose again if they planned Amiibo from the start.

Doc's pose should be this

His Smash 4 pose is pretty boring.

 

[BGBW]

It's literally just the same pose as Dr Luigi's

Though for some reason Luigi tucks his sleeves into his gloves.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why does Doc wear black jeans in Smash anyway? He did in Melee as well and they just carried that design in Smash 4.

There wasn't really a reason in Melee either. He's never been shown, outside of Smash, to wear black jeans.

His official art pose is so stiff and boring looking. The way he holds the pill is also weird. His one victory pose where he holds the pills like that he doesn't grasp them as tight and he seems to need to balance them more and it looks more natural. His chin scratch would have been cool or just copy his Melee pose.

Also Doc doesn't move his mouth during his stethoscope victory animation despite grunting. I appreciate the clever nod to Melee where no characters had facial animations on the victory screen. Except I don't, it should be fixed. I don't think those grunts are in Sound Test either, because Doc doesn't have a sound test which is stupid.

 

[Green Mamba]

When making the Doc costume in Project M they found that the black pants make his attacks more readable, so it is probably something to that effect. His legs would get lost in his coat if they were the same color.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

When making the Doc costume in Project M they found that the black pants make his attacks more readable, so it is probably something to that effect. His legs would get lost in his coat if they were the same color.

Yea, that makes sense. He'd end up just being a blob of white.

 

[Zubz]

When making the Doc costume in Project M they found that the black pants make his attacks more readable, so it is probably something to that effect. His legs would get lost in his coat if they were the same color.

Plus, it just looks better, IMO.

 

[kirby_fox]

That said, I know you're not arguing that this is how it should be but rather speculating on how the team is thinking and I really hope you're not correct because I was already angry enough at some of the assists without it also leading to outright denying them playable in the ballot

I think there's a lot of assists that would make awesome characters. But when you think about how they don't have a big team, how all 4 characters so far don't have customs (this might change though when their amiibo come out), and how a lot of it isn't adjusting anything but balance. With that in mind, unless it's a very simple fix and Sakurai is OK changing his ideas for what he wanted-- I would expect way more Mii Fighter costumes of highly sought after characters than the actual characters.

At this point, I'm not even sure what newcomer(s) they might choose to put in.

Old Amiibo would work with Smash if the character was added. The data for Smash isn't on the Amiibo, so it's a matter of updating the game, not the figure.

yeah from what I understand Amiibo are more like reference points, so Smash could simply add those.

I was more wondering if the amiibo could save data on them. I know Toad can, but do the Inklings have the ability and enough capacity? The Smash line doesn't work with both Smash and Mario Party (you have to choose one or the other due to memory) so that was my initial line of thought if they were trying to produce certain characters cheaper than others by excluding the ability to save.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm not sure about the trading cards, but all figure Amiibo can store data.

 

[Neoxon]

I think there's a lot of assists that would make awesome characters. But when you think about how they don't have a big team, how all 4 characters so far don't have customs (this might change though when their amiibo come out), and how a lot of it isn't adjusting anything but balance. With that in mind, unless it's a very simple fix and Sakurai is OK changing his ideas for what he wanted-- I would expect way more Mii Fighter costumes of highly sought after characters than the actual characters.

At this point, I'm not even sure what newcomer(s) they might choose to put in.





I was more wondering if the amiibo could save data on them. I know Toad can, but do the Inklings have the ability and enough capacity? The Smash line doesn't work with both Smash and Mario Party (you have to choose one or the other due to memory) so that was my initial line of thought if they were trying to produce certain characters cheaper than others by excluding the ability to save.

All Amiibos use the same kind of chip. So yes, the Splatoon Amiibos can save data. There just hasn't been a reason to for the Splatoon Amiibos, yet. The problem is that all Amiibos can only save data for one game unless you delete everything.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Apparently in that podcast yesterday they further discussed voice acting and how Smash is really hard to bring everyone from every different IP and series together because some are union and some are not union and it's a big mess of collecting all of the actors together and striking deals that works for everyone.

They said David Hayter was the hardest actor they ever had to hire, and getting his voice is a small miracle for Brawl.

 

[MrSaturn99]

They do minor design alterations for characters all the time in Smash and there's not really a point in creating a sound test for a character who shares nearly, if not all, of his voice clips with Mario.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Apparently in that podcast yesterday they further discussed voice acting and how Smash is really hard to bring everyone from every different IP and series together because some are union and some are not union and it's a big mess of collecting all of the actors together and striking deals that works for everyone.

They said David Hayter was the hardest actor they ever had to hire, and getting his voice is a small miracle for Brawl.

What else did they spoke in podcast that wasn't mentioned in the summary?

Edited:

Smash talk starts at around 11:30, lots of cool insight on how Sakurai thinks and feels about the feedback the fans give on his games.
Highlights (I recommend to listen to it, is far better explained): -He is a perfectionist and feels really sad when his vision doesn´t happen just as he wants too.
-He was devastated with the leaks.
-He asked for hours and hours of footage to make the smash commercials, but he was never satisfied with them. He specifically asked for 8-Player smash to be featured. He wanted Samus to release his Final Smash on the other 7 players, kill at least 3 of them AND for it to look natural and perfect. At the end of the day they told him they had to release the commercial at that moment, so he gave up, saying something along the lines of "Fine, this is acceptable, why even bother" and sounding really disappointed.
-He loves the game too much to move on, so he just keeps on coming back.
-He takes stuff really personal and he kills himself to make the game.
-There is a conspiracy theory that Ness was nerfed on Brawl because a Nintendo employee destroyed Sakurai on Melee.
-They do pay attention to feedback from the community (Neogaf was namedropped).
-At 48:00 they talk about the Fox voice actor for Star Fox 64 and Smash 4 and how he was sad about the fan reaction to his voice on smash 4, but he is extremely excited to come back for Star Fox Zero and according to Chris he did his best work yet.
-Getting all the voices for Brawl was a huge problem because some voices belonged to the Union and others do not, so they had to make deal to make it happen, David Hayter as Snake was the big one.
Lots more Nintendo-related goodness on the podcast.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I didn't listen, that bit was added to the summary later in the day, I was just browsing it when I noticed it had been added.

They do minor design alterations for characters all the time in Smash and there's not really a point in creating a sound test for a character who shares nearly, if not all, of his voice clips with Mario.

Melee had full sound tests for every single character, including all sound effects.

 

[RomanceDawn]

What else did they spoke in podcast that wasn't mentioned in the summary?

Fox's voice actor was miserable after the fan reaction to his Smash performance. The guy being interviewed in the podcast completely approved of his voice in Star Fox Zero. He mentioned that Mike West was trying to imitate himself from 15 years ago and thats why it came out like that. That's one thing I can remember any way.

I should have been taking notes and it's such a fantastic listen I just might do it again and keep notes for you.

 

[Zubz]

Apparently in that podcast yesterday they further discussed voice acting and how Smash is really hard to bring everyone from every different IP and series together because some are union and some are not union and it's a big mess of collecting all of the actors together and striking deals that works for everyone.

They said David Hayter was the hardest actor they ever had to hire, and getting his voice is a small miracle for Brawl.

Oh, wow. Hopefully Keifer Sutherland's a bit easier for them to get, then!

Spoiler

I just made myself sad.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I really hope we get another interview that shows the inner workings of NOA

Melee had full sound tests for every single character, including all sound effects.

While it was a shame we lost sound effects, he'd only come across as redundant in a voice-focused Sound Test.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

While it was a shame we lost sound effects, he'd only come across in a voice-focused Sound Test.

Well, it's not even "voice" focused because ROB is there with his beeps and boops, but Mr Game and Watch isn't in the list with his boops and beeps. One is apparently considered a voice and the other is just sound effects...

Smash 4 sound test is just weird. Just have all the characters, even if they use sound effects only, share a voice, whatever. How hard could it be?

 

[MrSaturn99]

Well, it's not even "voice" focused because ROB is there with his beeps and boops, but Mr Game and Watch isn't in the list with his boops and beeps. One is apparently considered a voice and the other is just sound effects...

Smash 4 sound test is just weird. Just have all the characters, even if they use sound effects only, share a voice, whatever. How hard could it be?

That's a bigger oversight considering he has unique sounds.

The real issue with Smash 4's sound test (in regards to sound effects, anyway) that it feels stripped down compared to the past two games.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I wonder if Jay Ward isn't hard to get. I heard Grant Goodeve has retired, so he should do fine. Just make him play Wolf again!

Brawl also had a great sound test.

Yeah it feels like they limited it in this version. 3DS issues?

 

[kirby_fox]

I wonder if Jay Ward isn't hard to get. I heard Grant Goodeve has retired, so he should do fine. Just make him play Wolf again!

Brawl also had a great sound test.

Yeah it feels like they limited it in this version. 3DS issues?

I would half-expect the Brawl audio to be reused rather than re-record with a VA...but they ARE doing Star Fox Zero so...

 

[SenorArdilla]

Re-used assets just like Lucas, right?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Re-used assets just like Lucas, right?

Reused audio clips yeah. With that the model is new and iirc the sfx of attacks are different.

I would half-expect the Brawl audio to be reused rather than re-record with a VA...but they ARE doing Star Fox Zero so...

Pfft, knowing that the game is retread of SF64 Wolf barely delivers lines there.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think Lucas is just a cleaned up Brawl head slapped on a recolored Ness body, rigged to Brawl's animations with some slight cleanup.

He's basically ported right from Brawl. His animations are basically frame perfect from Brawl other than some minor balance changes which changes the animation speeds.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Smash 4 will be the last bastion of Wolf's good design. I worry what he'll end up in Zero. *cringe*

 

[Gleethor]

Smash 4 will be the last bastion of Wolf's good design. I worry what he'll end up in Zero. *cringe*

Probably better than he looked in Command.

 

[Fandangox]

Smash 4 will be the last bastion of Wolf's good design. I worry what he'll end up in Zero. *cringe*

Take a shot every time Boss Doggie complains about Zero's character designs.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Take a shot every time Boss Doggie complains about Zero's character designs.

But the beaks! Think about the beaks!

 

[Boss Doggie]

Well this will be the last game with Wolf's Smash design, assuming he comes back.

But the beaks! Think about the beaks!

Damn right.

One looks sleek, without looking uncanny valley-ish because the realistic feather designs are more subdued that it maintains a cartoonish look. The proportions are less obvious. And the beak actually looks good since it fits both the pheasant/falcon look.

Heh, if people actually followed my posts they'd say I'm a hypocrite because I am fine with Pokken designs but not this - but the thing is Pokken is just a spin-off and in more ways than one, fixes some weird looks they had (i.e. Machamp's stomach actually existing).

Probably better than he looked in Command.

Pretty sure everyone is crap in Command.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Take a shot every time Boss Doggie complains about Zero's character designs.

You could probably "take a shot" for everyone who posts in this thread, lol

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The new Falco design actually bothers me in a different way. His feet seem way too small. Birds have pretty large feet. In Smash Falco has large feet. And yet his feet seem super small in his new render, almost out of proportion with his body.

Talons that fit in those boots couldn't support his body.

 

[IntelliHeath]

You could probably "take a shot" for everyone who posts in this thread, lol

I wonder what is mine.

 

[Zubz]

I wonder what is mine.

No clue. Maybe it's something related to wanting, but not expecting, Isaac?

Mine's most likely Ridley related. Sakurai, if you read my reaction to Ridley as a boss and this, I didn't mean what I said!

 

[Neoxon]

The new Falco design actually bothers me in a different way. His feet seem way too small. Birds have pretty large feet. In Smash Falco has large feet. And yet his feet seem super small in his new render, almost out of proportion with his body.

Talons that fit in those boots couldn't support his body.

Those aren't his real feet, anyway. They're robot legs.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Those aren't his real feet, anyway. They're robot legs.

oh u

 

[Geminosity]

With everyone sort of expecting a character with that last patch because apparently it landed roughly within the time period that's been between previous additions, it's got me wondering when we'll likely see the next newcomer

 

[Boss Doggie]

Maybe tournament mode is just big? Like maybe Ridley is hosting it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

With everyone sort of expecting a character with that last patch because apparently it landed roughly within the time period that's been between previous additions, it's got me wondering when we'll likely see the next newcomer

I think they had more plans for the last update but were delayed because of Iwata's passing. The random way that update was announced was just weird. No hype at all for it.

 

[Geminosity]

Maybe tournament mode is just big? Like maybe Ridley is hosting it.

Silliness aside, I doubt the team members who worked on tourney mode are likely the same peeps that add in new characters.

I think they had more plans for the last update but were delayed because of Iwata's passing. The random way that update was announced was just weird. No hype at all for it.

Yeah, the state of tourney mode plus how they announced it just makes it all feel a bit disorganised/rushed

 

[Red Arremer]

The new Falco design actually bothers me in a different way. His feet seem way too small. Birds have pretty large feet. In Smash Falco has large feet. And yet his feet seem super small in his new render, almost out of proportion with his body.

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