Dr. Buni
Member
I agree with both of your points.
Also, I would put Inkling over Shantae and maybe Bayonetta in terms of popularity (when it comes to Smash DLC speculation, at least).
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
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Also, I would put Inkling over Shantae and maybe Bayonetta in terms of popularity (when it comes to Smash DLC speculation, at least).
In terms of our research, Inklings are actually pretty low based on the numbers that we reached out to. Interestingly they aren't even in the top five 1st party newcomers. This is a lot different compared to findings from April, before the game released. However, in Japan, they are well within the top 5 popularity of 1st party characters, maybe even top 5 overall.
I'd also go out of the limb and say Bandana Dee is the black horse here. He has a large amount of support in Japan, yet only mild support in the West (less than Inklings even).
On a different note, what bugs me about that guy from unseen64, he seems to "know" who the DLC characters are. He claims we are only getting two more characters, and they are not K Rool and Snake. I find this really hard to believe, since I feel the ballot characters haven't even began development stages yet, but who knows. We have the two mario slots in the data, so maybe it is just two left. He also claims these two are strictly "ballot winners," so while I'm rooting for Wolf, if he is indeed the ballot winner, I'd feel like the ballot was a waste, since we could have voted in so many unique characters, and instead we get a veteran.
Well Japan needs worry not for I've voted for Stunfisk on behalf of each citizen in Japan.
Dr. Buni
Member
That is not surprising, considering Splatoon is a new IP and that the game is only out for less than 3 months. For that reason, the amount of support Inklings get on the internet is positively surprising. But assuming your research is right and Shantae and Bayonetta are more popular than Inklings, in the end they (Inklings) are still far more likely to get into Smash. Does anyone here believe in Shantae and/or Bayonetta being playable in Smash?
I always thought Bandana Waddle Dee had a ton of support, but I am basing this solely on the support the character have on Smashboards. I guess the Bandana Waddle Dee fanbase is one of those cases of a small but extremely vocal fanbase then.
I agree with Inklings completely, they don't even need the poll really, because they'll surely be in the next Smash game. While support for the likes of Shantae and Bayonetta is high, I doubt they are a match for Smash Bros. Please read these articles that go into depth for each of them:
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/06/case-against-bayonetta/
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/15/smash-4-dlc-the-case-for-shantae/
Both of these bring up solid points as to why they are not fit for the series. I should stress the point that "if popularity matters" the characters I mentioned above have largest support. Ultimately this is not an election so it will be interesting if we get a character that was mid range in the ballot...
The thing about Bandana Dee, he struggles hard as being most fans "#2 choice" or lower. He has support there, but his hardcore fans make up a mild minority in the west.
Dr. Buni
Member
Since you said "they'll surely be in the next Smash game", does that mean you don't think Inklings are on the run for Smash 4 DLC? I will read both articles after launch!
I think Dixie Kong sadly suffers from the same issue as Bandane Waddle Dee, being most fans #2 choice. I have seen people saying they support her, but "they would rather have K. Rool first" a number of times. But on the bright side, Dixie has the fact she was planned to be playable in SSBB in her favor, which means Sakurai considered her for Smash Bros at some point, at least.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm going to be a little disappointed if this is true
Basically there's some evidence Shovel Knight is coming.
Basically there's some evidence Shovel Knight is coming.
Dr. Buni
Member
Yacht Club Games going from basically nobodies to having one of the most well acclaimed games from 2014 as well as having their mascot in Super Smash Bros would be amazing. That being said, I would prefer Quote (Cave Story) as an indie rep, since I see him as the Mario of indie games. That being said², Shovel Knight is freaking good, so I will not be disappointed if SK comes as DLC.
Since you said "they'll surely be in the next Smash game", does that mean you don't think Inklings are on the run for Smash 4 DLC? I will read both articles after launch!
I think Dixie Kong sadly suffers from the same issue as Bandane Waddle Dee, being most fans #2 choice. I have seen people saying they support her, but "they would rather have K. Rool first" a number of times. But on the bright side, Dixie has the fact she was planned to be playable in SSBB in her favor, which means Sakurai considered her for Smash Bros at some point, at least.
Its up in the air for me. I personally think another character will get in as DLC this time around, but I still think its possible they could. I see them as a much greater possibility than "popular" characters like Shantae, Shovel Knight, Banjo, Bayonetta, etc, mainly because third party characters in general have a huge uphill battle, and have to be "an exception" according to Sakurai. But if the Inklings don't get in as DLC, I'm confident they will get in the next Smash game.
If the rumor about "Only two" DLC characters is true, I'm betting that one will be Wolf, and the other will be another first party (Whether its a top contender like Isaac or K Rool, or a mid range popular character like Dixie or Waddle Dee).
Speaking of Dixie, I feel shes another character that doesn't "need" the ballot. She almost found herself into Brawl, and I have a feeling she will find herself in Smash sooner or later regardless.
The next thing I'm curious about is Sakurai saying future DLC being "fan service." Wolf would count as fan service surely. Isaac and K Rool definitely fit the bill as "fan service characters." A comparison brought up on Smash Boards was Wii Fit Trainer vs Little Mac. WFT was not requested by anyone, and is a perfect example of a character that wouldn't fit as fan service. Even Greninja is another good example, since he was selected before fans even knew about him.
Little Mac would be a great example of a fan service character, as he was mostly a retro choice, and highly requested for some time, eventually seeing his own revival. K Rool and Isaac have been missing for some time, yet still keep fans requesting their return.
Hell, Lucas hasn't been in his own game since 2006, and even then his last appearance was in Brawl over 7 years ago, yet fans still wanted him back. K Rool's last appearance was in 2009 and Isaac's was 2010....both smaller gaps than Lucas.
Edit: If theres one character I can say for certain that doesn't deserve to be in Smash, its Shovel Knight. I've already posted the points brought up against Bayonetta and Shantae above, but Shovel Knight doesn't even come close to what those characters have.
Slime Scholar
Member
Shovel Knight happens to be my most wanted character, so I would love this if it were true. I can't commit to believing it though. I don't want to be disappointed in the end.
That's one of the things that makes this exciting, IMO. He'd be the first character in Smash of American creation, the first indie character, and the first character to not have a game out in Japan yet. That's crazy and unexpected, and means just about anything can happen.
I personally feel its very unfair to Nintendo's diehard fans, ones that have been following them for their entire lives, to basically throw all the characters they built over the years, for an indie character that has made less of an impact than even Shantae or Cave Story.
And worst of all my gut tells me this is something they will do. Truly let down if this is the case.
Also what ever happened to "Metaknight in Shovel Knight" being Yachts Games megaton they've been talking about?
And worst of all my gut tells me this is something they will do. Truly let down if this is the case.
Also what ever happened to "Metaknight in Shovel Knight" being Yachts Games megaton they've been talking about?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
secret sources sound suspicious
Dr. Buni
Member
While Shovel Knight would be the first character created in America to be in Smash, he wouldn't be the first non-Japanese created character in the game. Wasn't Diddy Kong created by Rareware? Also, I don't consider this to be a good thing at all:
I am more inclined to believe we are getting four more DLC characters, with them being Wolf, two newcomers and I am not sure about the fourth character. Either a cloned newcomer or another cut veteran (One of the Pokémon, perhaps? If so, I hope its Ivysaur)?
Lastly, I hope you are right about Dixie!
But at the same time, Shovel Knight being playable in Smash would bother me way less than the inclusion of characters like Dark Pit and Lucina, so... bring it on?
I am with you there. I think Inklings are likely to be DLC, but at the same time I could see Nintendo saving them for Smash 5. Regardless, if there's a character that is a "lock" for Smash Bros, it is the Inklings.
I am more inclined to believe we are getting four more DLC characters, with them being Wolf, two newcomers and I am not sure about the fourth character. Either a cloned newcomer or another cut veteran (One of the Pokémon, perhaps? If so, I hope its Ivysaur)?
Lastly, I hope you are right about Dixie!
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Or how about another third party character, thats made less of an impact in both the
industry and in sales than ones like Rayman, Banjo, Bayonetta, Shantae and Quote.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Think about it though, those characters you mentioned are as "impactful" as Shovel Knight (no, the most impact Rayman had was spawning Rabbids).
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I'd be cool with Shantae, since she is arguably the first "indie" character in gaming and she got her start on the Game Boy Color. Shovel Knight's game is barely a year old. Oh yeah, and it's multiplatform. And the other versions have more content!
This whole scenario sounds stupid enough to be true.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You were one of the last people to admit the ESRB leak was fake, even after piles of evidence came pouring in. You even denied the Famitsu Tomodachi Life stage image was conclusive evidence.
And yet you believe a paragraph about unspecified retailers having a Smash Series Amiibo for a completely unlikely character?
Yupp, sadly I've learned the whole "stupid enough to be true" by now for Nintendo. Keep in mind the person who says Shovel Knight is coming says:
-We are ONLY getting 2 more DLC characters (one being Shovel Knight).
-The other is not Snake or K Rool. (Wolf maybe?)
balladofwindfishes
Member
If we're only getting two more characters and it's Wolf and Shovel Knight, then they really are going to say Wolf was from the ballot.
Otherwise Japanese players might as well have not wasted their time voting if the only ballot character comes exclusively from Western votes.
Otherwise Japanese players might as well have not wasted their time voting if the only ballot character comes exclusively from Western votes.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
A veteran that everyone expected before the ballot became a thing and a one hit wonder. I can see it happening. Truly the epitome of fanservice.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wow, even the salt is tiding in this thread.
Also now I see what they mean by Rool fans.
Also now I see what they mean by Rool fans.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
You might as well call me out directly instead of being your usual condescending, passive aggressive self.
Maybe Shovel Knight was plucked from the American ballot results while Japan gets Layton. Or maybe none of this means anything and we're actually getting K. Rool, Lanky Kong, and Bubsy. The next few weeks are going to be interesting.
Source?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Shovel Knight + Layton as the last two DLC characters makes no sense either because that leaves Wolf out who, by all accounts, has every reason to be added to Smash. A new game being released, easy to port from Brawl, incredibly popular. Even if they have to remake him from the ground up for some reason, we know he's easy to do that for as well because Sakurai said so.
Layton is also more popular in Europe than Japan.
Layton is also more popular in Europe than Japan.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Trying to predict how Sakurai works is already a bad idea.
Who said it has specifically be you, when there are plenty of similar attitude specifically to said character? And passive-aggressive, please, I prefer going for the jugular.
Who said it has specifically be you, when there are plenty of similar attitude specifically to said character? And passive-aggressive, please, I prefer going for the jugular.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Yeah, I don't necessarily believe that either. They have no reason not to add Wolf. The Layton rumor is likely bullshit, since he's not heavily requested in any region. Could it be that Shovel Knight is getting an Amiibo but it has nothing to do with Smash?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Advertising wise it makes no sense to not include Wolf. Wolf's ease of adding and popularity makes him easy advertising for Star Fox Zero.
Star Fox will be at the height of its popularity.
This is my thought as well. Maybe retailers got confused.
This is how I feel. I want Wolf a lot, but I feel the ballot was not needed for him.
I also feel Shovel Knight is nowhere near the most popular request. I think first party characters should be the priority for Nintendo, since a game celebrates Nintendo's history.
That said, theres plenty of 3rd party characters that have plenty of history with nintendo.
Simon Belmont
Bomberman
Rayman
Ryu (Ninja Gaiden)
Banjo
Professor Layton (Extremely close relationship to Nintendo)
Even Snake.
Sure Shovel Knight draws inspiration from Nintendos history, But Shovel Knight doesn't have any history for Nintendo to draw inspiration from.
I take this as a huge low blow to 1st party fans and 3rd party fans alike if its only these two characters.
Tamaki (Unseen64), the guy who wrote the article, was posting on his twitter last night teasing he'd reveal who the DLC was very soon. He made several tweets and stated the information before saying its Shovel Knight
https://twitter.com/Doctor_Cupcakes
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why are you guys insisting that the ballot is for the characters getting in?
And why are you guys assuming characters like Rool are the top winner of a worldwide poll that has voters that aren't part of secluded, bandwagon-jumping communities?
You have more chance of that Minecraft guy being the winner of the poll.
And why are you guys assuming characters like Rool are the top winner of a worldwide poll that has voters that aren't part of secluded, bandwagon-jumping communities?
You have more chance of that Minecraft guy being the winner of the poll.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Shovel Knight is being leaked as the "first ballot fighter" implying he was added as a direct result of the ballot.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
that doesn't make him the winner of the ballot though, remember what we learned
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah hence why I don't trust Unseen64. Too vague in words and makes up excuses. That's why I feel this thing is suspect.
Hell, I'm even surprised at the idea that Nintendo is showing off something new in PAX. I always thought they only showed what we know there.
Hell, I'm even surprised at the idea that Nintendo is showing off something new in PAX. I always thought they only showed what we know there.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
leftover from when Ubi was buddies with Nintendo?
From a business point of view wouldn't Rayman sell more than Shovel Knight?
From a fan point of view, isn't Rayman more of a fan service character than Shovel Knight?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
this statement baffles me
TheDinoman
Member
Rayman Legends was published by Nintendo in Japan.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Shovel Knight is a great, great character and I want him in Smash yesterday.
The problem I have with this rumour is that Shovel Knight is very much a popular character of the moment. Look at the other third party reps:
Pacman - 1980
Megaman - 1987
Snake - 1987
Ryu - 1987 (popular year huh)
Sonic - 1991
Shovel Knight - 2014
Sakurai seems to think historic status is rather important, which is something Shovel Knight doesn't have yet. Back in 2008, Braid was all the rage, but we hardly hear much about it now. Same thing could be said of Shovel Knight. I think people are letting their current favourite thing blind them a bit.
Yes I realise this is being a being 'rule'y which is something we should avoid, but I just think people need to remember that something being popular now doesn't quite have the same strength as something that's been popular for years.
Pacman - 1980
Megaman - 1987
Snake - 1987
Ryu - 1987 (popular year huh)
Sonic - 1991
Shovel Knight - 2014
Sakurai seems to think historic status is rather important, which is something Shovel Knight doesn't have yet. Back in 2008, Braid was all the rage, but we hardly hear much about it now. Same thing could be said of Shovel Knight. I think people are letting their current favourite thing blind them a bit.
Yes I realise this is being a being 'rule'y which is something we should avoid, but I just think people need to remember that something being popular now doesn't quite have the same strength as something that's been popular for years.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Well, if Shovel Knight is in Smash, he'll instantly get the Captain Falcon treatment and remain relevant forever, basically. If even just as a Smash character.
TheDinoman
Member
How so? Rayman has reached a much much larger audience than a character that never received a physical release. The series has sold 26 million copies
http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/en-US/about_ubisoft/facts_and_figures.aspx
Shovel Knight has sold around 700k copies as of July. https://www.vg247.com/2015/07/01/shovel-knight-sales-top-700k-physical-release-inbound/
Literally more fans would be happy with Rayman than Shovel Knight, thus natural Rayman would be way more viable to be "Fan service"
Oh, was it. That's weird.
I would agree with both of those statements, but that doesn't change my bafflement!
I have no real opinion about Shovel Knight as a Smash character, besides that I'd rather have Rayman, personally. U:
balladofwindfishes
Member
Well, assuming he doesn't go down the same path as Snake went, of course.
One of the most requested returning vets? Snake is still popular as a Smash character, despite not even being in the game anymore.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh you're serious about it.
I'm baffled as how you can "quantify" fanservice as though you can see them through sales and such. Like, believe it or not there are people who don't like Pokemon in Smash despite them being one of the premiere sellers, same with Fire Emblem's character selection, etc.
Green Mamba
Member
Fire Emblem's a premier seller? Awakening, the most successful game in the series, sold like a higher end Metroid game, and no one thinks that series is a premier seller.
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