Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Whoops wasn't referring to FE being premiere seller, more on its roster not being to taste with many (i.e. Lucina, Robin, sword users, etc.). Should've clarified that so that it won't be confused.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
AnkiRendan
Member
I'd prefer Shantae over Shovel Knight.
Ditto that one. One has been around for years, the other barely a year. It adds an indie rep, an American character, and a female.
I could see Nintendo acquiring this game and team as a second party though and getting the sequels exclusively. Maybe that's why, they bought Shovel Knight.
Maybe if you a comparing a series that sold 5 million copies to one that sold 1 million, then you can't exactly quantify it. However, here there is such a drastic difference. Rayman has outsold Shovel Knight by 37 times that amount, and been around for almost 2 decades now. This difference is way to large to say theres you can't quantify one as being larger than another.
In terms of Fire Emblem, maybe not all Smash fans like the series, but even the latest entry has sold 2 million copies, nearly 3 times that of Shovel Knight, and this series has been around for almost 3 decades now. And you cant even compare any of these franchises to pokemon, that is such a cultural phenomenon it is literally a household name. (Something Shovel Knight will never become).
Pokemon is cited as the 2nd best selling Video game series of ALL time.
http://www.polygon.com/pokemon/2014/8/18/6030089/Pokemon-sales-numbers
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
And it looks like you miss my point exactly.
Regardless of how much a thing sells, perception of something still varies. Yeah sure Pokemon is a household name, but people will be mad when ten Pokemon are in the game. Hell it's already aggravating to some that Gen 1 mons take up the most space while certain gens (3 and 5) aren't represented. People are clamoring for non-sword users for FE. Hell, you'd have people not wanting Rayman due to Ubisoft's recent history with Nintendo.
I will be majorly salty if Shovel Knight gets in. The franchise is not even 2-years old yet! If he's in, they better bring in a truckload of other Nindie characters along too because if Shovel Knight is the sole representation of Nindies, boo to that!
There are much more deserving third-party characters (like Shantae) that have a much closer association with Nintendo (like Shantae) and actually have a long history with the company (like Shantae) that could also provide some roster diversity (like Shantae).
There are much more deserving third-party characters (like Shantae) that have a much closer association with Nintendo (like Shantae) and actually have a long history with the company (like Shantae) that could also provide some roster diversity (like Shantae).
Dr. Buni
Member
Shantae fans are only not saltier than K. Rool fans about the Shovel Knight rumor.
Also, if there's an indie character I have zero interest in seeing in Smash is her, even though I am all for more female fighters (I think Smash has enough of fanservice with Palutena and Zero Suit Samus).
Also, if there's an indie character I have zero interest in seeing in Smash is her, even though I am all for more female fighters (I think Smash has enough of fanservice with Palutena and Zero Suit Samus).
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Does Palutena even offer much fanservice? She has, like, the one pole-dancing taunt and that's it.
Echoing thoughts from the rumor thread; is it weird that, even if I recognize Shantae's seniority and closeness to Nintendo make good arguments for she being more deserving than Shovel Knight, if they indeed go for the angle of "this character represents indies in general, will include nods to several of them" (like Pacman with Namco's arcade era), that Shovel Knight is much more fitting for the role?
I ask this as someone who would welcome either of them in a 'more the merrier' sorta way, even if I'm rather indifferent about both.
I ask this as someone who would welcome either of them in a 'more the merrier' sorta way, even if I'm rather indifferent about both.
Dr. Buni
Member
Her modern design is pretty fanservice-y by itself, though not on Mai Shiranui levels of fanservice. Plus, there's her reveal trailer.
I have nothing against the character though, she is pretty fun in Kid Icarus Uprising. I just don't like how she is portrayed as malegaze bait in Smash.
balladofwindfishes
Member
tbh I would have preferred Commander Video as a Nintendo indie character.
They managed to get Charles Martinet to narrate their most recent game and they've always been around on Nintendo platforms and always highlighted as a Nintendo indie game. Bit Trip is also the first (and so far only) indie series in Smash at all.
His series is far older, more focused on Nintendo, and overall I think he's just a more iconic indie character
They managed to get Charles Martinet to narrate their most recent game and they've always been around on Nintendo platforms and always highlighted as a Nintendo indie game. Bit Trip is also the first (and so far only) indie series in Smash at all.
His series is far older, more focused on Nintendo, and overall I think he's just a more iconic indie character
now this is crazy talk
I think this in general just shows why people will be upset with the choice. So many 1st party characters. So many 3rd party characters. So many Indies that would be more preferred.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The most surprising thing about this Shovel Knight rumour for me has been witnessing the animosity from the Shantae fans. I thought fans of indie characters would support each other.
MrSaturn99
Member
Shovel Knight? Trophy or Mii costume at best.
I wonder if I'd change my tune whenever I finally get around to playing that game, but even then he's nowhere near Mega Man/Pac-Man/Ryu levels.
I wonder if I'd change my tune whenever I finally get around to playing that game, but even then he's nowhere near Mega Man/Pac-Man/Ryu levels.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Only thing confusing me about the Shovel Knight rumour is the amiibo listing they're referring to is literally using fan art. Unless they're aware of that and it's just a place holder?
After SK, gimme some Wolf and either K. Rool or lay some Dix on me Sakurai.
After SK, gimme some Wolf and either K. Rool or lay some Dix on me Sakurai.
I understand this is basically Fanservice: The Game, but are there really so many people who are against Shovel Knight just because the game doesn't "deserve" to be in Smash in such a significant fashion? For me, the only thing that sets one character apart from another is how fun they are to play.
I think Shovel Knight would be a lot of fun to play! Certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm hardly going to complain if it happens.
I think Shovel Knight would be a lot of fun to play! Certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm hardly going to complain if it happens.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I don't think anybody actively dislikes Shovel Knight, and if they do, they shouldn't. It's more like "my character has been around for 20 years and I don't feel like waiting until I'm 35 to play as him."
Dr. Buni
Member
I think it is most that many people are still waiting for certain fan favorites or for their favorite Nintendo franchise to be represented in Smash, so when a character like Shovel Knight or Professor Layton is rumored to be playable, they get mad. Personally, I would take a Rhythm Heaven rep and Dixie over both, but since I like the Professor Layton games and Shovel Knight plus I think their movesets would be fun/unique, I will not be disappointed if both rumors end up being true.
I didn't even know who Shovel Knight was until talk of DLC characters started ramping up. I had heard the name, but never investigated further. Then I was designing these "____ for smash" campaign badges and SK was one of the most requested characters.
So, I thought I must be missing out on something, downloaded it, and loved every minute.
I think he would be fun, but I am not expecting the rumor to be true at all.
So, I thought I must be missing out on something, downloaded it, and loved every minute.
I think he would be fun, but I am not expecting the rumor to be true at all.
I mean, yeah, I get it. But there is a lot of "Shovel Knight doesn't deserve it" sentiment going around, which I understand where it comes from, but struggle to identify with that mindset.
I guess I'm lucky 'cause my favorite video game already has a representative. Although I don't really enjoy playing Ness, which is sad. ];
A lot of people think the argument that a fighter "deserves to be in smash" is a bad one, but I'll highly disagree here.
For example pokemon. Pikachu and Charizard are two of the biggest pokemon in the series. Their seniority and mascot status greatly contribute to the fact that the deserve to be in a fighting game. You can argue that they have some of the more boring movesets in the Smash series. Whereas fighting pokemon like Hitmonchan, or Hawlucha, who'd be more geared towards a fighting game don't deserve to get in because they just don't have the status some other pokemon have.
This could be said for many minor characters in different franchises. When it comes to 3rd parties, they have to be huge. Sonic was literally Nintendos biggest rival in the 90s. Pacman is the biggest video game star of the 80s, and maybe of all time. Ryu is the biggest fighting game character or all time. Shovel Knight is a one game character, that has seen decent reviews and average sales.
Before Pacman was announced, a lot of people wanted him in the game, but often it was brought up "LOL HOW WUD HE FIGHT? And usually people would say "I don't care how he fights, hes the biggest video game character ever, he deserves to get in."
Shovel Knight is so different because he appeals to much smaller crowd, and doesn't have any icon status whatsoever.....even in the indie world. Most people have nothing wrong with the character, and he could have a neat gimmick. It just feels like such a poor choice compared to other characters on the roster, and other characters that could have been.
Honestly, at the end of the day, people want to see their favorite characters in Smash. I wanted Palutena, but was disappointed by her moveset. Still I'd rather have her in the game than not, and many people would rather see their favorites attempted rather than pushed aside.
I dunno if I'd say it's a bad argument. It's just that I struggle to empathize. (I mean, as I said, I understand the argument, intellectually. I just don't feeling-understand.)
Like I guess if they took out Mario I'd question their sanity, but they basically nailed all the "essential" characters, plus some extras (if Ness wasn't in the first game, I never would've even considered him as a possible fighter), in the very first game. Then they made Melee and everyone started freakin' out about new characters. Now here we are and it's about who deserves to be in versus who doesn't?
Shit's weird, yo.
I'd do naughty things for Layton, for sure.
MrSaturn99
Member
It's not that I don't think Shovel Knight would be fun to play as it is that I'm generally very grounded in my character expectations for Smash.
I mean, hey. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just don't think he's likely.
I mean, hey. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just don't think he's likely.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I found it hilarious that Shovel Knight thread got more posts than Professor Layton thread ever got.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Even though the Layton thing was an actual real source and wasn't even entirely "debunked" by the actor at the end.
The Layton leak just so of went away, even though we know Layton has voice lines for some kind of action game the voice actor assumes is Smash, but it might not be.
Which is better than "I have some friends who say that their friends say Shovel Knight is getting an Amiibo and it's for Smash Bros because retailers would know what purpose an Amiibo is for!"
Only true gentlemen can understand Layton's potential
Well, yeah, expectations are one thing. I certainly don't expect him to get in.
But I'm also certainly not against him getting in.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
But that's not what Tamaki said. Tamaki's sources tell him Shovel Knight is in the game, period. The stuff about amiibos is him adding two plus two. Whether you believe his sources is the crux of the problem.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I thought his sources were retailers who knew about the Amiibo? Which is why some people believe maybe it's a Shovel Knight Amiibo and not related to Smash and retailers got confused because how would a retailer know.
Dr. Buni
Member
I wonder if that means Shovel is more popular or if the reason Shovel's thread got more posts is because the idea of Shovel in Smash is more polemic. Probably the later.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIER41CqL1U
Here's what Tamaki says:
-One of his sources, working in retail, leads him on a new DLC character for Smash 4, being Shovel Knight.
-He corroborates this rumour with other people in the industry, who tell him specifically the character is already in development and who will be shown in the next month or two, meaning September or October.
-Only then he starts talking about the amiibo rumour from a few days ago. The rumour mentioned that the amiibo was coming out in November, so it is not the same thing that his sources told him.
-Finally, he starts talking about PAX events with Nintendo setting up Smash kiosks and speculates that it may have something to do with Shovel Knight as a Smash character.
The question then becomes, why would someone at retail be privy to Smash DLC information? Regardless, my point is that the stuff he actually claims is unrelated to the Shovel Knight amiibo rumour.
Starphoenix
Member
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
It is a terrible argument though, and trying to rationalize it is laughable. It's up there with shit like thinking Smash has "slots" and assuming that if one character didn't get in another one will. It's what people usually do to think that their character ideas are much feasible than what is given, and that they assume it is a rational reason.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
One character receives a set amount of development time = one other character does not receive this development time, not rocket science
Also K. Rool got chosen in a picture by Sakurai according to Twitter! Awwwww yea, who's 'incredible unappealing' now!
Also K. Rool got chosen in a picture by Sakurai according to Twitter! Awwwww yea, who's 'incredible unappealing' now!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Uh no, it doesn't work that way lol
if anything it usually means one less character
A character from an indie western game is a little more surprising than a character from a Japanese series that's almost exclusive to Nintendo systems, published by Nintendo in other regions, and liked by Sakurai.
If Shovel Knight gets in, I wonder if the ballot will be what exposed Sakurai to him. It might be considering he was probably busy with Smash 4 when it released.
Masked Man
I said wow
I'm already contented with the current roster, but I would be happy to see Shovel Knight in Smash.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'll enjoy any character that gets in, but I can't say I wouldn't be pretty disappointed if Wolf doesn't get added but a bunch of random other characters are
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/replies/AYMHAAACAAADVHkZJigK6Q
Clearly Sakurai is teasing the next DLC announcement.
Clearly Sakurai is teasing the next DLC announcement.
Motorcycle mode is gonna be AWESOME.
- Status