balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm not sure what's more ridiculous, Jibanyan or Geno.
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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NeonZ
Member
Edit:Calling other Yokai to assist seems very unlikely due to the 3ds, unless they're just 2d renders...
Regarding FE characters in future games, I guess there's a chance that Robin could just be outright replaced by the newest "avatar" character by the time the next Smash comes out. Lucina is the puzzling question though. Ideally, I think she should remain as basically a Marth costume with her own slot. She doesn't really have anything unique to offer aside from being a girl. All the reasons that placed Robin ahead of Chrom also work against Lucina, aside from popularity.
I guess what we'll see is her getting some unique animations and tweaked attacks, but keeping an overall style close to Marth's, just like what happened to all Melee clones that returned in Brawl, but I don't think they should even bother with that. It'll be kind of annoying too if Lucina gets the "raising sword in front of her head before attacking" animation that Marth never got in Smash.
Regarding FE characters in future games, I guess there's a chance that Robin could just be outright replaced by the newest "avatar" character by the time the next Smash comes out. Lucina is the puzzling question though. Ideally, I think she should remain as basically a Marth costume with her own slot. She doesn't really have anything unique to offer aside from being a girl. All the reasons that placed Robin ahead of Chrom also work against Lucina, aside from popularity.
I guess what we'll see is her getting some unique animations and tweaked attacks, but keeping an overall style close to Marth's, just like what happened to all Melee clones that returned in Brawl, but I don't think they should even bother with that. It'll be kind of annoying too if Lucina gets the "raising sword in front of her head before attacking" animation that Marth never got in Smash.
Yeah, I'm at a loss on which to be more skeptical over.
MrSaturn99
Member
Oh no, it could potentially grow grim for the leaker? The ninjas must already be onto him, then.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Jibanyan vs Pikachu would be a marketing phenomenon in Japan so I can see it as feasible. Not to mention Nintendo is publishing the game overseas.
balladofwindfishes
Member
No see, it's coming out September 31st. So it we'll never know if it's true or not because it'll be released in alternate dimension where September has 31 days.
MrSaturn99
Member
As incredibly unlikely as it is, I actually kinda miss the Geno support.
My kingdom for having Mario RPG content in a Smash game!
My kingdom for having Mario RPG content in a Smash game!
balladofwindfishes
Member
The RPG attack box thing is kind of a neat idea.
InaSnowBoundLand
Member
You are judging whether other series are sufficiently represented based on whether they have their "focal" characters included. By that, I think you mean one or two playable protagonists. In other words, you are using Fire Emblem's circumstances to evaluate everyone else's. Does that make sense? I don't believe so. When it comes to series with stable casts, characters outside of the main playable protagonist also acquire importance. Through their repeated appearances, they gain prominence and fans.
If you judge the "necessity" of requested characters in franchises like these (e.g. K.Rool, Dixie, Krystal, etc.) with the same lens you use for the Fire Emblem or Pokemon series, you are doing these series a disservice. Their casts are not like Fire Emblem or Pokemon at all.
You could say that Fire Emblem also has characters in these positions (villains, secondary protagonists), but it's not the same. Unlike the equivalents among Fire Emblem cast, the characters from series with stable casts have acquired much more importance than their equivalents in Fire Emblem. Much of it "to do with the nature of Fire Emblem as a series"; unlike most of their friends in Fire Emblem, they usually enjoy repeated appearances. The characters in series with stable casts also have much less competition: they are big fish in a pond, not big fish in a lake. To use your words: It has entirely to do with the nature of Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Zelda etc. as a series. Why should Fire Emblem's circumstances dictate the "necessity" of characters for series with stable casts?
Keep in mind that it's possible to simultaneously think that 1) Fire Emblem warrants attention due to its expanding cast and 2) series with stable casts also have "necessary" characters, even if most of their main protagonists are playable. This is possible if one considers the circumstances of each series individually, something that makes more sense than applying the circumstances of one or two series to everyone else.
I don't agree with that myself, however. I find point 1) increasingly harder to accept. It's underwhelming to have attention focused on a single franchise, even if that franchise has hundreds of characters. While each series might be its own pond or lake, they are all part of a larger ocean. So much fishing from a single and relatively minor source is disappointing.
SenorArdilla
Member
Please don't bully Micaiah.
Man, I almost wanted to post the ending screen of Radiant Dawn.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I know how much you all love 4chan rumors. Let's humor this one
September 31..... It don't exists. :V
Ugh, Ephraim would have been a great character.
Yeah, we will probably see at least one more Fire Emblem, if not more, before Smash 5.
That's not what I'm saying. The protagonists of Super Mario 3D World, DKC Returns, Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and Metroid: Other M are already in Smash Bros. Fire Emblem: Awakening's main character had to be added as a newcomer. Most franchises don't need a newcomer to stay up to date, but Fire Emblem does. Robin's exclusion from this game would give the impression that New Mystery of the Emblem is the most recent Fire Emblem, just as a new FE character's exclusion from the next game would give the impression that Awakening is still relevant in 2017-2020.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
ExactlyWhen are these things ever true anyway?
Only in alternative universe...
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I don't think you know what the word "need" means. I guess SSB4 gives the impression that Twilight Princess is still relevant because they didn't use Link's Skyward Sword design.
Relevancy doesn't matter to fans, otherwise they wouldn't be requesting King K. Rool, Isaac, and fucking Geno.
Link is Link. The Zelda characters are amalgamations in Smash Bros. Zelda uses Ocarina of Time spells, her Twilight Princess costume, and the Spirit Tracks Phantom.
I'm not talking about the fans. I just don't foresee a future where Fire Emblem doesn't have a character from a recent installment.
Green Mamba
Member
A funny thing, the word "need." Under Melee's original plan, Fire Emblem would have been solely represented by Marth, and the world would not, have in fact, ended. SSB4 represented Earthbound/Mother with only Ness at first, and the game didn't collapse on itself. There would have been no 2nd gen Pokemon in Melee under its original guidelines. Villager and Link both use outdated character designs.
I would argue the opposite--if you really want to speak "need," Marth is all Fire Emblem truly needs--he is emblematic of all Fire Emblem heroes and absolutely is its main symbol. Every other character on top of that is extra, like any other franchise.
But of course, every other franchise has to prove it should have another character, but Fire Emblem always "needs."
I would argue the opposite--if you really want to speak "need," Marth is all Fire Emblem truly needs--he is emblematic of all Fire Emblem heroes and absolutely is its main symbol. Every other character on top of that is extra, like any other franchise.
But of course, every other franchise has to prove it should have another character, but Fire Emblem always "needs."
DICKS AHOY
Banned
As someone who *really* wanted Geno back during the Brawl days as a kid; who gives a shit about Geno anymore?I know how much you all love 4chan rumors. Let's humor this one
I still maintain he'd be a neat throwback as an AT tho.
MrSaturn99
Member
I just want some SMRPG music. Is that so much to ask, Square?
Yes, but that was Fire Emblem's introduction into Smash Bros., so it made sense to use the original and most popular character. Melee couldn't afford to include two Fire Emblem newcomers at once. Fire Emblem was also a very small, Japan-only series at the time. Now that the roster has expanded to such a large size there isn't any reason for Fire Emblem to feel outdated. "Need" is a strong word, and I'm embellishing for the sake of argument, but if any series warrants a newcomer with each installment it's Fire Emblem.
Yeah, because of time constraints. Sakurai said that he only made cuts out of necessity.
I'm specifically talking about the characters themselves, not their designs. Link is Link and Villager is Villager, regardless of what they look like -- some incarnation of Link starred in the most recent Zelda game, and some incarnation of Villager starred in the most recent Animal Crossing. Marth and Ike and Robin are completely unrelated characters.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
Just have the new FE character be an AT or something unless they have a good good new style for a moveset. The moment new token reps stop being added is the moment all the fans stop arguing that they "need" to be added every game and start arguing that they don't!
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I thought Ness was in Melee because Mother 64 was more or less fucked at that point?
That has less to do with Melee having a tight schedule and more with Lucas' game not really existing by the time Melee was due to come out.
That has less to do with Melee having a tight schedule and more with Lucas' game not really existing by the time Melee was due to come out.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Red Arremer
Member
September 31 is the last day before Smarch. Don't you know anything heath.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
A series that has historically sold less than 250k per release hardly warrants a newcomer each installment. Then somebody will come in and say "But Awakening was super successful" even though the 3DS port of Donkey Kong Country Returns still managed to sell better and all it got was one lousy stage. Then somebody else will come in and say "sales don't matter" to justify the disproportionate amount of Fire Emblem content. The argument always seems to change depending on what's being discussed. On one hand, you have the people who justify Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion because "Wii Fit sold amazingly well and deserved representation", but then when you ask why the Donkey Kong series only has two reps even though it's the fourth largest Nintendo IP behind Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda, they'll turn around and say "sales mean nothing". Five Fire Emblem characters puts the franchise on par with Zelda and ahead of Donkey Kong, Kirby, Metroid, and Star Fox. But that's okay because the characters keep changing every time. Now you want more? Bull. Shit. Where's my Donkey Kong Country 3 "rep"?
Honestly, I was surprised that Ike was still in this game. Lucina's unique thing is that she is a marth clone storywise as well. Lucina works well as she is a non tipper for tipper Marth.
Biggest thing against those two is Takumi and Leon are the two most popular chars in the game (well Kamui/corrin wasn't in the famitsu poll so I'd discount that). I def could see Takumi in the next game as an AT.
Green Mamba
Member
The only franchise I really think warrants a newcomer each game is Pokemon, because seriously--it's Pokemon. A Fire Emblem newcomer in each Smash forever is absurd. Unless Sakurai actually starts culling Fire Emblem characters like he does Pokemon I don't see another Fire Emblem newcomer as anything but unwarranted. It's not even a feeling of undeserving or anything, but if Smash 5 comes with another Fire Emblem character while Donkey Kong, Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, Zelda, etc. are left to rot again then I wouldn't blame anyone bothered by it for bitching.
I mean I get this complaint and I don't. Fire Emblem has a gigantic cast of playable characters (think it's about 400ish or so now) compared to all the games you mentioned with easily thought of move sets. If Zelda had a different protag each game (the Links just don't vary that much), I'd think they would all be in. That being said, I"m surprised Impa isn't in the game (or we don't have a Tetra/Toon Zelda in the game)
I do think Donkey Kong will eventually get a new rep in either Dixie or a new villain character that they like. The problem isn't that Fire Emblem has too many reps, it's just the other series doesn't have the reps that Sakurai likes.
Green Mamba
Member
F-Zero has an incredibly diverse cast of thirty main drivers but only one playable character in Smash, a huge amount of potential is essentially meaningless, especially when a good amount of them are absolute nobodies.
But even beyond that, Fire Emblem doesn't even have its newest main character in SSB4--both of Smash's newcomers are secondary characters to Chrom. How far are we willing to jump down that rabbit hole just to have something new and shiny each time?
Of course, everything always just kinda rolls Fire Emblem's way.
NeonZ
Member
That number is pretty off though. The only game that sold bellow 250k was FE5. Even if you just mean Japanese numbers, the only ones there too would be FE9 and 10.
Awakening's last known numbers are higher than Returns 3d (1.79 million vs 1.52 million) - although we're talking about December 2014 vs March 2014.
And really, using sales here is rather misleading. The characters Donkey Kong fans ask for only appeared recently in a game that underperformed (Tropical Freeze) or have no recent releases to their name at all.
Fire Emblem pretty much is consistently ahead of Metroid and Star Fox nowadays. Fates in Japan by itself has already sold more than half a million. Donkey Kong is another matter. In spite of Tropical Freeze, it could potentially still recover. Still, it's true that looking only from a sales point of view Fire Emblem is overrepresented. However, in this case, there are some special conditions there. You mention the 5th character, but we'd never have gotten Roy in the first place if he hadn't been a Melee veteran, and even Lucina is a character promoted from alternate costume with the minimal amount of effort necessary to make her a separate character, having less unique animations than any other clone in the series.
Robin pretty much takes over the story after the time skip though, to the point
that Robin's "ending" is the good ending with no disadvantages compared to Chrom's.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
It's debatable how much Chrom is the main character over Robin. Robin is the one you spend the most time with, after all, and the story is as much his/her as it is Chrom's.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The rule of thumb is that whoever has the most Social Links pair ups is the protagonist.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
"New villain character that they like? Are we really entertaining that any DK villain but K. Rool should be in? All hail lord Fredrik! Tiki Tong torches the tribe!
in b4 Mario is already in the game
Also snaps for Gonzo for calling out the hypocricy of roster defense
I'm of the opinion if that they wanted K Rool in he would have been in a long time ago, and yes I don't think they like Fredrik or Tiki Tong either.
Green Mamba
Member
Debatable, but Chrom was Sakurai's initial go to Fire Emblem character before realizing how boring he'd be. Even beyond story importance or game functionality, Chrom is the de facto lead of the game by a marketing stand point, much like however much people claim Ashe is the lead of Final Fantasy XII, Vaan's the lead as far as SE is concerned.
But even outside characters, Fire Emblem, for some inexplicable reason, has a new stage in both versions while most veteran franchises don't. So we have both of Brawl's veterans returning, a newcomer, a new clone, a returning clone as DLC, a returning stage, and two new stages across both versions. Meanwhile, Zelda has essentially sat stagnant with its characters for two games (the amount of which Fire Emblem currently meets?!), Star Fox shrank, and Donkey Kong can't even be arsed to get a fucking Assist Trophy. And now Fire Emblem "needs a newcomer." Yeah, okay.
gutter_trash
Banned
two randoms quit on a weekly heroic. im at the boss portion of Shield bros..
anyone wanna jump in.?
psn jerky
anyone wanna jump in.?
psn jerky
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Super Smash Bros. is where all of Nintendo's most popular franchises duke it out!
And Fire Emblem.
And Fire Emblem.
I'm of the opinion that Fire Emblem* and franchises like Donkey Kong should get newcomers, full stop. I hate this idea that the roster has to be cleanly set up based on really wacky rules at the same time that I do feel like the DK series has gotten a raw deal overall.
What I really hate though is this franchise fan base in fighting that comes along every time a new Smash entrant discussion rolls around. It's like... Why?
What I really hate though is this franchise fan base in fighting that comes along every time a new Smash entrant discussion rolls around. It's like... Why?
Exceptions for FE are that we don't get another damn Marth-ling and they actually go full hog making a move set with whatever said character bring to the table instead of stopping halfway like they did with Robin.
The poster backtracked on the need part and I think you are focusing too much on that word. Fire Emblem does benefit from the Smash Brother presence working as advertising for it's game, and that's what he's inferring the need for.
Robin wasn't plastered on the marketing for Fire Emblem, because they kept his/her figure deliberately hidden as they wanted to emphasize that you could select his/her gender and customize the character.
edit. Replaced harping with focused ... didn't mean to attack at all, and could see how harping would be considered an attack.
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, I apologize for going too far in there, it's been a rotten day over here.
MrSaturn99
Member
Didn't Sakurai himself refer to Chrom as the main character in that one Famitsu column?
I think we can all agree Donkey Kong is underrepresented, right?
I think we can all agree Donkey Kong is underrepresented, right?
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
So with Star Foz Zero delayed... what does this mean for Wolf?
Nothing to apologize for, and Nintendo does consider Chrom the main char so you are definitely right on that point, but at the same time they heavily neuter him in the game.
Still has to be in for the holiday season, have to get people to buy Smash for the holidays.
MrSaturn99
Member
It's possible they already began development on him way beforehand, but who knows.
...wasn't Falco's amiibo scheduled for the same day as Zero?
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