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[balladofwindfishes]

A new person isn't going to change Ganondorf all that much (nor add Ridley). Aonuma signed off on Brawl Ganondorf and helped Sakurai design him (along with the other Zelda characters). So it's not like Sakurai just did Ganondorf on his own without input from anyone. Brawl was the game where Ganondorf was at his absolute worst, and easily the worst character in the entire series. So uhhh... thanks Aonuma?

Also that "formula" was even true for Melee, other than 1 and 5, which makes sense since 64 and Melee came out very close to one another. And the stat thing wasn't really a concept yet. 6 was especially funny for Melee, because the stages were kind of poorly ported. Their scale was way wrong, and the AI is completely broken on Yoshi's Story 64. 4 is Adventure Mode, which, despite nostalgia, is actually not all that good and a massive chore to do for every character. For 2 you have Bowser, balanced for 4 player FFAs, while Kirby and Pichu (and a bunch of other characters) are just not ever going to do well in a tournament. It's more obvious now because there's more characters, so of course there would be more bad characters, but Smash 4 is actually the most balanced game in the series, as far as character diversity is concerned. Only the very bottom of the bottom are really awful, and even then, someone like Swordfighter is at the bottom, but may not actually deserve to be there, just there from a lack of use.

 

[MrSaturn99]

It's not that Sakurai is irreplaceable (I mean, he's gotta go eventually) as it is his job isn't just something anyone can do. At the very least, I doubt some random NOA employee could do what he's accomplished half as well, haha.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

I mean the formula applies for Melee but it was so fresh back then and I think that freshness really stuck with people and keeps Melee being their favorite game even after so many years. Like it was such a big shift from 64 that it just drove everyone wild with excitement. A similar kind of fresh, good approach could have the same affect with a new title

I would like to see Sakurai onboard still for his ethic and experience but not in a leader role, or on a role where he's one of three or so leaders with all equal power. Something as vast as Nintendo's history should not come down to one man's vision; no one man should have all that power, as Kanye says

 

[kirby_fox]

Please do not freak out about my thought because it is not from a place of malice it is trying to look at if Smash is as good as it can be or if it has hit a rut, that's not such a bad thing right?

I recall Sakurai mentioning before Brawl that if he had not come back on, the plan was simply to take Melee and add in more characters by a random team. The problem of course being that, if Nintendo was choosing characters instead of Sakurai, we probably would get flavor of the week stuff. Chrom would have been a shoe in, while Robin/Lucina wouldn't have been anywhere near the game. A character like Geno that vocal fans wanted could have been added. We'd probably have a ton of Mario characters in the game, while having Jigglypuff, Ness and Capt. Falcon cut.

I think that's the fear of letting someone else takeover. Sure, maybe someone would add new things in that are actually great. Or, we're going to see a bunch of characters added that no one wants rather than fan favorites. We get no new items whatsoever, and a focus on 1v1-- which while I'm sure some people want that, it isn't what Smash is. Finding the balance between random characters to add (Wii Fit Trainer) versus newer characters with uniqueness (Robin) versus classic characters (Duck Hunt) and finding the casual v. competitive balance is hard to do when you only have so much time to make a game. Sakurai is pretty good at finding that balance.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If EAD made Smash, the Metal Mario Dream would be real /s

EAD is garbage at making rosters. The Mario Kart rosters in recent years have been jokes. 8's roster is absolutely dreadful, and DLC didn't help much (three clones and three non-Mario characters). They really thought we needed four different Marios, four different Peaches, two Rosalinas, two Daisies (both babies of which are entirely made up), two Luigis and two Bowsers? Along with all Koopalings. But no Jr, no Diddy, no Dry Bones, no Birdo. What the heck EAD?

Mario Kart 64 is the only Mario Kart in the series whose never had a character from it cut.

I don't want them anywhere near deciding who gets into Smash.

 

[PK Gaming]

Just replace "still here" with "still talking about Ganondorf..."

 

[NeonZ]

I disagree with the idea that Sakurai cannot be replaced and it is disingenuous to claim no one can do what he does, since no one has had the chance to try (someday they will tho and I hope they feel comfortable to experiment and not just follow the past game formula)

I'm not saying that no one can do what he does, well, I guess I'm saying that in a way. The issue that I see is that if he's replaced, I think that a lot of what makes Smash actually Smash could easily end up changed.

Just look at the transitions from one Mario Kart to another to see how another team handles elements like character selection and reused assets in a continuous series very differently and how it could end up drastically different from the Smash that we know. Or even, regarding character selection, look at the Mario Maker Mystery Costumes that aren't tied to Amiibos (where they couldn't resist throwing a bunch of generic Mario enemies, although I guess at least there are no babies).

Unless they specifically set out to emulate Sakurai, it's very unlikely that you'd get someone from Nintendo who'd fix Sakurai's weakness while still otherwise preserving Smash. I'm not saying it'd be bad, I just think it'd be a very different game overall. And, on the other hand, if they set out to emulate Sakurai, it's very likely that many elements that you consider weakness in his direction choices would still remain. You even mention someone from NoA taking over the game, which is just extremely unlikely. NoA isn't an important developer anymore and someone from there would never headline something as big as a Smash sequel.

4. Make some resource consuming single player mode

SSB4 basically doesn't have this though, which is actually something I dislike about it. Adventure mode would be the place where they'd have the biggest freedom to innovate and improve the game, and yet Sakurai just gave up after the weak reception of Subspace Emissary by the dedicated Smash community.

We get no new items whatsoever, and a focus on 1v1-- which while I'm sure some people want that, it isn't what Smash is.

Eh... We're talking about Nintendo. I think it'd be easier for the competitive community to be shafted than more casual players. Still, I don't think they'd be that blind.

 

[TheDinoman]

If you sit down and really think about it, Smash Run's maze segment is basically an abridged version of SSE's gameplay condensed into five minutes.

They basically play the same, platforming and running around a generic looking environment beating up some goons, except it's much shorter and obviously doesn't have an overarching narrative. It even reuses some assets from SSE, such as a handful of Subspace Army enemies and the barrel cannons.

At the very least, they had the decency to include proper Nintendo enemies from actual games, like Goombas, Re-deads, Bulborbs, etc. I like some of the general combat improvements as well, such as the fact that you can actually grab and pummel enemies like you could with a regular player character.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Yeah I'm hoping they're secretly working on an Adventure Mode as DLC. I know it's a long shot but some substantial single player content (the Special Orders modes I only play if I'm trying to unlock something) would be amazing.

 

[Azure J]

Blondes in Street Fighter are the "too many swordsmen" of Smash.

I'm loving the "Blond Fighter" tag myself. No matter what pre-release it is, character roster discussion gets so fucking nutty. :lol

On a slight tangent, I hopped over to Smashboards and took a peek into their Rate Their Chance thread (a thing they do from time to time checking user thoughts on who's next and who they want to see in) and today's subject was Lyn.

I think today marks the first time in the last 7 years that people were straight up hating the idea of her joining. At one point people were saying they wanted Takamaru more than her. It felt so surreal.

 

[kirby_fox]

Eh... We're talking about Nintendo. I think it'd be easier for the competitive community to be shafted than more casual players. Still, I don't think they'd be that blind.

With the current outlook on attempting to make the game competitive, I could see the result with someone new to look at Smash and say "I can make this better than Melee competitively" and strive for that. A lot of fans are doing mods that somewhat attempted that, but there are huge flaws there too.

Let's play a game GAF: you're put in charge of Smash 5. What do you choose to do? Remember, you cannot make this game perfect so you'll have to cut some fat somewhere in the process due to time constraints and budget-- so if you add a bunch of alt costumes you'll have to cut characters.

I would personally focus on the main game at hand-- balancing characters without changing too much of what they are and adding in as many new characters I could. new items would show up, as would custom Final Smashes and easier ways to unlock customs. Clones would get de-cloned if time permitted. We would get classic mode back to how it used to be and have alpha stages take priority over omega stages (turns off hazards) but preferably have both. I would attempt to get YouTube uploads to be a lot larger than they are to include full matches and make online a priority for those interested in it. I would add an adventure mode similar to Smash Run. Smash Tour, Stage builder, Crazy/Master Orders, and Masterpieces would probably be cut. You could probably also count out Trophy Rush- but instead have an in-game store for trophies, custom moves and badges.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

People are tired of Fire Emblem characters. I don't think Smash 5 will have a new one, either.

 

[Ryce]

I just really want a samurai character. It's the most common swordfighter archetype that isn't represented in Smash Bros. Ideally, I'd like to see Takamaru with Samurai Goroh as a slower, heavier semi-clone.

 

[Azure J]

People are tired of Fire Emblem characters. I don't think Smash 5 will have a new one, either.

I am personally blaming Lucina and Roy fans for this one. Sorry guys, I love you, but this is the Bad Future you're responsible for.

I just really want a samurai character. It's the most common swordfighter archetype that isn't represented in Smash Bros. Ideally, I'd like to see Takamaru with Samurai Goroh as a slower, heavier semi-clone.

Yeah, and I sincerely hope that the samurai chosen goes full iai/draw from hip style with their sword play. Not that kendo isn't hype, but man, I'm a hopeless Rurouni Kenshin kid on the inside and we already have enough fencers around.

With the current outlook on attempting to make the game competitive, I could see the result with someone new to look at Smash and say "I can make this better than Melee competitively" and strive for that. A lot of fans are doing mods that somewhat attempted that, but there are huge flaws there too.

Let's play a game GAF: you're put in charge of Smash 5. What do you choose to do? Remember, you cannot make this game perfect so you'll have to cut some fat somewhere in the process due to time constraints and budget-- so if you add a bunch of alt costumes you'll have to cut characters.

I would personally focus on the main game at hand-- balancing characters without changing too much of what they are and adding in as many new characters I could. new items would show up, as would custom Final Smashes and easier ways to unlock customs. Clones would get de-cloned if time permitted. We would get classic mode back to how it used to be and have alpha stages take priority over omega stages (turns off hazards) but preferably have both. I would attempt to get YouTube uploads to be a lot larger than they are to include full matches and make online a priority for those interested in it. I would add an adventure mode similar to Smash Run. Smash Tour, Stage builder, Crazy/Master Orders, and Masterpieces would probably be cut. You could probably also count out Trophy Rush- but instead have an in-game store for trophies, custom moves and badges.

Make a bullet point list on what elements there are that can be chosen to enhance or neglect for the sake of this. I'm definitely interested in leaving some ideas but I need a guideline. :lol

 

[IntelliHeath]

I just really want a samurai character. It's the most common swordfighter archetype that isn't represented in Smash Bros. Ideally, I'd like to see Takamaru.

Me too. I'm not going to give up on him yet. After I heard about Sakurai's stance on Takamaru, so I still think he still have good chance in next iteration.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So it looks like even the mighty Metal Gear franchise is gone now, based on what that one guy who just quit said.

Snake

...Snake

SNAAAKKKEE

 

[IntelliHeath]

So it looks like even the mighty Metal Gear franchise is gone now, based on what that one guy who just quit said.

What?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What?

Julien Merceron, technology director overseeing the Fox Engine, quit Konami because there weren't any ambitious console projects in the future to work on.

 

[Azure J]

Julien Merceron, technology director overseeing the Fox Engine, quit Konami because there weren't any ambitious console projects in the future to work on.

Holy shit.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Julien Merceron, technology director overseeing the Fox Engine, quit Konami because there weren't any ambitious console projects in the future to work on.

Next time, please add the source (or the link) to the post when you made the post like that. I don't think MGS franchise would die anytime soon. They are more likely to outsource the project to other company for cheaper fee or turn them into Pachinko franchise.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Next time, please add the source (or the link) to the post when you made the post like that. I don't think MGS franchise would die anytime soon. They are more likely to outsource the project to other company for cheaper fee or turn them into Pachinko franchise.

I edited it in like, a second before you replied.

 

[backlot]

Next time, please add the source (or the link) to the post when you made the post like that. I don't think MGS franchise would die anytime soon. They are more likely to outsource the project to other company for cheaper fee or turn them into Pachinko franchise.

There's a link right in his first post.

But yeah, MGS might not be dead. Maybe the next one is just really unambitious.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I edited it in like, a second before you replied.

Sorry about that!

There's a link right in his first post.

It wasn't at first!

 

[AnkiRendan]

I just really want a samurai character. It's the most common swordfighter archetype that isn't represented in Smash Bros. Ideally, I'd like to see Takamaru with Samurai Goroh as a slower, heavier semi-clone.

Yeah I hope for Takamaru...or the Sakura Samurai. I want more Sakura Samurai music in the game.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Ideal Smash shouldn't be too tall an order because Melee had great single player only designed in like 13 months, and multiplayer that can be made to resemble Smash 4 a little more closely but not too extreme. I would love a Melee adventure type mode just with modern graphics and enemies and a few more platforming levels. Maybe a few more branching paths too, like where you can fight Luigi if you end the level with a 2 digit.

It's wrong that people just copy Sakurai in saying Melee was too hard; people like Chris Pranger vocally defend that but they make the mistake of only focusing on competitive scene even though they claim to be looking out for casuals. Casuals loved Melee and anecdoteally, the ones I know don't like Brawl. It doesn't need wavedashing but obnoxious fast rolls and balance based on Final Smashes can go bye bye yesterday, in my opinion.

But with characters "a balance between classic and random and modern characters" is just silly. That does not make the game great. Put in who fans want first! Then maybe one surprise. The fan liked characters are generally from different eras in Nintendo history any way.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I want to spend 550 minutes of Melee's Adventure Mode (~10 minutes a run) to unlock all the trophies if they added it to Smash 4. That wouldn't get old or drag on at all.

The roster has gotten too large for stuff like Melee style Target Test and Adventure Mode. It no longer becomes a fun single player mode, it becomes a chore. All Star and Classic are already teetering pretty close to becoming chores.

Smash Run with the ability to select the end game and adjust how long the adventure mode stage lasts would be nice though.

 

[Ryce]

But with characters "a balance between classic and random and modern characters" is just silly. That does not make the game great. Put in who fans want first!

I disagree. A careful balance between the expected and unexpected is for the best. Smash Bros. fans at large did not request Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Rosalina & Luma, or Ryu, but I really feel like those characters add immensely to the appeal of the game from both a gameplay and “Nintendo museum” standpoint.

 

[PK Gaming]

People are tired of Fire Emblem characters. I don't think Smash 5 will have a new one, either.

Ahahaha, no way dude. Think about who the director of Smash is.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Ahahaha, no way dude. Think about who the director of Smash is.

A person who has no relation to the FE series at all?

 

[PK Gaming]

A person who has no relation to the FE series at all?

Sakurai is a huge fan of Fire Emblem. The fact that he interviewed Toru Narihiro on Shadow Dragon (instead of Iwata), included Roy in Melee (before his appearance in FE6), retweeted Lucina figures on twitter, and defended Fire Emblem: Fates when it was under fire from criticism for the my unit controversy should at least indicate that.

No offense, but you're straight up delusional if you think Smash 5 won't have a new Fire Emblem character.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If the fans actively don't want a FE character, he has no reason to add one.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Sakurai will find a reason to put a new FE char in if he stays. Even if the protagonist is dull he'll use a supporting protagonist instead like he did this time. Also that character will probably overprioritize Roy in coming in, so FE will still sit at 4 reps.

I disagree. A careful balance between the expected and unexpected is for the best. Smash Bros. fans at large did not request Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Rosalina & Luma, or Ryu, but I really feel like those characters add immensely to the appeal of the game from both a gameplay and “Nintendo museum” standpoint.

I like those guys but not at the expense of Ridley or Toad or K. Rool. Put it this way, no one would complain about the roster being incomplete if those guys were on.

Melee adventure mode can have different paths per each series and be shorter to keep things interesting. You already have to do classic and all-star with all the roster and those modes got shortened, so why not try that out with adventure too? It'd be fun! Maybe even add bosses, just if they're not shunted from the roster for dumb reasons haha

 

[Ryce]

Sakurai also appeared at the FE 25th anniversary event to discuss the series. He loves Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem and Pokémon are rotational series that are almost completely refreshed with each new installment -- there's no way Robin is going to be the most recent FE character in a Smash Bros. released five years from now.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Sakurai will find a reason to put a new FE char in if he stays. Even if the protagonist is dull he'll use a supporting protagonist instead like he did this time. Also that character will probably overprioritize Roy in coming in, so FE will still sit at 4 reps.

They don't spend the time to update a Melee character to the modern age, only to never use them again. That would mean if Smash 6 wanted to use Roy, they'd have to, yet again, recreate him with no files to port. Roy (and Mewtwo) are not going anywhere.

Also if only Roy was cut, but a new character was added, FE would have 5 reps.

Also look at this proof Sakurai is literally the laziest worst incompetent dev in all of Japan

The Minister of Trade and Economy also recognized Masahiro Sakurai for his contributions to the gaming industry today. The award was decided on by a vote, and was handed to Sakurai by the cabinet minister himself. Sakurai later tweeted the picture of the awards and his cat Fukura.

 

[PK Gaming]

If the fans actively don't want a FE character, he has no reason to add one.

That's a pretty big (and pointless) if. Unfounded too, considering how crazy popular FE is in Japan, and how relatively popular it is here.

Sakurai also appeared at the FE 25th anniversary event to discuss the series. He loves Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem and Pokémon are rotational series that are almost completely refreshed with each new installment -- there's no way Robin is going to be the most recent FE character in a Smash Bros. released five years from now.

Word. And since the newest protagonist has an interesting skillset (he/she can turn into a dragon, like whoa) i'm sure he/she will bring a lot to the table.

 

[Green Mamba]

I would hope Sakurai isn't so boring that he decides he just automatically has to include a new Fire Emblem character every time.

But maybe he is, and in 2030 the roster will be half full of samey Fire Emblem characters, just because he likes it so much.

 

[jph139]

He doesn't need to add a new Fire Emblem character, but if he can put together an interesting moveset using a new character from a popular, iconic series (one that he's personally a big fan of), I can't imagine why he wouldn't.

New FE character and new Pokemon are the low-hanging fruit of the Smash roster. We'll be getting both for Smash 5 - I'd bet on it.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Well Roy is there but who out of Marth, Ike, Robin and New FE Rep does he unseat? Remember we all thought Ike was dead so Robin is staying. He will always be on the table but never a high priority. Really it's Lucina who he screws over, she is 100% gone next time I think, at least as a stand alone spot.

Sakurai winning awards =|= we can't talk about ways Smash can be better. George Lucas is a relevant example here.

 

[javadoze]

SSB4 basically doesn't have this though, which is actually something I dislike about it. Adventure mode would be the place where they'd have the biggest freedom to innovate and improve the game, and yet Sakurai just gave up after the weak reception of Subspace Emissary by the dedicated Smash community.

Yeah I'm hoping they're secretly working on an Adventure Mode as DLC. I know it's a long shot but some substantial single player content (the Special Orders modes I only play if I'm trying to unlock something) would be amazing.

The big disappointment to me about Subspace Emissary was how you can essentially play it once and never again. From that angle, I can see why Sakurai wanted to drop it after Brawl: it'd be a waste of resources if they did that again.

That said, some kind of single-player mode with better replayability would be pretty great.

Spoiler

I'm not saying Tower of Smash... But Tower of Smash...

Or make a Smash Bros version of Weapon Master mode from Soul Calibur 2. That'd be nice too...

 

[Ryce]

I would hope Sakurai isn't so boring that he decides he just automatically has to include a new Fire Emblem character every time.

It's not that he "automatically has to" -- in order to sufficiently represent the history of Fire Emblem it makes sense to include a recent character. I'm pretty sure every series in Smash Bros. has a character from its most recent game (as of the planning stages). Mario, Link, Kirby, and so on are always going to be the focal characters of their respective series, but Fire Emblem gets a new protagonist with each installment.

 

[Richie]

Or make a Smash Bros version of Weapon Master mode from Soul Calibur 2. That'd be nice too...

I loved that mode, but I think Smash has it covered with the Events. Their layout is even sooort of similar to that of Weapon Master mode! Plus, the Orders also play into this.

A Subspace Emissary mode would be freaking amazing, but they have to go for broke in replayability factor. Lots of secrets, New Game Plus bonuses, different things to find in some levels if you play as a specific character, tons of unlockables only available there from doing certain tasks....It'd be a gargantuan amount of effort, though, so who knows it it'll ever become feasible.

 

[Weebos]

They just need to stop picking sword users as Fire Emblem reps.

Of course, to do that they need to stop making them the main characters. At least Azura is a lance using heroine in the new game, but there will probably be another one before Smash 5.

 

[Green Mamba]

It's not that he "automatically has to" -- in order to sufficiently represent the history of Fire Emblem it makes sense to include a recent character. I'm pretty sure every series in Smash Bros. has a character from its most recent game (as of the planning stages). Mario, Link, Kirby, and so on are always going to be the focal characters of their respective series, but Fire Emblem gets a new protagonist with each installment.

That to me sounds like he automatically has to. Silly obligation or not, everything does seem to have a way of rolling Fire Emblem's way. Nothing against it per se, but when other series sit neglected in comparison that's going to rub someone the wrong way.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I was wondering what those trophies were for.

I would hope Sakurai isn't so boring that he decides he just automatically has to include a new Fire Emblem character every time.

But maybe he is, and in 2030 the roster will be half full of samey Fire Emblem characters, just because he likes it so much.

I thought Sakurai would pick Chrom over Robin, and look where we are now. Given his stance on the former I imagine he'll be looking some inspiration in future FE characters. Who knows if all five characters will still be around by then?

Sakurai winning awards =|= we can't talk about ways Smash can be better. George Lucas is a relevant example here.

I'm pretty sure most, if not all of the thread regulars (including myself) have criticized his decisions at some point. He's probably my favorite person working in the industry, but I'm not kidding myself in thinking he's perfect, lol.

 

[Ryce]

That to me sounds like he automatically has to. Silly obligation or not, everything does seem to have a way of rolling Fire Emblem's way. Nothing against it per se, but when other series sit neglected in comparison that's going to rub someone the wrong way.

Mario, DK, Link, Kirby, Samus, Fox, and so on are always going to be the focal characters of their respective franchises, so they aren't ever going to "need" newcomers. In order to keep up to date with Fire Emblem, Sakurai sort of has to include a newcomer every time. It has entirely to do with the nature of Fire Emblem as a series.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I hope the Shovel Knight rumour is real so that I can start repping Plague Knight for Smash 5.

Plague Knight feels so goooood.

Well Roy is there but who out of Marth, Ike, Robin and New FE Rep does he unseat? Remember we all thought Ike was dead so Robin is staying. He will always be on the table but never a high priority. Really it's Lucina who he screws over, she is 100% gone next time I think, at least as a stand alone spot.

Lucina is the most popular Fire Emblem character in a long time. Lucina is not going anywhere.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Lucina is the most popular Fire Emblem character in a long time. Lucina is not going anywhere.

The question here is, Would Lucina's moveset get changed or not?

 

[Regulus Tera]

The question here is, Would Lucina's moveset get changed or not?

She'll become a Captain Falcon clone.

 

[SenorArdilla]

The major thing going against Corrin/Azura is the fact that SSB5 is a long ways away unless there's more DLC.

1990
Marth (MC from first FE game)

1992
Alm (MC from FE:Gaiden)

1996
Sigurd/Seliph (MC from FE:Seisen no Keifu)

1999
Lief (MC from FE:Tharacia 776)

2001
(Melee comes out / Marth and Roy added)

2002
Roy (MC from FE:Binding Sword)

2003
Eliwood/Hector/Lyn (MC of FE:Blazing Sword)

2004
Ephraim/Eirika (MC of FE:Sacred Stones)

2005
Ike (MC from FEath of Radiance)

2007
Micaiah (MC from FE:Radiant Dawn)

2008
(Brawl comes out / Ike added / Roy removed)

2012
Chrom/Robin/Lucina (MC from FE:Awakening)

2014
(SSB4 comes out / Robin, Lucina, Roy added as DLC)

2015
Corrin/Azura (MC of FE:Fates)​

 

[Sponge]

I know how much you all love 4chan rumors. Let's humor this one