Gonzo The Great
Banned
For Christ's SAKE. It was an analogy.
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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For Christ's SAKE. It was an analogy.
Green Mamba
Member
If Chrom doesn't get in the game the ballot is a sham. Complete farce.
Sakurai has been known to disregard specific fan requested characters in the past. I wouldn't put choosing a loser early past him.
I also don't think the Clinton analogy is applicable here.
Pokemaniac
Member
Sure, that could happen. The ballot is largely irrelevant to that though. There aren't likely to be many moveset ideas coming through that at all, let alone good ones. The ballot wasn't really designed to take in that kind of information.
Sakurai can and does change his mind, but that doesn't mean that the Mii costume wasn't intended as a consolation prize. I could definitely see it being a realistic possibility that some of the Mii costumes were commissioned due to being relatively high in the ballot, but either not too high or characters that Sakurai didn't think would work/didn't like.
The ballot was meant to gather feedback from fans, but they are free to pick and choose which feedback they listen to.
Easy there friend, there's no need to get so worked up.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
More like complete false comparison cause Chrom got deconfirmed a year ago before the costume and was not requested much at all after then
About the move sets too, it is not so much that Sak would be missing ideas but that it is condescending as heck to decide 'nothing you can suggest to me will change my mind and I will not consider it even though I say every suggestion will be considered' that's a false promise
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I'm just sick of people parroting the same buzzwords ad nauseaum. "IT'S A SUGGESTION BOX!!!!!!" And what's your point? There are still suggestions to consider. One of my best K. Rool votes was cast in August. It would be patronizing as fuck to conclude "nothing these fans can submit to me can change my 'vision' at all". Yes, Sakurai could hypothetically pick a character that received five votes while completely disregarding K. Rool, but I don't believe the man is that out of touch.
Green Mamba
Member
Then change it to any other character. "If Heihachi isn't in this the ballot is a sham." Maybe not a popular character choice, but he was actually completely deconfirmed by Sakurai. And the ballot wasn't over, so obviously the ballot is just one big charade.
Interestingly
hilariously
The ultimate proof that people want what they can't have.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Heihachi was considered during pre-release alongside Chrom. He wasn't "deconfirmed" after the ballot started. Nothing was stopping people from voting for him. Nothing was stopping people from voting for characters like Ashley or Jeff either, other than fan made rules.
Green Mamba
Member
So what would be the absolute minimum proof to you that the ballot wasn't a sham?
This current conversation makes me happy I stood by what I wanted without caring about character status or fan made rules. I'll never forget having a "discussion" with a Smashboards mod over his stance that putting in a vote for a previously occurring character was tantamount to being inconsiderate/selfish because of the work put into them already. Some people really got enamored with the idea that this thing is a real ballot.
InaSnowBoundLand
Member
The hints by the users on twitter, if they are to be trusted, suggest Inklings will be revealed soon.
In terms of K. Rool, I don't believe that they made some last minute decision in terms of ballot choices. Development is constrained by time and money; accordingly, they probably had the team working on many things beyond what they've publicly released. It might be misleading since the ballot suggests every entry will be considered or counted, but it is what it is.
With regards to K.Rool, I think the more plausible alternative explanation for his Mii costume is that it was based on his notable popularity in the lead-up to the game's release. This might be why Chrom was chosen, as well. I doubt it was Chrom's standing in the ballot since his popularity for Smash Brothers "died" thanks to comments about the character from Sakurai himself (a fate similar to Ridley's). In fact, in terms of the ballot, Chrom is essentially non-entity in community polls. Note that while it is fair to point out that these polls oversample the "hardcore" community, it is this very point that helps reasonably discern Chrom's fate: if he had any support at all, it would show up in these polls of more dedicated fans. After all, Fire Emblem is not a particularly well-known series outside of hardcore Nintendo fans. Casual voters that would be missed by the sampling design in community polls probably would not be voting for a Fire Emblem character in the first place.
Personally, I feel positive about K. Rool's chances after the recent Mii costume wave. Once again, it seems that other than Inklings, K. Rool is apparently the only ballot popular character with a Mii costume. This is significant because if the Mii costume is serving as a "consolation prize" in response to ballot votes, it does not make much sense that K. Rool would be the only "lucky" character to receive this attention. After all, most characters popular in the ballot will not be in the game. I find this is the best point against the "consolation prize" argument because it is tied to empirical outcomes (other Mii costumes). It is an evaluation of a theory that, at the very least, should at least apply to more than one character. I have not heard of convincing reason as to why K. Rool should be considered the "exception".
In terms of K. Rool, I don't believe that they made some last minute decision in terms of ballot choices. Development is constrained by time and money; accordingly, they probably had the team working on many things beyond what they've publicly released. It might be misleading since the ballot suggests every entry will be considered or counted, but it is what it is.
With regards to K.Rool, I think the more plausible alternative explanation for his Mii costume is that it was based on his notable popularity in the lead-up to the game's release. This might be why Chrom was chosen, as well. I doubt it was Chrom's standing in the ballot since his popularity for Smash Brothers "died" thanks to comments about the character from Sakurai himself (a fate similar to Ridley's). In fact, in terms of the ballot, Chrom is essentially non-entity in community polls. Note that while it is fair to point out that these polls oversample the "hardcore" community, it is this very point that helps reasonably discern Chrom's fate: if he had any support at all, it would show up in these polls of more dedicated fans. After all, Fire Emblem is not a particularly well-known series outside of hardcore Nintendo fans. Casual voters that would be missed by the sampling design in community polls probably would not be voting for a Fire Emblem character in the first place.
Personally, I feel positive about K. Rool's chances after the recent Mii costume wave. Once again, it seems that other than Inklings, K. Rool is apparently the only ballot popular character with a Mii costume. This is significant because if the Mii costume is serving as a "consolation prize" in response to ballot votes, it does not make much sense that K. Rool would be the only "lucky" character to receive this attention. After all, most characters popular in the ballot will not be in the game. I find this is the best point against the "consolation prize" argument because it is tied to empirical outcomes (other Mii costumes). It is an evaluation of a theory that, at the very least, should at least apply to more than one character. I have not heard of convincing reason as to why K. Rool should be considered the "exception".
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Assurance that the K. Rool Mii costume released three months before the ballot ended wasn't a consolation prize.
I respect you immensely for sticking by Takamaru until the end. That's what a true fan would do!
Green Mamba
Member
Just K.Rool?
Masked Man
I said wow
Completely agreed. I need this in Smash!
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Like InaSnowBoundLand said, "Once again, it seems that other than Inklings, K. Rool is apparently the only ballot popular character with a Mii costume."
So yes. Unless you're convinced that Black Knight, Flying Man, and Viridi were doing well in the ballot. And on that note, take a look at this. Other than the third party characters, every costume represents a character who already has an existing role in the game. Except, of course, Inkling and K. Rool. It's no coincidence that they are arguably the two most highly requested Nintendo characters. Had they released an Isaac Mii Swordfighter costume last week, maybe I would have taken the consolation prize argument more seriously.
Black Knight - Smash Tour item
Captain Falcon - Playable character
Chrom - Robin's Final Smash
Dunban - Shulk's Final Smash
Flying Man - Stage hazard
Fox - Playable character
Isabelle - Assist Trophy
Link - Playable character
Samus - Playable character
Toad - Peach's standard special
Viridi - Background cameo
Inkling - Trophy
King K. Rool - Trophy
Akira - Third party
Heihachi - Third party
Hunter - Third party
Jacky - Third party
Lloyd - Third party
Proto Man - Third party
Rathalos - Third party
X - Third party
WiiRevolution1
Member
I think if Shovel Knight gets in we can all agree the Ballot wasn't a sham. lol.
Yep. I voted for Viola from The Wtch's House. Zero fucks given about "mah rules" even if she has basically no chance.
i'd argue that Toad, Loyd, and Monster Hunter may have also been high in the poll and "consolation prizes". Hardcore Tales people could've voted for Loyd, Monster Hunter defined the 3DS in Japan and has tons of fans, and Toad is likely the most casual character. As in: from a Casual Nintendo fan, seeing the Smash roster and learning about the ballot, would vote on Toad since he is probably the most recognizable Nintendo character not in Smash. The difference is you don't see these characters much online, possibly due to noone bothering posting about them voting for these characters due to aforementioned "mah rules". (Or casuals as mentioned.)
There are far to many things to consider to say definitely if these characters were "consolation prizes" or "heres the most popular pre 4 characters" there is no way to really tell if these characters were high in the ballot or not.
TDLink
Member
Sure, getting a Mii costume is better than nothing and could be seen as a "consolation prize" in the event that they don't get a full character...but I don't think it's any indication at all that they won't be a full character.
In the event that K Rool or Inklings or whoever doesn't get in, yes having a Mii costume for them is a cool consolation prize. But just the fact that a costume exists does not somehow lower their chances of actually being a full playable character. It's awesome that people like Akira or Dunban who never had a real chance at least get a Mii Costume. But at the same time Link and Samus have costumes, and they are clearly full playable characters. The Mii costumes aren't indications of anything. They're cool to have if the character is not otherwise playable, but have no real bearing on a character's eligibility for being playable.
In the event that K Rool or Inklings or whoever doesn't get in, yes having a Mii costume for them is a cool consolation prize. But just the fact that a costume exists does not somehow lower their chances of actually being a full playable character. It's awesome that people like Akira or Dunban who never had a real chance at least get a Mii Costume. But at the same time Link and Samus have costumes, and they are clearly full playable characters. The Mii costumes aren't indications of anything. They're cool to have if the character is not otherwise playable, but have no real bearing on a character's eligibility for being playable.
Black Knight saw popularity back in the Brawl days, as did Lloyd Irving. Chrom was a popular choice before Smash 4 release. There was talk over Isabelle being in before Villager was shown, and KK Slider was popular back in the day too as an Animal Crossing rep. The Hunter has been an idea thrown around a lot too.
I don't believe the ballot is all they're drawing from here for costumes. They seem to be choosing popular characters overall (minus the odd Flying Man costume, I never heard anyone suggesting Flying Man as a character) that are for the most part quick to turn into costumes. Even K Rool had a trophy in the game.
The only reason I put doubt on K Rool is less because of his costume, and more the other costumes that we got. The others are popular choices or were at one point, but don't seem to be characters who would become playable for one reason or another (Inklings aside that is). So we have to figure out-- is K Rool grouped with the others or grouped with Inklings? Statistically, he's more likely grouped with the others- thus making it look like this is "consolation prize" rather than anything else.
But yes, for all we know Sakurai turns around and shows us Chrom is now playable and throws all of this out the window.
I don't believe the ballot is all they're drawing from here for costumes. They seem to be choosing popular characters overall (minus the odd Flying Man costume, I never heard anyone suggesting Flying Man as a character) that are for the most part quick to turn into costumes. Even K Rool had a trophy in the game.
The only reason I put doubt on K Rool is less because of his costume, and more the other costumes that we got. The others are popular choices or were at one point, but don't seem to be characters who would become playable for one reason or another (Inklings aside that is). So we have to figure out-- is K Rool grouped with the others or grouped with Inklings? Statistically, he's more likely grouped with the others- thus making it look like this is "consolation prize" rather than anything else.
But yes, for all we know Sakurai turns around and shows us Chrom is now playable and throws all of this out the window.
Because we need more Fire Emblem characters.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The Flying Man costume almost assuredly exists because the Flying Man in the 3DS version was originally a 3D model, and it would have made it very easy to adapt the model for a Mii costume.
Masked Man
I said wow
I feel the same way. All they had to do was create a Wii U version and voila!
So Nintendo Direct next week with annoucement of a Nintendo character for Smash ?
You know ... it is too obvious....
https://twitter.com/NintendoTweet/status/651365530838933504
You know ... it is too obvious....
https://twitter.com/NintendoTweet/status/651365530838933504
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Eh, if the moveset is already halfway there, why not? Maybe if they have extra time before they disband.
The same NoA who we were told never leaks things? Are you saying Chris Pranger died for nothing?
kuroneko0509
Member
i don't see how that tweet is related with potential nintendo direct....
Red Arremer
Member
A Link to the Past
Banned
So what even is the rumour?
Red Arremer
Member
Apparently Nintendo is going to have something big in store for us in the coming weeks. There's implications that it might include Smash to some degree.
I wouldn't pay any heed to any of it if it was just one or two people, but you know what they say about smoke and fire. Seems to be odd so many people on Twitter are getting fidgety around the same time.
I wouldn't pay any heed to any of it if it was just one or two people, but you know what they say about smoke and fire. Seems to be odd so many people on Twitter are getting fidgety around the same time.
Dr. Buni
Member
Even if we don't get Smash news in a potential Direct, the stuff about Octolings playable in Splatoon would already satisfy me.
Platy is a she.He was trying to be cute.
Red Arremer
Member
Thanks for correcting me, though I will probably forget it if it ever came up in the future again. I know it'd be better if used neutral pronouns, but old habits die hard, and my general assumption that people are male on here is one of those. :/
Neoriceisgood
Member
Haven't heard much noise from the neogaf wonder red brigade, you guys finally give up on your pipe dream recently?
Also I'm so bloody curious who'll make it in.
Also I'm so bloody curious who'll make it in.
You must have missed all the 'the ballot is ending!' threads.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah about that, Sukapon was apparently a poll winner for "Smash II" and Ice Climber wasn't.
I think Chrom, Viridi, Lloyd, Isabelle, Monster Hunter, Toad, and yes, K. Rool were all popular suggestions before and during the ballot. I think their popularity is the biggest reason for their inclusion as costumes. Particularly in Japan, where they're all well-loved games/series/characters.
Does this mean they can't or won't be included as full-fledged characters? Of course not. But it's like Ridley's shadow or Chrom in Robin's Final Smash - a heavy indication of their ultimate fate. "If they were planning X, why would they also do Y?"
Does this mean they can't or won't be included as full-fledged characters? Of course not. But it's like Ridley's shadow or Chrom in Robin's Final Smash - a heavy indication of their ultimate fate. "If they were planning X, why would they also do Y?"
Neoriceisgood
Member
Oh is that where they went? I decided to ignore those to protect my own health and mind.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Geno fans got themselves worked into a frenzy over how Geno placed on the Brawl ballot that trying to explain why Geno probably won't be added was futile.
Neoriceisgood
Member
The best way to deal with Geno fans is to remind them that Goku is factually more likely to make it in.
But make sure to only ever discuss Goku in the context of Geno.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
Here we go with the dumb damn Geno similes again :/
Well of course those are popular if your metric for popular is that they are not literally despised. Like 95% of Nintendo characters are popular in their own way but very few of them did well in any one of the 100s of fan polls fans did, which you can ignore all you want but they are there and none have any of those characters doing well except K.Rool and Inkling
Well of course those are popular if your metric for popular is that they are not literally despised. Like 95% of Nintendo characters are popular in their own way but very few of them did well in any one of the 100s of fan polls fans did, which you can ignore all you want but they are there and none have any of those characters doing well except K.Rool and Inkling
Do you have access to the same results, in multiple languages, as Sakurai and his team? If so, I'd love to see them. Playing "your hearsay is better than mine" doesn't accomplish anything - and that's what random internet fan polls amount to. Hearsay.
You can continue to believe we live in a world where K. Rool is a beloved icon that Nintendo fans been desperate to see return for years, and Monster Hunter is a niche franchise that barely ranks, but I think any rational person outside of the Smash Bros. echo chamber would agree that we don't.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also a reminder that you got people who has this mindset that "they'd rather vote someone popular than the one they like because they'd rather not 'waste' their vote".
Dr. Buni
Member
A mindset I can understand, but I don't agree with. For example, I voted for Kirby's Adeleine, even though from that point of view, it was a "wasted vote". I know for sure I wasn't the only one to vote for her and even though she probably got less than 10 votes at most, that will at least show Sakurai there's interest for Kirby characters not named Bandana Waddle Dee and Magolor. So I don't consider it a wasted vote.
On the other hand, my vote for the Inklings wasn't needed at all, I think... Their popularity and Splatoon's success are enough to guarantee a "slot" for them in Smash.
What I gathered from the tweets was that, if they're not trolling us...
- This character is a newcomer.
- This character is popular, but may not be the #1 character on the ballot.
- This character would make a lot of buzz in social media.
- This character is a first-party character.
- This character's inclusion shouldn't be a surprise.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Wonder Red fails the last bullet point. In fact basically all characters except Inkling and Wolf fail the last bullet point.
That's what I said (Wonder Red would be quite the surprise), & the fact that they said that the character is a newcomer rules out Wolf. The Inklings are the only ones who fit the bill, now.
Either way, we're supposedly going to find out who it is in 2 weeks, so it won't be long before we know if they're full of shit or not.
Triforce141
Member
I don't know why I'm feeling this, but I think Inklings could be a reason why we haven't seen a new dlc character in a while, because they had to be built as a newcomer like Ryu, given how they suddenly exploded in popularity after Splatoon's release, them being held back so Sakurai could see how they fare in the ballot would have seem a waste, so he and Nintendo probably started concepts and development of them around July or so.
So it would've taken a whole lot more time to develop, and other potential veterans like Wolf, and other newcomers were put on low priority until Inklings were finished, with the latter 2 being worked on right now.
Edit: If they do get in, having Disruptors that kind of work like Diddy's Banana gimping for a special would be very interesting.
So it would've taken a whole lot more time to develop, and other potential veterans like Wolf, and other newcomers were put on low priority until Inklings were finished, with the latter 2 being worked on right now.
Edit: If they do get in, having Disruptors that kind of work like Diddy's Banana gimping for a special would be very interesting.
Woomy, woomy, woomy.
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