balladofwindfishes
Member
And you've listed every difference between them. Now list the differences between Melee Falco and Brawl Falco 
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The difference here is that StarFox hasn't established the existence of multiple Falcos across the timeline. Young Link and the Link from the original games are very clearly not the same person.And you've listed every difference between them. Now list the differences between Melee Falco and Brawl Falco
balladofwindfishes
Member
But are the same Smash character. Link and Zelda aren't the same person between Melee and Brawl either.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I agree. I'd rather have Young Link as default.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
At least Zelda still lives on... as Sheik.
I think there's enough ambiguity in the earlier appearances to not immediately discount "adult" Link as something that only existed post-OoT - Zelda 2 chose to portray him as an older teenager closer to SS than MM; and the Katsuya Terada artwork for ALTTP and LA also helped reinforce the idea of a Link in that age group. He may have actually been intended to be a child in those games, but he wasn't always marketed that way - the readiness which the older OoT Link was accepted as the 'default' shows how close that portrayal was to the way he was already perceived beforehand; whereas similar cases of explicitly aging up characters, like Old Snake, usually don't stick as part of the 'standard' depiction.
Red Arremer
Member
It's not "a few Hudson properties", it's literally one, and on top of that it's a super obscure Japan-only IP. I seriously wouldn't read anything into this at all. It's not like we're talking about one of Hudson's main franchises, let alone Konami's.
This means nothing.
It sounds reassuring to see several of Hudson Soft's IP's being resurrected, but I don't see how Nintendo/Bandai Namco can negotiate with bringing over Simon or Solid Snake into SSB WII U/3DS.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I didn't say that.
It is just my hope that Nintendo would ask Konami that they could make a deal to bring Snake in Smash 4 via DLC.
Dr. Buni
Member
Yeah. I think a "Wonder Team" character is more likely than Wonder Red himself. Wonder Red by himself wouldn't represent the nature of The Wonderful 101 very well. Though I think it would be Red/Blue/Pink instead of Red/Blue/Pink/Green.
I agree.
Btw I wish we had a kid Zelda in Smash. We have the boring adult Link and Toon Link. We have the dead inside Zelda from TP, but no Toon or kid Zelda
Geminosity
Member
She can rapidly cast minor stuff without the wand, as evident from her shoot-em-up game in Game & Wario where she destroys cookies with just a spell from one hand. She only uses Red in wand form to cast big spells as far as I can tell. She seems ill-suited to most of the current mii-fighter movesets which is why I was suggesting we could do with a few more mii-fighters movesets like a mage and a musician/singer :3 (Why musician? I always play bard in D&D and love attacking stuff with music notes in the few games that offer it XD )
I couldn't help but notice that while the new Mario Maker 3DS cover had tonnes of the character costumes on it, including inkling, marth and co, my favourite witch-in-training was missing :/ Was kind of hoping with the mariomaker costume, 3ds theme, comic and badge, it might spell out more of her appearing in the likes of smash or maybe even Nintendo just doing more characters in their cross-over games like tennis but her absence there is making me doubtful.
edit:
Super agreed. Was never the hugest fan of Twilight Princess Zelda. She has much more lively characterisation in many of her other variations and she was barely in Twilight Princess as a character anyhoo. Her only character trait in TP was 'stoic plot device'Btw I wish we had a kid Zelda in Smash. We have the boring adult Link and Toon Link. We have the dead inside Zelda from TP, but no Toon or kid Zelda
I've always preferred the idea of a W101 character being a team, but I'm not sure what the best weapons to keep in the primary rotation would be - Red and Blue would be a given, and if a third character had to permanently be out, it'd probably be Green; but having Red and Blue as the only consistent focal points of the moveset and including Yellow, Pink, Green, White and Black as aspects of specials and the FS could also work - a shame none of it would be feasible in 8-player or on the 3DS.
Dr. Buni
Member
As I said, I think if they go with a team of three, it will be Red, Blue and Pink. Red for obvious reasons and Blue/Pink seem to be the most popular wonders after Red himself. The others could be part of the Final Smash.
As for the primary weapon to be in rotation, I think it would be Wonder Red's fist. It could be the Team's neutral special. Whip for up special, sword for side special and for down special, I dunno. One gimmick the character could have is that all of their specials would be chargeable. Like take side special for example, if you release the button instantly, the sword will be small with mediocre reach. If hold it a bit, the other two wonders would help forming a longer and more powerful sword.
Also, their shield should be that bouncing shield thingy from W101.
I was hoping they would replace TP Zelda for SS Zelda in Smash 4, at the same time I knew it would be unlikely to happen because of Ganondorf. ALBW Zelda with a Hilda alt would be the GOAT, though.
Edit: This talk about a team character reminded me of the Chorus Kids :/
Jabs (Neutral), FSmash - Unite Hand
Tilts, DSmash - Unite Sword
Aerials, USmash - Unite Gun
Neutral B - Wonderful Cyclone (Hand)
Side B - Wonderful Stinger (Sword)
Up B - Wonderful Rising (Gun)
Down B - I honestly don't know, a Custom Block ability?
Final Smash - Platinum Robo
Also, even though DLC characters don't get customs, I think the genius thing about using a setup like this is that you can easily have the custom moves change which one of the Wonderful ones use the special ability, so if the Stinger is defaulted to Unite Sword, you can change it to a Unite Hand version that might have shorter range but packs more damage.
That's at least my idea though. You could replace Green with Pink I suppose since she has range as well (would also grant the character a tether grab I imagine), but in terms of a select trio I think Green is more distinct and varied.
Tilts, DSmash - Unite Sword
Aerials, USmash - Unite Gun
Neutral B - Wonderful Cyclone (Hand)
Side B - Wonderful Stinger (Sword)
Up B - Wonderful Rising (Gun)
Down B - I honestly don't know, a Custom Block ability?
Final Smash - Platinum Robo
Also, even though DLC characters don't get customs, I think the genius thing about using a setup like this is that you can easily have the custom moves change which one of the Wonderful ones use the special ability, so if the Stinger is defaulted to Unite Sword, you can change it to a Unite Hand version that might have shorter range but packs more damage.
That's at least my idea though. You could replace Green with Pink I suppose since she has range as well (would also grant the character a tether grab I imagine), but in terms of a select trio I think Green is more distinct and varied.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's a shame that Toon Zelda wasn't in Brawl.
Dr. Buni
Member
Maybe we will get Toon Zelda and Dixie from the "Forbidden 7" \o/ as DLCs... We got three of them already...
Considering how tether recoveries have been more or less abolished, I doubt they'd give Pink the recovery move - the hang glider formation or Red/Blue's Wonder Rising might be a better choice to fill that gap. Though in general, I guess a Red/Blue/Pink team might not be that bad a way to represent the game - Green, Yellow and White tread too heavily on the toes of other movesets, and Black's time bomb would be best suited for a FS, assuming they don't use Wonder Big, Platinum Robo, the Shirogane Comet, the Virgin Victory or any of the other options available. And it wouldn't complicate the Bayonetta alts too much either - it might not match their ingame W101 weapons, but giving Bayonetta Kulshedra and having Rodin fight barehanded like in Bayonetta 2 wouldn't be much of a stretch; Jeanne would presumably be able to keep Angel Slayer.
And regarding Zelda, while I prefer her TP design, especially in the context of differentiating her aesthetically in Smash; I agree that we desperately needed a Hilda palette. It'd be a much better use of Zelda's alt colours than giving her two mostly-identical blonde palettes, at least.
Geminosity
Member
All the above would've probably been instant main for me. I actually really like what they've done with her moveset in smash 4 but because it's still TP zelda (despite her using the phantom?!?!?) I keep drifting away from playing her. I guess I appreciate she's not another sunshine and rainbow princess like peach, but Lucy does stoic better while still actually having a character.
So... with the (NEW MARIO TENNIS GAME SPOILER)
sprixie princess
I'm not the hugest fan because if we're talking about fairies I'd rather play lip and as far as SM3DW characters we haven't been able to play yet I think Pom Pom is cooler
Dr. Buni
Member
Tether recoveries have been more or less abolished? I didn't notice it.
We will have to agree that Wonderful 101 has so much potential for a playable fighter. It's a shame it's probably not happening though.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Tether recoveries as the primary recovery method were removed, but the tether recovery system was made easier, with tethers being longer and snapping to edges easier.
Also I'm surprised Yoshi has gone so long and not given a tether. His grab is even considered a tether, and yet he has no z-air to use it to recover.
Also I'm surprised Yoshi has gone so long and not given a tether. His grab is even considered a tether, and yet he has no z-air to use it to recover.
SenorArdilla
Member
Yeah. Considering his appearance in Mario Galaxy 2, it'd make a lot of sense.
The Wonderful Ones (as I'd want them to be called & represented in move set), have so much potential even with all of the concessions that'd have to be made to make them work in a Smash context. I really like this idea though.
Edit: Yoshi not having a tether grab is still so weird given some of the cooler level design in Yoshi's Story involved latching onto those spheres that'd force a somersault jump.
Triforce141
Member
Wonder-Red (and the rest of the W101 for that matter) would be a very complex character to make correctly in Smash Bros. but there's one thing that I want done right, it's the Final Smash.
I want Red's final smash to be him engaging his unlimited form, with the camera zoomed into him while the match is still going on, and he does the entire animation while having super armor.
Afterwards, he would essentially be Wario-Man+Giga Bowser+Mega Lucario+Giga Mac combined.
Super Armor, all of his moves amplified by 101%, much more agile, and having no cooldown on all of his moves like Wario-Man's.
In the last few seconds before it ends, he starts sparkling like shiny platinum, if he grabs and throws you, you will be launched into space, then he shows up controlling Platinum Robo, recreating the final qte of the game.
The most hyped/insane thing ever.
Red will be now perform the Final Ultimate Legendary Earth Power Super Max Justice Future Miracle Dream Beautiful Galaxy Big Bang Little Bang Sunrise Starlight Infinite Fabulous Totally Final Wonderful Arrow, he will fire, and you can do more damage if you do tap the A button as fast as you can.
I don't care how stupid, or long winded of a final smash this would be, this would be hype as hell, and make Wonder Red's Final Smash an SS+ tier.
I want Red's final smash to be him engaging his unlimited form, with the camera zoomed into him while the match is still going on, and he does the entire animation while having super armor.
Afterwards, he would essentially be Wario-Man+Giga Bowser+Mega Lucario+Giga Mac combined.
Super Armor, all of his moves amplified by 101%, much more agile, and having no cooldown on all of his moves like Wario-Man's.
In the last few seconds before it ends, he starts sparkling like shiny platinum, if he grabs and throws you, you will be launched into space, then he shows up controlling Platinum Robo, recreating the final qte of the game.
The most hyped/insane thing ever.
Red will be now perform the Final Ultimate Legendary Earth Power Super Max Justice Future Miracle Dream Beautiful Galaxy Big Bang Little Bang Sunrise Starlight Infinite Fabulous Totally Final Wonderful Arrow, he will fire, and you can do more damage if you do tap the A button as fast as you can.
I don't care how stupid, or long winded of a final smash this would be, this would be hype as hell, and make Wonder Red's Final Smash an SS+ tier.
Not really. Another 2 clones wouldn't have added much to the roster.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If they were Brawl style clones, they would have been fairly unique.
With my game pad just giving me an ad for Fatal Frame, what's everyone's thoughts of a playable character from the series? We have no horror game rep, and could make an interesting move set.
Always thought it'd be from Eternal Darkness if we got one, but since Nintendo co owns Fatal Frame now.
Always thought it'd be from Eternal Darkness if we got one, but since Nintendo co owns Fatal Frame now.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Toon Zelda instead of Tetra would have been awful. And then there's Toon Sheik: that character doesn't even exist.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The general consensus is that Toon Sheik is just the internal name for Tetra, as they serve similar roles in their respective games. Toon Sheik isn't a thing that exists.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
It's an illogical consensus. Since Tetra actually does exist in Zelda games, unlike Toon Sheik, I'm sure she would have been listed by her own name if that were actually her.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Why would they invent a character for smash when Tetra literally is Wind Waker's 'Toon Sheik'?
For comparison in a few of the Mario spinoff games Diddy's referred to as 'Donkey Kong Jr.' despite clearly being a different character. I think Occam's razor would dictate Toon Sheik referred to Tetra rather than them creating an entirely new character. The name probably wasn't morespecific because the character was cut so early in development and would've been a clone of Sheik, much like there was debate over what 'Pramai' referred to since its name was vague compared to other naming conventions of 'duo' characters like Nana and Popo.
For comparison in a few of the Mario spinoff games Diddy's referred to as 'Donkey Kong Jr.' despite clearly being a different character. I think Occam's razor would dictate Toon Sheik referred to Tetra rather than them creating an entirely new character. The name probably wasn't morespecific because the character was cut so early in development and would've been a clone of Sheik, much like there was debate over what 'Pramai' referred to since its name was vague compared to other naming conventions of 'duo' characters like Nana and Popo.
I do think Toon Sheik was technically supposed to be Tetra, just not in the way you might imagine. Picture Tetra, personality and all, wearing a Sheikah disguise. That’s Toon Sheik. The official explanation could be that Tetra trained with a mysterious tribe in order to prepare for Smash Bros.
I highly doubt Toon Sheik was supposed to be the pirate Tetra we all know and love, though. "Toon Sheik" is a very specific name — why call the files that if the character was supposed to be Tetra? I just think the idea of an original Smash Bros. character makes some people uneasy, like how the prospect of Plusle & Minun was so terrifying that people lied about "pramai" being Japanese for "all players."
I highly doubt Toon Sheik was supposed to be the pirate Tetra we all know and love, though. "Toon Sheik" is a very specific name — why call the files that if the character was supposed to be Tetra? I just think the idea of an original Smash Bros. character makes some people uneasy, like how the prospect of Plusle & Minun was so terrifying that people lied about "pramai" being Japanese for "all players."
DICKS AHOY
Banned
It's less it makes me uneasy and more just seems way less likely they'd literally invent a Zelda rep over just using the character who served the same role in the Wind Waker games but happened to be a pirate instead of a ninja. I think Sakurai would've sooner just given Toon Zelda a new down-B then invent a new character for her to transform into in Brawl.
Tetra is literally a 'Toon Sheik', much in the same way Diddy Kong (from Nintendo's perspective anyway) is sometimes internally treated as a modern Donkey Kong Jr. Given how early on the character was probably cut and how disorganized Brawl's files are in general, it could've well been a dummy name nobody was ever meant to see anyhow.
Though in regards to Pramai I was talking more about how their names were awkwardly shoved together into one string and character entry rather than split up like Ice Climbers and the cut Diddy/Dixie duo are. I thought that was mostly what led to people debating over what that was really meant to be a reference to until people just kind of admitted it was probably the Pokemon characters.
Tetra is literally a 'Toon Sheik', much in the same way Diddy Kong (from Nintendo's perspective anyway) is sometimes internally treated as a modern Donkey Kong Jr. Given how early on the character was probably cut and how disorganized Brawl's files are in general, it could've well been a dummy name nobody was ever meant to see anyhow.
Though in regards to Pramai I was talking more about how their names were awkwardly shoved together into one string and character entry rather than split up like Ice Climbers and the cut Diddy/Dixie duo are. I thought that was mostly what led to people debating over what that was really meant to be a reference to until people just kind of admitted it was probably the Pokemon characters.
SenorArdilla
Member
Man. I really miss Snake's Down-Throw.
I just don't think it's entirely unlikely that Sakurai would invent a character. Twilight Princess Sheik isn't real, after all (based only on concept art), and neither is "Mr. Game & Watch." Toon Sheik would be considered the same person as Tetra, so she wouldn't be a wholly original creation.
Sheik's archetypical ninja moveset makes zero sense on a Western pirate. If you want to bring up Ganondorf, consider that all he does is punch and kick. That's a basic fighting style. Throwing needles, vanishing into a cloud of smoke, and moving around like an acrobatic spider just doesn't fit Tetra thematically.
It's also incredibly important to realize that this character never came to fruition. Sakurai might have had similar misgivings and put her at the bottom of the priority list for these reasons.
Sheik's archetypical ninja moveset makes zero sense on a Western pirate. If you want to bring up Ganondorf, consider that all he does is punch and kick. That's a basic fighting style. Throwing needles, vanishing into a cloud of smoke, and moving around like an acrobatic spider just doesn't fit Tetra thematically.
It's also incredibly important to realize that this character never came to fruition. Sakurai might have had similar misgivings and put her at the bottom of the priority list for these reasons.
Maybe they'll give it to the Inkling. It's reasonably in-character.
Geminosity
Member
I'm still surprised after all the rumours and whispers that all we've heard about smash officially is stone cold silence. I don't mean that the rumours should've been true but I was kind of hoping there'd be something, even just a "don't worry, news on smash will come later in the future. We're still working on it for now"
It's pretty much been an utter void since the ballot closed outside of 'the ballot is closed'
It's pretty much been an utter void since the ballot closed outside of 'the ballot is closed'
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah surprised at the lack of Smash news.
TDLink
Member
Like I said before, look at the pattern that has been laid out. We just got new stuff at the end of last month. Things have been spaced out at ~2 month intervals. Nothing should ever have been expected this month. November will be when we get more stuff. This was always going to be the case.
Some people just let random twitter users blind them to that.
Some people just let random twitter users blind them to that.
Pokemaniac
Member
Not that people around here really need anything else to get irrationally hyped about but...
There clearly was supposed to be something happening this past Monday. The maintenance announced was too big and unusual for there not to be. I highly suspect that, at minimum, the new Club Nintendo and the first mobile game were intended to launch around then, and there very well could have been the expected announcements for Smash and/or Splatoon as well. However, that maintenance was canceled basically at the last minute. This probably means that a last minute bug was found and they needed to delay whatever they were planning to do.
Now for this coming week, we have an abnormally long eShop maintenance scheduled. It lasts an entire 6 hours. It seems somewhat likely that whatever they were planning to do last week has ended up delayed a week to this coming Monday.
This could, of course, all be nothing again, but it's been a bit too quiet lately. At least we're basically guaranteed to hear something next week due to the investor meeting.
There clearly was supposed to be something happening this past Monday. The maintenance announced was too big and unusual for there not to be. I highly suspect that, at minimum, the new Club Nintendo and the first mobile game were intended to launch around then, and there very well could have been the expected announcements for Smash and/or Splatoon as well. However, that maintenance was canceled basically at the last minute. This probably means that a last minute bug was found and they needed to delay whatever they were planning to do.
Now for this coming week, we have an abnormally long eShop maintenance scheduled. It lasts an entire 6 hours. It seems somewhat likely that whatever they were planning to do last week has ended up delayed a week to this coming Monday.
This could, of course, all be nothing again, but it's been a bit too quiet lately. At least we're basically guaranteed to hear something next week due to the investor meeting.
Ballot only ended 20 days ago and we haven't even had a month since the last content update. With the amount of shit Nintendo has to announce, its a bit surprising...but with the development schedule, it isn't that surprising.
Dr. Buni
Member
I think it is surprising. I don't think we would have gotten any new character or update this month, but I was hoping for an announcement at least.
WonderRade
Member
my guess is iwata's absence is hitting nintendo harder than any of us realized
balladofwindfishes
Member
One year since the 50 facts Direct.
One year since DLC was announced, with Mewtwo being revealed as the first character (at the time, was thought to be the only DLC character, ever)
Also one year since the super secret and completely unknown character Bowser Jr was announced!
One year since DLC was announced, with Mewtwo being revealed as the first character (at the time, was thought to be the only DLC character, ever)
Also one year since the super secret and completely unknown character Bowser Jr was announced!
NeonZ
Member
Well, technically they got a non-existent Twilight Princess Sheik design for Brawl, so it's not odd if they were going with a non-existent Wind Waker-style Sheik in addition to that. It sounds like Toon Zelda would be a clone, so maybe they thought that Sheik's attacks wouldn't fit Tetra.
And when Sakurai lied about us seeing Duck Hunt Duo, which is still rather puzzling.
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