Until I get my Takamaru, yes.
Better yet, give him a slight redesign into a rugged Samurai Jack or Miyamoto Musashi Vagabond style.
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Until I get my Takamaru, yes.
Better yet, give him a slight redesign into a rugged Samurai Jack or Miyamoto Musashi Vagabond style.
Triforce141
Member
An alt. based on his Samurai Warriors 3 design too.
There was a Takamaru outfit for Nintendo Land, why can't they repurpose modify it a little to make it a Mii Swordfighter outfit.
I hate the anime swordsmen thing people always going on about. It's not anime damn it!
Dude this game is so anime now it hurts, the avatar thing is worse though.
Evil's Bane
Member
Blame Nintendo for making so many "Anime" characters, then.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I don't even get what an "anime" character even is. Characters like Toon Link and Mega Man are rooted in anime-esque designs. Even Little Mac has touches of what someone could consider "anime" and he's using a design that came from Canada.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
It's shorthand for humanoid characters with facial designs reminiscent of manga. Which is to be expected, because Nintendo is a Japanese company with Japanese artists and the majority of the characters are gonna be designed in Japan. Toon Link gets a pass because that type of design is specific of one film from the 60s or 50s which barely anyone has seen, and Little Mac is designed by a Western Studio and has a more "squarish" face than the Fire Emblem people.
It's a dumb, dumb complaint by people who want Smash Bros. to specifically focus on the games they like.
Red Arremer
Member
If anyone thinks I am sincere with my comment, then please go look up when I've generally defended the inclusion of Fire Emblem characters, and supported the notion of having more of them (as long as they are not derivative of Marth, or sword fighters in general, but rather represent other aspects of the series).
I was making a joke. But you can't deny that now that we have Link, Marth, Ike, Robin, Shulk, Roy, Cloud, and arguably the 2 Pits, there's a lot of bishonen-type characters with swords.
I was making a joke. But you can't deny that now that we have Link, Marth, Ike, Robin, Shulk, Roy, Cloud, and arguably the 2 Pits, there's a lot of bishonen-type characters with swords.
Masked Man
I said wow
This this this.
Some people may be joking, but others are serious, and that's troubling.
Well the technical definition of anime is literally the Japanese term for animation. So The Simpsons is anime. Of course this has transformed to mean Japanese animation. This has further mutated to be a lazy way to say 'illustrated in Japan (but only if I think said style counts)'. So in reality, almost all of Smash's roster apart from Diddy and DK, who use Rare's designs, and Mac, who uses Next Level's, is "anime", but apparently we don't count the likes of say Mario who is "not anime" but the cast of FE "is anime" because arbitrary reasons. They're both based of designs from Japanese origin. They're as much "anime" as each other.
In some ways 'manga style' would be a more apt term, because much like cartoon, it can mean just a form of illustration (rather than having to be something comic) ergo more encompassing of drawings as a whole whereas animation is technically the moving image.
In some ways 'manga style' would be a more apt term, because much like cartoon, it can mean just a form of illustration (rather than having to be something comic) ergo more encompassing of drawings as a whole whereas animation is technically the moving image.
It's also a compounding of very silly generalizations from people who can't actually critique art/character design. I've had this discussion before both on and off GAF, but the use of "anime" as a catch all for the softer featured humanoid characters in the game is dumb as fuck because anime is a broad as fuck medium with thousands of art styles and directions under its umbrella. To be used to primarily mean "doe eyed pretty boy/girl characters" always felt off to me.
If anyone thinks I am sincere with my comment, then please go look up when I've generally defended the inclusion of Fire Emblem characters, and supported the notion of having more of them (as long as they are not derivative of Marth, or sword fighters in general, but rather represent other aspects of the series).
I was making a joke. But you can't deny that now that we have Link, Marth, Ike, Robin, Shulk, Roy, Cloud, and arguably the 2 Pits, there's a lot of bishonen-type characters with swords.
I know. I'm just being silly here.
The Cloud reveal has just made me hyper critical of certain fans.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Mega Man is literally based on an actual, honest to god anime character.
But nobody mentions him when talking about anime characters in Smash lol
But nobody mentions him when talking about anime characters in Smash lol
What's more, the Smash incarnation is BLATANTLY inspired by the best incarnation of the character to ever exist
a manga incarnation
I still want to know how much of the design comes from original sources, how much is from Capcom internal media and how much Hitoshi Ariga's Megamix/Gigamix series was referenced. Things like the monitor eyes, rivets and chest plate opening are too suspect to not think it was his own doing.
TBH, I never liked the Samurai Warriors look (like the actual facial features, the costume is rad as fuck). There's something charming about the 80s "broadcast animation" art that was lost there. Even the assist trophy design plays a bit too safe and loses some of the Goemon Ishikawa XIII which is a bit sad to see. For comparison:
Mysterious Murasame Castle Box Art
Goemon in Lupin II: The Woman Named Fujiko Mine:
Masked Man
I said wow
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
why are people forgetting the other anime MegaMan is based from lol
in fact, another video game character is referenced from him lol
in fact, another video game character is referenced from him lol
balladofwindfishes
Member
Oh wow, Quick Man is pretty clearly a homage to that character
Tetris already assembled a Smash Bros cast a few years after Murasame Castle and it did not feature Takamaru !
Guess which has 3D models on the game ?
TAKAMARU, not Tetris !
Green Mamba
Member
The biggest lie anyone told about Murasame Castle was that anyone gave a shit about it.
There was a narrative for a while a few years back that Murasame was Japan's answer to Kid Icarus in fandom, but that wasn't even close to the truth. Murasame was always by far the weakest link of all four. There's a reason all of them got at least one sequel somewhere save Murasame.
The only reason Takamaru has a chance at this point is due to process of elimination.
There was a narrative for a while a few years back that Murasame was Japan's answer to Kid Icarus in fandom, but that wasn't even close to the truth. Murasame was always by far the weakest link of all four. There's a reason all of them got at least one sequel somewhere save Murasame.
The only reason Takamaru has a chance at this point is due to process of elimination.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The first level is good and then the game kind of turns into a traditional bad NES game.
Amazing music though.
Amazing music though.
Probably, but he's still a nice piece of Nintendo. And for whatever reason, NOA brought his game to the 3DS Virtual Console.
MrSaturn99
Member
It's not like Assist Trophies ever had the best designs, but I would hope a playable Takamaru returns to that 80's aesthetic. Just too charming.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Of old NES characters, I think Balloon Fighter is long overdue for Smash. He seems a lot more important and well known than Takamaru.
MrSaturn99
Member
For convenience's sake: here's Sakurai's over-decade-old quote regarding him:
It's not that I don't see where he came from, but I'm certain he could come up with something.
And we know now he can change his mind on characters, although I wonder if Villager would still have Balloon Trip should Balloon Fighter ever make it in.
balladofwindfishes
Member
My thought would be he has uninflated Balloons on his back that inflate when doing attacks. If a balloon blocks an opponents' attack, it takes damage, until it eventually pops. BF's down special would be to inflate new balloons when his pop (think like the Mario Party Minigame where you inflate a balloon). He normally has four jumps, but at only one balloon he loses one, and then for no balloons, he can only double jump. His air control also gets worse the less balloons he has. And obviously his attacks that use balloons weaken.
Wouldn't really be much different than Olimar without Pikmin.
I wasn't aware Villager has to maintain a balance between momentum and control to avoid obstacles. Which is basically the core of BF and not really at all shown in Villager's up special.
It's like saying Toad is adequately represented in Smash because of Peach's neutral special.
Wouldn't really be much different than Olimar without Pikmin.
Ice Climbers hit their heads on blocks to climb up an abstract mountain. And hit junk with hammers. They have two animations that reference their original game. The idea of a tag team isn't even particularly unique or relevant to Ice Climbers.
I wasn't aware Villager has to maintain a balance between momentum and control to avoid obstacles. Which is basically the core of BF and not really at all shown in Villager's up special.
It's like saying Toad is adequately represented in Smash because of Peach's neutral special.
Honestly speaking, I wouldn't even place Murasame Castle in a group with the other titles mentioned (Zelda, Kid Icarus, Metroid) as it would imply equal standing with them.
Think of recent titles that reference NES games such as NES Remix 1&2, Tetris DS and PiCOPiCT. It never makes an appearance, despite those three and many others appearing in a load of them. Clu Clu Land is a more prominent NES title. I did find that Wario Ware DIY had a microgame based on it, but that was JP exclusive and replaced with a Pikmin game in the Western release.
Think of recent titles that reference NES games such as NES Remix 1&2, Tetris DS and PiCOPiCT. It never makes an appearance, despite those three and many others appearing in a load of them. Clu Clu Land is a more prominent NES title. I did find that Wario Ware DIY had a microgame based on it, but that was JP exclusive and replaced with a Pikmin game in the Western release.
Triforce141
Member
My words still stands, Takamaru might have a chance to be a newcomer in Smash 5.
-Sakurai considered him again for 4, unlike Balloon Fighter and Bubbles from Clu Clu Land
-Turned down due to people not knowing him that well, or low popularity
-Recent things like Nintendo Land, VC rerelease and the Ballot may convince Sakurai otherwise
He doesn't stand against Link, Samus and Pit that well, but still fits within the realm that Ice Climbers, Little Mac and Duck Hunt fit.
-Sakurai considered him again for 4, unlike Balloon Fighter and Bubbles from Clu Clu Land
-Turned down due to people not knowing him that well, or low popularity
-Recent things like Nintendo Land, VC rerelease and the Ballot may convince Sakurai otherwise
He doesn't stand against Link, Samus and Pit that well, but still fits within the realm that Ice Climbers, Little Mac and Duck Hunt fit.
TheDinoman
Member
A lot of it has to do with the fact that all four of them originated on the Famicom Disk System all in the same year, and how basically Murasame Castle is sort of a companion game to LoZ (both from Nintendo EAD) like Kid Icarus to Metroid (Both from R&D1).
Every time I think about Takamaru and The Mysterious Murasame Castle, I can't help but feel that it's crazy that the game didn't become more popular. I mean, it makes sense I guess because it was never localized, but when I first found out about it, it seemed like a very interesting, fun, and impressive Famicom game! There didn't seem to be anything else quite like it, and to me it seems like it had everything it needed to become a fan favorite. So why didn't it?! It boggles my mind. Seeing Murasame Castle get some attention in Nintendo Land with its characters, music, setting, and story fleshed out a bit in a modern game (even if there wasn't much to it) was so amazing, and I just don't understand why Nintendo never bothered to do anything else with this IP.
No, not really. Toad doesn't do anything like Peach's neutral special in any of the Mario games. The animation, sound, mechanics, and name of Villager's up special are very clearly inspired by Balloon Fight. That's the point of the move. I just don't see the need to arbitrarily include a character from a 30-year-old game that didn't even sell well. The Ice Climbers were featured in Melee to encompass all of the forgotten NES games, Balloon Fight included. Balloon Fighter doesn't have the popularity of Pit pre-Brawl or the historical justification that G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt do. Balloon Fighter is the ultimate "well, what retro characters are left?" character.
And I say all of this as someone who actually supported Balloon Fighter leading up to the reveal of Smash 4. His inclusion just doesn't seem very pertinent to me anymore.
TheDinoman
Member
I kinda wonder what they could do with retro characters from here on out.
Ryce's already mentioned this in the past but each retro character in Smash appears to seemingly represent their own aspect of Nintendo's past. Mr. Game & Watch represents the G&W line of handhelds, Ice Climbers represented old NES "Action Series" games like Urban Champion and Clu Clu Land, R.O.B represent the ROB peripheral and its associated "Robot Series" games, and Duck Hunt represent the NES Zapper and its associated "Light Gun Series" games.
So, who's next?
Ryce's already mentioned this in the past but each retro character in Smash appears to seemingly represent their own aspect of Nintendo's past. Mr. Game & Watch represents the G&W line of handhelds, Ice Climbers represented old NES "Action Series" games like Urban Champion and Clu Clu Land, R.O.B represent the ROB peripheral and its associated "Robot Series" games, and Duck Hunt represent the NES Zapper and its associated "Light Gun Series" games.
So, who's next?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Balloon Fighter is always pushed by Nintendo as a "signature" retro NES game. Even within Smash Bros, Balloon Fight has been referenced in every Smash since Melee. Balloon Fight even has more music in the history of Smash than many playable series, including Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt and ROB (with four songs). Balloon Fight appears to be a series Nintendo holds very dear to them, as the game seems to be referenced in everything.
I don't think Balloon Fighter would ever be DLC, but as far as a retro NES character is concerned, I think he's more relevant to Nintendo history and more important than Takamaru.
I don't think Balloon Fighter would ever be DLC, but as far as a retro NES character is concerned, I think he's more relevant to Nintendo history and more important than Takamaru.
I kinda wonder what they could do with retro characters from here on out.
Ryce's already mentioned this in the past but each retro character in Smash appears to seemingly represent their own aspect of Nintendo's past. Mr. Game & Watch represents the G&W line of handhelds, Ice Climbers represented old NES "Action Series" games like Urban Champion and Clu Clu Land, R.O.B represent the ROB peripheral and its associated "Robot Series" games, and Duck Hunt represent the NES Zapper and its associated "Light Gun Series" games.
So, who's next?
Obviously Donkey Kong Jr.
balladofwindfishes
Member
What other educational Nintendo made NES games even exist besides Jr Math.
Jr actually is both educational and arcade!
The same reason they decided not to do anything with Famicom Detective Club in spite of games like Phoenix Wright making visual novel-style games significantly more popular outside Japan. Nintendo just gonna Nintendo.
Green Mamba
Member
No, the 'retro' character worth it is this guy:
Excitebike is the ninth best selling NES game of all time, more popular than a lot of SSB franchises' initial releases. And while its newer releases have been considerably less than stellar, it is still technically sort of alive (unlike a lot of its contemporaries like Ice Hockey and Baseball), and Nintendo does still like to reference it (got an entire track dedicated to it in Mario Kart 8's DLC). So it's probably one of the most significant old Nintendo franchise that isn't represented in Smash 4.
And this is just me, but a tiny dude driving a tiny motorcycle sounds like a more interesting character than another guy with a sword or Villager's Up-B made playable.
Excitebike is the ninth best selling NES game of all time, more popular than a lot of SSB franchises' initial releases. And while its newer releases have been considerably less than stellar, it is still technically sort of alive (unlike a lot of its contemporaries like Ice Hockey and Baseball), and Nintendo does still like to reference it (got an entire track dedicated to it in Mario Kart 8's DLC). So it's probably one of the most significant old Nintendo franchise that isn't represented in Smash 4.
And this is just me, but a tiny dude driving a tiny motorcycle sounds like a more interesting character than another guy with a sword or Villager's Up-B made playable.
TheDinoman
Member
Haha, I was literally about to post that. I too always liked the idea of an "Sports Series" representative.
The only problem, what would the actual character be itself? It'd be strange to either make it an Ice Hockey player and then shove a golf club onto him, or have him suddenly transform from a Ice Hockey player into a Baseball player or something.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I saw a moveset idea that was centered around Balloon Fighter using his Down B to inflate his balloons and using them offensively as well as for recovery. Think Olimar and his Pikmkn, but the hook is that you want to keep your balloons inflated for recovery since attacking with them can weaken them and expose them to attacks.
I also think it went that if he had one balloon, he had 4 jumps, and two balloons granted him 6 jumps. So trying to recover with no balloons is hard. Or something.
I wish I could find that image. It was a really impressive moveset concept. Plus, I feel like somehow Balloon Fight and Ice Climbers share some kinship since Sakurai put the BF fish in the Summit stage. I think it's cool to imagine that those two games take place in the same universe or something.
Plus it would be a nice tribute to Iwata's legacy, on top of being a fun character.
I also think it went that if he had one balloon, he had 4 jumps, and two balloons granted him 6 jumps. So trying to recover with no balloons is hard. Or something.
I wish I could find that image. It was a really impressive moveset concept. Plus, I feel like somehow Balloon Fight and Ice Climbers share some kinship since Sakurai put the BF fish in the Summit stage. I think it's cool to imagine that those two games take place in the same universe or something.
Plus it would be a nice tribute to Iwata's legacy, on top of being a fun character.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I kinda wonder what they could do with retro characters from here on out.
So, who's next?
Excitebiker?
They might move on to SNES. Like Super Scopes franchise?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yes, I'm aware of that but I'm talking about character's franchises are pure based on Super Scopes, like Battle Clash franchise. ;p
Yeah, it sound stupid when I said it out loud.
TheDinoman
Member
Interestingly, the Trophy Box that contains all of Duck Hunt's stuff is labeled as "Light Gun Series" , like that one icon. DH's final smash trophy even mentions "three games from the Light Gun Series". Was it any different in the JP version of the game?
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