MaestroMike
Gold Member
the good of the whole more important than the good of you ??
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So I'm getting vaccinated tomorrow...
- Thread starter PleaseDontBanMe
- Start date
This post is so full of shit. OP, ignore everything in this post. Getting the vaccine is a good thing, by all accounts, and you are taking steps to protect yourself and those around you.
EDIT: Ah. You died. My sympathies. On the plus side, my ability to communicate with the dead is back. Huzzah.
Erdrick
Member
Good on you.
I got my first shot back in April (Astrazeneca) and my 2nd shot in June. (Moderna) Aside from some nasty chills for about half an hour, 8 hours into my first shot, I had no other notable side effects, just felt rather blah for a few days but since then? No ill effects. I simply took the first vaccines available to me and am glad to have done so. I'm sure a booster shot will be needed so I expect that down the line, but whatever. If it lets me get back to working full time, and helps keep myself and others safer in the process? Bonus.
Just expect to feel kind of lousy after your shots for the first few days after, but otherwise, you should be right as rain afterwards.
I got my first shot back in April (Astrazeneca) and my 2nd shot in June. (Moderna) Aside from some nasty chills for about half an hour, 8 hours into my first shot, I had no other notable side effects, just felt rather blah for a few days but since then? No ill effects. I simply took the first vaccines available to me and am glad to have done so. I'm sure a booster shot will be needed so I expect that down the line, but whatever. If it lets me get back to working full time, and helps keep myself and others safer in the process? Bonus.
Just expect to feel kind of lousy after your shots for the first few days after, but otherwise, you should be right as rain afterwards.
GeorgPrime
Banned
Well i had to fight with side effects for around 5 days. 1 night was hell, second night was ok.
Git my 2nd shot on saturday. Took a day off on monday. Started working on tzesday again but had some more bad nights until wednesday.
I always woke up sweating badly and stuff
May I ask why? If it's not too personal a question.
StormCell
Member
Why do you care so strongly whether someone else gets vaccinated? Surely it's not because you care that strongly about people not dying. Look, if this is about your safety, others getting vaccinated won't reduce your risk of becoming infected by them. The vaccinated can be spreaders just the same.
Fact: You can die as a result of a severe reaction to the vaccine. Some have died as a direct result. Some have had strokes and survived. This should be a personal choice and not mandatory.
For some people, they have very little reason to leave their home. They can control whether they get covid just by staying home and using contact less services. They can't control how they would react to a vaccine.
If you want the vaccine and can get it, then good. If you don't want it and you live a hermit life, then good. If someone wants to force you to take it, that's some shit deserving of a beat down.
VN1X
Banned
Already had covid.
I don't know if I'd say I went through hell but the second shot definitely made me sick for a day. (Got the shot at noon, started feeling sick at 10 pm. Got a fever over night that got up to 101 but then came down to 100 for most of the day and started feeling ok around 8pm the next day.) Then again at my age I actually do have something to worry about from Covid.
epicnemesis
Member
What was full of shit? To clarify, in my first paragraph I meant now that he has the vaccine he will have no symptoms or diminished symptoms. If he was unvaccinated he would feel the full brunt of the virus which would either show mild symptoms like it did with me but could turn bad and kill you like it did for my friend in his 30s.
Second paragraph is not full of shit, unless you are calling me a liar.
The third paragraph is a value statement on the vaccine for my personal situation. Validity of natural immunity is pretty well studied here and abroad. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262111v1
There are a lot more studies but here are two after a quick search.
Fourth paragraph was explaining that if your motivation for getting a vaccine is “doing it for grandma” it might be flawed logic since we know, with delta at least, that the vaccine doesn’t STOP you from getting the virus, it stops or diminished symptoms. You are still able to spread it. This is pretty well known at this point. At best, you shed less virus than an unvaccinated person who has never had it, but you are still shedding. Hence the spike in Israel despite it being the most vaccinated country (or one of)
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus...n-in-israels-outbreak-among-vaccinated-people
Once again, the point I’m making isn’t that the vaccine is dangerous or that it’s injecting nanobots so the lizard people can turn us into pedophiles or whatever crazy thing people believe.
All I’m saying is that the vaccine is effective and viable for people to diminish their Covid risk to essentially 0, it’s doing little against delta to slow the spread. Therefor the decision to vaccinate isn’t this “I’m doing my part” thing it was pre delta. It’s simply an individual risk mitigator.
Now Mr. Gambini, if you have anything to say other than “everything that guy said is bullshit” please present it. I am not without bias so I would love to see recent counterstudies to disprove what I say.
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Again; both parents dead, suffered from Covid myself.
I have seen first-hand the devestation the virus can do.
GeorgPrime
Banned
I started shivering at 10 pm right before i went to bed. Woke up at 2 am.
I had fever, i was hard shivering, my whole body screamed for pain and everytime i tried to lied down again i got pressure in my head and more pain.
I was t aking medicine against pain and fever.... but it only helped 50 %. The only thing iwas able to do was sit in my bed.... and count the hours until it was over.
Same day at around 6 pm it was finally over.
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StormCell
Member
What's the vaccination rate of your country?
I would say that there is a bigger push against it because there started being a push to make it mandatory. Some want vaccination to be mandatory to work. Some want vaccination to be mandatory to walk into a store. Some just want it to be mandatory to do things like go to concerts, stay at hotels, go to theme parks, and really anything that counts as a good time. I understand that many people will fight this because it can present a bit of a slippery slope: if they can present this as a mandatory medical action then what's to stop them from enforcing some other draconian medical requirement like a limit on having children? I'm just presenting that as a big flaw-ish sounding example of reasoning, but in the US we strongly believe that the government should have little say in how you care for your body. The rare exception being immunizations in order to go to public school, but once you're over 18 no one can tell you take anything unless you try to travel to another country, in which case you will abide by that country's laws, or if you wish to return to the US you will abide by guidelines for re-entry. Makes sense.
What doesn't make any sense to me is the idea that vaccination should grant you any special privileges like I'm vaccinated, so I no longer need a mask! WRONG! You can still become infected and still be a spreader. I'm vaccinated, and only vaccinated folks can safely gather at a concert, restaurant, beach, or enter the Wal-mart! Why? So y'all can spread the Delta variant amongst yourselves? Who are you kidding? A non-vaccinated person can just go into the Wal-mart wearing a mask and keep a good social distance and be better than you if you're not doing the same! The only thing you've accomplished with the vaccine is you've slightly reduced your risk of getting COVID again and seemingly substantially improved your chances of only experiencing mild effects. If you don't realize you have COVID, then you're probably spreading it!!
It's not often that we are presented with a new vaccine in this manner. Frankly, I think that the experts and those in favor of taking the vaccines are trying so hard to sell them. They invalidate concerns, attempt to redirect discussions back to COVID, and basically seem to ignore good conventional facts that things they say in other discussions, like about lifting mask requirements on vaccinated, don't make an ounce of damn sense to the logically-minded like myself. So then why wouldn't I begin to question efficacy when the experts aren't making good logical sense even? For the record, I don't really question the vaccine efficacy, but I find this so-called smarter side... wanting in intelligence.
JCK75
Member
I think mRNA vaccines are one of the biggest medical breakthroughs of our lifetime.. I think it's wise to get vaccinated..
but that said the constant attacks on people for not wanting it bug me, everyone has to understand their own risks and make their own decisions.
I personally jumped on it as soon as I could get it (I visit my 75 YO parents regularly as well as my 98 year old grandmother and I live with allergies so I've always got basic covid like symptoms)...
But man I wish they would be more open and honest about the issues and give people path to deal with them, the Moderna vaccine gave me Myocarditis and I've been fighting for months to get a doctor to take it seriously.. FINALLY last week I a minor blip showed up on the EKG and they arranged for me to see a cardiologist..
The other thing that bugs me is that nobody seems to want to grant natural immunity as being the same as being vaccinated.. like if you got covid IMO you're good.. and if you got the vaccine and had a breakthrough infection IMO you just got a free booster.
but that said the constant attacks on people for not wanting it bug me, everyone has to understand their own risks and make their own decisions.
I personally jumped on it as soon as I could get it (I visit my 75 YO parents regularly as well as my 98 year old grandmother and I live with allergies so I've always got basic covid like symptoms)...
But man I wish they would be more open and honest about the issues and give people path to deal with them, the Moderna vaccine gave me Myocarditis and I've been fighting for months to get a doctor to take it seriously.. FINALLY last week I a minor blip showed up on the EKG and they arranged for me to see a cardiologist..
The other thing that bugs me is that nobody seems to want to grant natural immunity as being the same as being vaccinated.. like if you got covid IMO you're good.. and if you got the vaccine and had a breakthrough infection IMO you just got a free booster.
StormCell
Member
All of this is exactly what I'm talking about. If you already had COVID? Doesn't matter, go get vaccinated. Have natural immunity? It won't last. Go get vaccinated. Had an adverse reaction to getting vaccinated? There's no proof or evidence THAT happened because of the vaccine. Now go get vaccinated again! Hesitant to get the vaccine? Go get vaccinated, Anti-Vax Terrorist!
What you just shared increases my concern to even get vaccinated. I know several people now with long term effects from getting vaccinated, and I can't believe there are discussions to make this mandatory and to have a vaccination proof card. I know far more people who got vaccinated without any known lasting effects, but it's still concerning for someone, or anyone, who might just avoid COVID by following good safety precautions (like just staying home).
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
If people understood the risks and then made their decisions accordingly almost everyone would be vaccinated. There has to be some imperative to try and stop people making bad decisions.
You made the right decision to get vaccinated and it sucks that you have had a hard time getting a doctor to take your side effects seriously. But let's be honest, did you even know what myocarditis was and it's symptoms until you heard about it being a possible side effect. I'm sure a lot of us shrug it off without knowing what it was after getting it after a viral infection. Just a weird spell you had, probably just tired after fighting the infection etc.
dorkimoe
Member
This. Then once youre done you dont have to think about it again. it really is no problem at all.PleaseDontBanMe get some Gatorade or sports drinks and get hydrated AF today, before, and all day tomorrow. This will lower the chance you will have ady adverse reaction.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Hopefully this is the case, but there are arguments against such. Such arguments must be dismissed on the merits of the arguments not based on appeals to authority.
Estimating Vaccine-Induced Mortality, Part 3: Q&A and the Million Dollar Bounty - by Mathew Crawford - Rounding the Earth Newsletter (substack.com)
There are some suggesting the vaccines may carry more risks than are being suggested by official claims.
Risks? Do you understand the risks? The official stats is just appeal to authority a logical fallacy. There is debate on what the actual risks are.
Dusktildawn48
Member
First shot down, 2nd shot 3 weeks from today.
JCK75
Member
That's exactly it.. I mean if you live in a big city and are just constantly surrounded by masses of people i'd lean way more toward it being a good idea to vax..
but I live in a small town, case rates are insanely low and I tend to just keep my distance from people even vaxxed but go on about my life normally otherwise (that was normal for me before the pandemic)
I had no idea what it was until I did research after going to the ER twice experiencing what felt like a heart attack.. within days of the second dose my heart would just pound out of my chest.. I'd get checked and spent about $1000 on deductables to just be told everything looks great and I'm perfectly healthy.. I'm winded just tying my shoes, a trip up the steps for something at home results in me having to take a breather for 10 minutes.. again I know this is the bodies reaction to COVID itself so it makes sense it "Could" happen from the vaccine. But now that it's known as a side effect I don't know why it was so hard for me to get it taken seriously.. I have nights where I swear I'm not going to wake up if I sleep it's so severe.
Now if you live in a big city I think you'd be kind of foolish not to take the shot, but I live in a small town where many people don't see other people except maybe once or twice a week.. if those people don't feel the need I take no issues with them not getting it. And also we know enough about how it impacts people based on age/obesity.. I see no reason why my 8 year old should get the shot knowing what we know.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
This shit looks more and more like the election bullshit everyday. Amateur statisticians manipulating databases they don't understand and then producing wild theories that explain there incorrect data.
Yes I understand the risks. True, there is some rational scientific discussion on the exact quantitation of risks, philisophical discussion on the nature of risk, and then pie in the sky conspiracy theories like you posted that is only being debated by other conspiracy theorists.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
My issue is that it seems the protection wears down within several months, some of those arguing for higher risks from vaccine suggest it is risk per dose. And in those under 45 the death rate is well below 1%, iirc. So is one to take booster shots annually or biannually?
Maybe if this is unethically mandated it will force practically everyone to take it, but I doubt that's gone happen, a lot of people are gonna oppose. And like voting, one more person won't do much difference. So unless you have or work with vulnerable individuals, it is very likely someone else will be a vector in the general population and continue the spread of the virus.
This is without mentioning that if you've gotten covid one or more times you also likely have some degree of protection.
Why the COVID-19 survival rate is not over 99% - Poynter
Most people who contract COVID-19 will not die, though an individual should not weigh their own chances of death by looking at national statistics.
www.poynter.org
There's a 1 million bounty if you can disprove it. He's given a post answering most of the doubters and the mistakes the doubters have made. And supposedly other researchers are going to publish similar data in peer review.
The CFR has gone up notably high within following weeks in multiple indepedent countries after vaccination. Could be a coincidence, but I won't dismiss arguments against based solely on official claims. There is a lot of egg on the face if any of such claims are shown to be true.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Diaprove what? I looked through and couldn't find a concrete verifiable position.My issue is that it seems the protection wears down within several months, some of those arguing for higher risks from vaccine suggest it is risk per dose. And in those under 45 the death rate is well below 1%, iirc. So is one to take booster shots annually or biannually?
Maybe if this is unethically mandated it will force practically everyone to take it, but I doubt that's gone happen, a lot of people are gonna oppose. And like voting, one more person won't do much difference. So unless you have or work with vulnerable individuals, it is very likely someone else will be a vector in the general population and continue the spread of the virus.
This is without mentioning that if you've gotten covid one or more times you also likely have some degree of protection.
Why the COVID-19 survival rate is not over 99% - Poynter
Most people who contract COVID-19 will not die, though an individual should not weigh their own chances of death by looking at national statistics.
There's a 1 million bounty if you can disprove it. He's given a post answering most of the doubters and the mistakes the doubters have made. And supposedly other researchers are going to publish similar data in peer review.
The CFR has gone up notably high within following weeks in multiple indepedent countries after vaccination. Could be a coincidence, but I won't dismiss arguments against based solely on official claims. There is a lot of egg on the face if any of such claims are shown to be true.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
It is very simple there is statistical analysis in the first post, which is mentioned in the article. The article does not have the statistical analysis, it is in another post. There is 1 Million dollars you can earn if you find significant flaw in the statistical analysis. So far many have tried and none have done so, it seems.
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Here's the data in question, if I'm not mistaken
Estimating Vaccine-Induced Mortality, Part I - by Mathew Crawford - Rounding the Earth Newsletter (substack.com)
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rapid32.5
Member
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Again which claim?
This vague one?
"Sadly, this picture suggests that there were an estimated more than 17,000 vaccine-induced deaths during the first month of COVID-19 vaccinations throughout Europe..."
Or this personal suspicion one?
"Now I personally suspect that over 100,000 Americans have been killed by the experimental vaccines."
Maybe this one, seems like an actual verifiable claim:
"The result: 17,390 estimated vaccine-induced deaths, computed as the proportion of excess CFR above the normalized 1. This represents 1,018 deaths per million doses used during the first 30 days of those national vaccination programs."
But wait, he doesn't agree with this one:
"Now, do I believe that the vaccine kill 1 out of every thousand recipients? No."
Don't worry though he corrected this one by 'eyeballing' it:
"....makes me think the 1,018 deaths per million is likely overstated by a factor of 2 to 5."
A final chilling 'estimated suggestion':
"At 360 million doses delivered, these estimates suggest between 72,000 and 180,000 (or maybe even a little more) vaccine-induced deaths in the U.S. during the experimental COVID-19 vaccination program."
There is no verifiable solid claim to disprove.
The fatal flaw is of course assuming that VAERS data is in anyway related to the reporting of deaths from COVID.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Again maybe english isn't your first language, there's an analysis suggesting CFR shot in multiple countries.
Again the 100,000 is extrapolation, the other is him downplaying as he clearly indicates, the death rate may be higher in the elderly, which were the first vaccinated, than the normal population so it is bound to be lower in the rest of the population. The other is estimates.
What needs to be disproved is the CFR data from multiple countries showing a spike in number of dead following vaccination. All the other claims follow if that initial spike in multiple countries was a result of vaccination.
Any case it'd still be quite low mortality, even if it were true.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Maybe English isn't your first language, or at least weaseling out language because you read 'CFR rate' in that Twitter post when it actually isn't there until a later post that doesn't mention any reward.
So wait I am supposed to disprove the CFR increase from 1.48% to 1.48%?
"Aggregate CFR was 1.48% before vaccination and 1.48% since vaccination began, though this result was highly variable by nation"
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Case fatality rate spikes days after vaccination. The first post has clear very big graph showing such spike
Another post that also sounds problematic.
Defining Away Vaccine Safety Signals, Part 3
The Chloroquine Wars Part LXI
roundingtheearth.substack.com
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
You are sure that is the one they are talking about and not the decrease of CFR from 1.48% to 1.48%? That is clear to you from that tweet?
Anyway the fact that there is no correlation with number of vaccines given and deaths pretty much tells you all there is to know about this analysis. I'm sure it wouldn't be 'proof', but it kinda throws a wrench in the whole idea that vaccines are causing deaths.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
this assumes no correlation between number of vaccines given and number of positive cases or the fact that in some places your death counts as unvaccinated if it occurs days after the first dose.
Again, the spike is there in the data or so it seems, if there's something wrong with the spike following vaccination, then it can be shown, and will likely be shown.
Miles708
Member
In my country vaccines are used as a gateway to keep the economy floating (meaning: not closing or limiting anything), so you can assemble however you want as long as you're vaccinated.
Which is insane, since the vaccine doesn't help limiting the spread of the virus.
Or, to be more precise, the effects on spread are completely unknown, as you can read in the official European Medicines Agency website:
(Cominaty is the Pfizer vaccine)
The lack of clarity and the opportunistic use of vaccines as a tool for economic sustain is despicable. How to poison the well and ruin a good thing.
Masks, social distancing, 50% capacity in restaurants/public transport, and closed borders should be obvious measures to adopt together with mass vaccination. We will never get out of this shit at this rate.
Which is insane, since the vaccine doesn't help limiting the spread of the virus.
Or, to be more precise, the effects on spread are completely unknown, as you can read in the official European Medicines Agency website:
link: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/comirnaty
(Cominaty is the Pfizer vaccine)
The lack of clarity and the opportunistic use of vaccines as a tool for economic sustain is despicable. How to poison the well and ruin a good thing.
Masks, social distancing, 50% capacity in restaurants/public transport, and closed borders should be obvious measures to adopt together with mass vaccination. We will never get out of this shit at this rate.
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trikster40
Member
Get vaccinated. If we ever want to try to get some semblance of control over the virus, we’ve got quit giving it breeding grounds. Otherwise, it’s just going to keep mutating.
Droxcy
Member
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
It's already passed on to many animal populations, or so they say, and given it can still infect a portion of the vaccinated, larger portion the further from vaccination time, it cannot be stopped from mutating even were we to get 100% vaccination rate.
also a recent video on prior immunity vs vaccination
(6) Natural Immunity VS Enhanced Immunity: New Data in Israel - YouTube
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Mossybrew
Banned
Second shot was Monday afternoon, felt fine until I woke up in the middle of the night, mild fever, body ache, of course arm hurt like hell. Super low energy all the next day, took off work and just chilled. Today I'm totally back to normal. Well, what passes for normal anyway.
chromhound
Member
do whatever you want , it's your choice
G-Bus
Banned
Where's this Cancer thing come from anyway.
Got a friend who's constantly texting me about weird articles he finds and shit off Facebook. Completely convinced this is the government or rich people giving everyone cancer.
Borderline ruining a good friendship. It's fucked.
Why this of all things to pour so much energy into. Of all the things the government fucks people around with and it's a fucking cloth mask everyone wants to fight about.
Idontwanttoliveonthisplanetanymore.jpeg
Got a friend who's constantly texting me about weird articles he finds and shit off Facebook. Completely convinced this is the government or rich people giving everyone cancer.
Borderline ruining a good friendship. It's fucked.
Why this of all things to pour so much energy into. Of all the things the government fucks people around with and it's a fucking cloth mask everyone wants to fight about.
Idontwanttoliveonthisplanetanymore.jpeg
HoodWinked
Member
Which vaccine?
Armorian
Banned
You have 50% chance it will kill you.
Tschumi
Member
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
At this point people should probably drop the unrealistic expectations of the vaccine being able to eliminate the virus, and instead focus on the real world data showing how effective it is at lowering your chance the illness putting you in the hospital kn s ventilater.
Tschumi
Member
The overwhelming trait of people who say that kind of shit is simply that their rate of self-obsession outstrips their ability to think of others.. this dipshit
epicnemesis
might think he's got no value added but the people he infected while he was swanning around might have had a far fucking harder time than him, and that's what he's refusing to acknowledge
Bernd Lauert
Banned
It's like the flu in this regard. No amount of vaccination will entirely eliminate it. Covid is here to stay, quite literally forever.
Yep, the best we can do is do what we can to protect ourselves against it and learn to live alongside it. It’s weird to think that children are being born into a world where COVID is the norm.