Support NeoGAF

[Silent Hill]

Great response OP. I hope it all works out.

Also, when all is said and done, report him anyway so he thinks twice about doing this to others.

 

[Effigenius]

OP has slayed the scammer here, GG.

Well, not yet. We will see what he says. Ebay is probably going to ignore the proof because they are asshats, so the scammer has to back down for it to be a true win.

 

[Weevilone]

Exactly. I once bought (well, tried to, at least) Call of Duty: World at War for something like 20€ through a Finnish web site corresponding to Ebay. It was a scam, of course, so after a couple of days of silence from the seller, I just went to meet the local police.

I suppose most wouldn't do something like that for such a measly sum, but for me, this is a matter of principle. I seriously dislike dishonesty.

Finnish police are awesome, by the way. The matter was resolved in half an hour, I got my money back, the perp was fined and hopefully became a bit more hesitant to try the same shit again. (Yeah, right. I don't really believe this served as any kind of deterrent.)

Still: make him suffer!

That's amazing. I'm in the USA and had over $1200 of goods stolen from my home and knew who the perp was. The police wouldn't go do anything b/c the sum was small. I think they put out a warrant so they could pick him up if he happened to violate some other law.

 

[Jacksinthe]

What you said in the email was a good response, warning somebody that committing mail fraud is a crime isn't threatening, IT'S THE LAW.

Informing someone of the law is fine.

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

An ultimatum was given, regardless in context of law. That makes it a threat and increases scrutiny on Vashetti and muddies up the waters. ANY proof Vashetti has can be falsified/doctored since right now it comes from him and threatening very often is a bluff tactic.

This can easily blow up in his face. His very VERY first move should have been to directly engage with eBay and not the seller directly just to avoid BS like this.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Informing someone of the law is fine.

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

An ultimatum was given, regardless in context of law. That makes it a threat and increases scrutiny on Vashetti and muddies up the waters. ANY proof Vashetti has can be falsified/doctored since right now it comes from him and threatening very often is a bluff tactic.

This can easily blow up in his face. His very VERY first move should have been to directly engage with eBay and not the seller directly just to avoid BS like this.

Yeah that was a huge mistake on his part. I hope he gets this shit sorted out, but he's making white a few missteps that can easily cost him this.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Informing someone of the law is fine.

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

An ultimatum was given, regardless in context of law. That makes it a threat and increases scrutiny on Vashetti and muddies up the waters. ANY proof Vashetti has can be falsified/doctored since right now it comes from him and threatening very often is a bluff tactic.

This can easily blow up in his face. His very VERY first move should have been to directly engage with eBay and not the seller directly just to avoid BS like this.

People have mentioned many times here that Ebay more often than not side with the buyer. What's the point of contacting a company who's best interest is their own when he can provide the scammer with info and proof that he knows what's going on? Scammers don't often try to scam when the person knows they're up to something.

 

[Jacksinthe]

People have mentioned many times here that Ebay more often than not side with the buyer. What's the point of contacting a company who's best interest is their own when he can provide the scammer with info and proof that he knows what's going on? Scammers don't often try to scam when the person knows they're up to something.

To report him as a fraud. That the buyer is trying to pull one over on him.

It's called being proactive, regardless of what eBay usually does. He has word from Sony. Right now it's threats vs scam. That's not a good playing field to be on. Send all the info to eBay and they can contact Sony directly.

 

[Rellik]

To report him as a fraud. That the buyer is trying to pull one over on him.

It's called being proactive, regardless of what eBay usually does. He has word from Sony. Right now it's threats vs scam. That's not a good playing field to be on. Send all the info to eBay and they can contact Sony directly.

Lmao not a chance.

They'll just click a button to rule in favour of the buyer instead.

 

[JSoup]

Informing someone of the law is fine.

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

An ultimatum was given, regardless in context of law. That makes it a threat and increases scrutiny on Vashetti and muddies up the waters. ANY proof Vashetti has can be falsified/doctored since right now it comes from him and threatening very often is a bluff tactic.

This can easily blow up in his face. His very VERY first move should have been to directly engage with eBay and not the seller directly just to avoid BS like this.

Yeah, about this.
I don't know if this is still a thing, but years ago, it was standard that all communications had to be held over ebay. Contacting the seller/buyer privately was grounds for a case to be closed with no action. I had that happen once, a guy sent me a threatening note, I let the ebay rep know, the rep closed the case on the spot, leaving me without my money and no record of the transaction having happened (on my sellers list, that is).

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I got scammed by a buyer once who redeemed the code I sold him and then filed a chargeback (and won). I checked the buyer's feedback (should've done it earlier) and it's filled with positive feedback with comments about scamming other sellers. I called eBay to complain but they didn't do anything.

I randomly checked his account a few weeks ago and it still existed (though it hadn't been active in some time). eBay doesn't help.

 

[wig]

Amazing work op! I'm so glad that you were able to get the proof you needed.

 

[Effigenius]

Informing someone of the law is fine.

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

An ultimatum was given, regardless in context of law. That makes it a threat and increases scrutiny on Vashetti and muddies up the waters. ANY proof Vashetti has can be falsified/doctored since right now it comes from him and threatening very often is a bluff tactic.

This can easily blow up in his face. His very VERY first move should have been to directly engage with eBay and not the seller directly just to avoid BS like this.

eBay isn't going to do anything. They don't 'usually' side with the buyer. They ALWAYS side with the buyer. If he takes your advice he may as well just email the buyer and say he hopes he enjoys his new PlayStation 4.

 

[CMojicaAce]

Hopefully it all works out for you OP. I'm just worried eBay will still not care despite all the evidence and rule in favor of the buyer.

Buyer ptobably knows this as well and he's probably like:

 

[SURGEdude]

Reading this thread just reminds me how much I fucking hate eBay.

 

[PtM]

No different to the scammer.

Are you actually judging OP for trying to get his money back?

Wow.

 

[Brigandier]

Reading this thread just reminds me how much I fucking hate eBay.

So true.... I very rarely use ebay anymore, Cheering OP on for this hope the buyer backs down.

 

[Kazooie]

Great email.

Only improvement would have been if you signed off with this image:

 

[Inotti]

Exactly. I once bought (well, tried to, at least) Call of Duty: World at War for something like 20€ through a Finnish web site corresponding to Ebay. It was a scam, of course, so after a couple of days of silence from the seller, I just went to meet the local police.

I suppose most wouldn't do something like that for such a measly sum, but for me, this is a matter of principle. I seriously dislike dishonesty.

Finnish police are awesome, by the way. The matter was resolved in half an hour, I got my money back, the perp was fined and hopefully became a bit more hesitant to try the same shit again. (Yeah, right. I don't really believe this served as any kind of deterrent.)

Still: make him suffer!

I also live in Finland and have even better experience with Finnish police. I bought Overwatch for ps4 from finnish auction site and transferred the money to the seller. Couple days later police called and said that I was victim for fraud and they already filled police report for me and asked if I was happy just to get my money back or if I wanted to go court with it. Apparently some other guy who also was victim for this guy's scam reported the seller and police investigated his bank account and found out about my payment and then contacted me. So basically I didn't have to do much anything to get my money back.

 

[Rezae]

Some really delusional people in this thread who have no idea how eBay works. "You should contact eBay. You should report this. You should screenshot that."

Yes in a perfect world with a company that wants to make things work. However eBay won't spend more than 1 minute on this case, and at the end of the day will just click a button favoring the buyer. It's numbers. They long ago decided going all in with the buyer is a cheaper and safer method than spending time investigating or creating any kind of legit buyer angst.

I think the OP is doing about as much as he can do, but I think he'll still lose out in the end if the buyer doesn't back down. If the buyer pursues, OP is out.

 

[Peroroncino]

Fingers crossed OP, I hope he backs down.

 

[DonShula]

Can't wait for the update on this. Pulling for the OP, but being realistic, the buyer may continue to ignore. Hopefully the buyer is a punk kid in need of a good smack and the weight of the situation cracks him.

I've sold a lot of stuff on eBay over the years but am lucky to have not been scammed at this level. The worst I've had are buyers who refuse to pay but ask me to send anyway.

Been said many times over in this thread, but never accept returns, force insurance on your shipments, and don't let buyers with low feedback bid. Your item going for a couple dollars less than expected is way better than dealing with the hassle of something like this.

 

[doby]

I can't believe no other online auction site has come close to rivalling ebay. They've got the market totally cornered which is why they can operate in this way and charge 10% final value fee for doing literally nothing! It's a joke, but its all there is. The amount of money they rake in must be absurd.

 

[Lemstar]

Been said many times over in this thread, but never accept returns, force insurance on your shipments, and don't let buyers with low feedback bid. Your item going for a couple dollars less than expected is way better than dealing with the hassle of something like this.

if you've sold a lot of stuff on eBay, you should know that you aren't allowed to do these things

hell, you should know that auctions for most things are objectively worse than buyout only

I can't believe no other online auction site has come close to rivalling ebay. They've got the market totally cornered which is why they can operate in this way and charge 10% final value fee for doing literally nothing! It's a joke, but its all there is. The amount of money they rake in must be absurd.

well, there's this other little site that's pretty big competition for them

p.s. they charge 15% in fees in most categories

 

[robochimp]

eBay won't care, which is ultimately because the scammer's credit card company won't care and will push the charge back through.

 

[BigEmil]

I hope after OP wins he shares the scammers user ID, name and address so maybe he can get reported down and he cant try just scam another person on eBay instead and will likely win.

 

[Leatherface]

Damn OP! Laying down the hammer of justice! Nice work bud!! I thought for sure you were screwed. I'm glad it (maybe)worked out.

 

[Marmelade]

Well the buyer could just reply "it's cool that the PS4 with SN XXXXXXXXX isn't banned but the one you sent me is YYYYYYYY and it's banned"
And even if you can prove with Sony's help that your account was never linked with the banned PS4, he could say that you maybe bought it off someone and sold it directly without using it for example

Point is, if he really wants to screw you, he can

 

[robochimp]

I hope after OP wins he shares the scammers user ID, name and address so maybe he can get reported down and he cant try just scam another person on eBay instead and will likely win.

At the very top of all of this is the buyer's credit card company, they will nearly always give their customer the charge back wether the item is returned to the seller or not.

eBay and PayPal have to abide by the buyer's credit card companie's decision. eBay and PayPal at least try to require the return of the item to the seller.

 

[DonShula]

if you've sold a lot of stuff on eBay, you should know that you aren't allowed to do these things

hell, you should know that auctions for most things are objectively worse than buyout only

You absolutely are allowed to do those things. I don't even know how to respond to that.

 

[Yappadappadu]

I'm currently selling my old PS4 on ebay and hadn't thought about writing down the SN which I will now do.
So thanks for the thread and hopefully OP's "threat" message is crowned with success.

 

[hesido]

I wonder if the scammer lurks on GAF.

 

[Alpha_eX]

I wonder if the scammer lurks on GAF.

Was literally about to post this exact same thing.

 

[Mendrox]

I wonder if the scammer lurks on GAF.

Well the buyer could just reply "it's cool that the PS4 with SN XXXXXXXXX isn't banned but the one you sent me is YYYYYYYY and it's banned"
And even if you can prove with Sony's help that your account was never linked with the banned PS4, he could say that you maybe bought it off someone and sold it directly without using it for example

Point is, if he really wants to screw you, he can

Hmm.

 

[PodcastFips]

OP should be careful with his wording regarding Update 2. I'm not sure about US american law, but elsewhere this could be quite close to coercion/blackmail.

 

[Maximus.]

Well the buyer could just reply "it's cool that the PS4 with SN XXXXXXXXX isn't banned but the one you sent me is YYYYYYYY and it's banned"
And even if you can prove with Sony's help that your account was never linked with the banned PS4, he could say that you maybe bought it off someone and sold it directly without using it for example

Point is, if he really wants to screw you, he can

Shiiiiiiieeeeettttt.

 

[BumRush]

Well the buyer could just reply "it's cool that the PS4 with SN XXXXXXXXX isn't banned but the one you sent me is YYYYYYYY and it's banned"
And even if you can prove with Sony's help that your account was never linked with the banned PS4, he could say that you maybe bought it off someone and sold it directly without using it for example

Point is, if he really wants to screw you, he can

But OP can prove that console XXXXXXXXXX was his and was purchased (and used?) by this buyer on eBay, no? That's at least some protection.

 

[Darth Chief 117]

I really hope op that you've taken my advice and removed your card details as if he doesn't respond eBay will just issue the refund. I'd contact eBay and keep them upto date too as he will just ride it out.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Lmao not a chance.

They'll just click a button to rule in favour of the buyer instead.

eBay isn't going to do anything. They don't 'usually' side with the buyer. They ALWAYS side with the buyer. If he takes your advice he may as well just email the buyer and say he hopes he enjoys his new PlayStation 4.

If the odds are stacked against him by some ToS rule, then trying can't hurt a thing.

Link me to the ToS where eBay says they will always side with the buyer, please.

Some really delusional people in this thread who have no idea how eBay works. "You should contact eBay. You should report this. You should screenshot that."

Yes in a perfect world with a company that wants to make things work. However eBay won't spend more than 1 minute on this case, and at the end of the day will just click a button favoring the buyer. It's numbers. They long ago decided going all in with the buyer is a cheaper and safer method than spending time investigating or creating any kind of legit buyer angst.

I think the OP is doing about as much as he can do, but I think he'll still lose out in the end if the buyer doesn't back down. If the buyer pursues, OP is out.

Delusional? Ha!

It might be a Hail Mary to try eBay directly but if it works, it works.

Foolish to not try, tbh. You'd have to be an idiot not to exhaust options before resorting to threats.

After his threat? Probably not a good idea.

Best OP can hope for is that the buyer backs down.

 

[Mascot]

Ebay would be ignoring their own unwritten policy if they even began to consider giving one single fuck about the seller's predicament. The buyer is king and that's the way they like it.

Speaking from bitter experience here. Ebay is a necessary evil for sellers everywhere.

 

[Syrus]

Ive been scammes f or partial refunds etc.

I got banned for selling digital copies of movies on there and I dont miss selling on Ebay. The are terrible

 

[Council Pop]

(Paraphrasing)"You can either back down and I'll move on or I'll get the authorities involved" IS a threat.

It's a legal threat, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was recently being harassed by someone and the police literally advised me to send a message to the harasser telling them that if they contacted me again then I'd take legal action.

 

[horkrux]

But OP can prove that console XXXXXXXXXX was his and was purchased (and used?) by this buyer on eBay, no? That's at least some protection.

He can't though. It might have been OP himself using the console at the time with a different account.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Ebay would be ignoring their own unwritten policy if they even began to consider giving one single fuck about the seller's predicament. The buyer is king and that's the way they like it.

Speaking from bitter experience here. Ebay is a necessary evil for sellers everywhere.

So because there's a high chance of zero movement at all if he tries... Don't try? The alternative is that reporting the scammer for scamming might work?

If the seller is screwed no matter what, where is the harm in trying if he winds up where he started? There isn't any. Thats the point.

You could just take the L without trying but that isn't logical. Maybe they just take a cursory glance at his history and see a pattern emerge?

No harm in trying. Earth shattering concept, right there.

It's a legal threat, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was recently being harassed by someone and the police literally advised me to send a message to the harasser telling them that if they contacted me again then I'd take legal action.

How about reading the rest of my post? Theres nothing wrong with it legally, but there is something wrong with it from a conversation standpoint. Simply letting the scammer know the seller is on to him is all he needed to do. Let his mind wander from there. That shit usually makes people dig their heels in even more.

 

[hank_tree]

Ebay would be ignoring their own unwritten policy if they even began to consider giving one single fuck about the seller's predicament. The buyer is king and that's the way they like it.

Speaking from bitter experience here. Ebay is a necessary evil for sellers everywhere.

I've been fucked on both sides in fairness. Got a record that was warped and sent a video but eBay sided with the seller.

Bought some cds and when they arrived they were clearly bootlegs. Sided with the seller.

Have had some blatant scams attempted as a seller and they sided with those fuckers.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Great email.

Only improvement would have been if you signed off with this image:

.

 

[LowSignal]

I sell my stuff on Craigslist because of the horror stories of eBay. I'll meet someone at the police station or something safe. Sorry that happen to you OP, my buddy had a similar experience with an expensive guitar.

 

[JSoup]

You absolutely are allowed to do those things. I don't even know how to respond to that.

You getting away with it =/= You're allowed to do it

 

[Council Pop]

How about reading the rest of my post? Theres nothing wrong with it legally, but there is something wrong with it from a conversation standpoint. Simply letting the scammer know the seller is on to him is all he needed to do. Let his mind wander from there. That shit usually makes people dig their heels in even more.

Yep, I read the rest of your comment, where you basically suggested that the making a legal thread will antagonise him. I completely disagree with that, and law enforcement disagree with that too, in my recent experience.

 

[big_z]

I'm currently selling my old PS4 on ebay and hadn't thought about writing down the SN which I will now do.
So thanks for the thread and hopefully OP's "threat" message is crowned with success.

Don't write it down, take pictures. Maybe write you're eBay name on a post it and make sure it's in all the pics. Make sure you check in the box that says "seller does not allow refunds and returns" when making the auction. Also mention it in the description.
Take pictures of everything as you pack it up for shipping. Ship only with tracking+signature, keep the receipt. Basically you want tons of evidence because scams are so common and every little bit helps. As long as they don't claim the credit card was stolen(a guaranteed loss) you can try to fight back if being scammed.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Yep, I read the rest of your comment, where you basically suggested that the making a legal thread will antagonise him. I completely disagree with that, and law enforcement disagree with that too, in my recent experience.

Your experience isn't everyone else's experience. You might believe anecdotal evidence = mutually exclusive for everyone (it isn't, btw) but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Also, who cares what law enforcement thinks? The point is not to drive the buyer to dig his heels in, but just give him enough information to let his mind wander in his own to that conclusion. His own thoughts will be a more powerful motivator than the "listen here, bub" tactic.