Support NeoGAF

[SlickShoes]

People now doubting OP need to take a look at his posts and see how it all unfolded, it's classic scam behavior. The correspondence from the buyer further cements that he is a despicable human being.

Not sure how people can doubt the OP and not see why he would be massively worried about the unfolding dispute we have here.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

So, just what if the console is banned and wasn't the buyers fault. Sony chat isn't that reliable.

In truth op is this possible. May get back a different ps4 though.

I get the horror stories but luckily I sold a few thousand games on ebay and tons of systems and only ever had one return and not one scam. I don't think it goes as bad as the scams make it seem

 

[cheesekao]

So, just what if the console is banned and wasn't the buyers fault. Sony chat isn't that reliable.

In truth op is this possible. May get back a different ps4 though.

I get the horror stories but luckily I sold a few thousand games on ebay and tons of systems and only ever had one return and not one scam. I don't think it goes as bad as the scams make it seem

Post 833 pretty much makes everything clear.

 

[Tigress]

Sorry you are taking this L. I'm gonna continue using eBay though and others shouldn't let this completely deter them either. Still the best way to sell imo.

edit* All hope is not lost. I would see what the person above me has to say. I have "lost" a case and still ended up winning in the end so it's worth a shot.

Oh these stories deterred me long ago. I'm too poor to risk it and the story is common. Besides, I think these stories should chase people from using eBay. If eBay sees that it affects their business (they make money from sellers) maybe they'll take steps to be more fair in arbitrating these things. As is I don't think they should be rewarded for pretty much aiding scammers by always taking their side.

So I fully disagree this should not dissuade people from using eBay.

 

[Zakalwe]

I was banned for telling someone to stop crying and remove their tampon. So it will be interesting to see if this person doesn't get banned for a much harsher attack.

The sexist aspect of your post is what probably did it.

 

[Grug]

When did eBay turn into trash? It used to be great... or was I just naive and lucky?

 

[SMD]

The sexist aspect of your post is what probably did it.

I read this as sexiest and I wondered what you were doing putting that on the table.

 

[RichiRamjag]

This is why I don't sell on ebay anymore. People are scumbags on there.

 

[th4tguy]

If a console is banned, does it even let the person sign in to psn? I bet anything the guy didn't format the system before sending it back to you. If he didn't you may have his PSN account signed in on the console. Have fun with that. Just make sure to remove it as the primary system if it was set as his primary system.

 

[Jazzy Network]

I love eBay for buying stuff. Selling is lol. Non existent for me. Not even a consideration anymore. This pretty much cements it.

 

[Jacksinthe]

A) DO NOT OPEN THE BOX
B) Escalate the situation BY PHONE to higher ups at eBay and forward them his messages and all of your proof
C) Contact the BBB no matter what

Sorry to hear, man. This shit is bonkers. Would drive me absolutely mad.

Edit: Also forgot to mention: a lot of you kids should eat crow. I was right about sending a threatening message to the buyer and it would cause him to dig his heels in.

What happened? They guy brought up those threats and reciprocated.

This is why we don't threaten with the whole "I know where you live" bullshit angle. It never works.

 

[LifEndz]

Is it still possible to cancel a sale after a buyer wins or selects buy it now? I'm wondering because back when I sold stuff on eBay I would always cancel the transaction if the buyer had little or very negative feedback.

 

[Weevilone]

I'd get a police report for the scam and report the console to Sony as stolen. Perhaps they will ban this one too.

 

[th4tguy]

My biggest concern for the seller is what if the console come back and it's banned?

What if the customer is telling mostly the truth and THEY got the system banned through their actions and Sony support (we all know how good they are) are just slow to see it on their end.

What does OP do then? I guess he can get a date from Sony when the system was banned and then escalate to Ebay stating system was "damaged" while in buyer hands and get his money back? All this is just screwy.

Hoping for OP sake console is in same condition he sent it out in and he can just start over.

 

[Virtua Ben]

I don't know if we should all make a conclusion as of yet. No question the buyer is an idiot, but I'm reserving final judgement on this being a "scam" until we get the console back. Hopefully the system comes back the same way it was sent, and then the OP can give up on eBay. May not happen, but let's wait and see.

In the meantime, you need to report his profanity-laden (and error-laden) message to eBay.

 

[3rdamention]

Sorry OP...


However, we said it from the beginning, eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer, no matter what...

And yes, it's pretty stupid that they operate that way....

 

[Peroroncino]

I think I'll just stick to craigslist and conducting the deals right in front of my local police station.

Damn I never thought about that.

Sorry it turned out this way OP. I'm surprised that ebay ruled in his favor, the fact that he sounds like a scammer should be obvious to them even without your compelling evidence, since they no doubt had to read at least one sentence of his gibberish English. Not really surprised he was banned from PSN too.

 

[Afro]

What makes people like this scammer exist? Just poor parenting? Personality disorders? Sociopathy? A combination?

 

[Greddleok]

This is why we don't threaten with the whole "I know where you live" bullshit angle. It never works.

Let's not forget it also makes you look like a dick if the buy shows it as evidence. Empty threats are pathetic and never go the way you want them to.

 

[CosmicQueso]

What makes people like this scammer exist? Just poor parenting? Personality disorders? Sociopathy? A combination?

Nothing "makes" someone like this exist.

This person made the decision to be like this. The responsibility of being a scumbag scammer is the scammer's and the scammer's alone.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Sorry OP...


However, we said it from the beginning, eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer, no matter what...

And yes, it's pretty stupid that they operate that way....

Always sides with the buyer? No.
Moreso than the seller? Yes.

OP handled this poorly. OP sent a threatening message to the buyer. If that was the firat time I saw any friction in a dispute I would have stopped reading and sided with the buyer, too. "I know where you live/have your address" is a shitty threat, regardless of the threat is legal or not. You don't start shit in a paper trail like that. OP lost the dispute right there and he (so far) hasn't said he got the ball rolling ahead of schedule by reporting the buyer as a scammer, he let the scammer take the lead against what very few of us were saying.

I still feel this could have easily been avoided, tbh. Every move OP made was a bad one from start to finish. It sucks, but now he knows what to do next time: escalate immediately, don't threaten, have everything documented, etc.

 

[MyEpitomeCliché]

What makes people like this scammer exist? Just poor parenting? Personality disorders? Sociopathy? A combination?

Lack of empathy for another human being. Far too common in our modern society, sadly.

 

[Glass Shark]

Hope it's just a misunderstanding or technical problem on his end and you're not getting scammed. Still sucks that you went through this rigamarole.

Subscribed.

 

[mackattk]

Something else you want to write down is the mac address(es), from the wired and/or wireless connections. They can swap out the serial that's visible to you since it's just a label outside, but the mac can't be easily spoofed (on a console that is) and it's tied to the hardware. You'll be able to tell immediately if they sent your console back with swapped innards.

That will only confirm his suspicions. His money (and console) are gone and won't be getting it back.

 

[Afro]

Nothing "makes" someone like this exist.

This person made the decision to be like this. The responsibility of being a scumbag scammer is the scammer's and the scammer's alone.

How can a person with a complete lack of conscience/empathy even function in society or raise a family though? Could someone like this be fixed? Just curious, psychologically speaking.

 

[CaptainZombie]

I will say that eBay is like the Wild Wild West with us sellers. I've been selling on there for 12 years, and things have gotten progressively worse. Their policies keep changing and favoring the buyer more and more. I have a part-time auto parts reselling business where I've made enough to almost where the income is for a full-time persons job but there are a lot of headaches. I sell used auto parts and some of the scams that people try to pull at times is not even funny. The worst part of it is that buyers can just get away with it since eBay takes their side all of the time, unless you can trick the person into confessing. I've gotten lucky enough to do that a few times, but I end up having to eat the loss most of the time.

My best advice is to take as many pictures as possible, use up all 12 when you can, and if it involves serial numbers I would also make sure to take pictures and place those in the pictures as proof.

To add to it, their customer service has become a joke. You can get one rep that tells you one thing and then when you speak to another you get something totally different. Then not only the CSR's but the managers at times seem like they are reading off of a script. It's totally insane with what has happened.

 

[Insert Disk Two]

OP wait until you receive the package. If it is not the same PS4 file a police report for mail fraud. Then go to your bank with the report details and see if they can chargeback. Don't expect to be able to use Paypal again though.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Welp

Just woke up to this:



Plus this lovely message from the buyer:



(I had a death in the family resulting in a late delivery)

Plus this in the Return detail section:

Someone translate these replies. I've stared at them for a good ten minutes and I've only been able to figure out motherboard.

Never ceases to amaze how stupid some people are and you just know this cunt reads the Daily Mail and let's not forget he has the right to vote.

Jesus Christ...

 

[Rellik]

My biggest concern for the seller is what if the console come back and it's banned?

What if the customer is telling mostly the truth and THEY got the system banned through their actions and Sony support (we all know how good they are) are just slow to see it on their end.

What does OP do then? I guess he can get a date from Sony when the system was banned and then escalate to Ebay stating system was "damaged" while in buyer hands and get his money back? All this is just screwy.

Hoping for OP sake console is in same condition he sent it out in and he can just start over.

He may just send back a previously banned console, or shell swap it. That's if he even gets a console back. It could be a box of rocks with a printout of a middle finger attached because all eBay are going to check is if it arrived or not.

 

[TheChaos0]

Sorry OP...


However, we said it from the beginning, eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer, no matter what...

And yes, it's pretty stupid that they operate that way....

Generally they do but not always. My friend had an incident a month back, he bought a CPU from eBay but it never arrived. The delivery company clearly delivered to the wrong address as evident from their description of the house. The seller refused to communicate until a case was raised against him and even then just said that he didn't have to do anything about it. eBay sided with him, removed the negative feedback and closed the case. Only after a lot of back and forth did they offer a complementary refund.

Hope you get this sorted OP. I also sold my PS4 to recover some money from it but without a problem. Never before it occurred to me to take a note of the serial number or the MAC. I have years of trading experience under my belt, both selling and buying but it was all generally hassle free, aside from a few cases.

 

[CyclopsRock]

.... ?

I don't agree with that poster either (i think it's a terrible idea for a lot of reasons), but... Is this kind of personal attack necessary?

The dude's solution is to go "with back up" to a guys house to rob him. You don't think he's a moron?

 

[diablos991]

OP:

* Take the day off work when the package is delivered.
* Meet your delivery driver at the door and record everything in a single take on your cell phone.
* Open the package on camera before signing to see if it's a bag or rocks or destroyed
* Use this video as evidence of the shenanigans you'll undoubtedly encounter.

 

[Rellik]

Someone translate these replies. I've stared at them for a good ten minutes and I've only been able to figure out motherboard.

Never ceases to amaze how stupid some people are and you just know this cunt reads the Daily Mail and let's not forget he has the right to vote.

Jesus Christ...

Today we learned that you can put a new motherboard into a PS4.

 

[Silent Hill]

Today we learned that you can put a new motherboard into a PS4.

Ha. Yeah that buyer knows exactly what hes doing here. I hope the OP gets this sorted out.

 

[otapnam]

I do have an anecdote though. When I sold my og ps4 on Craigslist, the buyer wanted to videochat me booting the system to confirm it worked. Kinda funny but whatever got me my $$$.

Would be interesting if there was an official way to document working products so you wouldn't get screwed on eBay (and going through the hassle of proving yourself)

 

[ANDS]

There is no way I would stick with the first response from PayPal. No way. Can you imagine the hundreds of thousands of chargeback requests they get? A full court press on eBay through social media and the like isn't a bad idea as this just shows how lopsided their system is. I got hacked on my PSN account and despite a plethora of evidence showing a hack had occurred, PayPals default position is always the easiest one: side with maintaining the status quo. Eventually went through the bank, got a chargeback, and cancelled my PayPal account. There is ZERO way I would let this fly. If that meant unlinking PayPal and taking the L I'd be fine with that.

However yes, I would recommend everyone on this forum who has the means to to linking this thread to eBay/PayPal's Twitter/FB presence. This shit happens way too much costing sellers too much because there isn't a common sense component on the other end of PayPal's customer service.

 

[mrklaw]

A) DO NOT OPEN THE BOX
B) Escalate the situation BY PHONE to higher ups at eBay and forward them his messages and all of your proof
C) Contact the BBB no matter what

Sorry to hear, man. This shit is bonkers. Would drive me absolutely mad.

Edit: Also forgot to mention: a lot of you kids should eat crow. I was right about sending a threatening message to the buyer and it would cause him to dig his heels in.

What happened? They guy brought up those threats and reciprocated.

This is why we don't threaten with the whole "I know where you live" bullshit angle. It never works.

As frustrating as this must be for OP, what proof does he have? Any Sony chat logs or information on registered serial numbers means nothing - if the buyer ships back a different serial number and claims that is what OP sent, how can OP prove otherwise? All that Sony info just shows that OP had a PS4 with that serial number at some point, it can't prove he posted it to the buyer


Frankly at this point eBay needs some kind of physical escrow system for higher value items. You ship your product to eBay and they verify it, then ship it on when payment is received.

 

[Kiyo]

For people worried about selling on Ebay, there are precautions you can take to protect yourself from stuff like this. Hopefully a few people learn from this at least. Always document everything when selling expensive items. Note down the serial number, the condition, take tons of pictures and even video of you boxing up the item and applying the shipping label if you're really worried (I've done this for all the iPhone's I've sold). Mark on your Ebay listing the "No Returns" box as well. This makes it so the only reason the buyer can return is if the item is not as described, which shouldn't be an issue if you've documented everything correctly.

Also you may still be able to appeal with Paypal. I had one instance of selling an Xbox 360 and the buyer returned a different one. I was able to send the Xbox to Paypal themselves and after a few phone calls I guess they just settled the case in my favor out of their own pocket.

Frankly at this point eBay needs some kind of physical escrow system for higher value items. You ship your product to eBay and they verify it, then ship it on when payment is received.

They do have this basically. http://www.ebay.com/s/valet sells the item for you but the cut isn't worth it for people who regularly sell on Ebay. It may be good enough for people who just sell the occasional console/phone.

 

[Jacksinthe]

As frustrating as this must be for OP, what proof does he have? Any Sony chat logs or information on registered serial numbers means nothing - if the buyer ships back a different serial number and claims that is what OP sent, how can OP prove otherwise? All that Sony info just shows that OP had a PS4 with that serial number at some point, it can't prove he posted it to the buyer


Frankly at this point eBay needs some kind of physical escrow system for higher value items. You ship your product to eBay and they verify it, then ship it on when payment is received.

The proof is his account info, address, name, etc should be the same on PSN and eBay. With that info Sony can show what systems he used, if they were banned, their serials, etc. If the OP gets the old broken PS4 back without matching serial number, eBay can cross-reference his personal info with Sony.

The problem isn't what proof he has, the problem is that eBay won't waste that much time doing any of that.

I still feel had OP got out ahead of this with eBay and cut off all contact with the buyer he'd be in a better place. The OP didn't and chose to deal directly with the buyer instead with threats.

If all we have is the timeline of events the OP ran through in this entire thread as a base, the buyer's claim and the OPs responses NOT including any other info shared here about the story but JUST correspondence with eBay and the buyer, I'd side with the buyer, too.

Still, OP needs to escalate over the PHONE and give them all the info he has, not open any box from the buyer and contact the BBB. That's about all he can do right now.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

The dude's solution is to go "with back up" to a guys house to rob him. You don't think he's a moron?

To be honest with you? Yes, it's a pretty moronic suggestion. The worst idea I've read anywhere in In about a week. However, it still doesn't merit the direct personal attack, just because we're reasonable people, but also because it may be in the GAF terms of service.

 

[Hip Hop]

And this is why it's much easier to unload consoles at Gamestop and just lose a little bit of money (Sometimes not much at all when they have great trade in deals) compared to EBay, but you won't have to worry about it biting back and being scammed.

 

[lensoftruth]

You're not going to accept the return delivery I hope.

 

[peetfeet]

Surely if another console is returned to the OP, the OP can contact Sony again and ask if his sold PS4 is being currently being used (via its serial) and get the email associated to the psn id on that console? Chances are the buyers psn login email is the same as his ebay email and it can be proven then that the returned console isn't the one sent to him? But then again maybe sony wouldn't divulge that info to the op, but they could maybe send to ebay though... The buyer doesn't seem bright enough to use separate email for this scummy behaviour.

 

[Tak3n]

You're not going to accept the return delivery I hope.

That loophole got closed, it use to be easy and just refuse the delivery, the buyer then could not prove you got it back.... paypal realised this was being done and changed their acceptance.... so now if the tracking shows attempted delivery they consider that good enough

 

[Rellik]

Is there anywhere inside the PS4 that displays the serial number? If not, that's not proof. It's so easy to take the shell off a PS4 with a Torx screwdriver and a little force. But if it had the warranty sticker in place when you sent it, and it returns with that ripped off then you have more proof to add. So make sure you document that part when taking pictures.

I still think eBay wouldn't care, but if you're set on using eBay then cover yourself the best you can.

 

[Vashetti]

.

Warranty stickers weren't in place prior as I stated I'd opened the console last year in order to clean the dust out.

 

[Ponn]

And this is why it's much easier to unload consoles at Gamestop and just lose a little bit of money (Sometimes not much at all when they have great trade in deals) compared to EBay, but you won't have to worry about it biting back and being scammed.

This. People make fun of Gamestop/Amazon/BB trade values but in the end i'd rather have a straightforward one and done transaction with no headaches and lose a couple bucks compared to something like this.

 

[TheOMan]

Thing is, if the buyer returns the same console he received from OP, he didn't "scam" anyone. He just got a refund for a console he couldn't get to work.

If you read earlier in the thread, it was confirmed the buyer was already online with the OPs console.

 

[Kazooie]

Read a large part of the thread but can anyone give me the lowdown on whether OP can not just yank his details?

Also if the worse comes to worse you can use a website to send people authentic horse shit. Might be worth having a few bags delivered to this dickhead.

http://www.sendshit.co.uk

Also with this, eBay and PayPal fees this is why I mainly just trade stuff in at GAME/CEX. Not worth the agro. Or I meet people in person and deal in cash.

 

[Akainu]

OP

I can get you out of this, but it will require you to adjust your morals somewhat, and I wont tell you publicly, so best you PM me.... if you want to win

You can win any paypal dispute... and only to be used when dirty tricks are being used against you

So has the buy been...taken care of?