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Sonic Generations |OT| What Sonic can learn from Sonic

sorry but this is a kids forum, please do not use dirty words such as 'ass'

jesus christ when the fuck is my pc version going to ship in
 
After many, many tries, I finally got the
Can't Touch This trophy. Now I can pretend those last two boss fights don't exist. =)
 

Nabs

Member
Astrosanity said:
sorry but this is a kids forum, please do not use dirty words such as 'ass'

jesus christ when the fuck is my pc version going to ship in
Is the retail copy still coming out on the 25th?
 
JCV said:
Planet Wisp classic is horrible. I hate it with all my heart. The challenges are a pain in the ***, the spike wisp is a pain in the ***, the pickaxe-throwing enemies are a pain in the ***.
Yeah, those pickaxe ***holes are fucking bullshit, man.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Astrosanity said:
sorry but this is a kids forum, please do not use dirty words such as 'ass'

jesus christ when the fuck is my pc version going to ship in
It needs to be Google-friendly~

I'll get Modern Sonic out of the car tomorrow maybe since I'm getting some work done (and had groceries and stuff to bring in), but for now... here's Classic Sonic still in the package:

TjYXU.jpg
 
Nabs said:
Is the retail copy still coming out on the 25th?
I'm not sure if they've actually said, though I can't imagine it being much later than that. Still, with how horrible my connection is it would've still been several weeks for me to of download it off Steam.
 

MNC

Member
Holy fucking shit, I just had the worst run imaginable on Rooftop Run Classic. I literally hit every baddy, sonic came out of rolls and therefor hit enemies, jumps were badly timed (by me) so I landed right next to a baddie, not hurting him, and I died about 5 times.
 

TheOGB

Banned
Classic Crisis City is such a goddamned troll, and not just at the end. The fuck is up with the falling platforms suddenly falling immediately as opposed to the usual shaky delay up to that point? I still made it through, but damn, you can't be changing shit up like that without warning. I mean, even though it is the last part of the game and you'd expect it to be more difficult, it doesn't feel as natural. Going from Gen Era to DC Era feels natural. Going from DC to Modern Era feels like they took an extra half step and tripped up a little bit because of it.

Still very good stuff, but not at the same level as the earlier parts of the game.

Mike M said:
Is Super Sonic just a 20-year homage to DBZ Super Sayian (sp?) mode, or is there some other source material about getting golden spiky hair that both are making references to?
qq more said:
IIRC, Yuji Naka was a big DBZ fan while working on Sonic 2. At least that's what I've heard.
Yes, as was already said, Sonic is DBZ for furries
that aren't into monkeys/apes

Dark Schala said:
Does that mean Tails is Bulma since he's good with gadgets and stuff?
Bulma and Krillin + fusion dance = Tails
 

AniHawk

Member
JCV said:
Planet Wisp classic is horrible. I hate it with all my heart. The challenges are a pain in the ***, the spike wisp is a pain in the ***, the pickaxe-throwing enemies are a pain in the ***.
and it's weird because this didn't happen in sonic colors. and this is a problem with a lot of the levels past the genesis stages: there's just too much modern sonic in the classic segments. seaside hill feels like a classic sonic level through and through, but everything else is off for one reason or another.
 
Just got this today and I'm loving it, but for the love of God why is S ranking everything so freaking easy. 90% of the replayability of recent Sonic games has been here, I poured 40+ hours A ranking everything in SA2 and it was a blast. I'm doing C quality runs in this game and getting S Ranks and it's frustrating.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
AniHawk said:
and it's weird because this didn't happen in sonic colors. and this is a problem with a lot of the levels past the genesis stages: there's just too much modern sonic in the classic segments. seaside hill feels like a classic sonic level through and through, but everything else is off for one reason or another.
I guess that's why everything feels better once
you're able to use Homing Attack with Classic Sonic then.

As I play Planet Wisp in this game more and more, I'm disappointed in what they did with it in Generations. A lot of the levels were held together in a cohesive manner, and the wisps weren't used in the manner that they were in Generations (ie: less complex). Hm.
 
So, I'm going back and trying to S rank every challenge act and I've been reminded of the only time in the game I felt something was executed just terribly... or maybe I'm missing something.

How are you supposed to properly swing and jump in the act where Espio has you swing from a grappling hook? I mean I MUST be doing something wrong because there are objects that I just can't seem to reach.
 
Dark Schala said:
It needs to be Google-friendly~

I'll get Modern Sonic out of the car tomorrow maybe since I'm getting some work done (and had groceries and stuff to bring in), but for now... here's Classic Sonic still in the package:

Very cool. I love Classic Sonic's design. I actually picked up the same figure.
 

Ashkeloth

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
So, I'm going back and trying to S rank every challenge act and I've been reminded of the only time in the game I felt something was executed just terribly... or maybe I'm missing something.

How are you supposed to properly swing and jump in the act where Espio has you swing from a grappling hook? I mean I MUST be doing something wrong because there are objects that I just can't seem to reach.

Huh... That was one of the easiest and most fun of the challenge missions for me. Just hold triangle (Or Y, I guess, if you're on 360), and use the stick to build up momentum, then release triangle to go.

Try and grapple from the furthest point away from the place possible, as there doesn't seem to be any way to change the length of the hook, so being the furthest away gives you the longest rope, and this more potential momentum.
 

cajunator

Banned
Finally sat down to play some of this game. holyshitfuckingawesome is my assessment of it so far.
My friend is here playing the game and he says you can unlock the god-tier song, Sonic Boom but he can't remember how. Can someone send me a PM on how to unlock that?
 

Throavium

Member
Out of curiosity guys, if you were to answer, name one stage from the Sonic Advance series that you think it's level design and music is unique and good enough to be compared to any stage out of the Sonic 1-3&K series, to be put into Generations and why.
 
Throavium said:
Out of curiosity guys, if you were to answer, name one stage from the Sonic Advance series that you think it's level design and music is unique and good enough to be compared to any stage out of the Sonic 1-3&K series, to be put into Generations and why.

Music Plant. Music is a big part of the Sonic franchise, but to my knowledge this is the only stage in the entire series that actually deals with a location centered around music. It's fantastical to be sure, but that's what makes it great - rather than factories, cities, ancient or island paradises, Music Plant is surreal on a whole new level. Pianos, xylophones, giant trumpets, and instead of springs you've got cymbals. Everything in the stage is designed to produce a musical note that actually harmonizes with the background music.

QqVrc.png
QUvud.png
ISw3G.png
 

Oreoleo

Member
Someone in the high-res PC screenshot thread posted an image of the Casino Nights pinball table. Am I right in assuming it's locked away in the game files unless you hack/crack/pirate the game or somesuch?
 

Greektown

Neo Member
cajunator said:
Finally sat down to play some of this game. holyshitfuckingawesome is my assessment of it so far.
My friend is here playing the game and he says you can unlock the god-tier song, Sonic Boom but he can't remember how. Can someone send me a PM on how to unlock that?

to unlock songs, u have to beat challenges and collect the music notes from ringing the bell above the door. you unlock the songs in random order so it could take a while. i got mine pretty early
 
I wouldn't say it'd compare favorably to the original series, but Egg Rocket and Music Plant were original ideas not seen in the earlier 2D games that redone in Generations style would be really cool. Nothing was really that memorable from SAdv3, which is a bit of a shame since that one easily had the best music.
 
Sega1991 said:
Music Plant. Music is a big part of the Sonic franchise, but to my knowledge this is the only stage in the entire series that actually deals with a location centered around music. It's fantastical to be sure, but that's what makes it great - rather than factories, cities, ancient or island paradises, Music Plant is surreal on a whole new level. Pianos, xylophones, giant trumpets, and instead of springs you've got cymbals. Everything in the stage is designed to produce a musical note that actually harmonizes with the background music.

QqVrc.png
QUvud.png
ISw3G.png

The Toy Kingdom stage from Advance 3 is in a similar vein.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Dark Schala said:
It needs to be Google-friendly~

I'll get Modern Sonic out of the car tomorrow maybe since I'm getting some work done (and had groceries and stuff to bring in), but for now... here's Classic Sonic still in the package:

TjYXU.jpg

I want that soooooooo bad.
 
I'm so desperately scrounging around for the collector's edition now... I hadn't realised it would go so quick, it's like everywhere in Australia has been cleaned out, and the last remaining option lies in paying three times the original price on eBay.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Tackhead #9 said:
I'm so desperately scrounging around for the collector's edition now... I hadn't realised it would go so quick, it's like everywhere in Australia has been cleaned out, and the last remaining option lies in paying three times the original price on eBay.

It's like $300 on ebay... wtf...
 

Pachinko

Member
I finished this off today and the last bit of the game left me with mostly a sour note. My thoughts from earlier still hold mostly true- Classic sonic works great for the 3 stages in the game that are based on his games, modern sonic tends to be a bit better on the rest for the most part. But that's essentially the flaw of the whole concept, they only took 3 levels from the genesis and everything else gets 6 stages. It's not like they're terrible or anything but I would have enjoyed more time spent playing classic sonic with better level design. The longer the game goes the more irritating the game gets.

1 particular stage almost ruined my entire experience for me- Crisis City. This level is simply NOT fun. As classic sonic the level is almost built around a non-existent homing jump as well as forcing the player to fight with controls in ways that simply shouldn't be occuring. It's as though it needed to be fine tuned a bit , another couple weeks of play testing. Especially the last checkpoint of the stage to the ending flag where the level breaks apart and there's a fire tornado swirling around. There was nothing enjoyable or gratifying about completing that portion. I figured playing as modern sonic would fair better but it was simply not to be, all of my problems with 3d sonic games come to a head in this 1 stage, frequent launches into oblivion, clipping errors with rails and jumps, I was basically overjoyed to be finished with that stage. The classic sonic version of the next stage was marginally better but ti still had an obtuse , idiotic setup for it's final seconds of play, getting sonic to land squarely into a tiny hole on a clock just isn't something that should exist. Modern sonic was OK in that stage. Finally the much hyped planet wisp stage. As classic sonic I frequently found myself lost and frustrated , this shouldn't be happening in a well designed stage but it occured every 15 seconds here. Sonic is not meant to be a puzzle game and it should NEVER feel like one yet here I am morphing into a spikey ball to turn switches and levers , turn the wrong one? oh well, you have time to fix it just keep doing it over and over until you get it right. ARGH. Cool music though. Modern sonics version of planet wisp was fun , again until the end. The last section had something that only bad sonic stages have- that is, penalizing the player not with a simple death but instead dropping them down and demanding that they re-do the last 20 seconds of gameplay because the stage designer hates the player. I did, of course finish the stage but when the feeling I get from completing a level is "oh man, glad I don't have to play that ever again" instead of "oof that was close, maybe next time I can do better", something has gone wrong.

Finally, my other disappointment was with the bosses. None of them were any good really, outside of the rival battle with metal sonic. Sega overcomplicated the death egg robot battle with quicktime events and essentially adding a Z axis to explore in the room (although it moved the camera around). The quicktime event involved with the second half of the fight would have been fine had this been modern sonic, you'd just homing attack the arm and then homing attack the head. Just another example of mish-mash game design that should have been better tweaked. The second boss fight against perfect chaos was pretty much 100% faithful to the dreamcast, outside of not being super sonic for it and much much lower rate of falling through the floor. It was actually kind of dull all things considered. The rival battle with shadow was kind of neat but since I turned the baby chao helper bot off I had no idea what the hell I was actually supposed to be doing until about 5 minutes had gone by , I should also note that it took me until about that point in the game to notice how boosting actually worked. Again with the game giving the player only2 options - no explanation and too much explanation I was left to my own devices to learn everything. Shadows fight was an example of how that can go against my favor. Finally, the game essentially closes out with the silver rival battle and the egg dragoon. Silver , much like shadow took me a couple minutes to figure out, once I did it was OK I guess. Egg dragoon though, UGH. Horrible. They just flat out gave it too much life. You spend a ridiculous amount of time waiting for eggman to change his pattern and basically give you a free hit that you end up doing nothing for far too long. Then the mode shifts to that fall down the pipe, where 1 hit uses up your rings and a second kills you sending back through the 2-4 minutes of monotonous boss fighting before that fall. I was incredibly annoyed when , after finally making it through the fall the fight goes back to the running portion for another 2 minutes before shifting to ANOTHER fall. Just an annoying fight all around.

I've noticed a fair amount of bitching about the final boss too, this one I'm not sure about , I guess it's a boring design but it's not as though it's actually difficult. I'd wager it's probably the easiest boss in the game though that largely centers on your ability to grab rings when you can't see them :p , I was actually kind of floored when I beat it. I thought "that's it?".

All this ranting aside , I enjoyed more about this game then I hated so it still wins the award for "best sonic game I've played since the 16 bit era". I genuinely believe that the current gameplay present in modern sonic is a step towards the right direction, sega just needs to take that idea and apply it to a classic level structure (7 or 8 zones with 2 acts each and a boss fight at the end). It would do them wonders to playtest and remove all bugs, get rid of areas that "break" the camera and graphics engine. Tone down the story aspects and I think they could make something truly great. Worth 30 bucks on PC.
 

AniHawk

Member
i'm missing diamond dust zone act 1 in the music section. anyone know if it corresponds to a challenge gate or a red star ring? because i have completed everything and i'm missing that one.
 
Throavium said:
Out of curiosity guys, if you were to answer, name one stage from the Sonic Advance series that you think it's level design and music is unique and good enough to be compared to any stage out of the Sonic 1-3&K series, to be put into Generations and why.
I can't choose between Music Plant and Cyber Track.

I'd say Music Plant because it was unique, fun, and the music was catchy.. It was also the first stage to pop into my mind.

But Cyber track would just look amazing in HD or even the 3DS. The atmosphere was very surreal for a Sonic game and combined with the music it has this really 'late Dreamcast' "the internet is fresh and new" vibe.
 

DeVeAn

Member
Am I the only one that really likes crisis city? I would have to say Planet Wisp is pretty bad and I loved that level in colors.

I wished that SEGA had levels for DLC but I am certain they don't. Ice Cap!!!!!!
 

Oreoleo

Member
DeVeAn said:
Am I the only one that really likes crisis city? I would have to say Planet Wisp is pretty bad and I loved that level in colors.
Nope, I thought both acts of crisis city were well done. Maybe the negative impressions lowered my expectations but I had no qualms with it. Planet Wisp is pretty bad though.

Does anyone know the SLI flag for this?
I think I recall someone mentioning the game doesn't play well with SLI so it might not be worth it in the end.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Regarding the Sonic Advance question, I'd go with Music Plant as well (I love its aesthetic so much! It's so different from other Sonic levels, and everything in that level is so fun to play around with.)

DeVeAn said:
Am I the only one that really likes crisis city? I would have to say Planet Wisp is pretty bad and I loved that level in colors.
I really liked both acts of Crisis City, but it's probably because I'm so used to playing them now (though I liked them when I beat them for the first time).
 

Dizzy-4U

Member
Orellio said:
I think I recall someone mentioning the game doesn't play well with SLI so it might not be worth it in the end.
:/

I'm getting some framerate issues when Sonic goes extremely fast on Chemical Plant. It's a shame considering I'm running on two GTX580. I guess I'll have to wait for the next beta drivers.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Hrm. I did enough to see the credits roll today. Have to say I'm slightly disappointed. The classic stages were (mostly) better than I was expecting but the Modern Stages really threw me off guard. It really feels like they grabbed Adventure, Unleashed, and Colors, and threw them into a blender. I was expecting (and honestly kinda hoping) that it'd be more of the balls out craziness that was in Unleashed.

Guess I'll go through and get some challenges done and get some red rings. See how my opinion evolves once I start replaying these stages.
 
I love Crisis City when I think about it in the right context; it's the token fire level. Usually the fire level is some cliche volcano with ugly rocks or an oil-refinery gone wrong. Since fire levels are usually dismal, smokey, and ugly, I'd say Crisis City is an excellent spin on what we're used to getting.
 
Crisis City had amazing music.

I think one of the things that feels so "off" to me about this game is the large number of bottomless pits. It feels like Act 1 levels just lean on them as lazy level design.
 

Sciz

Member
I've got a lot of different things I want to say about this game, but a big generalized text dump doesn't feel like the right way to go about it. Therefore, I'm going to try and spread them out across a series of level reviews. This is mostly for my own benefit, but feel free to chime in.


greenhillact12ru9q.png



Green Hill has been revisited, rebuilt, referenced, and paid homage a dozen times over and more. It's probably the second most iconic level in video games behind SMB's 1-1. Generations couldn't not include it.

Level Design

Bleeeeeeh. Act 1 is a tutorial level, and it's a boring tutorial level.

Where the original at least had the good grace to require some careful platforming up top and lined the bottom with spikes and badniks, Generations removes all semblance of difficulty entirely. The badniks themselves are completely ineffectual as hazards; Choppers are almost nonexistent, Buzz Bombers and Crabmeats have ridiculous delays before they attack, and Newtrons got axed entirely. The need for platforming in general is heavily reduced; I've managed to complete the level with just four jumps, and it might be possible to go lower. There are a couple of routes, but the top is largely flat and featureless while the bottom is so loaded with springs that it largely plays itself. Several of Emerald Hill's distinguishing features are present, and a couple of weird curves bring to mind modern day DIMPS more than anything.

There's also quite a bit of obvious scripting going on between the various ramps, springs, and loops that hamper player freedom. The loops in particular are a bit shoddy and tend to break if you look at them funny.

On the whole it's dull to play, missing both the intricacies that made the original GHZ memorable and the unique gimmicks that define most other zones in the series. It didn't need to be a perfect recreation of the zone, but it's missing a strong identity.


Art

Where the level designer didn't get it, the artists did. GHZ has never looked so good, from the towering cliffs to the enormous totems to the gorgeous new cave environment. They may have tried to make it too grandiose; there's been plenty of talk about how small Sonic seems compared to the environment, and it's true. Upward ramps and loops are especially enormous and further serve to highlight the game's problems with maintaining momentum. Even the stripes in the grass and checkerboard pattern in the dirt have been scaled up.

The most thoroughly reimagined asset is the background, which has morphed from two parallax layers of indistinct mountains in the distance to a sprawling array of cliffs much like what comprises the level itself. They're a bit close, though, and you can't often get a good view of the water and distant mountain layer as in the original, which changes the zone's atmosphere somewhat. The sky, when you can get a good look at it, appears to be made up of real world photographs and seems out of place.


Music

All of the classic mixes of classic zones stick close to the original sound, and that's for the best. The drums and bass were completely redone, and lots of little subtle synths were added into the background in a way that reminds me of Angel Island Zone. The result is a solid remastering that updates the tune without straying into Sonic 4's wretched faux-retro sound. It loops weirdly, though, going through the intro again for no apparent reason.



greenhillact2dqu6h.png



Level Design

Welcome to Straight Line Zone. It's the tutorial stage and modern Sonic has a fairly complicated control scheme to get used to compared to classic, but it's embarrassing just how linear this level is. And if that weren't bad enough, it's all but devoid of anything to actually do. 3D sections are very nearly platforming-free and mostly consist of boosting through helpless rows of badniks. 2D sections at least have high and low paths, though both are as simple as it gets. Either path will at least require you to jump more than you do in Act 1, which is something.

While Act 1 incorporated a few of the mechanics and design elements that distinguished GHZ from other zones, Act 2 doesn't even try. Its one nod to its origins is the standard crumbling platform, which tends to be attached to otherwise solid ground as in the original. Every other mechanic is entirely generic, though I believe the bridge stomp near the end is the only such occurrence in 3D.

Perhaps it's for the best that there's so little similarity, though. Modern Sonic bears effectively no resemblance to Sonic 1, and Act 1 already proved that doing things halfway only ends up feeling vaguely awkward. It'd be a terribly bland level without the art, though, and even that can't completely save it.


Art

If Unleashed taught us anything, it's that blasting through 3D environments at the speed of sound is a great visual rush. The stages in that game were a bit drab on the whole, though, their real world origins struggling to be truly distinctive. Enter Green Hill Zone, the most visually iconic stage in the entire franchise. The match between the two is breathtaking. The immense scale of the art makes sense here, as modern Sonic tears past even the grandest set pieces in the blink of an eye. The ocean views that felt absent in Act 1 are out in force in Act 2, accompanied by screen-filling waterfalls, another eye-catching cavern section, and some particularly nice shallow water paths near the end. The new wooden plank platforms seen in Act 1 get more use here and help this take on Green Hill have a distinct feel from the interpretations that came before it.


Music

Modern Sonic, modern instrumentation. Senoue's signature guitar and a brass section play harmony, but the lead is further proof that the man can't choose a decent synth to save his life. It isn't Sonic 4 bad, but it's still an annoying, whiny sound that doesn't mix well with the rest of the piece. After a couple loops it shifts into an odd offbeat version of the melody that wasn't necessary at all.

GHZ is one of only two zones to get a high speed version of the track that kicks in when you're really blazing along, and appropriately it punches up the intensity. There's an extra guitar track added, and the drumming punches it up to the most frenetic speeds you'll hear this side of Unleashed. It's a nifty touch, which makes it that much more of a shame that more levels don't do it.
 

Teknoman

Member
Dark Schala said:
Regarding the Sonic Advance question, I'd go with Music Plant as well (I love its aesthetic so much! It's so different from other Sonic levels, and everything in that level is so fun to play around with.)


I really liked both acts of Crisis City, but it's probably because I'm so used to playing them now (though I liked them when I beat them for the first time).

I'd go with Egg Rocket/Cosmic angel because there isnt a factory themed stage in either version of Generations, and because I can imagine how amazing the transition from the launch area of Egg Rocket to the Space station of Cosmic Angel would be.
 

Teknoman

Member
Nert said:
Planet Wisp was essentially reworked to be the "factory stage," though (especially for Act 1).

ZealousD said:
Uh...

Chemical plant?

I guess I should rephrase that as a dark factory/space based area for a final zone. I havent played Planet Wisp yet though.
 

AniHawk

Member
AniHawk said:
i'm missing diamond dust zone act 1 in the music section. anyone know if it corresponds to a challenge gate or a red star ring? because i have completed everything and i'm missing that one.
i mean, is it a bug if i didn't get it or
 
AniHawk said:
i mean, is it a bug if i didn't get it or

This is going to sound silly, but are you sure you've checked every bell? You might have forgotten to ring one, and some of the challenge gates are a bit out of the way.
 

AniHawk

Member
Kulock said:
This is going to sound silly, but are you sure you've checked every bell? You might have forgotten to ring one, and some of the challenge gates are a bit out of the way.
i'll make a third pass. this time i'll run through completely as classic sonic and then go back as modern sonic. i was just hoping there was some sort of guide that showed what challenge unlocked what so i could go right to it.
 
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