Exactly why I thought the narrative was going to be more substantial (no, that's probably not the best word, but I thought we'd get more character interaction and poking fun at Sonic's less-than-stellar moments throughout the series). Here the narrative just seemed like an afterthought or even rushed with a lot of obvious things being pointed out to the player or doesn't do anything good with the time travel concept (which they probably could have taken their time and ran with).
In a way, I guess you could say that might have been a good thing, with level design and gameplay mechanics being the primary focus and the narrative being a secondary focus. But in effect, that makes the game a bit of a less cohesive product. There is a very thin layer of glue holding the entire package together, but it doesn't seem like it's enough. The lack of cohesion isn't just limited to the narrative, but the narrative sure does play a large role in making it feel that way.
Colours struck a pretty good balance of dialogue/narrative vs gameplay, a fantastic soundtrack, and good tongue-in-cheek dialogue (even if it seemed a bit cheesy for some, it was miles better than what we got in other Sonic games). I liked Colours' narrative and script, hence my disappointment with Generations' story. When they said the Colours writers were going to be used, I was perfectly fine with it because I liked their work before. The Colours plot made sense, the dialogue was funny, the extras were kind of witty, and the game was wrapped up in a neat little package at the end. Colours also had a better balance of meaningful behind-the-back sections vs platforming sections, imo.
Like I said in other threads, Colours just has better cohesion and was put together better than Generations. It felt complete. That doesn't mean Generations is bad, though. Outside of the game's ending bits, I thought it was a great anniversary game. It has a lot of good Modern stage design with a ton of pathways in the behind-the-back perspective. I liked how the modern mechanics were utilized (and I agree with the other guys; the lightspeed dash felt shoehorned in the game for old times' sake). It's clear, though, that this game served mostly as a game for Sonic fans. The amount of fanservice throughout the level design, the music selection and remixes was incredible. I enjoyed it a lot despite thinking that it could have been handled a lot better in a few areas.
No lie, there was an interview where the team lead was going full steam on a modern-only game, then someone lower in the dev team was like, "well we're going through all these classic levels, why not bring back classic Sonic? Like, just for one game?" I assume that the person who suggested that was reading GAF or Sonic-Retro when Sonic 4 news was hitting.
No lie, there was an interview where the team lead was going full steam on a modern-only game, then someone lower in the dev team was like, "well we're going through all these classic levels, why not bring back classic Sonic? Like, just for one game?" I assume that the person who suggested that was reading GAF or Sonic-Retro when Sonic 4 news was hitting.
Going through and finishing all the challenges and getting the red rings.
Just wanna say that pretty much all the main levels get better the more you play them.
Also, I kinda of like the flavor of the classic stages so far. Back in the genesis era you sorta just played the Sonic games to beat them. Now that you can basically pick any level whenever you want and you get a score breakdown at the end, you've got more incentive to replay and find shortcuts and explore.
It's weird, I almost feel like if Sonic and the Black Knight had not come out, Colors could have came a year earlier and they could have spent more time on Generations. And there'd be one less shitty game in the series.
Of course, that would have never happened for one reason or another.
Like, sometimes it gives way too much. I don't need to know why beating a level restores color, I play video games, I have accepted that color restoration is just a thing that happens when I win). Other times it's just "WOW WE FIGURED OUT MORE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING" and doesn't do anything interesting with the concept the game is based on.
I mean, where's classic Amy and Knuckles? This would have been an excellent time to lampoon Sonic 2006 being terrible or having a classic Shadow that is just normal Shadow but angstier.
Instead it's mostly just the same cutscene over and over with a kind of strange overbearing pro-modern Sonic bias (the "race" for the chaos emerald might as well have included captions that say "MODERN SONIC CAN DO SO MUCH MORE, WHY DON'T YOU OLDER ASSHOLES LIKE HIM").
No lie, there was an interview where the team lead was going full steam on a modern-only game, then someone lower in the dev team was like, "well we're going through all these classic levels, why not bring back classic Sonic? Like, just for one game?" I assume that the person who suggested that was reading GAF or Sonic-Retro when Sonic 4 news was hitting.
The worst part about going for that achievement is going through the whole battle cause you aren't sure if you got hit, and then having to sit through the credits and skipping the end cutscenes just to try again because he hit you with some bullshit you weren't aware of
As the Chemical Plant video I posted earlier mentioned, the Mario & Sonic London 2012 music is floating around now and it's some great stuff. Lands somewhere in between the stylings of classic British rock and Billy Hatcher (which is itself a heavily overlooked soundtrack). Throw in a bunch of Sega-style public domain covers and better Mario mixes than anything Nintendo will ever put out and you have another great production from the Sega sound team we know and love.
There are plenty of obvious, fan-favorite choices to select from S3&K, and this is not one of them. Hydrocity, Icecap, Flying Battery, and Lava Reef would've all been met with broad approval. Sky Sanctuary isn't widely beloved in the same way. The music is pleasant but slow-paced, and the level itself is remembered more for its array of bosses than its actual design. Much like Sky Chase before it, it's a zone that exists for the sake of pacing and plot, a relaxing romp between the high-stakes intensity of Lava Reef and Death Egg.
And despite all that, I'm really glad they picked it.
Level Design
Part of the problem with rebuilding Sky Sanctuary is that the original version wasn't a serious act. The Eggrobos are possibly the game's least dangerous badniks, and a light sprinkling of spikes constitute the rest of the level's hazards. It's hard to even fall off, despite being a sky-based level. When you do, you'll often just end up retreading lower terrain you've already cleared. Platforming is also at its most basic; crumbling platforms are the most significant obstacles, and one of the two types is more aesthetic than functional. Most other gimmicks are focused around moving Sonic up: clouds to bounce on, moving bars to grab onto, weird spiked pendulums to ride, teleporters to bridge between areas, and even entire floating chunks of level at times. The psuedo-3D circular platforms add a bit of variety, but not much. The level design is very uniform to boot, and doesn't change up its style much at all from beginning to end.
So how do you make such a gimmicky zone into a level that can fit into the middle of a game? By gutting many of the existing concepts and retooling what remains.
Generations makes Sky Sanctuary into a much more solid environment, for starters. Where the original consisted mostly of gently rolling floors, its modern counterpart features concepts like walls and ceilings that significantly ramp up the complexity of the level design. Consequently, it doesn't feel like you're running through the same areas over and over again either. Where the level is much less solid is with regards to its handling of open air; there are more bottomless pits in this level than in any other Act 1 in the game. The life-saving air currents of the original zone are gone entirely, though they're largely replaced by collapsing bridges and fluffy clouds. There are more distinct paths through the level in general, and it's hard if not impossible to move between them, in contrast with its former wide open nature.
Bridges and clouds, along with the teleporters, the bars, the Eggrobos, and our omnipresent friends the spikes all survived the transition intact. The two hazards are both rather more common than they used to be, as are the moving bars. Stationary collapsing platforms are technically still around, but only in the appearance and usage shared with the rest of the game. The rotating circles also reappear but no longer carry Sonic with them, presumably on account of how that would do tremendously weird things in a proper 3D engine. Instead they've been worked into a more compelling part of the platforming, often carrying items or having wedges missing. Entirely new are walls that pop into existence from nowhere and the tops from Marble Garden, which are annoying as ever but do provide a nice bit of logical consistency between the two sets of echidna ruins.
This isn't the Sky Sanctuary we used to know. Shades of it still linger, but the overall construction of the level is so very different that it feels like something entirely new. And it's much better for it. It's a bit odd that the back half has three routes that hardly intersect at all, but seeing the final trails side-by-side is a great way to inform the player that there's much more than can be seen on a single playthrough, so I'm willing to forgive the linearity somewhat.
Art
The other big reason why Sky Sanctuary feels so little like its past self is the art. The first footage raised some concerns when it turned out to be something besides the yellow-green ruins everyone expected. Fortunately Sega's artists know what they're doing better than any of us do, because the new Sky Sanctuary is stunning. Prettiest zone in the game hands down, and I'll fight to the death anyone who says otherwise.
The fundamental art direction is the same, but like the level design everything about it has been reimagined into something so much more. The harsh yellows and greens have been tossed out in favor of a much softer shade of off-white, which has the appearance of aged and slightly mossy white marble. The hanging greenery remains, accompanied by a wide variety of ferns, trees, flowers, and vines that give the ruins the feeling of a lost paradise that the Genesis never really captured. Lingering from the original art are a number of carefully sculpted fountains, now complemented by entire pools carved into the stone. Replacing the swarms of animal friends that formerly burst out of the towers are colorful flocks of parrots, which vary between fleeing at your approach and sitting on the background preening.
The stonework really does deserve special mention. It's all very classical in nature, an endless parade of columns, canals, and arches carved in a variety of styles, all of it very geometric in nature. Some structures in the background take a tall pyramid shape which recalls the echidna buildings of Sonic Adventure. Rare glimpses of the interior of the ruins provide a pleasantly dark contrast with the rest of the level, sunbeams shining through their open windows. Watching it all crumble to pieces around Sonic as you flee for the end is a delight.
And all that would be great on its own, but that's not even accounting for the real show-stopping, standout art assets that are the remnants of echidna technology that live on in the ruins. Laced throughout the stonework and every single mechanic of the level is a distinctive design that incorporates thick glass and a number of eye-catching neon colors and patterns straight out of Tron. They light up, they glow, they pulse and animate with a distinctly digital and futuristic feel that stands in stark contrast to the ancient glory of the rest of the ruins. It's a fantastic choice that gives the zone an immense amount of personality and brings it to life like never before.
And I've still got to talk about the background to boot. The original Sky Sanctuary used it to tell the story, spending the first several seconds showing the Death Egg burst through the clouds, ascending to space and ejecting Eggrobos the whole way. But then it vanished until the climactic escape at the end, replaced by nothing but an endless field of flat blue. Some psuedo-transparent clouds continually floated by in the foreground, but they weren't pretty or interesting. Generations keeps the rise of the (heavily redesigned) Death Egg and even the incoming Eggrobos, but it also keeps the space station in the background the entire time, a fixture that shifts in and out of view throughout the level. It's a dominant force, one which often occupies most of the area. Floating in front of and around it are numerous additional floating structures of various types, adding variety to the sky. Sometimes other parts of the level come into view as well; the camera tends to curve around and change angles, providing you with a view of other unexplored possibilities.
I don't think it's a stretch to call it the most beautiful zone in the entire franchise. It's so well realized on a conceptual and artistic level, far, far beyond what it once was.
Music
Sonic 3's music was a significant shift in style for the series. You can read all about the mystery that is the game's array of composers elsewhere, but the net effect was that they introduced more complex and nuanced tunes to the series that didn't focus quite so heavily on the melodies. Sky Sanctuary stands out in that it does put the focus squarely on its melody, and I think it suffered a little for it, as it's less expertly put together than the rest of the music. It features the sort of complexities in the drums and supporting instruments that characterizes the rest of the soundtrack, but the tune gets repetitive quickly. Moreover, the lead synth is so loud and hits such high notes that it grows shrill in what should be its most triumphant moments.
Generations changes it up more than the other two classic songs. The lead remains much the same, but got toned down a little to avoid the same painfully high peaks the classic FM track reached. Just about everything else was completely redone. The style is similar but more varied, evocative of the original work but never the same, and paired with modern techniques and effects that the Genesis couldn't come close to. Upon looping, the drumline picks up the pace and a number of new harmonies come in, giving the second time through a unique feel all its own to match the increasing intensity of the level as it progresses.
Much like the art, the end result is much better than its source material. It's a reinterpretation that respects what worked but takes the chance to make something better of it. I'd be thrilled to hear more of the Sonic 3 soundtrack given the same treatment.
I really, really love Sky Sanctuary Act 1.
Level Design
I can't shortchange Act 2 on account of spending so much time gushing about Act 1, because Act 2 might be the best 3D Sonic level ever made. Its only competition comes later in this same game.
The 3D branching hinted at in Chemical Plant comes into full bloom here. Paths diverge constantly in both horizontal and vertical directions, and the only complaint I have about them is that they don't tend to wander far from each other. There's a large amount of honest-to-goodness 3D platforming on display and surprisingly few areas where you can boost effectively until you've been through the level a few times.
All of the gimmicks from Act 1 are still present in Act 2 except for the Marble Garden tops, with the bouncy clouds making multiple memorable appearances in 3D. The rotating platforms are present in one lengthy 3D section focused on them, and are back to behaving how they did in Sonic 3 and Sonic Unleashed's Dragon Road. There's a dark-suited homing missile launching variant of the Eggrobo present in just one room, which I believe to be the only new badnik in the entire game. They're quick to fire those missiles too, usually just before you land a homing attack, making them one of the few badniks in the game that actually poses something of a threat. The design of the 2D sections doesn't feel dramatically different from Act 1 and features a couple of the clever "go down to go up" bits that the classics loved to use on occasion.
It's a great level all around, one of the best in the game. Speedrunners have a high intensity, high skill course to blaze through while those preferring to take it slow can enjoy a variety of terrain types and find a couple of little hidden caches to reward their exploration. Sonic Team would do well to take a long, hard look at what all it does right going forward.
Art
Most of what applies to Act 1 still holds true here. The dynamic, rotating camera in Act 1 apes some of the viewing angles that usually make Act 2 a visual treat, so the ability to get up close and smell the roses in 3D isn't quite as novel here as in other zones. It's also missing a couple of the little details; the parrots are completely gone as far as I can tell, and the Death Egg is nowhere to be seen until the very end of the level.
What Act 2 does do differently is change its focus what parts of the art to show off. Glass panels and neon lines make up most of the floor, which changes the overall feel of the zone somewhat. Three major interior sections are all visual treats in their own ways: the first is something of an arboretum with an overflowing fountain and more of the shallow water that made Green Hill's later paths so lovely, the second is a big echidna-tech extravaganza, and the third brings to mind this part of the old Sonic '06 tech demo that made people think it would be any good. The final escape is a bit of a letdown; it's exciting to watch the camera pan around the tower, but it isn't pulled out far enough to show the path crumbling behind Sonic. Even when intentionally moving slow, he's too fast to keep the collapsing parts onscreen.
Music
Senoue covered Sky Sanctuary once before this. Thankfully it's quite a good deal more lively this time around, and for once he picked a good lead synth. Another thing I'm thankful for is that it's much more faithful than his Chemical Plant mix, sticking close to the original melody and tempo. It's what you'd expect out of a modernized mix all around, synth, strings, piano, and a strong bass. The loop tosses most of the melody in favor of letting the strings and piano freestyle for a while, which keeps things varied nicely. Better than I expected from Senoue, and if we're really lucky he learned a lesson in the process.
Sky Sanctuary is also the only other zone in the game to get a high intensity version for high speeds, and unlike Green Hill, it's actually possible to go slow enough to hear the game switch between the two tracks on occasion. Much like Green Hill, the high speed version adds a rhythm guitar and steps up the drumming. Small differences on the whole, but again, it's a shame the rest of the game didn't follow suit. Dynamic music is something the franchise is well suited to.
Sky Sanctuary got a ton of love poured into it. Sonic Team built it up from a good concept not executed especially well to a memorable, gorgeous chase through the clouds unlike anything else in the series. I approached it first with apathy, and now I want nothing more than to know when we can go back.
And the answer is not "immediately" because I spent waaaaay too much time on this one. It deserved it, but oy.
The worst part about going for that achievement is going through the whole battle cause you aren't sure if you got hit, and then having to sit through the credits and skipping the end cutscenes just to try again because he hit you with some bullshit you weren't aware of
Yeah. Getting hit literally by anything is enough to do you in. Debris, homing shots, lasers, or arms. Gotta avoid them all.
I was actually fairly worried on that last attempt because I am pretty sure my strategy of "press the y button to avoid a difficult attack" had me pass straight through the laser during a 2D-to-3D transition, even made the "bonk" sound like I got hit.
I thought debris didn't count, either. But more than once I cleared the boss and I'm pretty sure I didn't get hit by anything else but debris and the achievement never popped.
I can't say they were all that enjoyable. Flat writing and corny, long drawn-out jokes. Eggman, Cubot and Orbot had decent writing. The worst part is that the best gags and jokes are hidden in the Eggman PAs which you can't even hear unless you look them up in a youtube video.
If they're going to opt for a story in a Sonic game, make it cheesy and adventurous, not have it corny and talking down to you. SA did it best. Nothing complicated or overly serious. Tails crashes in Emerald coast, save him. Amy stolen by robot, track it down in Twinkle Park. Chase the Egg Carrier through Red Mountain. Nice short little incentives and setups for the stages, stitching the game world with a satisfying progression and flow.
It reminded me a lot of Sonic 3 and Knuckles that had nice little set-ups to add a simple narrative to your progression. 6 perspectives/characters were overkill for SA, but at it's core it was well balanced, something that went out of control with Shadow/06, and is just too barebones or embarrassing with Colors and Generations.
Still working on my plat, but I have lots of studying to do this weekend, hence plat keeps getting delayed. I expect (hope) I'll be finished it by next weekend. I have, like, 4-5 to go.
I'll admit, when the stage was revealed to us, I had to ask, "Why?" What made Sky Sanctuary memorable to me wasn't the stage itself, but rather the buildup to it. I never really considered that Sky Sanctuary by itself could stick out because I was accustomed to having it linked with Lava Reef, Hidden Palace, Death Egg and The Doomsday. I didn't really like stage's aesthetics, even if they were pretty.
But in-game it totally works. The aesthetic looks gorgeous and the level design was fantastic (Modern Sonic's version even moreso--I hope we get more of that sort of thing when it comes to other games' Modern Sonic level design). Multiple pathways, great platforming... if Sonic Team continues on that route, we might get an even more solid Modern Sonic game.
Music (Act 1)
Much like the art, the end result is much better than its source material. It's a reinterpretation that respects what worked but takes the chance to make something better of it. I'd be thrilled to hear more of the Sonic 3 soundtrack given the same treatment.
Not going to comment too much on the accolades you bestowed upon the music because I can't say more than, "I agree with you." I don't think the lead synth got transposed in Act 1's version, because the pitch sounds similar to me. It has more stuff going for it in terms of additional backing instrumentation, several layers of harmonies making it more listenable, and the mixing is better to make it sound less shrill (which I suppose you were getting at). What's nice about Act 1 is that it goes through the melody twice before looping, adding more (needed) percussion to distinguish the track from the original. They did a lot of right here. The "Speed Shoes" version, I found, was pretty cool with the additional percussion with the snare drum and cymbals at the beginning and at the end. It seems like they did a lot more with the Sky Sanctuary arrangement than they did with the CPZ and GHZ ones (just going by the Speed Shoes arrangements).
I do wonder who arranged this one, though, given how different it is from the other two Genesis arrangements for Act 1.
Complete agreed with what you said for Act 2. I'm surprised Senoue didn't make that entire thing synth or something else.
You know... I'm not even sure what my favourite stage in the game definitely is yet. There are lots of parts I like, but I haven't narrowed down an overall favourite. ;//
Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I recently downloaded the PS3 demo and it had a pretty jarring frame rate, not to mention camera was obnoxious in the 2D sections. Did they address these issues in the retail version?
Apologies if this has already been addressed, but I recently downloaded the PS3 demo and it had a pretty jarring frame rate, not to mention camera was obnoxious in the 2D sections. Did they address these issues in the retail version?
The first demo, with just Classic Sonic? Because there's a second demo now, with Classic and Modern Sonic, based off of a near-final build of the game.
Runs at a nearly rock-solid 30fps.
Edit: The retail version has a few more places that it dips, especially during a handful of challenge missions, but overall the framerate is way more stable than it was in, say, Sonic Unleashed.
The first demo, with just Classic Sonic? Because there's a second demo now, with Classic and Modern Sonic, based off of a near-final build of the game.
Runs at a nearly rock-solid 30fps.
Edit: The retail version has a few more places that it dips, especially during a handful of challenge missions, but overall the framerate is way more stable than it was in, say, Sonic Unleashed.
I just downloaded it a few days ago, and it's the newest version with both classic and modern Sonic. I'm not typically super sensitive to frame rates, but the demo felt like it was sort of jittering the whole time, probably because of the speed that Sonic moves through the levels at. After the fairly decent Sonic Colors on Wii I was looking forward to this one, but the performance issues have kinda turned me off. I was hoping it was a demo only thing, but it sounds like it's not.
All I did was hold down X to boost the entire time and it just felt like I wasn't making any progress.
Beat the final boss by the way, and it felt jank as hell. He kept starting to say something, and the game would cut out. Plus the "cheering section" was annoying as hell. Bitch, I know what to do!
All that said, I really liked the game. I wish it was a bit longer and had a few more levels. Hopefully some DLC, or something.
You seem to boost faster if you line up with his core, which of course obscures your view somewhat. It's all a big mess and I hope they tweak it if or when they patch the game on consoles for DLC.
Speaking of which, super easy money-maker for Sega: music packs. I mean... I know some songs are in licensing hell, but they could just make so much money selling nothing but ADXs that work in the game's music selection options.
Funnily enough, that was one of the originally-planned features of Sonic 2006. Well, getting the extra music anyway, not playing it in the levels.
I just downloaded it a few days ago, and it's the newest version with both classic and modern Sonic. I'm not typically super sensitive to frame rates, but the demo felt like it was sort of jittering the whole time, probably because of the speed that Sonic moves through the levels at. After the fairly decent Sonic Colors on Wii I was looking forward to this one, but the performance issues have kinda turned me off. I was hoping it was a demo only thing, but it sounds like it's not.
As the Chemical Plant video I posted earlier mentioned, the Mario & Sonic London 2012 music is floating around now and it's some great stuff. Lands somewhere in between the stylings of classic British rock and Billy Hatcher (which is itself a heavily overlooked soundtrack). Throw in a bunch of Sega-style public domain covers and better Mario mixes than anything Nintendo will ever put out and you have another great production from the Sega sound team we know and love.
