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[Dark Schala]

You're allowed to critique something you like.
Its called fostering a discussion.
Oh where are we?

A discussion form

Yeah. I criticize games I love all the time. Nothing's ever perfect.

For example, my favourite game of all time has a really bad localization, has audio glitches in the English version and untranslated text... and is a lot more enjoyable to play in Japanese, but in general...

I criticize it nonetheless because things can and should be improved upon to make an even better game later on. No game is ever perfect, so there are many avenues that the games can be improved upon in sequel or another game in the series.

Generations is certainly not perfect. The narrative and area flow isn't as fluid or as cohesive as Colours'. There are pacing issues in terms of unlocking boss gates. Nothing wrong with the challenge missions in general, but they should not be unlocked just so that the player can unlock the boss gates. They should have been unlocked once the player completed the level, so that it continues the flow of the game for the player should they decide to move on to the next level or try some of these missions out.

Completely stopping the flow of the game so that the player must play three missions (basically find missions they like that aren't too cumbersome to play so that they can just get through the game) to unlock the boss gate is simply bad pacing.

You kinda have to dick around to get to them (moreso in later worlds), and then it comes down to picking the one that looks most fun, and then doing that one and then doing all of that two more times.
And its not even like I could do missions ahead of time, I have to wait until they're the only thing I can do to progress.

Exactly my issue with it.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Okay just cleared Sky Sanctuary Modern Sonic, died on five times in bottomless pits and had to restart the map.

I've realised that the controller I am using (Saturn PC controller) doesn't have enough buttons on it! When the game started telling me to move a stick to do tricks, it became apparent that I didn't have the needed input. I'm going to order one of those 360 PC adapters I think.

I'm suspecting a lot of the deaths are due to the way the camera keeps changing direction with no warning, on each occasion I've been propelled wildly off course and into a pit distant from the level itself. I'm wondering if using a D-Pad instead of an analogue stick is partly to blame.

The level itself was actually genuinely not shit. The design of the interior parts of the ruin are very well realised and appropriate, and I may have made a "squee" noise when I say the Death Egg in the distance. The production values on both the art and sound are legitimately not unimpressive.

Are we sure the shits at Sonic Team made this? It wasn't covertly developed by someone with some actual talent and then had their name slapped on the box? Did they lock Takashi Iizuka in a vault on the moon so his toxic touch was unable to infect it?

As its become apparent that my controller isn't sufficient to play the game properly I'm going to take a break (plus back at work tomorrow), and will order a 360 adaptor before I go to bed. I will try to proceed with this and will try to keep everyone updated.

I leave the game more confused than anything. Its not shit. How is it not shit?

Wow!
It's definitely nice to see you giving it a chance. You have a lot of surprises in store, and it's very evident this game was made for the fans with a ton of love crammed into it. Even though you've already been warned though, this game has what I consider it's own "carnival night barrel" within a super disappointing zone. The game ends in a whimper really. Despite that, the rest of the game is worth experiencing even if just for the music and remixes.

(have you tried Colors by chance?)

 

[brain_stew]

At Modern Sonic Sky Sanctuary right now.

It looks really nice and sounds really nice and the Eggrobos and teleporters and bouncing clouds are really well implemented.

I don't hate this.

I don't know if I like it, but I don't hate it. Its no where near the carnival of shite I've come to expect from Sonic Team. Its difficult to form a considered opinion when I'm actually in shock at the idea that its not garbage.

The modern stages are really well designed, Sky Sanctuary in particular. The style of gameplay isn't for everyone but Sonic Team really refined the formula in Generations.

They get better on replays as well.

Edit: You're using a dpad to play the game? Yeah, just shelve the game until you pick up a wired 360 controller or wireless adapter.

 

[King of the Potato People]

, this game has what I consider it's own "carnival night barrel" within a super disappointing zone. The game ends in a whimper really. Despite that, the rest of the game is worth experiencing even if just for the music and remixes.

(have you tried Colors by chance?)

I didn't like the final boss because it could have come from a different genre, but what zone are you talking about? The quality seemed quite consistent in the main stages, each one having unique touches, car, board, teleports, wisps etc. My personal favourite being the festive stage that was remixed from Sonic Unleashed.

 

[Professor Beef]

The modern stages are really well designed, Sky Sanctuary in particular. The style of gameplay isn't for everyone but Sonic Team really refined the formula in Generations.

They get better on replays as well.

Edit: You're using a dpad to play the game? Yeah, just shelve the game until you pick up a wired 360 controller or wireless adapter.

The only time I DON'T use the dpad in this game is during the 3rd-person camera sections of Modern Sonic's levels.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I didn't like the final boss because it could have come from a different genre, but what zone are you talking about? The quality seemed quite consistent in the main stages, each one having unique touches, car, board, teleports, wisps etc. My personal favourite being the festive stage that was remixed from Sonic Unleashed.

I was speaking about the gear puzzles in Planet Wisp, and the spamming of "spikes!" and "rocket!" for both acts. Neither was fun, or lived up to the original stage, too much factory setting, and took too long to complete. Every other zone is highly enjoyable to me though. Barring the last boss and the Shadow's race, I also enjoyed all the boss battles.

 

[friskykillface]

just beat the game a while ago and i had fun, having never played a sonic game since sonic adventure 2 it was nice to see the new games represented, though fuck chaos city


i struggled on the last boss as well, those fucking rings were scarce and i was lost on what to do.


big the cat wasn't invited how mean, and classic sonic has a fat belly

 

[TheOGB]

Probably the most disappointing thing to me about Planet Wisp (both acts) is that they're like 2 of those kinda shorter acts from Colors glued together. That and they both start with light forest stuff before going to the factory FOREVER

 

[King of the Potato People]

I was speaking about the gear puzzles in Planet Wisp, and the spamming of "spikes!" and "rocket!" for both acts. Neither was fun, or lived up to the original stage, too much factory setting, and took too long to complete. Every other zone is highly enjoyable to me though. Barring the last boss and the Shadow's race, I also enjoyed all the boss battles.

It makes sense for the last level to be the longest and most complex, Sonic games usually are. Yeah there are a basic few parts where Sonic has to use the wisps to spin gears to open a door, ride up conveyor belts/walls and use rockets to get rid of walls and fly up to platforms. I didn't know it bothered anyone. It's just another way to add something different to the stage still with enough traditional Sonic platforming.

fuck chaos city

That's a tense stage, especially when it looked like its the end and the buildings start to collapse. There's a lot of fun uses of psychics there and in the whole game.

 

[Professor Beef]

It makes sense for the last level to be the longest and most complex, Sonic games usually are. Yeah there are a basic few parts where Sonic has to use the wisps to spin gears to open a door, ride up conveyor belts/walls and use rockets to get rid of walls and fly up to platforms. I didn't know it bothered anyone. It's just another way to add something different to the stage still with enough traditional Sonic platforming.


That's a tense stage, especially when it looked like its the end and the buildings start to collapse. There's a lot of fun uses of psychics there and in the whole game.

Planet Wisp was long for the sake of being long, though. I don't mind long levels in games, but PW was seriously pushing it.

 

[CornBurrito]

Planet Wisp was long for the sake of being long, though. I don't mind long levels in games, but PW was seriously pushing it.

Yeah, Planet Wisp starts off fun and then becomes dull. My least favorite level in the game.

Chemical Plant Zone also causes my framerate to drop into the twentys, while I get a solid 60 in every other stage.

 

[Lijik]

Planet Wisp was long for the sake of being long, though. I don't mind long levels in games, but PW was seriously pushing it.

Yeah it felt like a Sonic Heroes stage where it already used up all of its ideas and was just padding things out.

 

[Dark Schala]

It makes sense for the last level to be the longest and most complex, Sonic games usually are. Yeah there are a basic few parts where Sonic has to use the wisps to spin gears to open a door, ride up conveyor belts/walls and use rockets to get rid of walls and fly up to platforms. I didn't know it bothered anyone. It's just another way to add something different to the stage still with enough traditional Sonic platforming.

The problem is that they're too long and the balance between utilizing wisp powers and regular Sonic to platform is poor. At least in Colours proper, the wisp powers were not forced upon the player and the player could use different avenues of finding paths to get to the goal on time. Colours handled the balance correctly and designed the wisp powers to complement the platforming (which was the essential portion of the game). In Generations, it's quite clear that the platforming and the levels themselves were designed around the wisps, which probably was not a good idea in hindsight.

Here, the wisp powers and the stages themselves wore out their welcome. I would say that going through the Planet Wisp stages with power up skills and

Spoiler

Homing Attack

would alleviate the problems that the Generations stages have, but it doesn't solve the fact that much of the stage overstayed its welcome and kept the player in the factory portion too long. Colours proper balanced the synthetic and organic elements of Planet Wisp properly.

That's a tense stage, especially when it looked like its the end and the buildings start to collapse. There's a lot of fun uses of psychics there and in the whole game.

Both Crisis City bits are one of my favourite parts of the game, actually. It takes a bit of practice and map memorization to get through them flawlessly, but when you pull it off effortlessly and in short times, they're really fun go play again and again.

 

[Jazzy Network]

Damn started playing this game after getting it mad cheap on Steam. The remixes of the Sonic musics are awesome. I wish there was a playback mode for all the music in the game. If I have to unlock it, poo.

 

[Professor Beef]

Damn started playing this game after getting it mad cheap on Steam. The remixes of the Sonic musics are awesome. I wish there was a playback mode for all the music in the game. If I have to unlock it, poo.

There is, it's in the room alllllll the way on the left side of the hub. You have to unlock the tracks you want to listen to, but you're free to listen to anything you've unlocked.

 

[RobbieNick]

The level itself was actually genuinely not shit. The design of the interior parts of the ruin are very well realised and appropriate, and I may have made a "squee" noise when I say the Death Egg in the distance. The production values on both the art and sound are legitimately not unimpressive.

Are we sure the shits at Sonic Team made this? It wasn't covertly developed by someone with some actual talent and then had their name slapped on the box? Did they lock Takashi Iizuka in a vault on the moon so his toxic touch was unable to infect it?

As its become apparent that my controller isn't sufficient to play the game properly I'm going to take a break (plus back at work tomorrow), and will order a 360 adaptor before I go to bed. I will try to proceed with this and will try to keep everyone updated.

I leave the game more confused than anything. Its not shit. How is it not shit?

These are the most backhanded compliments I've ever heard. Can't you say when something is "good" instead of "not crap"?

The reason it's not shit is that if you look past your incredibly strong retro bias, you'd realize there ARE some good Sonic games out there. Colors and Generations being the best examples. Sega's been improving little by little and they are listening to fans. It's not 2006 anymore.

 

[Forkball]

Beat it. Great game, I'm going to check out some more of the challenges. I admit I had a mark out moment when

Spoiler

classic Robotnik showed up and they actually called him Dr. Robotnik. Also his reaction to Sonic's shitty friends was priceless. This game is surprisingly meta. Also modern Sonic telling classic Sonic that he will have "a great future" has to be a joke from the writer.

Sega, please continue this franchise instead of making it a one time thing. I hate all the spinoffs and one time gimmick games they put Sonic through. They should make it more like Mario where there are spinoff series that have a shared gameplay. Recently Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. are like their own franchises, and Super Mario 3D Land could turn up to be it's own mini-franchise as well. There needs to be a Sonic Generations 2 instead of saying "hey what if Sonic was a vet?" and making a random game based off that idea.

 

[Christopher]

Are Sonic Colors & Sonic Unleashed part of the "main line" games or are they side games due to the gimmicks involved??

 

[Berordn]

Are Sonic Colors & Sonic Unleashed part of the "main line" games or are they side games due to the gimmicks involved??

What gimmicks? The core gameplay of the current 3D games originated in Unleashed and has been the center of every game since. They're "main" games.

 

[qq more]

Are Sonic Colors & Sonic Unleashed part of the "main line" games or are they side games due to the gimmicks involved??

Mainline. Sonic 4 is a mainline game too, although it feels like a really throwaway spinoff or sidegame, probably because its extremely short and offers less than the handheld games. :l

 

[Lijik]

Are Sonic Colors & Sonic Unleashed part of the "main line" games or are they side games due to the gimmicks involved??

I think their presence in Generations marks them as mainline games

 

[adversesolutions]

Got 1000/1000 on this last night.

Good game, will probably make my top 10.

 

[Drkirby]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

 

[qq more]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

I heard it was very terrible. Even Secret Ring fans didn't like it.

 

[Lijik]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

Not at all.

 

[TheOGB]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

NONONONONONONO

 

[Dark Schala]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

Absolutely not.

 

[Professor Beef]

But Black Knight had chili dogs.

Chili dogs, man.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I think their presence in Generations marks them as mainline games

Unlike Sonic 3. Unfortunately.

 

[Lijik]

But Black Knight had chili dogs.

Chili dogs, man.

Yeah in like the intro
It also has the ultimate plot twist of the whole game being a story Sonic told Amy to get out of going on a date.
That doesnt excuse the game for being shitty between those two parts.

Unlike Sonic 3. Unfortunately.

Sonic 3+K is probably how they looked at it.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Unlike Sonic 3. Unfortunately.

S3&K was considered to be one game.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Man, the leaderboards for the PC version are crap.

Doesn't save my fastest times for display on the local leaderboard (constantly says 0:00:000), I have to open up the big one.

When it records my time to the big leaderboard it never shows me the correct position (I may get 58 seconds in a level, it shows me people who are getting 46 seconds).

It frequently crashes when displaying leaderboard information.

And on top of that, there are a bunch of people submitting 0:00 or 0:01 second times (not a big deal given all I care about is local leaderboards, but still). Of course, if Sega fixed this, this would probably also put a stop to people modding the game, so I think I'll take hacked leaderboards over no mod support.

 

[0 HP]

I'm excited to see what Mama Robotnik thinks of this game. One of probably 4 or 5 people on GAF that really knows what they're talking about in regard to Sonic IMO.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I'm excited to see what Mama Robotnik thinks of this game. One of probably 4 or 5 people on GAF that really knows what they're talking about in regard to Sonic IMO.

: /

 

[HunkyDory]

I'm excited to see what Mama Robotnik thinks of this game. One of probably 4 or 5 people on GAF that really knows what they're talking about in regard to Sonic IMO.

What qualifications do you need to interpret and understand the nuances of Sonic the Hedgehog?

It's a videogame aimed at kids. Anybody who's played it "knows what they're talking about".

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

What qualifications do you need to interpret and understand the nuances of Sonic the Hedgehog?

It's a videogame aimed at kids. Anybody who's played it "knows what they're talking about".

If it was that easy, why have they gotten it so wrong for so long?

 

[0 HP]

What qualifications do you need to interpret and understand the nuances of Sonic the Hedgehog?

It's a videogame aimed at kids. Anybody who's played it "knows what they're talking about".

Pretty stupid thing to say on page 160 of a Sonic thread. I'm pretty sure the poster I'm talking about swore off Sonic games after some idiot told them to buy Unleashed, which is why I'm surprised to see them here.

 

[Yoshi]

Oh, that reminds me, was Black Knight any good?

Imagine one of the worst Sonic games made worse by permanen waggling. It's horror. A good friend of mine even prefers Sonic 06 over this.

 

[ShadiWulf]

I'll be surprised if Mama Robotnik ever makes it to

Spoiler

Time Eater

. If he does, that will be when he throws his controller out the window, lol.

I'm predicting Mama Robotnik won't make it past the Dreamcast era, though.

 

[HunkyDory]

If it was that easy, why have they gotten it so wrong for so long?

I'm not talking about whether it's easy to make a Sonic game - I'm sure that it's difficult to make anything that is entertaining - more that anybody who is able to play the game can have a valid opinion on it.

Pointing out that it's aimed at kids was to point out how silly it is to say that only a handful of people could know what they're talking about when it comes to Sonic the Hedgehog. Playing these games isn't like reading Freud; if you are capable of playing it then you can give a valid opinion on it that's worth hearing.

I'm not sure why the length of my username on here should disqualify me from posting either, haha.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I'm not talking about whether it's easy to make a Sonic game - I'm sure that it's difficult to make anything that is entertaining - more that anybody who is able to play the game can have a valid opinion on it.

Pointing out that it's aimed at kids was to point out how silly it is to say that only a handful of people could know what they're talking about when it comes to Sonic the Hedgehog. Playing these games isn't like reading Freud; if you are capable of playing it then you can give a valid opinion on it that's worth hearing.

I'm not sure why the length of my username on here should disqualify me from posting either, haha.

But that's something of a contradiction; yes, it's difficult to make anything that's entertaining, that's most certainly true. But there are also certain elements core to the experience of any given franchise that make it what it is (otherwise, all videogames would be identical).

The issue at hand is that somewhere along the line, somebody at Sonic Team forgot what made a Sonic game and tried to force things in another direction. This, in turn, birthed a whole new generation of people who had no idea the core qualities of the Sega Genesis Sonics.

The most obvious example of this is Sonic 4: Episode 1, a game that isn't actually poorly made -- it just completely and entirely misses the point. It is a hollow replica of something that the people who made it very obviously do not seem to understand.

That being said, I've always thought Mama Robotnik was a little too focused on small, insignificant details, but if he's enjoying Sonic Generations, maybe it doesn't matter (maybe it never mattered).

 

[SmokyDave]

I grabbed this in the Steam sale. I love the way that Green Hill Act 1 and Chemical Plant Act 1 look.

I really don't like the way this game plays though. Why can't they get it right? I wish I could articulate my issues beyond 'it doesn't feel right' but I can't, so I'll just say that. It doesn't feel right.

The 3D levels felt like the best of the modern sonics but that really isn't saying much.

I got my £6.79's worth out of those 2 acts and the soundtrack though so all is well.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Unsung Hero of 2011 – TAKASHI IIZUKA

This may surprise you, but Takashi Iizuka is our winner of this award. Over the last 18 months he’s been doing a very good job in providing Sonic fans, trying to take on the problems of Sonic and delivering with the product. Sonic Generations and supported community endeavours such as Sonic Boom and Summer of Sonic. What you probably aren’t aware of is that the incredibly friendly Iizuka is a HUGE supporter of Summer of Sonic and loved attending this year.

A lot of what we get in the community would not occur without Iizuka’s support or his generosity. Iizuka was the one who supported the community voting for levels in Generations and he is determined to get Sonic working for all. His wish to take Sonic in a fresh direction after Generations (presumably with a new look) which is good as Sonic enters a new decade perhaps a new look would be beneficial.

Ultimately he cops a lot of flak from the Community but still is willing to listen and interact. That is pretty awesome frankly.

http://www.sonicwrecks.com/depository/2012address2011swa/

 

[Yoshi]

I grabbed this in the Steam sale. I love the way that Green Hill Act 1 and Chemical Plant Act 1 look.

I really don't like the way this game plays though. Why can't they get it right? I wish I could articulate my issues beyond 'it doesn't feel right' but I can't, so I'll just say that. It doesn't feel right.

The 3D levels felt like the best of the modern sonics but that really isn't saying much.

I got my £6.79's worth out of those 2 acts and the soundtrack though so all is well.

Have you tried modern Sonic?

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

S3&K was considered to be one game.

But it's not though. They were intended to be, but they were released seperately.

The fact that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles each get three music tracks in Generations shows that Sonic Team are well aware they're two seperate games, but they got lazy/were really adamant on having three stages per era (which doesn't work anyway, as Sonic Heroes was grouped into the Dreamcast era).

 

[SmokyDave]

Have you tried modern Sonic?

I did, yeah. So far I've played the first 3 acts in 2D & 3D, beat the Death Egg Robot and raced Metal Sonic.

The 3D levels seemed a cut above any of the other 3D Sonic games but still too much 'press forward for a bit' interspersed with 'use your homing attack for a bit'. Nice to see they've more-or-less figured out how a camera should work though. No more random spins and spazzes while I'm lining up jumps!

 

[Tuck]

I did, yeah. So far I've played the first 3 acts in 2D & 3D, beat the Death Egg Robot and raced Metal Sonic.

The 3D levels seemed a cut above any of the other 3D Sonic games but still too much 'press forward for a bit' interspersed with 'use your homing attack for a bit'. Nice to see they've more-or-less figured out how a camera should work though. No more random spins and spazzes while I'm lining up jumps!

Play the 3D levels some more. The more you play, and the more secrets you find, you'll come to realize theres actually a lot of timing required in the 3D levels, and a surprising amount of platforming later on (Crisis City)

 

[Yoshi]

But it's not though. They were intended to be, but they were released seperately.

The fact that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles each get three music tracks in Generations shows that Sonic Team are well aware they're two seperate games, but they got lazy/were really adamant on having three stages per era (which doesn't work anyway, as Sonic Heroes was grouped into the Dreamcast era).

Why doesn't it work? Putting Sonic Heroes into the Dreamcast era is absolutely ok, it's the same console generation, the same gameplay style...

Play the 3D levels some more. The more you play, and the more secrets you find, you'll come to realize theres actually a lot of timing required in the 3D levels, and a surprising amount of platforming later on (Crisis City)

I recommend this too.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Sega, please continue this franchise instead of making it a one time thing. I hate all the spinoffs and one time gimmick games they put Sonic through. They should make it more like Mario where there are spinoff series that have a shared gameplay. Recently Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. are like their own franchises, and Super Mario 3D Land could turn up to be it's own mini-franchise as well. There needs to be a Sonic Generations 2 instead of saying "hey what if Sonic was a vet?" and making a random game based off that idea.

Agreed. Sonic Team have hit upon a winning formula here, and if they cast it aside after just one game, then that's just throwing away money.

I hope that whatever they make next, it's similar to Generations. And if it isn't, I hope it sells like shit so they learn the lesson.

 

[SmokyDave]

Play the 3D levels some more. The more you play, and the more secrets you find, you'll come to realize theres actually a lot of timing required in the 3D levels, and a surprising amount of platforming later on (Crisis City)

Yeah, I've seen enough to know I'm going to stick with it. It's obviously one of the better entries in the franchise.