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[Vampire On Titus]

Delicious fanboy tears are so delicious.

Honestly, the game seems to play fine on its own merits. Its a nice bonus to give the genesis style physics as an unlockable. At least its in there... Sonic 4 could have really used that mode instead. :\ Thats the game that is supposed to be closer to the originals according to Sega of today.

Honestly SEGA kind of forfeited the reasonable expectation for the 2D segments to be judged on their own merits when they decided to market it they way they did. It's called "classic Sonic" it should play like classic Sonic. Fortunately they got it close enough to not rage about it. However, if they were somehow holding on to considerably better game-play, it would be more than a nice bonus. It'd be pretty fucking crucial.

I'm not crazy enough to actually think that's the case though, they were obviously trying to emulate the Genisis game-play with the current physics and controls. It's not like RUSH where it's its own separate style. It wouldn't make any sense to hold on to a better game and make people play the lesser one to unlock it, not even SEGA is that dumb.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I'd rather have a 2 hour game that plays like the Genesis games than a 10 hour game that forces horrible, abominable crap on you.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

4 hours is fine, 10 hours for 100% is good, but its also not "I'm gonna spend $60 bucks on something I can get 100% in a couple days" good. Yeah, the classic games were short too, and you can buy all of them for under $20 bucks if you know where to look.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Sonic 1 can be finished in under an hour, so four hours for Generations doesn't seem that bad. The extra missions, red rings and all that stuff should also add some longevity to the game.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Sonic 1 can be finished in under an hour, so four hours for Generations doesn't seem that bad. The extra missions, red rings and all that stuff should also add some longevity to the game.

Like 80% of the games back then.

 

[0 HP]

considering most sonic levels take under 5 minutes to finish (usually half that), 4 hours kinda sounds like hyperbole

 

[Pie and Beans]

The landscape of videogame value has changed considerably since the days or yore though. I can pick up a substantial platformer like Ms Splosion Man complete with co-op campaign for like 800 allards.

Of course as people say, classic Sonic levels were desirable and here they are at the cost of a substantially shorter game. Its lamentable however that 3D Sonic just never really found its footing amidst Sonic Teams constant bizarre desire to have character switching and foist unwanted gameplay styles in there, and thus when you put a fully priced Sonic game up against its peers this winter with stuff like Dark Souls and Batman taking over peoples lives, its unsurprising people aren't tripping over themselves to fork out.

I wonder if Sonic Team will ever go all the way back to the drawing board and completely rethink how to do Sonic in 3D. I had hoped that was what was going to happen when the suggested "Sonic was going away for a rethink for a while" but that turned out less than true. That Sonic Colours is an alright game because it falls back on a 2d platforming crutch is just kinda sad. There is a winning formula for making a 3D Sonic game, they just havent found/tried it yet.

 

[jump_button]

Maybe Sonic team just don't know how to make a 10 hour game fun, I really think they wast most of it under the idea of Sonic run fast If they give sonic a good walking speed and not like a tank when walking i think some open 3D parts would be ok.

Maybe use Sonic rolling as a ball as gameplay have to use momentum if they still want to keep thing based on speed, I'm not sure if they that good at physics.

and don't give me that bull shit about the old games being that long they had to be back then

 

[Pie and Beans]

Oh there are certainly tons of things they could do if they started right back from square one on how to do a 3d Sonic.

Unfortunately the rollercoaster road suspended above a void game design seems to be their one and only idea for 3d world building, and only when they switch back to 2D in Modern Sonic is there any actually discernible gameplay.

Maybe one day when they're all dead and I'm playing games in a care home, eh? Or will Iizuka find a way to live forever...

 

[Paracelsus]

I'm on a media blackout so please answer me:

Do I have to pay 87€ for the fricking LE and then I have to pay more to play the real game and not the butchered physics one?

 

[dark10x]

Oh there are certainly tons of things they could do if they started right back from square one on how to do a 3d Sonic.

Unfortunately the rollercoaster road suspended above a void game design seems to be their one and only idea for 3d world building, and only when they switch back to 2D in Modern Sonic is there any actually discernible gameplay.

Maybe one day when they're all dead and I'm playing games in a care home, eh? Or will Iizuka find a way to live forever...

You really feel that way about Generations? The Modern Sonic level included in the demo is a lot of fun and definitely rewards skilled play. Keeping the high road in that level is not an easy task yet failing simply drops you to a lower track rather than failing the player (unlike older 3D Sonic games). It's well made for sure.

 

[andymcc]

I'm on a media blackout so please answer me:

Do I have to pay 87€ for the fricking LE and then I have to pay more to play the real game and not the butchered physics one?

i think they're unlocked in-game not through DLC.

correct me if i'm wrong, please.

 

[ShadiWulf]

I'm on a media blackout so please answer me:

Do I have to pay 87€ for the fricking LE and then I have to pay more to play the real game and not the butchered physics one?

The upgrades in the game are based off points you earn in the game. Think of SEGA All-Stars Racing. The upgrades don't use real money that would be pretty ridiculous xD

 

[Combichristoffersen]

The landscape of videogame value has changed considerably since the days or yore though. I can pick up a substantial platformer like Ms Splosion Man complete with co-op campaign for like 800 allards.

Of course as people say, classic Sonic levels were desirable and here they are at the cost of a substantially shorter game. Its lamentable however that 3D Sonic just never really found its footing amidst Sonic Teams constant bizarre desire to have character switching and foist unwanted gameplay styles in there, and thus when you put a fully priced Sonic game up against its peers this winter with stuff like Dark Souls and Batman taking over peoples lives, its unsurprising people aren't tripping over themselves to fork out.

I wonder if Sonic Team will ever go all the way back to the drawing board and completely rethink how to do Sonic in 3D. I had hoped that was what was going to happen when the suggested "Sonic was going away for a rethink for a while" but that turned out less than true. That Sonic Colours is an alright game because it falls back on a 2d platforming crutch is just kinda sad. There is a winning formula for making a 3D Sonic game, they just havent found/tried it yet.

I'm honestly not sure how to do Sonic in 3D, except for the Adventure games. Mario works in 3D because he's always been a fairly slow character, so Nintendo can make larger levels for you to explore at your own pace, but Sonic has always been known for his speed (even though the old 16-bit games were actually more about platforming than running at breackneck speeds), so it wouldn't really work to make Sonic play at the same pace as Mario. And after the 'gotta go fast' mentality took over for modern Sonic post-Adventure, I guess the only easily viable solution is they one they've went with; make the game an extremely linear experience where you don't really do much besides run straight ahead and boost.

Edit: That said, I enjoyed Modern Sonic's GHZ act in the demo, as it threw in some slower-paced 2D platforming inbetween the 3D parts.

i was about to say the same thing, they really need to drop the race track level design with 3D sonic. its kind of amazing nobody has thought of copying the sonic cd intro and just making huge open levels. copy mario galaxy and put sonic on a flat plane instead of planets.

I think Sonic Team actually commented on this once. Their reasoning was that due to Sonic's speed it would be too hard and take too long (and probably be too expensive) to create levels that would be large enough for open world gameplay.

 

[0 HP]

Oh there are certainly tons of things they could do if they started right back from square one on how to do a 3d Sonic.

Unfortunately the rollercoaster road suspended above a void game design seems to be their one and only idea for 3d world building, and only when they switch back to 2D in Modern Sonic is there any actually discernible gameplay.

Maybe one day when they're all dead and I'm playing games in a care home, eh? Or will Iizuka find a way to live forever...

i was about to say the same thing, they really need to drop the race track level design with 3D sonic. its kind of amazing nobody has thought of copying the sonic cd intro and just making huge open levels. copy mario galaxy and put sonic on a flat plane instead of planets.

 

[dark10x]

guess the only easily viable solution is they one they've went with; make the game an extremely linear experience where you don't really do much besides run straight ahead and boost.

That's not how the game plays, though.

Sonic Unleashed HD, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Colors all demand MUCH more from the player than simply boosting straight ahead particularly if you're aiming for an S rank.

i was about to say the same thing, they really need to drop the race track level design with 3D sonic. its kind of amazing nobody has thought of copying the sonic cd intro and just making huge open levels. copy mario galaxy and put sonic on a flat plane instead of planets.

Why, exactly, do you think "huge open levels" would be a good thing? What would that bring to the table? As is the case with most sandbox games featuring "huge open levels", it probably sounds a lot better on paper than it would be in reality.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I cannot even believe that people are actually complaining about length.

After ten years of Sonic's shitty friends, people are actually upset when they are removed? Just what the fuck did you think this was going to be? Have you seen how fast these games are? The fact that it can even demand 10 hours from the player just to fully complete the game one time is incredible when you consider the speed of the game.

Did people suddenly forget that the original Genesis games that people hold so dear are no more than an hour long and feature virtually nothing extra to do aside from the main game? Those games cannot be judged by the amount of time it takes to complete one full run. These games are meant to be replayed many times over. I've been playing Sonic 2 for almost 20 years now and I STILL love it. Based on the demo, Sonic Generations could easily be the best Sonic game since Sonic and Knuckles. There is a LOT of replay value in there.

Every time Sega has attempted to deliver a "lengthy" Sonic title we've ended up with heaps of bullshit side quests, shitty characters, and other such activities. Do we really want that again? Sonic Unleashed was as padded as you could get. The town hubs were a waste of time and, while the Werehog wasn't terrible, it certainly wasn't anywhere near as fun as the Sonic stages. The fact that all of Generations can be enjoyed without resorting to such trickery is wonderful.

I agree 98% with what you said there, but I do like a good town hub. I liked them in Sonic Adventure 1, I liked them in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) although they were not that fun (without all that loading pauses it would have been much better), and I liked them in Unleashed. Sonic in 3D can work mixing Adventure and Action stages. Sonic Adventure 1 showed a good potential, but was the first take at it from Sonic Team... I think it can be improved upon successfully.

 

[andymcc]

that would be pretty ridiculous xD

thankfully, this game is not published by WB Games.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

That's not how the game plays, though.

Sonic Unleashed HD, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Colors all demand MUCH more from the player than simply boosting straight ahead particularly if you're aiming for an S rank.

Haven't played Colours and Unleashed HD, but Heroes, Unleashed SD and IMO the 3D parts of Modern Sonic in the Generations demo consisted mostly of going straight forward with little interaction.

Edit: Come to think of it, Heroes did have some platforming in there too. The game sucked ass nonetheless.

 

[scitek]

I just want a review of the PC version so I can determine whether or not to blow money on it. Those requirements are insane.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Just read on Sonic Stadium that IGN said in one of their podcasts that their review will be up by Friday.

 

[jump_button]

3D Sonic need a attack that not just a win button

 

[0 HP]

Why, exactly, do you think "huge open levels" would be a good thing? What would that bring to the table? As is the case with most sandbox games featuring "huge open levels", it probably sounds a lot better on paper than it would be in reality.

big areas would be more conducive to running. modern sonic levels as they are now feel like time attack stages, as opposed to full blown areas. it doesn't have to be a sandbox game. for example, a sky sanctuary level in 3D would have the objective "board the death egg" and you would run around the level trying to do that.

 

[Seven Force]

It's actually possible to go through the entirety of Modern GHZ without touching the control stick at all. It requires some forethought, but still entirely possible.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

I wonder if Sonic Team will ever go all the way back to the drawing board and completely rethink how to do Sonic in 3D.

They kind of did, with Sonic Unleashed.

I had hoped that was what was going to happen when the suggested "Sonic was going away for a rethink for a while" but that turned out less than true. That Sonic Colours is an alright game because it falls back on a 2d platforming crutch is just kinda sad./QUOTE]

There was a lot good 3D platforming in unleashed. In watching a few more (still trying to not overdo it) videos for Generations the modern stages seem to not exclusively distribute the hardcore platforming to the 2D side, like Colors did.

There is a winning formula for making a 3D Sonic game, they just havent found/tried it yet.[

Yeah, it's Sonic Adventure 2. Making a game, with the Sonic game-play of Sonic Adventure 2, without any of the other bullshit. There aren't many faults with SA2's Sonic levels. The rail transferring and light speed dash mechanics should be more consistent and that's about it. I still go back and play SA2 levels, they're fun as hell.

They've solved those two problems in Generations anyway, so I can't really complain. In a perfect world, though. There would be no boost mechanic. Or at least the game would do a better job of communicating to new players that you should just boost all the time on your first run through a level.

Maybe the current formula isn't my personal idea of the perfect 3D Sonic game. But it's pretty damn close. I've played that demo a billion times and I can't wait to S Rank all the stages.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

big areas would be more conducive to running. modern sonic levels as they are now feel like time attack stages, as opposed to full blown areas. it doesn't have to be a sandbox game. for example, a sky sanctuary level in 3D would have the objective "board the death egg" and you would run around the level trying to do that.

That sounds like a complete NIGHTMARE to control

 

[Pie and Beans]

I'm honestly not sure how to do Sonic in 3D

Not to commandeer this topic too far away, but theres so many options and ways to make 3d Sonic stuff. I'll give some quick examples:

- JSRF, despite getting flak as a follow up to JSR, used 3d-space masterfully. You had speed, but it was a tool to reach objectives laid out across what ends up as a pretty big ass gameworld. In Sonic games currently speed is just a boost button that gets you to the goal button quicker. In say JSRF, speed is used to reach a higher area through physics and inertia. Thats closer to the role of speed in the classic 2D games as well.

- One of Sonic's fundamental character concepts is he can turn into a ball of spinning death. Sonic Team have all but forgotten that beyond the return of the spin-dash. Even Mario has had a fun time pretending he's Sonic with the Boulder power up in Galaxy 2, and theres no lack of XBLA games that show the amount of game design you can achieve with a sphere: take Marble Blast Ultra, Rock of Ages, etc.

- As games like Arkham City experiment with fusing a big open world with structured more linear 'dungeons' I guess, you really see the wealth a 3D game can offer. Theres no need to separate up 'hub' areas and 'gameplay' areas like in the past. Sonic is a fast bugger and they love telling us speed is 'fun to play' and yet sometimes the most fun you can have with that kinda thing in a game is just in freedom like environments such as Spider-Man 2 where you tit about webslinging because its fundamentally fun.

To me the perfect Sonic in 3D concept is a gigantic open world you can race across, with meticulously designed big 'dungeon playgrounds' for want of a better term, where physics, speed and more are used to progress through them to reach a goal area and clear them, then off to find the next one.

Even in 3D, Sonic games have never abandoned a very rigid concept of 2D gameplay design. The corridor like A to B route of gameplay. Sure you bank right every now and find yourself on a slightly alternate path before joining the old one again.

Thats why Sonic Generations is such an odd game to me. You have the nostalgia tickle of the 2D classic stages, and then a so called 'Modern' Sonic where he's progressed to... on-rails 3d segments and then more 2d stuff. In say a Mario Generations title you'd see how far its come since trotting through World 1-1 to the 3d globes of Galaxy and even earlier stuff like Whomp's Fortress that also masterfully crams platform navigation of a 3d space into quite a concise package.

TL/DR version: Not since perhaps the dabblings of stuff in SA1, I position that Sonic's gameplay has never really 'gone 3d' beyond a very narrow and still 2D route like foundation.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

big areas would be more conducive to running. modern sonic levels as they are now feel like time attack stages, as opposed to full blown areas. it doesn't have to be a sandbox game. for example, a sky sanctuary level in 3D would have the objective "board the death egg" and you would run around the level trying to do that.

The best 3D Sonic levels aren't complicated like that, they're essentially race tracks with platforming obstacles. I mean it couldn't get more transparent than when they added drifting in Unleashed.

I think modern Sonic levels as they are now feel like well designed obstacle courses, and his controls are tailor suited for that. To make his gameplay work in more open area's they'd have to substantially change Sonic's controls.

 

[0 HP]

That sounds like a complete NIGHTMARE to control

off the top of my head, i don't know how you would do the controls on a typical joystick, but i think it could be done pretty easily with the wii remote/nunchuck.

 

[Tambini]

The game is only £15 retail in the UK so 10 hours for 100% is fine by me.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

"Sonic Unleashed is too long! Just make a short game without all the crap time wasting!"

*they do exactly that*

"uuuugh this game is too short!"

I love you guys.

I'm not angry about it, but they should have taken the Colors approach and had the 2 main acts for each zone and then had acts 4-6 which reused assets from those. In that sense, it's almost undeniable to see it as a step back in that regard. Missions will add variety, but most players would prefer more stages instead.

 

[Ashkeloth]

The game is only £15 retail in the UK so 10 hours for 100% is fine by me.

...No it's not?

ShopTo have it for £35, as do Amazon.co.uk

Also, anyone complaining about the length needs to understand how Sonic games work. You beat them, and then spend ages trying to get the fastest time on each stage and discover new routes and tricks to shave a couple of seconds off each time. I've already spent well over 2 hours screwing around with modern Sonic on the Sonic Generations demo, and that's just one level.

 

[dark10x]

I'm not angry about it, but they should have taken the Colors approach and had the 2 main acts for each zone and then had acts 4-6 which reused assets from those. In that sense, it's almost undeniable to see it as a step back in that regard. Missions will add variety, but most players would prefer more stages instead.

I actually have to disagree. I didn't think the stage design in Colors was all that good and I disliked the constant repetition of the visuals. Would definitely have preferred fewer stages that were more concentrated.

 

[Tambini]

...No it's not?

ShopTo have it for £35, as do Amazon.co.uk

Oops was talking PC version

 

[Ashkeloth]

Oops was talking PC version

Ah, makes sense. I always manage to forget this game even has a PC version since I don't own a good enough PC to run it on. Hopefully the port's decent, but that price either means that it's being phoned in and is terrible, or SEGA actually understands how the PC market works. Hopefully the latter.

 

[Yoshi]

To me the perfect Sonic in 3D concept is a gigantic open world you can race across, with meticulously designed big 'dungeon playgrounds' for want of a better term, where physics, speed and more are used to progress through them to reach a goal area and clear them, then off to find the next one.

Lucky me, that you don't have a say in Sonic design.

 

[Tambini]

Ah, makes sense. I always manage to forget this game even has a PC version since I don't own a good enough PC to run it on. Hopefully the port's decent, but that price either means that it's being phoned in and is terrible, or SEGA actually understands how the PC market works. Hopefully the latter.

Yeah thats the reason I haven't pre ordered yet, waiting for impressions.

 

[Veal]

I cannot even believe that people are actually complaining about length.

After ten years of Sonic's shitty friends, people are actually upset when they are removed? Just what the fuck did you think this was going to be? Have you seen how fast these games are? The fact that it can even demand 10 hours from the player just to fully complete the game one time is incredible when you consider the speed of the game.

Did people suddenly forget that the original Genesis games that people hold so dear are no more than an hour long and feature virtually nothing extra to do aside from the main game? Those games cannot be judged by the amount of time it takes to complete one full run. These games are meant to be replayed many times over. I've been playing Sonic 2 for almost 20 years now and I STILL love it. Based on the demo, Sonic Generations could easily be the best Sonic game since Sonic and Knuckles. There is a LOT of replay value in there.

Every time Sega has attempted to deliver a "lengthy" Sonic title we've ended up with heaps of bullshit side quests, shitty characters, and other such activities. Do we really want that again? Sonic Unleashed was as padded as you could get. The town hubs were a waste of time and, while the Werehog wasn't terrible, it certainly wasn't anywhere near as fun as the Sonic stages. The fact that all of Generations can be enjoyed without resorting to such trickery is wonderful.

Sonic fans are something else. As long as the game doesn't have those dreadfully long stages like Heroes, this length is perfect! Gives you a chance to work on speedruns or something.

 

[0 HP]

Lucky me, that you don't have a say in Sonic design.

whats wrong with what he's saying? sonic's design atm is dog shit.

 

[Hasemo]

I'd order the PC version from GMG, but I'm not even sure if it'll work with the Japanese Steam, as the game isn't even available for preorder here.

 

[ShadiWulf]

Finally, a good long version of City Escape modern music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bxMmWGPHs

 

[AwakenedCloud]

I actually have to disagree. I didn't think the stage design in Colors was all that good and I disliked the constant repetition of the visuals. Would definitely have preferred fewer stages that were more concentrated.

Even so, I doubt there'd really be any objections to having an act 1 & 2 per character at the very least.

 

[G0523]

I like how many people are complaining of the game's length but think about it: Have you ever completed a Sonic game (or any game for that matter) the first time through without dying or messing up? It's going to take more than the supposed 4 hours that we've been reading about. Just make sure to have plenty of extra lives at our disposal.

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

I like how many people are complaining of the game's length but think about it: Have you ever completed a Sonic game (or any game for that matter) the first time through without dying or messing up? It's going to take more than the supposed 4 hours that we've been reading about. Just make sure to have plenty of extra lives at our disposal.

the levels are like...5 minutes long. That 4 hours seems to take that into account

 

[FreeMufasa]

Finally, a good long version of City Escape modern music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bxMmWGPHs

Oh fuck. I nostalgia'd hard. I NEED this game day 1. I think i'll cancel my Uncharted 3 pre-order in favour of this.

 

[Sciz]

Sonic Team's barely capable of constructing compelling racetracks in the sky and some of you people want them to try an open world game? Good lord. Yeah, the Sonic CD intro looks cool as hell, but that isn't even remotely possible to play without scripting most of it even more heavily than the games are now.

If you want a giant world to just run around in at high speeds, go buy FUEL.

 

[Throavium]

Not once have I completed a Sonic game then thought, "I beat it, I no longer want to play it".

 

[LeonSKennedy90]

Not once have I completed a Sonic game then thought, "I beat it, I no longer want to play it".

I'm gonna imagine you never completed Sonic 06, Secret Rings, Heroes, etc

 

[R_thanatos]

I consider myself a sonic fan ..and i want as much as i liked unleashed to an extend wasting 30 minutes in a stage wasn't what i wanted ( especially when they ask you afterward to perfect this stage and you have to retry because this part à 20minutes is buggy as hell )

fOR ME THE FIRST ADVENTURE was what i wanted ... a good sonic adventure and then retake on the old stage with new habilities ..
i dislike shadow , silver and messy stages ( i hate sonic 2006 )

i just want sonic generation to take an old view on sonic , not to innovate ..it's doing exactly that ..i don't think many sonic fans wants ALWAYS something new ... i want a dose of new things but i honnestly believe they got it close to perfect this time.

For the lenght, i don't care if it's 4 hours as long as don't see everything right awayi played this demo 7 times and i found new things i hadn't seen on the 6th & 7th run ... that's honestly what i'm asking ..

 

[Throavium]

I'm gonna imagine you never completed Sonic 06, Secret Rings, Heroes, etc

Yeah, I thought about what I was going to type before I typed it.