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Sonic Generations |OT| What Sonic can learn from Sonic
- Thread starter RobbieNick
- Start date
Hot Coldman
Banned
Dark Schala said:
I can't even tell what the fuck this is supposed to be, and the choice of track is in the video name. o.o
holy christ
Damn, I just decided to buy this over Uncharted 3 next week.
Kind of surprising given my last Sonic purchase was Rush(good!), and I absolutely hated Sonic Adventure 1/2(imported a DC for the first awful game, didn't learn my lesson giving the sequel a shot). I have not touched anything storybook related, '06, Unleashed, Heroes, etc...
But yea, the demo really sold me and the HUB world video in the OP showing off the optional missions and all the classic stage updates has me super interested. Sonic 2 was one of the most anticipated releases of my childhood and it's nicely cathartic to be having those same feelings again.
Also just out of curiosity, if I loved Rush(except the frustrating boss battles) would it be worth checking out Rush Adventure or Colors on DS?
Kind of surprising given my last Sonic purchase was Rush(good!), and I absolutely hated Sonic Adventure 1/2(imported a DC for the first awful game, didn't learn my lesson giving the sequel a shot). I have not touched anything storybook related, '06, Unleashed, Heroes, etc...
But yea, the demo really sold me and the HUB world video in the OP showing off the optional missions and all the classic stage updates has me super interested. Sonic 2 was one of the most anticipated releases of my childhood and it's nicely cathartic to be having those same feelings again.
Also just out of curiosity, if I loved Rush(except the frustrating boss battles) would it be worth checking out Rush Adventure or Colors on DS?
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
Brandon F said:
Yes. The boss fights are still frustrating with how long they are, but the level design is better(less bottomless pits from no warning, less segmented rooms with badguys to boost into and screw up the pacing), and although I haven't played Colors DS fully...its basically Sonic Rush 3
The Hermit
Member
Green Scar said:
Best version of Sonic 1 intro: http://www.youtube.com/user/SONIC1SONICHEDGEHOG#p/u/7/pDUh5n7qPVM
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Some of the remixes are cool, but others are really...blah... the
remix is just the same thing done with better soundfonts... and somehow that alone sucked all of the awesome New Jack Swing vibe out of the song.
Hydrocity Zone
spindashing
Banned
Charoncaori
Member
My friend just linked me to this after I showed him the remastered Angel Zone track... holy hell. Skip to about a minute in. I couldn't find it on youtube.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1149863216010157450
From what I've heard of Generations on youtube (I'm desperately trying to hold out until the game is released), some of the modern/classic remixes sound pretty similar. I was expecting more 90s VG synth stuff. Still, I mostly like the tracks so far.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1149863216010157450
From what I've heard of Generations on youtube (I'm desperately trying to hold out until the game is released), some of the modern/classic remixes sound pretty similar. I was expecting more 90s VG synth stuff. Still, I mostly like the tracks so far.
The Mana Legend
Banned
I canceled Uncharted 3 preorder to get this on Steam. I can't wait. <3
SuperAngelo64
Banned
A part of me wanted the 'Classic' remixes to sound a lot more like this. Since I always felt that the Genesis games, especially Sonic 3, were trying to go for that New Jack Swing style, since that was what was cool in the 90's. I mean they went as far as to hire a ton of western New Jack Swing veterans as composers in Sonic 3.
Same how all the early 2000's Sonic music sounded like pop-punk. Since Sonic is supposed just be the ever-changing epitome of whatever is 'cool', I wanted the Classic stuff to really ooze 90's. Probably just nostalgia mongering though.
The soundtrack is still 5-star stuff though. Love it.
Same how all the early 2000's Sonic music sounded like pop-punk. Since Sonic is supposed just be the ever-changing epitome of whatever is 'cool', I wanted the Classic stuff to really ooze 90's. Probably just nostalgia mongering though.
The soundtrack is still 5-star stuff though. Love it.
Green Scar said:
LOLLLL WAOW!
I need to play Sonic 2 with this in background and try to stay serious. XD
Loved this one too!
(DUH DUUUUUUUUH DADADAAAADADA...)
The Mana Legend
Banned
ShortBus said:
I got both Uncharted 1 and 2 as gifts, so paying $60 for Uncharted 3 just feels wrong. I will wait until someone gifts me it, or I use a gift card on it over Christmas or something.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Okay, WOW!
I just discovered the Speed Up! jingles. They're unique for each stage! This is awesome!
I just discovered the Speed Up! jingles. They're unique for each stage! This is awesome!
The Mana Legend
Banned
Seik said:
Sad part is, this is how most Sega Genesis music really sounded.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I've watched every part of the spoiler walkthrough and three things come to mind
1) this game is beyond a love letter to the fans, it's a screaming dedication of public love in the most cheesy, but secretly adorable way. What has been missed in the actual main game acts in terms of fan service, has been picked up by the challenges. Some of them reference a lot of the cool features of the old genesis games that you would of thought long, long forgotten.
2) I'm going to lay the blame solely at the feet of classic-only fans for this one :- the game is way too damn easy. The player is an absolute retard and while I'm glad he is progressing through the game, his walkthrough is proof enough that all you need to beat this game is opposing thumbs.
Why I blame classic-only fans for this is because, while the genesis games surely did have a difficulty curve, even one that you could argue is STEEPER than the modern ones, it has been their constant screaming and whining about so called "cheap" deaths from bottomless pits, trap placements and the like that has prompted sega to remove anything from this game that could remotely seen as difficult and frustrating IMHO. Sonic has never been a game with accessibility problems so it's a shame that completing this game will be so so easy.
The hard modes remain to be seen, but unless there is a drastic spike in difficulty this game is going to be a cakewalk. Even things that sonic fans of all ages have come to understand are supposed to lead to your death,
have been removed.
All I'm going to say is they have got what they deserved and ruined it for the rest of us. Thanks guys.
3) although easy, this game is going to have a decent amount of replayabilty as each challenge act, rather than a simple rerun of a level, has it's own design. It might only take 4 hours to beat the game according to IGN but you will be playing this for far longer than that. Based on what I've seen so far, it looks to take at least double that to get everything, upgraded to the max ( with different skill configurations for your preferred playstyle ) and explore every path in every act and challenge. Unleashed and colours might just edge it out in terms of stuff to do, but I'd argue it's easily on par with the adventures and heroes in game value in terms of time investment needed.
All in all, I can't wait to get my hands on it and I honest think you should too, even the people who are still hung up on it not being a line for line code recreation of the genesis physics. Even if you hate modern sonic with a passion, the classic sonic acts in the main game coupled with the challenges would easily stand on its own as a full title. Your not being cheated by having to put up with modern sonic "filler" for the most part, except for the fact that you have to complete his acts once to progress to the next stage and eventually complete the game.
1) this game is beyond a love letter to the fans, it's a screaming dedication of public love in the most cheesy, but secretly adorable way. What has been missed in the actual main game acts in terms of fan service, has been picked up by the challenges. Some of them reference a lot of the cool features of the old genesis games that you would of thought long, long forgotten.
2) I'm going to lay the blame solely at the feet of classic-only fans for this one :- the game is way too damn easy. The player is an absolute retard and while I'm glad he is progressing through the game, his walkthrough is proof enough that all you need to beat this game is opposing thumbs.
Why I blame classic-only fans for this is because, while the genesis games surely did have a difficulty curve, even one that you could argue is STEEPER than the modern ones, it has been their constant screaming and whining about so called "cheap" deaths from bottomless pits, trap placements and the like that has prompted sega to remove anything from this game that could remotely seen as difficult and frustrating IMHO. Sonic has never been a game with accessibility problems so it's a shame that completing this game will be so so easy.
The hard modes remain to be seen, but unless there is a drastic spike in difficulty this game is going to be a cakewalk. Even things that sonic fans of all ages have come to understand are supposed to lead to your death,
like being crushed by platforms,
I was particularly annoyed at the fantastic classic tails challenge in chemical plant because tails now never gets tired while carrying you :- which is something that would have been fair to keep in and would of added a layer of strategy to a amazing level
All I'm going to say is they have got what they deserved and ruined it for the rest of us. Thanks guys.
3) although easy, this game is going to have a decent amount of replayabilty as each challenge act, rather than a simple rerun of a level, has it's own design. It might only take 4 hours to beat the game according to IGN but you will be playing this for far longer than that. Based on what I've seen so far, it looks to take at least double that to get everything, upgraded to the max ( with different skill configurations for your preferred playstyle ) and explore every path in every act and challenge. Unleashed and colours might just edge it out in terms of stuff to do, but I'd argue it's easily on par with the adventures and heroes in game value in terms of time investment needed.
All in all, I can't wait to get my hands on it and I honest think you should too, even the people who are still hung up on it not being a line for line code recreation of the genesis physics. Even if you hate modern sonic with a passion, the classic sonic acts in the main game coupled with the challenges would easily stand on its own as a full title. Your not being cheated by having to put up with modern sonic "filler" for the most part, except for the fact that you have to complete his acts once to progress to the next stage and eventually complete the game.
Here's an example of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=h8zMo3uBOYo&v=fjpj0PdJYY4#t=5m18sluka said:
It's from
Rooftop Run
Take a look at this and tell me it looks too easy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=h8zMo3uBOYo&v=fjpj0PdJYY4#t=4m55s
8th level.
The Xtortionist
Member
Synless said:
I feel like I should beat Uncharted in one sitting, so it'll be Friday for me.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Noooo!
Just realized this is releasing on the 4th on PC instead of the 1st! :-(
I mean, I'm sure Uncharted 3 will keep me plenty busy; but I'm sad that I can't use Generations as a fun time killer/break in between sessions.
Just realized this is releasing on the 4th on PC instead of the 1st! :-(
I mean, I'm sure Uncharted 3 will keep me plenty busy; but I'm sad that I can't use Generations as a fun time killer/break in between sessions.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Synless said:
Uncharted 1 and 2 were not that spectacular. Uncharted 3 is not this "event" game to me like it is to everyone else. I know exactly what I am getting out of Uncharted 3, and I know it will not last me beyond one playthrough (I won't even touch the Multiplayer Brought to You by Subway).
Where as I haven't been this excited for a Sonic game since Sonic 2.
So it's our fault that the game isn't as good as the games we wanted Sega to make the game like. Okaaaay.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
fans: "Hey, Sega, make the games play exactly like the Genesis games."
Sega: "We'll make a game that looks like the Genesis games but is easier and has worse physics!"
you: "You got what you asked for."
I seem to remember Sonic 4 being "classic fans getting what they asked for" too.
I watched a full walkthrough, too. The game doesn't look like it plays much like the Genesis games, so I wouldn't say it's what I asked for, but it's close enough to make me excited for the game. One guy I watched was very very bad at the Classic stages. He kept dying repeatedly. On Modern stages he breezed through with homing attacks.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
It'd be pretty damn hard to make a Sonic game easier then the classic games. I don't even think Sonic 3 and Knuckles has a Game Over screen.
The Xtortionist
Member
Sonic 1 was tough, as was Death Egg Zone in Sonic 2. Everything else from the Genesis era was easy-peasy.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Wait wait wait wait, Sonic fans are now complaining about the LACK of difficulty? Is that what they have come down to?
Because, besides Sonic 1, the other Genesis Sonic games were not even close to difficult. Sonic 3 is one of the easiest games I've ever played, and the only hard moments in Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles is losing patience with that awful Oil level and the even worse Pyramid level.
Lets not forget there hasn't been a single "mainline" Sonic game since then that has been remotely challenging.
So yeah, Sonic fans complaining about this being too easy are REALLY just looking for things to complain about. It honestly looks like they have spent so many years complaining about stupid shit, that when the game comes along that remedies most of their stupid complaints, they just need to make up even more.
Because, besides Sonic 1, the other Genesis Sonic games were not even close to difficult. Sonic 3 is one of the easiest games I've ever played, and the only hard moments in Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles is losing patience with that awful Oil level and the even worse Pyramid level.
Lets not forget there hasn't been a single "mainline" Sonic game since then that has been remotely challenging.
So yeah, Sonic fans complaining about this being too easy are REALLY just looking for things to complain about. It honestly looks like they have spent so many years complaining about stupid shit, that when the game comes along that remedies most of their stupid complaints, they just need to make up even more.
That's Sega's own damn fault. People gripe about bottomless pits because they're a lazy way to add difficulty, they discourage exploration, and the classics didn't rely on them. No one asked for Sonic to keep some rings upon getting hit, or to remove every possible crushing death and any moderately dangerous badniks.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Nothing like good ol' nostalgia and the promise of a good Sega game to make me spend $60 on what will amount to 5 or so hours of game time than spending it on Batman or Uncharted.
I know this isn't the first good Sega game in a long time, but I guess it's good as a time as any to say that as someone who looks back at the Dreamcast like Republicans look back at the Regan Era, I'm happy to see Sega sort of going back to their former glory.
I know this isn't the first good Sega game in a long time, but I guess it's good as a time as any to say that as someone who looks back at the Dreamcast like Republicans look back at the Regan Era, I'm happy to see Sega sort of going back to their former glory.
Bottomless pits just make for uninteresting level design. People don't complain about them because they add difficulty... because they don't add difficulty. You only fall into them if the camera spazzes out or the controls flake out or you get hit by something and get knocked into one or because Sonic is too fast and a pit comes up out of nowhere or you jump down one to see if it's another path.Sciz said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
RagnarokX said:
No it's your pretentious whining about everything under the sun without taking the realites of game development, marketing, and budget with coupled with your tendency to throw your dummies out the pram like a bunch of man children.
But not I'm not here to argue with you about it. I have my opinion and you are welcome to yours. I'd only ask if you feel the game isn't for you, rather than stink up this thread, take your moaning to sonic retro when you can all hold each other and sing carols while watching video of the latest "recreated genesis physics" tech demo that either looks like shit or releases half a level every two years.
The rest of us have a game to enjoy.
The Mana Legend said:
Kinda ironic by pointing out this, I seem like the very people I'm complaining about.
But my point still stands. From adventure onwards, sonic games were just as easy to complete as the original genesis titles (although I'd argue they had a suprising level of depth if you were willing to look for it) but they were hard to master, partly by less than ideal design decisions, partly because they to be replayed with different goals than the genesis titles (speed and ring collection vs exploration and score)
Generations seems to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and just looks easy as hell... I won't know till I have the game in my hands, but I just find the idea of the game proving no challenge at all a bit disapointing
Whatever..I'm stil hyped.
Synless said:
Loved Uncharted 1 and 2, but I feel suckered paying $60 for them. Both were short and sweet, but neither have crawled back into my console after the initial weekend play at each respective launch.
I will absolutely experience U3 for its story and presentation, but its a known quantity that could be experienced in a few months from now at a dramatically reduced cost. MP doesn't interest me, and I don't really enjoy the gunplay. I want to support Naughty Dog for the experience, but I'm just in it for the 7-8 hour campaign. A 2-day rental this time around would suffice, but I'd feel just as dirty doing so as I would blowing $60+.
Community Forum
Member
Darn, at this rate there's no chance of an OT2 to fix that horrible thread title.
What classic fans ask for: Classic level design, classic gameplay. It's not our fault that Sega isn't delivering. What part of wanting classic gameplay entails getting rid of crushing deaths and Tails being able to fly forever without getting tired, cuz I sure don't recall anyone asking for that. Smart level design isn't easy level design.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
RagnarokX said:
Sorry, it just sounds funny when you say, "You can't do this, unless you do this, or this, or this, or this, OR this, then you can"
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Stupid fucking post. Stop trying to stifle conversations with your broad generalizations and insulting hyperbole. He has every right to discuss the elements of Sonic games he doesn't like as you get to enjoy the game. Learn to deal with different opinions.
Actually I like what I see in the game. I think he's being way more negative than he thinks classic fans are being. My complaints are more constructive criticism. I see potential in what they've done with Classic Sonic here, they just need to take it a little further with the physics and level design.LeonSKennedy90 said:
As to the pit thing, you're misunderstanding. My point boils down to they don't add any challenge because you don't fall into them due to a lack of skill. You usually only fall into them due to a failing of the game's mechanics or an enemy knocks you into one.
Take a look at this if you want and tell me it looks too easy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=h8zMo3uBOYo&v=fjpj0PdJYY4#t=4m55s
8th level.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
Myself, I think I prefer the Classic Sonics. Sonic 1 was the very first game I played, and to this day I think S3&K is one of the greatest video games of them all, just incredibly well-crafted in pretty much all areas. Since then, I've been up and down on the series.
And no, I don't think the physics here are perfect, but watching the level of depth they gave some of the later levels of Classic Sonic here and the various challenges has me excited. Also, Modern Sonic looks really fun to me. Different from Classic Sonic, sure, but its a clear step up from Unleashed's constant boost hallways and narrow game design. I think a lot of care went into making this game, and although it aint perfect, maybe not GOTY, I think its gonna be another great Sonic game.
And no, I don't think the physics here are perfect, but watching the level of depth they gave some of the later levels of Classic Sonic here and the various challenges has me excited. Also, Modern Sonic looks really fun to me. Different from Classic Sonic, sure, but its a clear step up from Unleashed's constant boost hallways and narrow game design. I think a lot of care went into making this game, and although it aint perfect, maybe not GOTY, I think its gonna be another great Sonic game.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
LeonSKennedy90 said:
It's not converstation. It's whining. It's the same in every damn sonic thread regardless of the current tirle. There is a big difference of having a desenting opinion and entering every thread related to series just to tell people how bad the game will be because it doesn't emulate perfectly the old school games.
A 1:1 conversion of genesis physics and level design in a modern sonic game is NEVER going to happen, classic model or no classic model. It's about time people learnt to deal with it and move on.
This game is the biggest olive branch in over ten years and for some, it's still not enough.
But I've said my piece on the matter and I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to argue with anyone else on this issue. I have my view and I stand by it wholeheartedly but to defend it is just to derail the thread and I do not want that.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
Wow. You can change music in the levels?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgoaO5cOp2Y
Video with Emerald Hill music playing in Green Hill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgoaO5cOp2Y
Video with Emerald Hill music playing in Green Hill.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
RagnarokX said:
No, I actually like the difficulty. I look forward to improving my playthroughs of those levels.
Also, for the uncurling bit, couldn't the player just, ya know, hold down to stay in ball form?
I've always felt Sonic is at its best when it gives incentives for taking on the different routes. I don't appreciate the 'racing' game mentality the series often has(ie. taking an upper route will often net improved times...but that should not be the 'end all'). There should be more at stake with each route than pure time/score.
Ridding the game of bonus rounds for chaos emeralds is a really good start(always hated those), but I am hopeful many of these new optional challenges in Generations actually empower the player with a desire to fully explore all routes. I personally adore the way Sonic 1/2 used to create clear incentive to use the upper route to avoid more dangerous pitfalls that lie below(pits, longer underwater sections, etc...). Placing collectibles throughout stages to find on multiple attempts to promote replay perhaps? Red rings, chaos shards, whatever.
I again have not spent heavy time with the franchise since the early Genesis games(aside from the terrible DC Adventures), but this is a direction I am hopeful Generations moves in.
Ridding the game of bonus rounds for chaos emeralds is a really good start(always hated those), but I am hopeful many of these new optional challenges in Generations actually empower the player with a desire to fully explore all routes. I personally adore the way Sonic 1/2 used to create clear incentive to use the upper route to avoid more dangerous pitfalls that lie below(pits, longer underwater sections, etc...). Placing collectibles throughout stages to find on multiple attempts to promote replay perhaps? Red rings, chaos shards, whatever.
I again have not spent heavy time with the franchise since the early Genesis games(aside from the terrible DC Adventures), but this is a direction I am hopeful Generations moves in.
The Xtortionist
Member
Yep, and there are more songs than you can shake a stick at.
also
Classic Sonic works for me because it seems to adhere to the main pillars of Genesis gameplay (emphasize platforming over speed, speed as a reward, tiered level design, etc...) even if the physics aren't 100% faithful. As for the levels being grander in scale and Sonic moving faster...well, this is a current-gen game. Gotta take advantage of that tech. I don't want to pay $50 for something like Mega Man 9.
This game makes rolling aversive because you slow down if you hold down to roll, even on a slope. It's faster to run. So holding down doesn't really become something you do very much in this game, especially since you can instant spindash with 1 button. I bet we classic fans asked for that, too.LeonSKennedy90 said:
Actually I'd say that's a good thing.Seik said:
Super Sonic music is usually too repetative and gets old fast. Hearing it in every level for most of the level? Ugh.