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Sonic Generations |OT| What Sonic can learn from Sonic

L

LeonSKennedy90

Banned
RagnarokX said:
This game makes rolling aversive because you slow down if you hold down to roll, even on a slope. It's faster to run. So holding down doesn't really become something you do very much in this game, especially since you can instant spindash with 1 button. I bet we classic fans asked for that, too.
Click to expand...

Still...seems like a pretty easy change to accomedate for. "Ok, gotta spindash through here, need to hold down to stay in ball form". Doesn't really seem like that big of a deal here >_>
 
zeioIIDX

zeioIIDX

Member
I'm soooo stoked for Sonic Generations especially after hearing the soundtrack. So much nostalgia and a lot of the remixes are awesome as hell! I just hope the classic Sonic physics aren't too wonky, I only played the original demo they had a while ago on PS3 before it expired.
 
K

Klaymator14

Member
I think Sega said they wanted to keep it easy to play, but hard to master, and just going off the demo, I think it's a pretty good indication of that philosophy. Obviously getting the fastest time or highest score isn't gonna be for everyone, I feel like this is a pretty good approach, I enjoy mastering the levels as best as possible for the fastest time. Anyhow, a little more challenge would be nice, but I'm fine for how it is currently
 
C

CurseoftheGods

Banned
Seik said:
The sad thing I noticed in this video is that the music didn't changed when Sonic
transformed
.
Click to expand...

There is a theme for that. It's the Sonic 4 title theme if you choose to go with the original music in the levels.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
LeonSKennedy90 said:
Still...seems like a pretty easy change to accomedate for. "Ok, gotta spindash through here, need to hold down to stay in ball form". Doesn't really seem like that big of a deal here >_>
Click to expand...
It shouldn't slow you down, period, that's the problem, not having to hold down. You had to hold down if you wanted to stay curled going off ledges in the classic games too. It's not just the uncurling, that's a symptom of the real problem of rolling slowing you down. He did a spindash; he should pick up speed down the slope and stay in a ball until he stops or jumps.

I guess the point is that you shouldnt have to accommodate for it, it should work the way it's supposed to.
 
T

TheCongressman1

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
It's not converstation. It's whining. It's the same in every damn sonic thread regardless of the current tirle. There is a big difference of having a desenting opinion and entering every thread related to series just to tell people how bad the game will be because it doesn't emulate perfectly the old school games.
Click to expand...

It is discussion. You are on a forum. Don't like it? Leave. He's given examples and backed up his opinion. He is not whining.

You're mighty high on your horse to say what is and isn't important to discuss. People make light of some arguments from time to time due to the manner they were presented, but all points are valid as long as they are presented in a civilized manner. We are consumers. We have every right to say what I do and don't like about a product. Just because you don't think someone's opinion is a big deal, does not give you the right to step on someone.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
A 1:1 conversion of genesis physics and level design in a modern sonic game is NEVER going to happen, classic model or no classic model. It's about time people learnt to deal with it and move on.
Click to expand...

Again, who are you to say? The only thing holding it back is Sega's current stance on the series. It definitely could happen with enough customer interest, or company change of heart.


RagnarokX said:
It's not just the uncurling, that's a symptom of the real problem of rolling slowing you down. He did a spindash; he should pick up speed down the slope and stay in a ball until he stops or jumps.

I guess the point is that you shouldnt have to accommodate for it, it should work the way it's supposed to.
Click to expand...

Exactly. These things shouldn't be an issue in the first place.
 
L

LeonSKennedy90

Banned
RagnarokX said:
It shouldn't slow you down, period, that's the problem, not having to hold down. You had to hold down if you wanted to stay curled going off ledges in the classic games too. It's not just the uncurling, that's a symptom of the real problem of rolling slowing you down. He did a spindash; he should pick up speed down the slope and stay in a ball until he stops or jumps.

I guess the point is that you shouldnt have to accommodate for it, it should work the way it's supposed to.
Click to expand...

I agree, its not perfect(contrary to popular belief neither were the physics in the Genesis games). Its not exactly the end of the world either though, in the context of what the game offers.
 
Q

qq more

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
*words words words words*
Click to expand...

God fucking dammit, ThoughtsOfSpeaking.

And for the record, I don't care about 2D physics being 100% accurate to the classics, just as long as they are consistent and very good. (Example: NOT Sonic 4)
 
S

Sciz

Member
TheCongressman1 said:
At this point, I'd say you're doing a good job of earning your junior status.
Click to expand...
This is pretty poor form, no matter what you think of the other side of the argument. Particularly coming from someone who isn't that far past losing his own junior tag.
 
R

RobbieNick

Junior Member
SHOTEH FOCK OP said:
Darn, at this rate there's no chance of an OT2 to fix that horrible thread title.
Click to expand...

It;s poking fun of IGN. It was also suggested by a different poster and I happened to like it. Also, I don't see the point of an OT2 over something so superficial as a thread title.
 
S

SuperAngelo64

Banned
Sonic fans want to hate Sonic games. Ever since Sega lost the 'console wars' it's like they're all very self-hating and twisted.

I mean the fact that Generations is getting any praise at all is miraculous.
 
L

LeonSKennedy90

Banned
TheCongressman1 said:
I think if someone wanted to hate Sonic games, they wouldn't be here telling people what they want to see in future titles.
Click to expand...

This is just to throw off the obvious amounts of hatred they want to spew.

Dat Deep Troll /chrishu
 
Q

qq more

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
Sonic fans want to hate Sonic games. Ever since Sega lost the 'console wars' it's like they're all very self-hating and twisted.

I mean the fact that Generations is getting any praise at all is miraculous.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. And somehow, Colors got a lot of praise despite it being on a non-Sega console.



Seriously, what?
 
A

AXavierB

Neo Member
I do think it's disappointing that Sonic Team didn't utilize the original Genesis physics, or at least something very close.

I'm not a classic fanboy at all. My first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure, and it wasn't until much later that I played any of the previous ones. However, Generations is (partially) selling itself on the return of classic Sonic gameplay. I think making the physics as close to the Genesis games as possible would be the right thing to do, because they'd be keeping their implicit promise.

That, and it's not even a difficult thing to do. I feel that if fangame programmers can nail the physics, then Sonic Team, with all their resources, should have no problem. What's stopping them? It wouldn't be an issue if they made it clear that a return to classic gameplay wasn't what they were going for, but that's exactly what they led people to believe.

I'm still excited for the game and I ordered it recently. I'm just disappointed that Sonic Team didn't pay closer attention to detail.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
AXavierB said:
I do think it's disappointing that Sonic Team didn't utilize the original Genesis physics, or at least something very close.

I'm not a classic fanboy at all. My first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure, and it wasn't until much later that I played any of the previous ones. However, Generations is (partially) selling itself on the return of classic Sonic gameplay. I think making the physics as close to the Genesis games as possible would be the right thing to do, because they'd be keeping their implicit promise.

That, and it's not even a difficult thing to do. I feel that if fangame programmers can nail the physics, then Sonic Team, with all their resources, should have no problem. What's stopping them? It wouldn't be an issue if they made it clear that a return to classic gameplay wasn't what they were going for, but that's exactly what they led people to believe.

I'm still excited for the game and I ordered it recently. I'm just disappointed that Sonic Team didn't pay closer attention to detail.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtDl-0B5U-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-oHyHxZBLA&feature=related
eh it's not much different than this.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
I was just reminded of a small demo I wanted to make in regards to rolling and it's intended utility. I popped in Sonic Mega Collection to make a short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hTCYRpLF_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEkmRJjWlcE

You get more speed from rolling and it allows you to reach places you couldn't otherwise. The way rolling works in games like Rush, Sonic 4, and Sonic Generations rolling instead makes you slow down, so there is very little reason to roll unless you need to break a wall or slide under a gap like Modern Sonic. Or in the case of Generations alone to spam the instant spin dash button like the boost button. I think it dulls the gameplay a bit.

When making the Sonic Generations video Sonic kept getting stuck at the bottom of the loop, and in the final video he wouldn't roll even though I pressed down, which is why I had to go back up and do it again.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
RagnarokX said:
I was just reminded of a small demo I wanted to make in regards to rolling and it's intended utility. I popped in Sonic Mega Collection to make a short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hTCYRpLF_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEkmRJjWlcE

You get more speed from rolling and it allows you to reach places you couldn't otherwise. The way rolling works in games like Rush, Sonic 4, and Sonic Generations rolling instead makes you slow down, so there is very little reason to roll unless you need to break a wall or slide under a gap like Modern Sonic. Or in the case of Generations alone to spam the instant spin dash button like the boost button. I think it dulls the gameplay a bit.

When making the Sonic Generations video Sonic kept getting stuck at the bottom of the loop, and in the final video he wouldn't roll even though I pressed down, which is why I had to go back up and do it again.
Click to expand...

There is a "skill" you buy that fixes that. Another skill also gives you the ability to stop properly
 
Q

qq more

Member
The Xtortionist said:
Regular controls feel fine to me, based on the demo.

Like qq more said, this ain't nothing compared to Secret Rings.
Click to expand...
To be fair, he didn't really say it's unplayable (the whole Secret Rings thing was just a joke, even though it's true). I have to agree with him that having to buy better controls is ridiculous. Make them available from the start!
 
T

Throavium

Member
RagnarokX said:
I was just reminded of a small demo I wanted to make in regards to rolling and it's intended utility. I popped in Sonic Mega Collection to make a short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hTCYRpLF_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEkmRJjWlcE

You get more speed from rolling and it allows you to reach places you couldn't otherwise. The way rolling works in games like Rush, Sonic 4, and Sonic Generations rolling instead makes you slow down, so there is very little reason to roll unless you need to break a wall or slide under a gap like Modern Sonic. Or in the case of Generations alone to spam the instant spin dash button like the boost button. I think it dulls the gameplay a bit.

When making the Sonic Generations video Sonic kept getting stuck at the bottom of the loop, and in the final video he wouldn't roll even though I pressed down, which is why I had to go back up and do it again.
Click to expand...
Well done.
 
T

TimmiT

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
Sonic fans want to hate Sonic games. Ever since Sega lost the 'console wars' it's like they're all very self-hating and twisted.

I mean the fact that Generations is getting any praise at all is miraculous.
Click to expand...
Maybe Generations is being praised because it looks like a good game.
HMprR.gif

This may have been the reason Colours got praised as well.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Mistle said:
Wait, instant spindash?

That doesnt sound good..
Click to expand...
Instead of having to stop, hold down, and rev the jump button you can just hold down the instant spin dash button for a second. You can be in a full speed run and holding the button will stop you dead instantly before rocketing you off at crazy speeds. Works like a boost button, easily abused.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
No it's your pretentious whining about everything under the sun without taking the realites of game development, marketing, and budget with coupled with your tendency to throw your dummies out the pram like a bunch of man children.

But not I'm not here to argue with you about it. I have my opinion and you are welcome to yours. I'd only ask if you feel the game isn't for you, rather than stink up this thread, take your moaning to sonic retro when you can all hold each other and sing carols while watching video of the latest "recreated genesis physics" tech demo that either looks like shit or releases half a level every two years.

The rest of us have a game to enjoy.




Kinda ironic by pointing out this, I seem like the very people I'm complaining about.

But my point still stands. From adventure onwards, sonic games were just as easy to complete as the original genesis titles (although I'd argue they had a suprising level of depth if you were willing to look for it) but they were hard to master, partly by less than ideal design decisions, partly because they to be replayed with different goals than the genesis titles (speed and ring collection vs exploration and score)

Generations seems to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and just looks easy as hell... I won't know till I have the game in my hands, but I just find the idea of the game proving no challenge at all a bit disapointing

Whatever..I'm stil hyped.
Click to expand...


Regardless, everyone will still have fun with the game, BUT, Sonic really shouldnt slow down after rolling...no matter the circumstances. Its not about whining about things being 1 to 1 with the Genesis titles, its just that certain moves dont work the way they should in the game.

Just like in a Mario game, you should pick up a little speed by bouncing off an enemy while running, or travel faster down a hill by pressing down to slide, in a Sonic title you should pick up speed when rolling down an incline.

As far as difficulty goes, I dont think the game will be all that easy post Chemical Plant Zone, and the missions certainly look like they offer a challenge.
 
S

SuperAngelo64

Banned
Question, but I'm not sure if it's a SPOILER or not.

I keep seeing a bunch of song tracks on YouTube labelled
"Target"
and they are arrangements of some of my favorite tracks from the
Advance series
.

Where are these in the game?
 
A

Azure Dream

Member
JonCha said:
Er, thread title update with IGN? The duty of the creator is to be on top of this.
Click to expand...

It's too late for changes they make to reflect in the thread title that people see on the topic list, a mod will have to be asked to change that.
 
D

DICKS AHOY

Banned
SuperAngelo64 said:
Question, but I'm not sure if it's a SPOILER or not.

I keep seeing a bunch of song tracks on YouTube labelled
"Target"
and they are arrangements of some of my favorite tracks from the
Advance series
.

Where are these in the game?
Click to expand...
Side-missions as Gamma where you shoot-up the place in each zone
I hope

Never entirely got where the whole idea Sonic fans are being too pedantic with complaints considering before last year I don't think they'd been a single major Sonic game for nearly a decade that averaged higher than the mid 60's, with the majority usually being well into shovelware territory. Shouldn't that show there's been some legitimate basis for fans to frequently feel screwed over by SEGA?

Not that it makes everything lodged against Generations a legitimate complaint (why would it of been the first Sonic game I've preordered in a decade if I didn't think it was going to be good?), but there do seem to be a few people who're getting downright weird and indignant over the idea that there's still people who feel there are things this game could improve upon. I think most people completely deadset without any real justification on hating the game pissed off from the discussions on this game long ago anyways.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Scullibundo said:
Not to mention no music to go with it. Lame.
Click to expand...
Isn't one of the advantages with playing as regular Sonic in 2 and 3 that you get to hear the good music instead of that loop over and over again?
 
J

JonCha

Member
Kulock said:
It's too late for changes they make to reflect in the thread title that people see on the topic list, a mod will have to be asked to change that.
Click to expand...

Ah, yeah. My bad. In that case, get on it mod(s)!
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Ty4on said:
Isn't one of the advantages with playing as regular Sonic in 2 and 3 that you get to hear the good music instead of that loop over and over again?
Click to expand...
Sonic 2 SS > other sonic game super themes.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Diablohead said:
Sonic 2 SS > other sonic game super themes.
Click to expand...
Sonic 3's was pretty good, but like with the title music Sonic & Knuckles had to destroy it.

Despite the spoiler tags, I think anyone with a brain now knows SS is playable in Generations ^^ I'll try to keep spoilers at a minimum before I get it.
 
C

Chao

Member
Ty4on said:
Sonic 3's was pretty good, but like with the title music Sonic & Knuckles had to destroy it.

Despite the spoiler tags, I think anyone with a brain now knows SS is playable in Generations ^^ I'll try to keep spoilers at a minimum before I get it.
Click to expand...
Funny thing, I thought Sonic 3 was the worst of all classic super sonic themes, it's like a ten seconds loop with the most repetitive music ever.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sciz said:
That's Sega's own damn fault. People gripe about bottomless pits because they're a lazy way to add difficulty, they discourage exploration, and the classics didn't rely on them. No one asked for Sonic to keep some rings upon getting hit, or to remove every possible crushing death and any moderately dangerous badniks.
Click to expand...

That's not something new though, even back in Sonic Triple Trouble and Sonic Blast you would keep some of your rings when hit.

Mistle said:
Wait, instant spindash?

That doesnt sound good..
Click to expand...

It actually works surprisingly well.

Will get this once it drops in price. And after I'm done with Uncharted 3.
 
.la1n

.la1n

Member
Another year passes and Sonic Team churns out another turd. Speaking of which, there non crap Sonic CD port - when is that coming out?
 
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