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Sonic Generations |OT| What Sonic can learn from Sonic

S

ShadiWulf

Member
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
RobbieNick said:
We're already at the part of the thread where we are talking about the classic games? "Okay.

Sonic 2 > Sonic 3&K > Sonic 1
Click to expand...

Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 > Sonic 3&Knuckles > Sonic & Knuckles (standalone) > Sonic 3 (standalone) > Sonic CD
 
T

Teknoman

Member
.la1n said:
I am sorry if I hit a nerve. It is a turd to me. Colors was also pretty much the same. I don't know if it's disillusioned fans or what. These games have very little polish, the physics are universally terrible and it seems they have become artistically bankrupt.

I call it like I see, I don't ask everyone to agree with me - in fact I do not expect the majority to. This is a forum, a gaming forum and I will give my opinion. If you have played the entirety of the game I'd like to hear yours as well. It's what we are all here for.
Click to expand...

No nerves hit here, but to call it a turd is a little much. You might not like the game, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but they really put alot of work into Generations, and something that is a turd should have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, completely unplayable, and just really bad looking from all viewpoints.

Sure the classic Sonic physics arent there for the Classic Sonic gameplay sections of the game, but they arent some unplayable, stiff, broken mess. Modern Sonic isnt some bland, single straightaway boost fest, and you arent inundated with gameplay elements or characters that no one wants.

Honestly I havent played the entire game yet, only the most recent demo, and watched gameplay videos from the various stages...but I know its no turd. Also the whole 30FPS on consoles because of the Hedgehog Engine doesnt hurt the feeling of speed in that you dont have to have a game play at 60 to get that sensation. Case in point: Vanquish.
 
A

Azure J

Member
spindashing said:
Labyrinth Zone is what I hate. All water stages can die.
Click to expand...

Hydrocity Zone.

SMH, wrong about chicken and wrong about level design too. :lol

Oh, almost forgot about list wars:

Sonic 3+K > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD = Sonic & Knuckles standalone = Sonic 3 standalone > Sonic 2
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
If you compare the graphics of Sonic 3 to Sonic 1 and 2, the latter two have a 'cleaner' look to them IMO.
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Even today, I still think Sonic 1 is the best looking game. It had a clean look to it and Green Hill Zone looked better than any other zone in any other Sonic. I feel the sequels were rushed out in comparison, at least in the art department.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
AzureJericho said:
Hydrocity Zone.

SMH, wrong about chicken and wrong about level design too. :lol
Click to expand...

Hydrocity is possibly the single most overrated level in any of the three classic games. Boring level, mediocre music. Why GAF loves that level so much is completely beyond me.
 
T

TheCongressman1

Member
Throavium said:
I can't believe people are bringing up the tired ass Sonic sprite debate. The shit literally came out of nowhere.
Click to expand...

Well guys, lets just stop posting because every topic brought up seems to offend someone.

Music, again?

Sprites, again?

Sonic, again? Really? That's so last decade.


Anyway, I like S3's sprite, but his hand placement is a little strange. I like how clean 1 and 2's look, but his c shaped arms bother me. It's always the hands for some reason... Even on the 3D models, Sonic's hands always look odd.
 
S

Seven Force

Banned
Combichristoffersen said:
Hydrocity is possibly the single most overrated level in any of the three classic games. Boring level, mediocre music. Why GAF loves that level so much is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
I always thought Icecap was pretty overrated myself.

Besides, all the cool people know Flying Battery and Lava Reef is where it's at.

Edit: Oh, and: Sonic 3&K > Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic 1 > Sonic 3 > Sonic 2 >Sonic CD.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic 3 > Sonic 2 > Sonic CD(spindash so weird) > Sonic

I've always wondered if Oshima's team & Yasuhara's team came up with their different implementations of spin dash completely from scratch, or whether CD's was influenced by sonic 2's release.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lucky Number Seven Force said:
I always thought Icecap was pretty overrated myself.

Besides, all the cool people know Flying Battery and Lava Reef is where it's at.
Click to expand...

Lava Reef act 1 is godly. Act 2 is kinda eh, until you get to the end and Shit Hits the Fan. Flying Battery is sweet. Ice Cap, as a zone, is OK I guess, but dat music!
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
Hydrocity is possibly the single most overrated level in any of the three classic games. Boring level, mediocre music. Why GAF loves that level so much is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...

Act 2 music, all i'm saying.

I think its because Hydrocity had music closer to the classic new jack swing feel of Sonic 1/ CD JP/EU.
 
S

Seven Force

Banned
Combichristoffersen said:
Lava Reef act 1 is godly. Act 2 is kinda eh, until you get to the end and Shit Hits the Fan. Flying Battery is sweet. Ice Cap, as a zone, is OK I guess, but dat music!
Click to expand...
Act 1 of Lava Reef is one of my favorite levels in the series, really. So many ways to go through it.
 
T

Throavium

Member
TheCongressman1 said:
Well guys, lets just stop posting because every topic brought up seems to offend someone.

Music, again?

Sprites, again?

Sonic, again? Really? That's so last decade.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you got me there. Who am I to not expect these kind of debates in any Sonic thread? It's inevitable really.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
TheCongressman1 said:
Hydrocity, Carnival Night, and Launch Base had the best design of the entire game.
Click to expand...

Launch Base is pretty cool in that there's so many different routes through the acts, and Carnival Night is pretty good, maybe except for that damn barrel. Hydrocity is just really, really bland and boring IMO. Not as awful as Marble Garden or Sandopolis, but still nothing special.
 
T

TheCongressman1

Member
I'm just saying, what should we talk about if all these topics have been driven into the ground? It doesn't make sense to have a Sonic thread if we're not going to discuss elements of the game.

Edit'd.
 
T

Throavium

Member
TheCongressman1 said:
I'm just saying, what should we talk about if all these topics have been driven into the ground? It doesn't make sense to have a Sonic thread if we're not going to discuss elements of the game.
Click to expand...
Nah, I totally get you. I was saying that you were right.
 
T

TheCongressman1

Member
Throavium said:
Nah, I totally get you. I was saying that you were right.
Click to expand...

I know you got it, I just felt the need to elaborate. I didn't think I was clear enough for everyone because there are a lot of people that feel the way you did.

Edit: I went ahead and took your quote out. I didn't really need it in there in the first place.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Hydrocity was nice for me because it took all the awful aspects of water levels and just threw them away.

Slow walking/Swimming: Nope, lets adds lots of boosts everywhere, Sonic can run on water, half the zone is above water, and many of the water sections are just middle sections of the level where Sonic has enough momentum to just blitz through anyway.

Air Management: Bubble shield to the rescue! The bouncy side-effect of the shield also helped you maintain momentum under the water

Change of pace from the rest of the game: Nope! Hydrocity is just like any other Sonic level, except it takes place underwater (for half the time)!

Combine that with good music and a unique atmosphere (I always thought it was in a giant church lol), and it's a great level.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
^^^^ Awww yeah, bubble shield! Loved just stomping those pesky robots in Hydrocity(or laughing at them trying to shoot me)! The shields really put S3 above 1, 2 and CD in my eyes.

Combichristoffersen said:
Hydrocity is possibly the single most overrated level in any of the three classic games. Boring level, mediocre music. Why GAF loves that level so much is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Dat 37 mark in both songs, personally think act 2 is some of the best music on the Genesis. The levels also had great horizontal momentum, yet weren't all that hard to control. Oh and running on water :D

For the classics: Sonic 3&K -> Sonic 3 -> Sonic CD = Sonic 2 -> Sonic 1

Sonic 3 just felt so much more complete and modern. With Sonic CD I just really liked the platforming, boss battles, special stages and music. Hunting for Eggman's machines in past was quite fun and I'm probably the only person except the level designer who doesn't hate Wacky Workbench :p
Oh yeah, and I like saving my game.
 
.la1n

.la1n

Member
Teknoman said:
No nerves hit here, but to call it a turd is a little much. You might not like the game, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but they really put alot of work into Generations, and something that is a turd should have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, completely unplayable, and just really bad looking from all viewpoints.

Sure the classic Sonic physics arent there for the Classic Sonic gameplay sections of the game, but they arent some unplayable, stiff, broken mess. Modern Sonic isnt some bland, single straightaway boost fest, and you arent inundated with gameplay elements or characters that no one wants.

Honestly I havent played the entire game yet, only the most recent demo, and watched gameplay videos from the various stages...but I know its no turd. Also the whole 30FPS on consoles because of the Hedgehog Engine doesnt hurt the feeling of speed in that you dont have to have a game play at 60 to get that sensation. Case in point: Vanquish.
Click to expand...


Modern Sonic is not a bland boost fest, like I said it's the result of building on a concept started when Sonic was even first brought to 3D and this is their best attempt yet, but it is only that - an attempt not a success.

Classic Sonic is really where my problem lies, they should have spent some more time polishing every single one of his levels up. It almost seems as though he was an after thought or something stuck in there to bring in old school fans.

Your mileage may vary and I am interested to see how the rest of GAF takes to it after getting deeper into it.
 
S

spindashing

Banned
AzureJericho said:
Hydrocity Zone.

SMH, wrong about chicken and wrong about level design too. :lol

Oh, almost forgot about list wars:

Sonic 3+K > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD = Sonic & Knuckles standalone = Sonic 3 standalone > Sonic 2
Click to expand...
Hydrocity has OK music, but I don't really like that stage either. There's far much more great stages in Sonic 3. #Realtalk

List wars?
Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 and Knuckles > Sonic 1. I haven't played Sonic CD enough to judge it.

I know Sonic 2 like the back of my hand. Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles is just so beautiful. Sonic 1, while more simplistic in design in comparison to the others, does feature some good ol' platforming.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
I'll jump in too:

Sonic 3/Knuckles > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD > Sonic 2.

All are great games, but for some reason I just like Sonic 1 more than 2. CD has more to do with liking the music, environment art, and Metal Sonic more than anything. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was just far to amazing to be placed anywhere but first. Music, art style, bosses, everything flowed together nicely.
 
S

See You Next Wednesday

Banned
.la1n said:
Having played the game in it's entirety I feel like I am entitled to an opinion here. The 3D sections are okay, it's an improvement on the same Colors, Unleashed formula they have been using forever. I imagine it's as close as Sonic Team will EVER get to bringing Sonic to 3D and they have still failed miserably compared to Nintendo's transition of it's mascots. The 2D sections are the usual mess, the camera is a constant annoyance, frame rate is unacceptable considering what little the game is doing and for god sake will they just hire someone who can make a proper physics engine already?

Can you have fun with this game? Of course you can - I can have fun with Sonic 4 Episode 1 but does that mean I should just overlook the glaring issues? No.
Click to expand...

"Unleashed formula they have been using forever"
What? They did 2 games using it since 2008.

I honestly having been coming to this thread frequently, but I have never heard anyone complaining about the 2D sections & about the camera in general... ever.
And unless there has been some new light of information, the frame rate was rock steady from what I seen.

Your little jab at Sega with mentioning Nintendo also seem fanboy-ish.
I personally thought the Mario Galaxy games were offensively easy & simple to the point I felt embarrassed playing the game as a grown adult.
At least with Sonic Unleashed, there was a legitimate difficulty & learning curve.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Teknoman said:
I'll jump in too:

Sonic 3/Knuckles > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD > Sonic 2.

All are great games, but for some reason I just like Sonic 1 more than 2. CD has more to do with liking the music, environment art, and Metal Sonic more than anything. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was just far to amazing to be placed anywhere but first. Music, art style, bosses, everything flowed together nicely.
Click to expand...
Man, it's amazing how everyone's opinions differ so much on these games.

For me, Sonic 2 is far and away my favorite in the series. It is the perfect Sonic game, as far as I'm concerned. Sonic CD is dead last, by comparison, with its jumbled level design and constant slowdown.

I imagine it's as close as Sonic Team will EVER get to bringing Sonic to 3D and they have still failed miserably compared to Nintendo's transition of it's mascots.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Mario was inherently the easier character to adapt into 3D. The slower pace of the games allows them to function well within an open environment. As well as Mario translated into 3D, Nintendo never managed to fully capture the feeling of playing 2D Mario in 3D. People are asking Sega to do this with Sonic, but even Nintendo hasn't managed that with their much slower character.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Throavium said:
Gameinformer - 6.75/10
Click to expand...

Keep getting an error. Actually that seems to be happening for all GI links but that might be me.

EDIT: Works now...apparently they drop kicked it because of the later levels from Sonic Heroes, 06, and Colors. Says its hard to stay in a straight line with modern Sonic.
 
A

andymcc

Banned
Teknoman said:
Keep getting an error. Actually that seems to be happening for all GI links but that might be me.
Click to expand...

it's definitely there. didn't really bother reading it as i don't really pay attention to reviews.


Sir_Crocodile said:
Huh, so what I took from that was "90's stages good in 2d & 3d, 00's stages terrible in both".

What's the ratio between 90's and 00's stages in this game?
Click to expand...

3 stages are taken from 2D stages (i think), the rest are SA and up.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
"Playing as modern 3D Sonic presents the same steady drop in fun. Speeding across double helix pipes and dodging chemical geysers in Chemical Plant makes for some of the best 3D Sonic Adventure-style action the series has seen, but things go south when you break into the last-gen titles. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Heroes didn’t thrill me, and revisiting reworked versions only serves to remind me of how uninspired they are. Legacy issues, like wonky platforming and poorly communicated pitfalls, plague these later levels.

The last half of the game serves only to remind you of how far the series has fallen from its original form. I felt smothered by Sonic Team’s insistence on shoehorning recent Sonic games, no matter how awful, into the 20-year timeline. Why would Sega pass up full level tributes to Sonic 3 or Sonic CD in favor of a remixed version of a stage from Sonic Colors, which released only a year ago?"


As for the stage spread, each stage has a 2d and 2.5d/3d version, but they didnt like the layouts of the stages from Sonic Heroes going forward.

For reference they gave Colors a 7.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
Huh

Maybe I should wait till bargain bin
Click to expand...

This is the stage layout:

Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Sky Sanctuary
Speed Highway
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Crisis City
Rooftop Run
Planet Wisp

Each has a 2D classic version and a 2.5/3D modern version. I guess they're driving home the point that the majority of the later half of the game are based in city style stages...though I have no idea how Planet Wisp could be called uninspired.
 
M

Mindman

Member
Teknoman said:
No nerves hit here, but to call it a turd is a little much. You might not like the game, and of course you're entitled to your opinion, but they really put alot of work into Generations, and something that is a turd should have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, completely unplayable, and just really bad looking from all viewpoints.

Sure the classic Sonic physics arent there for the Classic Sonic gameplay sections of the game, but they arent some unplayable, stiff, broken mess. Modern Sonic isnt some bland, single straightaway boost fest, and you arent inundated with gameplay elements or characters that no one wants.

Honestly I havent played the entire game yet, only the most recent demo, and watched gameplay videos from the various stages...but I know its no turd. Also the whole 30FPS on consoles because of the Hedgehog Engine doesnt hurt the feeling of speed in that you dont have to have a game play at 60 to get that sensation. Case in point: Vanquish.
Click to expand...

He has his opinion. His opinion is crap.
 
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