B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
They gave Deadly Premonition 10/10, fuck yeah there invalid.DR2K said:
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SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven
- Thread starter WillyFive
- Start date
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
It's a Destructoid score, It's already spoiled.claviertekky said:
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Phoenix Fang said:
Hardly. Seems you've been hanging out in one too many Sonic fanfiction forums.
Mama Robotnik
Member
(._.) said:
No. It is a joke. It is a joke. It is a joke.
It is a joke?
It is a joke.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Guys....its...its.....decent! :lol(._.) said:
Itchy//Tasty
Member
Here's my theory on the five types of Sonic game. Instead of lumping the entire checkered legacy of Sonic together, it helps me to divide them into types like this to better rationalise and understand every direction Sega have taken their mascot in. This is just my perspective, feel free to sling mud or whatever.
TYPE 1: Retro 2D Sonic games. The originals. The classics. The ones we all love.
- Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic 1 (GG/MS), Sonic 2 (GG/MS), Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble. Knuckles Chaotix is the divisive one that may or may not go here depending on your opinion, but probably not. It's design could put Chaotix as Sega's earliest crack at TYPE 2.
TYPE 2: Modernised 2D Sonic games. They're 2D, yep, but they couldn't be more different. Inspired by the style of the 3D games, they include the same sort of attitude and art style, but usually with better results due to Sonic just plain being BETTER in 2D, even if it's modernised. Sonic speeds through rollercoaster levels with little obstacles/platforming, often doing tricks and grinds. Unleashed and Colours sparingly use 3D in levels, betraying the 2D but retaining the gameplay ethic.
Unleashed is the real oddball here, as it has hub levels, Werehog levels, bosses and Tornado levels in addition to the Sonic Day levels, but essentially it could be described as being Sonic Rush with just more gameplay types and a much bigger scale.
- Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours, Sonic Colours (DS).
TYPE 3: Those caught in the middle of Type 1 and 2. The middle children. Neither completely retro nor completely modernised, they serve both equally. Usually retro-style in basic gameplay or looks, but endowed with a hint of modernisation in the art style or the design that keeps them from being considered as truly 'just like the oldies'. Two pretty lovely games that bring both sensibilities together, no matter how much Sega wants you to believe they are TYPE 1.
- Sonic Advance, Sonic 4: Episode 1.
TYPE 4: The failed 3D Sonics. Sega's constant attempts foiled by bad design, unfinished development, terrible understanding of their demographic, ridiculous gimmicks, RAWK music, multiple Sonic friends, bats with tits and the obsessive intent to turn Sonic into something he's not. A promising start to these games led quickly to a very steep decline in quality.
- Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic and the Oh God no please make it stop! 2006, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight.
TYPE 5: The spin-offs. The minigames. An eclectic collection starting with the humble Sonic Spinball stretching all the way to the recent All-Stars Racing, this is basically everything else.
- Sonic Spinball, Robotnik's MBM, Sonic 3D, Sonic R, Sonic Jam, Sonic Shuffle, Mario and Sonic both games, All-Stars Racing, Sega Superstars (Eyetoy), Superstars Tennis, Sonic Riders, Zero Gravity and Free Riders.
Looking at this template helped me realised that TYPE 1 may never be attained or added upon ever again. Type 2 is something we can accept as an alternative if you like 'em enough, but it's down to the individual. TYPE 3 are rare breeds and simply the best Sonic games we'll play in this day and age, mainly because Sega aren't the same company they were in the past and this is (seemingly for now) the best they can do.
In conclusion, personally I'm really looking forward to this Wednesday (I'm in the UK) purely because if TYPE 1 can truly no longer be attained, I'd rather have a TYPE 3 game any day of the week than the alternatives. Bring on Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Let it stand on it's own merits rather than be judged on all this horrible stigma it doesn't really rightly deserve.
TYPE 1: Retro 2D Sonic games. The originals. The classics. The ones we all love.
- Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic 1 (GG/MS), Sonic 2 (GG/MS), Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble. Knuckles Chaotix is the divisive one that may or may not go here depending on your opinion, but probably not. It's design could put Chaotix as Sega's earliest crack at TYPE 2.
TYPE 2: Modernised 2D Sonic games. They're 2D, yep, but they couldn't be more different. Inspired by the style of the 3D games, they include the same sort of attitude and art style, but usually with better results due to Sonic just plain being BETTER in 2D, even if it's modernised. Sonic speeds through rollercoaster levels with little obstacles/platforming, often doing tricks and grinds. Unleashed and Colours sparingly use 3D in levels, betraying the 2D but retaining the gameplay ethic.
Unleashed is the real oddball here, as it has hub levels, Werehog levels, bosses and Tornado levels in addition to the Sonic Day levels, but essentially it could be described as being Sonic Rush with just more gameplay types and a much bigger scale.
- Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours, Sonic Colours (DS).
TYPE 3: Those caught in the middle of Type 1 and 2. The middle children. Neither completely retro nor completely modernised, they serve both equally. Usually retro-style in basic gameplay or looks, but endowed with a hint of modernisation in the art style or the design that keeps them from being considered as truly 'just like the oldies'. Two pretty lovely games that bring both sensibilities together, no matter how much Sega wants you to believe they are TYPE 1.
- Sonic Advance, Sonic 4: Episode 1.
TYPE 4: The failed 3D Sonics. Sega's constant attempts foiled by bad design, unfinished development, terrible understanding of their demographic, ridiculous gimmicks, RAWK music, multiple Sonic friends, bats with tits and the obsessive intent to turn Sonic into something he's not. A promising start to these games led quickly to a very steep decline in quality.
- Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic and the Oh God no please make it stop! 2006, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight.
TYPE 5: The spin-offs. The minigames. An eclectic collection starting with the humble Sonic Spinball stretching all the way to the recent All-Stars Racing, this is basically everything else.
- Sonic Spinball, Robotnik's MBM, Sonic 3D, Sonic R, Sonic Jam, Sonic Shuffle, Mario and Sonic both games, All-Stars Racing, Sega Superstars (Eyetoy), Superstars Tennis, Sonic Riders, Zero Gravity and Free Riders.
Looking at this template helped me realised that TYPE 1 may never be attained or added upon ever again. Type 2 is something we can accept as an alternative if you like 'em enough, but it's down to the individual. TYPE 3 are rare breeds and simply the best Sonic games we'll play in this day and age, mainly because Sega aren't the same company they were in the past and this is (seemingly for now) the best they can do.
In conclusion, personally I'm really looking forward to this Wednesday (I'm in the UK) purely because if TYPE 1 can truly no longer be attained, I'd rather have a TYPE 3 game any day of the week than the alternatives. Bring on Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Let it stand on it's own merits rather than be judged on all this horrible stigma it doesn't really rightly deserve.
Itchy//Tasty
Member
Willy105 said:
Well yeah, I was being harsher than necessary because this is NeoGAF. In all honesty I found several things to like in all the 3D Sonics except for 2006, which even then had a good soundtrack.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
(._.) said:
WTF @ the music
Hot Coldman
Banned
(._.) said:
Guys, we finally found Willy's YouTube alt account!
Yeah pressTeknoman said:
. Well I played it for an hour, and when you look at it like a game, its not that good. It works, but thats all. The 'Homing actions' make it a very easy game, and the level design is not that good either. Its nice, but nothing more. ''Mario watch out, sonic is back'', hell no.Green Scar said:
At first, I was going to counter by saying I am not that kind of guy, but then I realized I have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles dolls, and a HUGE Shadow doll that is like 2 feet tall, plus two issues of those Archie Sonic comics.
Maybe I should put them up on Youtube.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Willy105 said:
Do it, there can never be enough Sonic fan videos on Youtube.
sonikokaruto
Banned
This is gonna be a long type-in, so sit back, and laugh at my stupid typos.
Sega tried too hard.
The main problem i see with this stupid game is this: sega listened. I'm sure when they started trying to get an idea of what to do, they probably had a meeting where they went "we have to fuse the 3d sonic with the 2d sonic" and lo and behold! they gave us the shitty sonic we have in sonic 4.
Why do i think this? mainly because of the on air phisycs. When you spindashed off a ledge on sonic, you went spindashing like hell on anything. But if you did that on an adventure game, you'd come to a stop, wouldn't you? yup, you would.
They tried to make him do everything, and thus failed.
Sonic uncurls: side offect of the homing attack. You know it's there to not fuck up the homing attack thing. Imagine that if you homing attacked the air, fell on a small platform and rolled the fuck away, you'd be pissed, mainly because "i could not stop" or some shit. It would still be terrible level design.
I payed my 10 bucks to play this shitty game. And as i already payed, i might as well fucking finish it.
Now, on to the levels.
The level designers had already know that sonic would move shitty. So they made the 3 paths on almost all levels: the skill platform path, the press right path and the most hated one homing attack path.
The only way to know why and how, is to play it. I did. Probably something died inside of me (and according to it being sonic, it might be good).
The stages are good. Better than anything a lot of us could make.
The music is OK.
The bosses are also ok.
But let me tell you this: Nostalgia is like your 15 year old daughter. No matter what happens, SHE WILL BE A VIRGIN TILL MARRIAGE. Because there is no other way around it, hell, even i felt assaulted by this game. A lot of people felt insulted because it was the same enemies again, the same type of music/scenarios again and it kinda all was an assault on their childhood. Too bad sega used that to market this, it's now biting them in the ass.
This game tried way too hard to be the thing that sonic adventure tried to be.
My only suggestion for me to fix this game is: remove the curling/spindash ability (down while running/down + jump) and put it in a separate, self button.
If anyone of you actually read this: thank you, i get ignored 99% of the time over here. I also tried to bold the important things.
The game is shitty, yes it is. But, if you take off the rose tinted nerd virgin glasses, it's a really solid game, with fun gameplay and quirky physics. 8.4 from me.
Sega tried too hard.
The main problem i see with this stupid game is this: sega listened. I'm sure when they started trying to get an idea of what to do, they probably had a meeting where they went "we have to fuse the 3d sonic with the 2d sonic" and lo and behold! they gave us the shitty sonic we have in sonic 4.
Why do i think this? mainly because of the on air phisycs. When you spindashed off a ledge on sonic, you went spindashing like hell on anything. But if you did that on an adventure game, you'd come to a stop, wouldn't you? yup, you would.
They tried to make him do everything, and thus failed.
Sonic uncurls: side offect of the homing attack. You know it's there to not fuck up the homing attack thing. Imagine that if you homing attacked the air, fell on a small platform and rolled the fuck away, you'd be pissed, mainly because "i could not stop" or some shit. It would still be terrible level design.
I payed my 10 bucks to play this shitty game. And as i already payed, i might as well fucking finish it.
Now, on to the levels.
The level designers had already know that sonic would move shitty. So they made the 3 paths on almost all levels: the skill platform path, the press right path and the most hated one homing attack path.
The only way to know why and how, is to play it. I did. Probably something died inside of me (and according to it being sonic, it might be good).
The stages are good. Better than anything a lot of us could make.
The music is OK.
The bosses are also ok.
But let me tell you this: Nostalgia is like your 15 year old daughter. No matter what happens, SHE WILL BE A VIRGIN TILL MARRIAGE. Because there is no other way around it, hell, even i felt assaulted by this game. A lot of people felt insulted because it was the same enemies again, the same type of music/scenarios again and it kinda all was an assault on their childhood. Too bad sega used that to market this, it's now biting them in the ass.
This game tried way too hard to be the thing that sonic adventure tried to be.
My only suggestion for me to fix this game is: remove the curling/spindash ability (down while running/down + jump) and put it in a separate, self button.
If anyone of you actually read this: thank you, i get ignored 99% of the time over here. I also tried to bold the important things.
The game is shitty, yes it is. But, if you take off the rose tinted nerd virgin glasses, it's a really solid game, with fun gameplay and quirky physics. 8.4 from me.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
sonikokaruto said:
DING!! DING!! DING!! You give a "Shitty" game an 8.4?!! :lol Now you know why people ignore you. What do you give a great game? a 15?!!
Aaron Strife
Banned
What annoys me about uncurling is that it doesn't even happen in the Adventure games. If you spindash off of a ramp/slope in Sonic Adventure, Sonic will still be a ball.
It was a deliberate change they made just for this game. Like in Sonic 06, you can only kill enemies by using the homing attack, if you just try jumping on them you'll take damage.
It was a deliberate change they made just for this game. Like in Sonic 06, you can only kill enemies by using the homing attack, if you just try jumping on them you'll take damage.
Maybe it's on a 100 point scalerobbienick said:
So far having fun with the game on iPhone, was a headache at first, but it's not so bad. Actually went back through Sonic 1 & 2 on iPhone to compare and in some ways they feel just as clunky, so I can see the console versions being much better.
Finally got all the emeralds to;
Finally got all the emeralds to;
Super Sonic seems to be more closer to the original animation than Sonic, but he moves so freaking fast it's hard to make corrections quick enough with the virtual pad, died more sometimes trying to be super than not.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Every Sonic game is a 10, didn't you hear? 8.4 means it fucking SUCKS!Y2Kev said:
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Aaron Strife said:
That is totally untrue. 100% False. I don't know what game you're playing.
jetsetfluken
Member
Juicy Bob said:
They didn't listen to me and my "Classic Mode" suggestion. Homing attack disabled, and less rings (higher difficulty). They had to have it little Tommy's way.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
Andrex said:
And what leads you to believing and saying that?
It seems like you're just trolling at this point.
Diablohead
Member
In the thread about the sonic anniversary game someone posted a video of sonic pocket adventure, I have to say that game does a much better job then sonic 4 does.
Personally, I would open myself up to sonic 4 if they just made sonic behave a lot more like he use to in 1991-1996, by that I mean rolling in a half pipe speeds you up, rolling down hills actually does something, less boosters, no uncurling, homing attack as a shield power up, bigger ring splash when taking damage (sonic 4 drops them so limp, like sonic adventure ring loss) and made some fucking better sonic animations then that sonic advance 2 walk when at low speed, i'd be happy with the product sega have made.
When sega delayed the game I was expecting half of that to be fixed, say all you want about changing physics will break level design, they can fucking go over it again and adjust some areas, no? they had 3 months, why not?
I hope more people understand why I dislike sonic 4 because of those reasons, and some of the shit we were told about earning momentum and being called sonic 4, this is one of the worst things sega could to do sonic for me.
*edit* plus how sonic generally looks in sonic 4 is ugly to me, might be a sonic unleashed render model but he has a real terrible standing pose compared to sonic 1-2-3, posing a character is not budget related but it does take some thought and talent to make it look good...
Personally, I would open myself up to sonic 4 if they just made sonic behave a lot more like he use to in 1991-1996, by that I mean rolling in a half pipe speeds you up, rolling down hills actually does something, less boosters, no uncurling, homing attack as a shield power up, bigger ring splash when taking damage (sonic 4 drops them so limp, like sonic adventure ring loss) and made some fucking better sonic animations then that sonic advance 2 walk when at low speed, i'd be happy with the product sega have made.
When sega delayed the game I was expecting half of that to be fixed, say all you want about changing physics will break level design, they can fucking go over it again and adjust some areas, no? they had 3 months, why not?
I hope more people understand why I dislike sonic 4 because of those reasons, and some of the shit we were told about earning momentum and being called sonic 4, this is one of the worst things sega could to do sonic for me.
*edit* plus how sonic generally looks in sonic 4 is ugly to me, might be a sonic unleashed render model but he has a real terrible standing pose compared to sonic 1-2-3, posing a character is not budget related but it does take some thought and talent to make it look good...
jetsetfluken
Member
sonikokaruto said:
Another thing that hit me is, even though it was physically impossible to get most of the original key staff back on for this project, SEGA/DIMPS went in with the wrong attitude. They got on their knees to the oh so holy Genesis/Mega-Drive Sonics and were like slaves to whatever they read from critical fans and assumed they understood, instead of saying to themselves, "we're going to go in alone without fan feedback along the way, we're going to study every intricacy of the 16-bit games, we're going to emulate and surpass it, and we're going to make Sonic 3 & K look like shallow bullshit compared to this sequel."
I'll make another classic analogy in line with yours as well. Guys putting the "pussy on the pedestal" is what SEGA did here. They started getting into it with opportunities, but got nervous because they lacked the skills and didn't go into it the right way. Not so close, and no cigar. Faking confidence ("Sonic is back guys!", "Momentum must be earned" sappy speech) does not equal real confidence.
Diablohead said:
No, they couldn't have revised some of those elements, because it would have tampered with the level design and made it unplayable! The enemy bridges are essential to the levels!
That's roughly what a PR said I believe :lol
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Diablohead said:
I've seen both good and bad with that. I'm trying to beat my best time on Splash Hill Act 1 and there's an area that goes downhill for awhile, into a loop back downhill some more and up a ramp. In order to get to the bubbles chain way up the sky, I had to roll into a ball to get enough inertia. If I just ran, it didn't work. So rolling in a ball downhill DOES make you go faster.
That said, it will only let you go so high. There's a half-pipe style wall area in Casino Street Act 1 where I got kinda stuck. I kept rolling into a ball to roll upwards to try and get out of the high walls. I found out quickly that in ball form, no matter how high you drop, it will only take you back up so far. I had to uncurl Sonic and run up the wall to get out. Now technically, in real-life physics, that's how it works due to gravity, but in Sonic 2 it made you go faster and higher.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
That you're lollerblading at the notion that a major physics change and the removal of a character ability would require a major retweaking of levels really shows how little you think of level design and its importance.jetsetfluken said:
I'm sure that if, someway, we twisted the timeline to have Sonic 2 released today, people would be saying it´s shit.
"OMG, who is this Tails shit, he is fucking annoying! stop following!"
"Oh man, the IA is so shit, this retarded Tails things keeps dying and repapering"
"This new move is shit and cheapen the experience, you should get impulse by moving in the right way and not with a cheap move to impulse yourself."
"What's this shit of Super-Sonic? really Sega, you are trying too hard, this is lame, where is our classic Sonic?"
"OMG, who is this Tails shit, he is fucking annoying! stop following!"
"Oh man, the IA is so shit, this retarded Tails things keeps dying and repapering"
"This new move is shit and cheapen the experience, you should get impulse by moving in the right way and not with a cheap move to impulse yourself."
"What's this shit of Super-Sonic? really Sega, you are trying too hard, this is lame, where is our classic Sonic?"
the biggest problem with the new sonic game is that the dimps suck ass and have always sucked ass. the rush games were never good...the level design, the levels in general, the graphics, the bosses, the special stages...all crap. how is that shitty little company going to make a game comparable to something that all of sega came together to make, in their prime, 20 years ago?
Mama Robotnik
Member
Acosta said:
What the heck are you on about?
Sonic 2 introduced new ideas but also gently developed on the functional mechanics of the first game. The physics, music, sound, level design and gameplay structure were all enhanced by logically building on what worked. The spin-dash became an interesting new tool (that the level-design didn't force you to use) and was no less of a problem that Mario developing the ability pick stuff up.
Unlike the homing attack, it didn't simply play the game for you.
Regarding Tails and Super Sonic, as the fundementals were so seriously right and the implementation of these new ideas was so spot-on, I'm trying to work out what the hell you are on about. If you are trying to say that the fans are naturally repelled by new ideas (fun strawman), perhaps you should adjust your argument to this: Fans are naturally repelled by bloody stupid new ideas.
If Sonic 2 came out today, it would get a significantly more positive reception that this mess.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Some review score averages of Dimps Sonic games0 HP said:
Sonic Rush: 83
Sonic Advance: 84
Sonic Advance 2: 85
Sonic Advance 3: 81
Sonic Rush Adventure: 80
Sonic Pocket Adventure: 10 (IGN), 8.3 (Gamespot) *this game is not in Gamerankings or Metacritic's database
Maybe you don't care for the Dimps Sonic games, but they don't suck ass. Far from it. They're critically praised, consistent multi-million sellers, and pretty much anyone outside of the Classic-or-bust crowd will say good things about them. Also, they're far from little - they have 181 employees.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Funnily enough I marathoned Sonic 1 last night, and then tried playing Sonic 3 and found myself almost never spin dashing. It was just kind of ingrained into me that I couldn't.Mama Robotnik said:
also, I am going to rom-hack Sonic 1 and rename Labyrinth to "That Fucking Level". God I hate that level.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
The_Technomancer said:
Most people hate that level.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Labyrinth Zone used to give me serious anxiety as a kid.Combichristoffersen said:
I still feel a residual nervous twinge when I think about it.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
RobbieNick said:
something's actually left beta stage. Probably. Very likely. He would have to be insane not to.
This is where the Song comes from
THEY CALL ME SONIC!
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
THEY CALL ME SONIC!
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
They call me Sonic
cuz I am faster than sound I keep on jumping around
Blue Hedgehog Sonic
with incredible speed I'm moving my feet
They call me Sonic...
Blue Hedgehog Sonic...
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