PeakPointMatrix
Member
So it's a Sonic thread.Lan_97 said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven
- Thread starter WillyFive
- Start date
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
SwiftSketcher said:
:lol Basically.
It's nothing like that. There is nothing difficult or counter intuitive to the controls in Sonic 4. To even attempt to draw a comparison to some piece of shit NES game shows just how far off base you really are.claviertekky said:
It IS nothing like the Genesis games. We've known this for a long time now. That does NOT mean it isn't completely playable and fun.
I too have a lot of nostalgia for those classic games, but I can accept that they will not return. I enjoy platform games of all variety. Having a nice 60 fps, 1080p, 2D platform game in 2010 is pretty awesome, if you ask me. It certainly beats the shit out of that Rocket Knight game released earlier this year.
Mama Robotnik
Member
CVG review, pretty short and nonspecific. (The review, not the game).
Gamereactor review. Its "not poor". (The game, not the review).
Gamereactor review. Its "not poor". (The game, not the review).
MiamiWesker
Member
I wrote some impressions on another forum, I will share them here. This was my first reaction, from last night:
I played about half of Sonic 4 tonight, its crap, what a surprise...
Immediately Sonic feels weird, his speed, jumps and momentum are all wrong. Homing attack is used for everything and that really kills the flow of the game. The first world is simple, boring with lots of springs and loops. There is a level with a bunch of vines that you have to home attack with to gain momentum to launch up. Problem is the homing attack doesn't like to lock on to that vine and if you grab it without homing into it you can create enough momentum to launch yourself, very annoying section. Once you beat the first act you unlock every single level, you don't have to play the game in any order, its idiotic.
The second level is new version of the Sonic 2 casino. Here at least I saw moments of level design and decent platforming. The second act with all the floating cards was well done but the actual slot machines are very slow compared to Sonic 2, everything about the level is just worse. The third act uses canons as a gimmick, the stage is filled with cannons and it just gets annoying after a while, it slows everything down.
The new labyrinth zone seems ok, slightly better platforming than the last. New gimmick with this ball rolling thing where you need to keep sonic balanced on it. In other platformers all these different situations would be good variety. Sonic is not other platformers, the reason these games are so special is cause the way they play and the level design has no equivalent, there is nothing like it. This game is not trying to be that kind of game, its trying to borrow from other platformers and it messes up the formula. The second act has sonic with a torch in the dark and you light up the level as using the torch on different light panels, some of these activate platforms. At one point I was stuck in a "light the panels in the right order" puzzle, wtf. Why is there a puzzle that stops all movement in a Sonic game.
The boss fights are bad replicas of former bosses, homing attack makes them easy. They even managed to screw up the bonus level, the one from Sonic 1 with the rotating level. How do you completely screw up something they did right in 1991. The music is complete booty, not a memorable song in the bunch.
Sonic 4 as a classic Sonic game SUCKS. The only enjoyment I will get out of this game is to play it like Rush or the 3D Sonics, which is to replay the levels over and over again for high scores and time attack. At least those games had gameplay mechanics which were made for score and time challenges. I may learn to enjoy it when my competitive juices start to flow but as just a normal Sonic game its garbage.
This is today after finishing the game and playing more of it:
Ok I like it much more now. The last level, the metropolis zone remake feels like Genesis sonic, not as good but ok. If the whole next game is like this it could be something to look forward to. The final boss is very well done, I was surprised.
After that I started to do time attack and as I predicted I started to enjoy the game much more. There are a bunch of paths in each level so finding the right one and nailing the execution is a thrill. I am now ranked 5th in the world in Mad Gear Act 1. Getting all the chaos emeralds is tough. At first I hated the levels cause it controlled differently than Sonic 1 and it seemed boring. The later ones are very challenging. Luckily you cant just choose the bonus levels in stage select you need to get to them the normal way and that I love cause it forces me to replay levels which allow me to get more and more familiar with them.
After the initial shock that its not Genesis Sonic I am starting to see a good game in there. I can see why it got some of the high scores it did. I bet casual fans that have not played a Genesis Sonic in a long time will play it and think its a cool game. People like me know the series to well and see that it is a poor mans Genesis Sonic. But Dimps knows how to do one thing right, that is to make levels that are awesome to speed run, this is no different. If you just want to play the game to finish it, its too short and costs too much, don't bother. If you are like me and have enjoyed the Rush games and some of the 3D sonics I think you will find something enjoyable.
I played about half of Sonic 4 tonight, its crap, what a surprise...
Immediately Sonic feels weird, his speed, jumps and momentum are all wrong. Homing attack is used for everything and that really kills the flow of the game. The first world is simple, boring with lots of springs and loops. There is a level with a bunch of vines that you have to home attack with to gain momentum to launch up. Problem is the homing attack doesn't like to lock on to that vine and if you grab it without homing into it you can create enough momentum to launch yourself, very annoying section. Once you beat the first act you unlock every single level, you don't have to play the game in any order, its idiotic.
The second level is new version of the Sonic 2 casino. Here at least I saw moments of level design and decent platforming. The second act with all the floating cards was well done but the actual slot machines are very slow compared to Sonic 2, everything about the level is just worse. The third act uses canons as a gimmick, the stage is filled with cannons and it just gets annoying after a while, it slows everything down.
The new labyrinth zone seems ok, slightly better platforming than the last. New gimmick with this ball rolling thing where you need to keep sonic balanced on it. In other platformers all these different situations would be good variety. Sonic is not other platformers, the reason these games are so special is cause the way they play and the level design has no equivalent, there is nothing like it. This game is not trying to be that kind of game, its trying to borrow from other platformers and it messes up the formula. The second act has sonic with a torch in the dark and you light up the level as using the torch on different light panels, some of these activate platforms. At one point I was stuck in a "light the panels in the right order" puzzle, wtf. Why is there a puzzle that stops all movement in a Sonic game.
The boss fights are bad replicas of former bosses, homing attack makes them easy. They even managed to screw up the bonus level, the one from Sonic 1 with the rotating level. How do you completely screw up something they did right in 1991. The music is complete booty, not a memorable song in the bunch.
Sonic 4 as a classic Sonic game SUCKS. The only enjoyment I will get out of this game is to play it like Rush or the 3D Sonics, which is to replay the levels over and over again for high scores and time attack. At least those games had gameplay mechanics which were made for score and time challenges. I may learn to enjoy it when my competitive juices start to flow but as just a normal Sonic game its garbage.
This is today after finishing the game and playing more of it:
Ok I like it much more now. The last level, the metropolis zone remake feels like Genesis sonic, not as good but ok. If the whole next game is like this it could be something to look forward to. The final boss is very well done, I was surprised.
After that I started to do time attack and as I predicted I started to enjoy the game much more. There are a bunch of paths in each level so finding the right one and nailing the execution is a thrill. I am now ranked 5th in the world in Mad Gear Act 1. Getting all the chaos emeralds is tough. At first I hated the levels cause it controlled differently than Sonic 1 and it seemed boring. The later ones are very challenging. Luckily you cant just choose the bonus levels in stage select you need to get to them the normal way and that I love cause it forces me to replay levels which allow me to get more and more familiar with them.
After the initial shock that its not Genesis Sonic I am starting to see a good game in there. I can see why it got some of the high scores it did. I bet casual fans that have not played a Genesis Sonic in a long time will play it and think its a cool game. People like me know the series to well and see that it is a poor mans Genesis Sonic. But Dimps knows how to do one thing right, that is to make levels that are awesome to speed run, this is no different. If you just want to play the game to finish it, its too short and costs too much, don't bother. If you are like me and have enjoyed the Rush games and some of the 3D sonics I think you will find something enjoyable.
Suzuki Yu said:
Hey, this actually makes it looks kind of fun. All the homing attack is pretty meh though.
I'll be buying this simply because my childhood gaming roots lie in Sonic 1 and 2. I started gaming with Sonic 2 when I was fucking 3 years old and it was fun as hell.
If it's bad, oh well. I bought Sonic 06 and Unleashed and they were terrible, no sweat. They can't take away Sonic 1-3&K <3
I really hate the "finally back to the 2D roots" meme that's seems to be in most reviews in one form or another. It's like no reviewer has even heard of the Advance or Rush series, and that the only things they remember of the classics are that Sonic is blue and runs fast. The scores don't bother me, but the ignorance on display do. I'm kind of feeling like one of those Sonictards right now, and that bothers me most of all.
Still, looking forward to giving the demo a fair shake tomorrow.
What the fuck, Eurogamer? What the fuck?Eurogamer said:
Still, looking forward to giving the demo a fair shake tomorrow.
MiamiWesker said:
Just swing left and right to build momentum. There are very few that require a homing attack, and those that do are optional. And indeed you can just skip a lot of the vine areas.
That's not entirely right--you still have to beat the three particular levels in order to unlock the boss. I don't see how this is a problem. Just play in the right order.
That's the only part of the game where there's an actual, sizable puzzle. You can also skip it by staying in the upper part of the level. And it isn't even hard. You make it sound like you must break your momentum multiple times in every level.
The bosses would have been just as easy without the homing attack. There's nothing about the homing attack per se that makes the fight any easier (e.g. third boss you still must avoid pillars, fourth boss you must avoid the balloons)
How is it worse? The only difference is that you have a time limit and a bit more control over sonic. It isn't as difficult as on the Genesis, and you actually have the opportunity to get super sonic even if you don't get all the emeralds during your first play-through.
Mama Robotnik
Member
pmj said:
Its objectionable. But its nothing compared to the madness going on in the 1up review:
Thank god they removed the all that horrible 16-bit awkward platforming and added that homing attack, eh?
@pmj: Eurogamer is correct. All four level designs, most of the enemies, every boss, and many of the obstacles in the game are taken straight from Genesis Sonic games. The only difference is the new physics engine.
Now that I think about it I don't think there are any original enemies in this game.
Now that I think about it I don't think there are any original enemies in this game.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Mama Robotnik said:
So taking away all that was good in Sonic games and replacing it with shit = the right way to make Sonic games? Yeah, no, 1up.
electroshockwave
Member
Just downloaded the demo from Japanese PSN and to be honest it's not awful but it's not that great either. Some parts of the game don't just feel bad as a Sonic game but as a platformer in general. For instance Sonic feels kind of sluggish and unresponsive when you start moving but also feels like he loses all momentum very quickly for no real reason. I think the game could have been improved vastly if they didn't include the homing attack and didn't build levels around it. It's annoying to have a split second to hit it to cross an enemy bridge that breaks the flow of the game when I'm actually enjoying it. It seems to behave a little weirdly at some points like that part where you break the rock to get at the spring it takes too long for it to target the spring. I've accidentally hit it too early a few times, which caused me to air dash off to the right. But when you're crossing an enemy bridge it auto-targets the next enemy almost immediately.
I think I would buy it at a lower price but right now I don't think it's worth it.
So has Sega named and shamed anyone yet for buying multiple copies?
I think I would buy it at a lower price but right now I don't think it's worth it.
Well done.DR2K said:
So has Sega named and shamed anyone yet for buying multiple copies?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well this thread got amusing fast. I have to say, for me it was a 5 or 6, but if you didn't love the Genesis games the way I do, I can see it being a 7 or 8 for most people. A 9 though....no.
Diablohead
Member
I like how sega have made speedrun times show if you activated super sonic or not, such a vital thing for time attacks.
Zomba13
Member
I've completed it with all 7 emeralds. It's pretty much Sonic Advance 4 with a ton of classic Sonic homages and a new spin on classic bosses. It's not bad though just not classic Sonic (and they still hold up great so a new game using the same engine and techniques wouldn't be too old fashioned to work)
I AM JOHN!
Banned
Dear Kat Bailey:
Do not talk about Sonic games ever again. You have proven yourself as credible and grounded in sanity as Willy.
Kisses,
John.
Do not talk about Sonic games ever again. You have proven yourself as credible and grounded in sanity as Willy.
Kisses,
John.
MiamiWesker
Member
Diablohead said:
Sadly you cant filter it. In Mad Gear act 1 I was the highest ranked Sonic, now its slowly being taken over by super sonics. I better hurry and unlock that.
My impressions after playing the green hill zone equiv (act 1) a few times:
Mostly, meh.
This isn't horrible, but it's not great, and not my favourite new 2D Sonic by a long stretch. Sonic Rush is better, then maybe Sonic Rush 2, then maybe Sonic Advance (though the level design was bad) and then this. Maybe this is better than Sonic Advance, I'd have to compare the two more closely.
Graphics are okay. Pretty sharp on the PS3, but feel a little cheap. Sonic himself looks okay, but over animated in some areas, and barely animated at all elsewhere.
Physics is hit and miss. Fairly robust, but doesn't quite have the momentum of other Sonic games. The SA style lock-on is understandable but a pretty cheap move. Forgivable though, and I like it much more than the stunts in Sonic Rush.
The only thing that really really annoyed me when playing was the way the rings happen when you hit spikes. It drops about 25 rings maximum, it definitely seemed fewer than the 32 on the megadrive but that could be an illusion from the widescreen. HOWEVER, what was unforgivable was that rings are culled from the physics engine when going offscreen! Rings that were following me as I fall down to a lower section disappear entirely rather than bouncing high on the megadrive. I tested this a few times, and they are definitely trimming rings if they go offscreen when you are falling, even if they're directly above you.
So, is it worth $15, or whatever that'll be in GBP? Eh, I dunno. It's not that expensive so maybe, but it's not made me excited either. I wonder how far apart the episodes are.
Mostly, meh.
This isn't horrible, but it's not great, and not my favourite new 2D Sonic by a long stretch. Sonic Rush is better, then maybe Sonic Rush 2, then maybe Sonic Advance (though the level design was bad) and then this. Maybe this is better than Sonic Advance, I'd have to compare the two more closely.
Graphics are okay. Pretty sharp on the PS3, but feel a little cheap. Sonic himself looks okay, but over animated in some areas, and barely animated at all elsewhere.
Physics is hit and miss. Fairly robust, but doesn't quite have the momentum of other Sonic games. The SA style lock-on is understandable but a pretty cheap move. Forgivable though, and I like it much more than the stunts in Sonic Rush.
The only thing that really really annoyed me when playing was the way the rings happen when you hit spikes. It drops about 25 rings maximum, it definitely seemed fewer than the 32 on the megadrive but that could be an illusion from the widescreen. HOWEVER, what was unforgivable was that rings are culled from the physics engine when going offscreen! Rings that were following me as I fall down to a lower section disappear entirely rather than bouncing high on the megadrive. I tested this a few times, and they are definitely trimming rings if they go offscreen when you are falling, even if they're directly above you.
So, is it worth $15, or whatever that'll be in GBP? Eh, I dunno. It's not that expensive so maybe, but it's not made me excited either. I wonder how far apart the episodes are.
Diablohead
Member
That is shitty :/ GG SEGAMiamiWesker said:
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
So when the shitfuck will this crap be up on PSN so I can give Sega my 15 goddamn dollars that I could be spending on a decent bloody meal instead?
Also I noticed that the demo music was unchanged. Are the changes only for the Wii version or something?
Also I noticed that the demo music was unchanged. Are the changes only for the Wii version or something?
Diablohead
Member
wii version has to play music differently as ogg/mp3 files would bloat the game too large, so it's synthesized or whatever.Hitlersaurus Christ said:
Some people on sonic retro already have the music ripped as midi files, remixing incoming!?
Well, it's official: this game is not fucking fun. Holy shit.
Okay, in some ways, I actually think the level design is sometimes worse than that of the Sonic Advance/Rush games, and that's quite an accomplishment.
This truly is "hold right to win." Oh, except now, you also have "lock on to an enemy in midair to kill them one after another...again...and again...and again."
PS: Why can Sonic still roll up in a ball? It's not even worth having, anymore.
Okay, in some ways, I actually think the level design is sometimes worse than that of the Sonic Advance/Rush games, and that's quite an accomplishment.
This truly is "hold right to win." Oh, except now, you also have "lock on to an enemy in midair to kill them one after another...again...and again...and again."
PS: Why can Sonic still roll up in a ball? It's not even worth having, anymore.
dark10x said:
The fact that it's different doesn't make it unfun. The fact that the controls are bad is what makes it unfun. And many people have went into great length already explaining why they are bad.
Maybe some people can overlook questionable controls in a platformer, but I absolutely cannot. Which makes the comparison to NSMB DS even more hilarious, because the controls were slightly different from past Mario games but, in the end, were still good. That's why that game is a top-tier platformer while Sonic 4 is a mediocre-to-bad platformer. Simple as that.
7echnicolor
Member
This is kinda off topic, but when does Microsoft usually add new stuff to the Marketplace on Wednesdays? Midnight?
electroshockwave
Member
btkadams said:
As far as I can tell the custom soundtracks are just through the XMB so if you want to change the song for each level or pause the music while you pause the game you have to go through the XMB to do it.
The music is tolerable, but the "IT'S OLD SCHOOL!!!! REALLY!!!!" sound is a little grating. It's no Genesis Sonic music -- that's for sure.
As far as New Super Mario Bros. controls are concerned: I definitely prefer the controls from, say, Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World. Those games had tight controls. You could make Mario do whatever the hell you wanted very easily. New Super Mario Bros. has considerably more slippery controls, and it is a bit of a distraction. But if Super Mario World had 100% controls, then New Super Mario Bros. would be at 95% and Sonic 4 would be at 65%.
It's not the worst controlled game ever, but that's not saying much. I mean, I'm sorry, but I don't want to play a game just because it's not the worst ever.
As far as New Super Mario Bros. controls are concerned: I definitely prefer the controls from, say, Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World. Those games had tight controls. You could make Mario do whatever the hell you wanted very easily. New Super Mario Bros. has considerably more slippery controls, and it is a bit of a distraction. But if Super Mario World had 100% controls, then New Super Mario Bros. would be at 95% and Sonic 4 would be at 65%.
It's not the worst controlled game ever, but that's not saying much. I mean, I'm sorry, but I don't want to play a game just because it's not the worst ever.