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SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven
- Thread starter WillyFive
- Start date
MiamiWesker
Member
I just started to play Sonic Chronicles, and you people want to call some of the recent Sonic's bad, they are masterpieces compared to this piece of shit.
Diablohead
Member
A friend bought this the other day, come monday I shall go check out some levels after the demo's first act but I don't think my feelings are going to change any, I'll make sure to play labyrinth act 2 since a lot of people say it's one of the best acts.
Diablohead
Member
Well sorry I am not happy with sonic advance 4 HD like some of you here, the demo and multiple game play footage was enough to shows me exactly how the game has turned out.ismaboof said:
Now that the thread has cooled off a little (for a while there there was biting and removal of heads from bodies) I feel comfortable not being hyperbolic in any extreme direction.
I like Sonic, enough to trudge through a lot of garbage to wring a tiny bit of sweetness from the most hopeless of propositions. Sonic 06? Had some fun with it! Shadow The Hedgehog? Had some fun with it! Sonic Heroes? I uh.. well I've re-bought it about four times to try to have some fun with it. I'll have to report back on how that's going down the line.
Short story; I want to like Sonic games and for the most part I can find something redeemable about them. Except Sonic Chronicles which is so hopelessly borked as an RPG it's strange that it's not held up like a prostitute sex scandal to discredit BioWare.
So, basically, I won't easily dismiss a Sonic game because I lack that sense of entitlement I guess. I would like for them to be shining examples of *The Best Thing*, that's a basic desire with most games I'm interested in obviously, but it's hardly shocking to me when they aren't at this point.
To me, Sonic 4 has problems, but an absolute truckload of them are of perception and perspective. Of course, the most glaring issue is one that it happily invites by sticking a "4" on the proverbial box; it's simply not Sonic 4 on any level.
A few of those levels are wronger than others, and some of them aren't problems as much as mislabelling.
The way I see it, everything you can point out as being different from the older games is just that; different. There's no inherent problem in Sonic 4 playing differently, it's just that the titling of the game invites the preconcieved notion that it's meant to be like the old games to a tee. Possibly, Megaman 9 had something to do with those assumptions, but that's somewhat irrelevant. Sonic 4 isn't *that game*, and the ways it strays from being *that game* are design choices that make sense in the isolation of being its *own* thing. Dimps know how to make a game, and here they've made a perfectly playable, fun game as long as you approach it with that mindset.
It's not that I don't see the differences nor that I don't appreciate what the old Sonic games had by being the way they were. I wouldn't mind a Sonic 4 that was the Megaman 9 to the Sonic series but this clearly isn't that. If you don't deliberately try to force old ways to play on it, Sonic 4 eventually turns into a fundamentally different game that is fun in its own right - one that capitalises on its new mechanics in a way that you can't just swap systems out of it, which is honestly why I think it does feel a bit awkward in places. I think their "fixes" after the feedback was bits of the old games frankensteined into a game that wasn't built to have them.
All of that could be leviated by just calling it something else, though. The "4" moniker and PR speak conspired to set people up for something that this game wasn't really aspiring to be aside from superficially.
But even after this elaborate excuse/explanation hybrid, I think Sonic 4 has a slew of problems that remain problematic no matter what you name it or how you market it.
For me, the real problem is that it feels hollow, tame, uninspired, unexcited to be what it is, confusion over what it is notwithstanding. The rehashed level themes wouldn't be as painful if they had half the character of the "zones" they're derived from. The music does sometimes come together quite well and gives a fleeting sensation of personality, but there's nothing even remotely as memorable in here as the originals or even Sonic Adventure or Rush, to be increasingly brutal.
In trying to "sort of" be evocative of old levels, it's removing the parts of the old levels that were identifiable and unique in an attempt to not *quite* be those levels. The end result is a massively castrated game throughout that, while for all intents and purposes has some fun levels in it, lacks the "landmarks" to make it feel like you've been places or gone anywhere.
A feeling that persists throuhout is "when's the Chemical Plant Zone Act 1 of Sonic 4 gonna start?" to give you that jolt of adrenaline, to give you that buzz, that sense of substance.
It never happens.
Sonic himself has the same problem any character model meant to be viewed from different angles and up close has when you shrink it down and view it from the side for an entire game. Expressionless, charmless. An avatar you control, but one that might aswell be a blue dot. I had this problem with NSMB too, and it's pretty basic stuff if you're half used to drawing characters at all. You don't use the same design for a tiny comic strip as you do for full comic book panels.
Effectively, Sonic doesn't really feel like Sonic in his "comeback game". There's zero attitude there, zero presence. Sonic Advance got that infinitely more right than this supposed "true sequel" does.
Beyond this there are niggles of longevity and things like that, but that's always a boring thing to bring up. The time attack and score attack stuff is compelling enough, but would it really be too much to ask for some basic online multiplayer stuff when your game is *downloadable* to begin with? Then again the witch hunt for "shitty friends" removed anyone for Sonic to race I guess. Still, even completing it with all chaos emeralds and having got all but one achievement I feel a little short changed. I'd love to spend more time with the game, but there's frankly nothing left to do.
So in closing, I think even with concessions made to what it turned out to be, it still has things holding it back and bringing it down some. I think it's fun - and ultimately when you're sitting there playing it that is of greatest importance - but it's just pretty bland. I'd love to love it more, but it's difficult to appreciate the features of something so largely featureless.
The irony is that many of the games during these 16 years of "waiting" have shown more personality, genuine excitement and passion even in their darkest hour, regardless of the quality of their gameplay. Perhaps the upcoming episodes - which I do look forward to - can infuse Sonic 4 with those things.
Apologies for the gigantic post.
I like Sonic, enough to trudge through a lot of garbage to wring a tiny bit of sweetness from the most hopeless of propositions. Sonic 06? Had some fun with it! Shadow The Hedgehog? Had some fun with it! Sonic Heroes? I uh.. well I've re-bought it about four times to try to have some fun with it. I'll have to report back on how that's going down the line.
Short story; I want to like Sonic games and for the most part I can find something redeemable about them. Except Sonic Chronicles which is so hopelessly borked as an RPG it's strange that it's not held up like a prostitute sex scandal to discredit BioWare.
So, basically, I won't easily dismiss a Sonic game because I lack that sense of entitlement I guess. I would like for them to be shining examples of *The Best Thing*, that's a basic desire with most games I'm interested in obviously, but it's hardly shocking to me when they aren't at this point.
To me, Sonic 4 has problems, but an absolute truckload of them are of perception and perspective. Of course, the most glaring issue is one that it happily invites by sticking a "4" on the proverbial box; it's simply not Sonic 4 on any level.
A few of those levels are wronger than others, and some of them aren't problems as much as mislabelling.
The way I see it, everything you can point out as being different from the older games is just that; different. There's no inherent problem in Sonic 4 playing differently, it's just that the titling of the game invites the preconcieved notion that it's meant to be like the old games to a tee. Possibly, Megaman 9 had something to do with those assumptions, but that's somewhat irrelevant. Sonic 4 isn't *that game*, and the ways it strays from being *that game* are design choices that make sense in the isolation of being its *own* thing. Dimps know how to make a game, and here they've made a perfectly playable, fun game as long as you approach it with that mindset.
It's not that I don't see the differences nor that I don't appreciate what the old Sonic games had by being the way they were. I wouldn't mind a Sonic 4 that was the Megaman 9 to the Sonic series but this clearly isn't that. If you don't deliberately try to force old ways to play on it, Sonic 4 eventually turns into a fundamentally different game that is fun in its own right - one that capitalises on its new mechanics in a way that you can't just swap systems out of it, which is honestly why I think it does feel a bit awkward in places. I think their "fixes" after the feedback was bits of the old games frankensteined into a game that wasn't built to have them.
All of that could be leviated by just calling it something else, though. The "4" moniker and PR speak conspired to set people up for something that this game wasn't really aspiring to be aside from superficially.
But even after this elaborate excuse/explanation hybrid, I think Sonic 4 has a slew of problems that remain problematic no matter what you name it or how you market it.
For me, the real problem is that it feels hollow, tame, uninspired, unexcited to be what it is, confusion over what it is notwithstanding. The rehashed level themes wouldn't be as painful if they had half the character of the "zones" they're derived from. The music does sometimes come together quite well and gives a fleeting sensation of personality, but there's nothing even remotely as memorable in here as the originals or even Sonic Adventure or Rush, to be increasingly brutal.
In trying to "sort of" be evocative of old levels, it's removing the parts of the old levels that were identifiable and unique in an attempt to not *quite* be those levels. The end result is a massively castrated game throughout that, while for all intents and purposes has some fun levels in it, lacks the "landmarks" to make it feel like you've been places or gone anywhere.
A feeling that persists throuhout is "when's the Chemical Plant Zone Act 1 of Sonic 4 gonna start?" to give you that jolt of adrenaline, to give you that buzz, that sense of substance.
It never happens.
Sonic himself has the same problem any character model meant to be viewed from different angles and up close has when you shrink it down and view it from the side for an entire game. Expressionless, charmless. An avatar you control, but one that might aswell be a blue dot. I had this problem with NSMB too, and it's pretty basic stuff if you're half used to drawing characters at all. You don't use the same design for a tiny comic strip as you do for full comic book panels.
Effectively, Sonic doesn't really feel like Sonic in his "comeback game". There's zero attitude there, zero presence. Sonic Advance got that infinitely more right than this supposed "true sequel" does.
Beyond this there are niggles of longevity and things like that, but that's always a boring thing to bring up. The time attack and score attack stuff is compelling enough, but would it really be too much to ask for some basic online multiplayer stuff when your game is *downloadable* to begin with? Then again the witch hunt for "shitty friends" removed anyone for Sonic to race I guess. Still, even completing it with all chaos emeralds and having got all but one achievement I feel a little short changed. I'd love to spend more time with the game, but there's frankly nothing left to do.
So in closing, I think even with concessions made to what it turned out to be, it still has things holding it back and bringing it down some. I think it's fun - and ultimately when you're sitting there playing it that is of greatest importance - but it's just pretty bland. I'd love to love it more, but it's difficult to appreciate the features of something so largely featureless.
The irony is that many of the games during these 16 years of "waiting" have shown more personality, genuine excitement and passion even in their darkest hour, regardless of the quality of their gameplay. Perhaps the upcoming episodes - which I do look forward to - can infuse Sonic 4 with those things.
Apologies for the gigantic post.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Diablohead said:
Both Lost Labyrinth and Mad Gear Zone are fantastic.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Labyrinth can be annoying, but Mac Gear Zone (especially acts 1 and 2) is the best in the game.Anticitizen One said:
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
After playing the demo, the game feels really awkward. :/
Just played the demo. That "off" feeling that I'm hearing about....yeah. I'm feeling it, too.
Aside from that, my first impression was "this feels a little to hastily thrown together". It's not awful, just disappointing I suppose. It doesn't exactly make me want to buy the game. And I was excited for this, too
Aside from that, my first impression was "this feels a little to hastily thrown together". It's not awful, just disappointing I suppose. It doesn't exactly make me want to buy the game. And I was excited for this, too
Gravijah said:
What do we call people that don't believe that?
We need a label for those who thought that Robotnik invading Earth and having big fat Chao water monsters terrorizing humans while Sonic came to the streets of Earth saving Earth from impending doom all made for a great Sonic game.
Some name we can call those people who when they saw Sonic in battling a water monster in front of an apartment complex in Long Beach while surrounded by cops they thought to themselves that this is a Sonic game.
MidnightScott
Banned
Since SEGA says they are listening to fans, hopefully they will fix the physics and all will be good again. Otherwise I'm actually liking this game. Better than any of the other shit since Sonic Adventure graced us 11 years ago (12 in Japan!)
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Iknos said:
Normal people?
People who's opinions are different from yours?
People who've played Sonic games on anything other than a Genesis?
Non-Purists? I dunno.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
How about the majority of the Sonic fanbase.Iknos said:
Sonic Adventure was a runaway hit enjoyed by millions, and is probably being rebought by the thousands as I type. It changed the Sonic franchise forever. Deal with it.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
So has anyone gotten Huelen's opinion on this game?
This is v. important
This is v. important
A Huge Battleship
Member
Finished it. S'alright, but I can't see myself replaying it anywhere near the amount of times I've replayed the Genesis games, if at all.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
Fuck this. I'm not going for Super Sonic. The special stages are way too frustrating in my opinion.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
CurseoftheGods said:
I found the specials stages to be the complete opposite, I feel they are too forgiving. Having that retry option is far to tempting and easy to go to. The same goes for being able to restart levels any time. Now I have a glut of 200+ lives.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
Upsidedown Fuji said:
Can I redo a stage to get a different emerald if I have gotten one in that particular stage previously?
CurseoftheGods
Banned
CurseoftheGods said:
Just checked. The answer is no.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Upsidedown Fuji said:
I think we need to do away with the idea of finite lives. NSMBW gave you an infinite ton as well. What's the point? We're not putting quarters into this thing.
RobbieNick said:
Without having lives valuable, then it would be the same as not being able to die, except just restarting. And that would be stupid, so you make it that you can't die. Then it would lead to a Epic Yearn scenario of people complaining you can't die.
I don't think finite lives are that big a problem, or deal.
Sato Koiji
Member
So after experiencing the trial Ive come to a conclusion.
Sonic 4 is utter crap.
The defining thing that made Sonic the greatest plattformer IMO was the physics combined with the speed. You could do that perfect high speed jump collecting the rings that were in the air perfectly.
In Sonic 4 you suddenly slow down for NO FUCKIN REASON!!!! Slow down...the jumping is crap and it seems Sonic has tucked some weights in his shoes.
Miserable pile of talentless shitheads= Sega/Sonic Team.
I give up. Ill enjoy the Mega Drive games I will just give up. I cant do it anymore and I don't care.
Sonic 4 is utter crap.
The defining thing that made Sonic the greatest plattformer IMO was the physics combined with the speed. You could do that perfect high speed jump collecting the rings that were in the air perfectly.
In Sonic 4 you suddenly slow down for NO FUCKIN REASON!!!! Slow down...the jumping is crap and it seems Sonic has tucked some weights in his shoes.
Miserable pile of talentless shitheads= Sega/Sonic Team.
I give up. Ill enjoy the Mega Drive games I will just give up. I cant do it anymore and I don't care.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Upsidedown Fuji said:
I'm in the camp that thinks they are way too difficult. Sonic bounces around too much and control feels very sluggish. "Shaking" the stage to make Sonic jump doesn't always work, either, and when it does work, he gets launched at too great a speed.
It's hard enough just moving Sonic where you want to go, but then they throw in those fucking time limits on top of it and that's where things get REALLY annoying.
Anyone having major problems with the PS3 controller? I've noticed that, when using either the dpad or the control stick, I'll accidentally press down when I mean to press right.
AND IN A GAME WHERE ALL MOMENTUM DIES THE INSTANT YOU STOP PRESSING RIGHT, THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING. FUCK YOU FINAL BOSS.
AND IN A GAME WHERE ALL MOMENTUM DIES THE INSTANT YOU STOP PRESSING RIGHT, THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING. FUCK YOU FINAL BOSS.
J-Roderton
Member
MidnightScott said:
Would they do that? Just change that part of the game after it's out?
After taking a day or 2 off I sat here and played the trial over and over. Must have been 10 times last night. Still can't bring myself to spend money on this.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
lawblob said:
bumpkin
Member
So I finally gave the trial a whirl last night, and I really don't know if I'm going to buy or not... Something about how it plays feels off. First and foremost, he just feels like he's running through deep mud; that is until you eventually get going fast, and even then I'm not getting a sense of speed. It's like his animation is so over-done that he looks/feels like he's physically moving less distance than his stride looks like it should take him.
And the whole split-in-the-air animation when you get bounced high? It's more like an inconvenience than a perk. In the old games, you'd be balled up and ready to bounce on an enemy. Now you either do the homing attack and maybe hit something, or let yourself descend until you see something, but miss because it's too late.
I had high hopes. Currently they're dashed.
And the whole split-in-the-air animation when you get bounced high? It's more like an inconvenience than a perk. In the old games, you'd be balled up and ready to bounce on an enemy. Now you either do the homing attack and maybe hit something, or let yourself descend until you see something, but miss because it's too late.
I had high hopes. Currently they're dashed.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sega1991 said:
Agreed. Sluggish controls + Sonic moving slowly + Sonic bouncing around + time limits = garbage
MidnightScott
Banned
[Nintex] said:
Umm you know it was announced that it would be episodic releases right? :S
Diablohead
Member
Yeah but still 1200 points for what is episode 1, it is short.MidnightScott said:
Yeah, much like everyone else is mentioning... played the Sonic 4 trial version, which made me realize that the developers/programmers seem to have forgotten what exactly makes a 2D Sonic game work, both with the mechanics and aesthetics.
So I popped in my copy of Ultimate Genesis Collection and played Sonic 2 with a far better appreciation for what it does right, despite having grown up playing it and nostalgia presiding.
So I popped in my copy of Ultimate Genesis Collection and played Sonic 2 with a far better appreciation for what it does right, despite having grown up playing it and nostalgia presiding.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
the experiment, if anyone was wondering, was to see if i could elicit any of the classic hog fans to say something along the lines of "liking the game is also a valid viewpoint, if different from my own" without throwing a backhanded remark in there somewhere.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Iknos said:
#
alucard6770
2 months ago 12
This is why I always loved Sonic games more than Mario. Yeah, Mario is great and all, but I could never get past the fact of how there is always a complete lack of story. At least Sonic games put a lot of plot in them that tie up past occurrences and secrets. Sadly, Sonic is going down a little, which is actually annoying because games like Sonic Adventure prove Sonic team can very well make a great 3d game with a great story and character development.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
Ex:2 said:
You liked Shadow and Sonic 2006?
Mama Robotnik
Member
Not that any of Gamespot's reviews matter since Kane and Lynch, but they've given Sonic 4 a 6.5. Yeah. I know its an obvious invalid source.
Be warned if you follow the link: Its another one of those type of reviews that praise the homing attack.
Be warned if you follow the link: Its another one of those type of reviews that praise the homing attack.