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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT2 Battle|

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Tizoc

Member
Why does it seem like almost everyone in this thread has played Jak II within the last 8 months? You won't be seein' me play that anytime soon.
KuGsj.gif
I played it Day 1 and beat it, dunnno if I actually enjoyed it, but I knew for a fact that it was long enough for me not to want to replay it =p
But it does. After playing it for a while, it's pretty easy to find routes for the time travel. Of course, I had to watch one of Bean's videos to learn how to do one stage's path, but in some cases, the levels do facilitate having you explore around and backtrack in order to find areas where it's perfectly fine to time travel into. Not to mention some of the stuff in the levels end up facilitating the player to explore more (ex: alternate exit in Collision Chaos, the Metal Sonic holograms, the time machines, etc). The design facilitates making the player themselves learn and understand how the levels work, and how the physics in a Sonic game is supposed to work. Do you have enough speed to travel through time? Will you be able to peel-out on top of a hill and then jump appropriately to reach something on a platform you couldn’t get to before? Do you understand the momentum springs give you in order to facilitate time travel? I… kinda like that design because it teaches the player to learn themselves rather than being completely straightforward.
Hmm mind linking to Bean's vids please?
If I get what you wrote properly; there are certain areas in a stage that ideal for time traveling, but one needs to find them? As such it would mean replaying the game in order to utilize the proper time travel locations one found in a previous playthrough.
Honestly, when it comes to exploration, the title I can appropriately compare it to in that regard is Sonic Unleashed, and I feel like CD did it better (and I like Unleashed a lot, so that says something). I do wish that the game gave you apt reasons to travel forward in time vs. constantly going back to the past.
I'd say the Future signs are 'traps' another obstacle in getting the 'Good Future' ending/end result.

I dunno. I like Sonic CD. It's great. Like Sciz said probably years ago, Sonic CD just seems to be built on top of Spring Yard Zone's general qualities with respect to the level design. Sonic 2/3&K are built based on Green Hill Zone's level design and mechanics. I genuinely like Spring Yard, so it's probably not a surprise that I like Sonic CD at all.

Again, it’s a “to each their own” sort of deal.
Hmm I prob. should replay sonic 1 to completion someday and just try out SY Zone to better understand this...

Kinda teared up at the end of the story.
Modern Sonic you LIAR! You should have come clean and told classic Sonic that things go downhill from Sonic 3.

Eh well the worse Sonic games are handful IMO, the rest average on 'mediocre'.


so are you

Now that's just rude =/
and a lame retort...
 

NEO0MJ

Member
It isn't you; the final boss is an audio and visual mess. Badly designed; the 3DS version's final boss was designed much better, surprisingly.

Actually I was talking about the final boss of the original sonic the Hedgehog. No rings is just bull. Still, it had really nice music.
The final boss of Generations was so much worse. Somehow Sonic's annoying friends still found a way to mess the game up.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Wow, I totally forgot about the sparks because I don't think I have ever been hit by one. There is always a big enough gap between two of them to just stand still and jump when they get close.

Yeah, but sometimes I pick the wrong spot and get trapped. I beat him in the end, just wish we had more room for error.
 
I was shocked to find out last year that the Sonic 1 final boss was pretty manageable for the dreaded no ring fiesta, really the main problem with these fights is getting the pattern down before they chomp through your lives while you're finding your feet and give you a good old fashioned game over, back to the title screen, screw you.

Sonic 2 on the other hand, bugger me I must've got through the entire game dying just once or twice until Pit fortress zone turned up followed by the gruesome no ring twosome, what an ugly way to end the game, no I still haven't actually beaten it but after Sonic 1's ending (TRY AGAIN!) I think i'm fine.
 

Tizoc

Member
I was shocked to find out last year that the Sonic 1 final boss was pretty manageable for the dreaded no ring fiesta, really the main problem with these fights is getting the pattern down before they chomp through your lives while you're finding your feet and give you a good old fashioned game over, back to the title screen, screw you.

Sonic 2 on the other hand, bugger me I must've got through the entire game dying just once or twice until Pit fortress zone turned up followed by the gruesome no ring twosome, what an ugly way to end the game, no I still haven't actually beaten it but after Sonic 1's ending (TRY AGAIN!) I think i'm fine.

I liked how they did the final stage for Sonic 2, throughout the game you were reliant on rings in case you fucked up, but then you beat these 2 bosses, whose patterns are memorisable, and then you feel like a goddamn boss.
 
So everyone: what is the main appeal to you about Sonic 3 & Knuckles? Sunflower from the wrestling thread asked me this on Twitter, and before I decided to answer I figured it would make a nice discussion topic. I could also direct him to this post and kill two birds with one stone.

Personally, the main thing that draws me to the game is how Sonic/Tails and Knuckles play so differently within both of their levels. It also still amazes me how big some of the acts are for BOTH of them. 645 said it in the Sonic CD/3K thread (and I agree with him) that some of the levels have padding in 3K, but I think 3K is strong enough to be able to overlook that.

There's also the music, but I think everyone knows THAT by now. :p
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
So everyone: what is the main appeal to you about Sonic 3 & Knuckles? Sunflower from the wrestling thread asked me this on Twitter, and before I decided to answer I figured it would make a nice discussion topic. I could also direct him to this post and kill two birds with one stone.

Personally, the main thing that draws me to the game is how Sonic/Tails and Knuckles play so differently within both of their levels. It also still amazes me how big some of the acts are for BOTH of them. 645 said it in the Sonic CD/3K thread (and I agree with him) that some of the levels have padding in 3K, but I think 3K is strong enough to be able to overlook that.

There's also the music, but I think everyone knows THAT by now. :p

Thanks for this Beefers, looking forward to responses.
 
I'll try to help you out Sunny Boy.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles expands upon Sonic 2 without falling into having excess baggage.
Stages being longer is no problem for me, each one is varied in its layout so that you might find a new path to take each time you play and used the concepts introduced to their fullest, Tails and Knuckles not only make for a slightly different playstyle on the Sonic gameplay but also have routes through stages entirely unique to them that play to the strength of their abilities.
The difficulty curve remains pretty steady throughout, it never really gets too tricky and you know, that's fine, I feel Sonic should be more about keeping pace and sticking to the best routes instead of having to toe tip everywhere in fear of pits that would disrupt the whole speed aspect. The levels also incorporate some memorable set pieces be it the earthquake in Marble Garden, the pursuing wall in Hydrocity or the build up to Eggman's boss in Lava Reef.

There's something to be said for how it tells a basic story through simplistic short scenes across the game, they don't feel intrusive and the progressions at the end of each zone help make the world feel more unified, yeah it's a small detail but its just the right level of plot that a platformer should partake in, now let us not speak of what would happen to the series on this front shortly afterwards.

Basically Sonic 3 feels like the 2D Sonic approach perfected, if you don't quite get the whole appeal of Sonic style gameplay then it's not likely to do much for you but otherwise it hits all the right notes.
Also I hear Batista likes it, this may be something I made up however.
 

Sciz

Member
S3&K is the platformer so big it had to be two games to be financially feasible.

It has more bosses than it has levels, and this is a game with 25 levels.

The levels themselves are sprawling masterpieces, each and every one with its own unique flavor, even between the two acts of a single zone. They're complex without being labyrinthine, and work in concert with the physics to inflate the tweaks between characters into wildly different experiences. They branch, diverge, and merge again in ways that seem to defy 2D space, and are riddled with so many secrets that I still occasionally find a new one twenty years later. And it does all this without resorting to the careless, haphazard bits of design that plague every Dimps game.

It has an excellent co-op mode that provides unique incentives to try it.

It has four distinct minigames woven into the main experience.

It tells a coherent story without needing a single word.

Its music is by Michael Jackson.
 
S3&K is the platformer so big it had to be two games to be financially feasible.

It has more bosses than it has levels, and this is a game with 25 levels.

The levels themselves are sprawling masterpieces, each and every one with its own unique flavor, even between the two acts of a single zone. They're complex without being labyrinthine, and work in concert with the physics to inflate the tweaks between characters into wildly different experiences. They branch, diverge, and merge again in ways that seem to defy 2D space, and are riddled with so many secrets that I still occasionally find a new one twenty years later. And it does all this without resorting to the careless, haphazard bits of design that plague every Dimps game.

It has an excellent co-op mode that provides unique incentives to try it.

It has four distinct minigames woven into the main experience.

It tells a coherent story without needing a single word.

Its music is by Michael Jackson.

Here I was typing up my post, and Sciz just completely nails the exact points I was going to make.

*Deletes post draft*
 
Well, Sonic 3 was one of my first Genesis games (alongside Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Spinball and several other titles that I needn't go into). Even without & Knuckles, it felt like the most refined of the set:


  • The levels were larger and more cohesive, with seamless transitions between acts and generally logical transitions between zones - actual cutscenes, which Sonic 1 and 2 barely had (the intro to Scrap Brain Zone 3 and the end of Wing Fortress being the only instances I can think of, endings notwithstanding).
  • The levels felt more complex than either of its predecessors; while all three still eventually boil down to moving from left to right, like most platformers in existence do, Sonic 3 had more of a tendency to loop around on itself, and had more situations where the level mandated you move up or down (as opposed to Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, where the paths generally remained parallel to each other and just had you fall into a lower, slower path if you botched up a jump).
  • More hidden areas with bonus goodies, but even hidden paths entirely.
  • More shields! Shields that DID things! No longer was it just a matter of grabbing a shield to protect your ring count; now you grabbed a shield to protect yourself from the rocket jets on bosses, from electrical attacks by those weird robots in Carnival Night, from ever drowning in a water stage ever again (which got a suprising amount of use, since five of the six zones had water in them, even if only for Act 2 in most cases). Plus, all three had more active effects - double-jumping either had you dash forward without needing to spin dash, do an actual second jump to gain height when Tails wasn't around, or bounce downward directly onto a robot's head with enough force that you'd rebound way up into the air. Sonic even had a move for double-jumping without a shield, although I didn't grasp how useful the Insta-Shield actually was until several years of using the Internet later. Good stuff.
  • An actual save system, so I didn't have to tackle the entire game in one go, and then New Game+ once it was beaten, so I could jump to whatever level I felt like replaying instead of always starting from Angel Island. Nor did I have to get all the emeralds in one go - the New Game+ let me pick them up at my own pace, which was good, because that yellow/purple one was giving me a lot of trouble.
  • More bosses! Instead of fighting one boss at the end of Act 3 or 2, every level had its own unique boss - Eggman only piloting half of them personally. The game even ended with not one boss like Final Zone, and not two like Death Egg, but three bosses in a row, all of them being pretty intense fights to six-year-old me (especially Squeeze Tag Robot/Big Arm, which is the only one of the three I'd say is still a fairly challenging fight, since screwing up your jumps slightly in either direction immediately gets you punished, leaving little room for error).
  • The music quality was seemingly higher. More varied drum samples, for one, but then you also had unique mixes for each act, instead of the entire zone sharing the same theme. The Michael Jackson influence wasn't even a blip on the radar for me at the time, but the fact he was involved just makes the whole thing that much more mind-blowing.
  • Tails could fly at your command, instead of just when he was scrolled off of the screen, meaning playing as him actually opened up new areas, whereas in Sonic 2 you were kind of just playing as Sonic, but with orange fur instead of blue. Heck, he could actually swim, too; something Sonic could never figure out.
  • There was a total graphical overhaul. The levels were much more detailed, graphically. Item boxes were taller. Sonic looked more three-dimensional. Now, looking back on it, Sonic 1, 2 and CD kind of benefitted from the cleaner, more colorful and more geometric look they had going for them, but 3 was still one helluva looker, and I'm not ashamed to say is one of the best-looking games on the system.
Of course, it wasn't without its faults. We went down to six unique zones from Sonic 2's 10/11 (depending on whether you count Sky Chase/Wing Fortress as one zone or two), making for a "shorter" game (although given how long the acts were, it kind of evened out). There were some noticeable road blocks I encountered when trying to get through; the huge wall chase in Hydrocity Act 2 being my first, and then, well, that thing being the second, bigger road block. There were obviously large swathes of the stages that neither Sonic nor Tails could access, making you wonder just what these barriers could be hiding behind them - but you'd never know without cheating! The game was also pretty glitchy, particularly if you started to use the level select to any degree (I distinctly recall going to Marble Garden Act 2, leaving the level and going to another one, and the new level still having Marble Garden Act 2's title card - it wasn't very stable, either). Still, it was undoubtedly the best of the three games.

...and THEN came Sonic & Knuckles. Not only was it a fairly competent game in its own right - still kinda short, and the Aqua Shield's primary use was kinda useless without any water to swim around in, but with a new character whose moveset was different still from Sonic and Tails and let him access areas that not even Tails could get into - but it could lock on to Sonic 3, turning both games into one single meaty campaign whose length definitely outshined Sonic 2's.

Those areas in Sonic 3 that I could never figure out? Turns out those were all for Knuckles, with large chunks of the stages being completely different from those the other two would run through. Angel Island started off similar, but then most of Act 2 was spent underground. Hydrocity had gliding challenges that the others couldn't reach (or clear, even if they could've reached it). Marble Garden had a completely different boss fight. Carnival Night was entirely spent well under the main stage, although disappointingly, it lacked a boss fight (well, unless you knew where to jump to allow Knuckles to play Sonic's Act 2 and then climbed up the suction tube at the end; THEN you could fight CNZ2's normal boss fight). Ice Cap went further underground in Act 2 where Sonic and Tails ran around on the surface. Launch Base Zone 2 took place in an entirely new underground segment, nothing like the Launch Base I was used to, but on par with it in terms of difficulty. This design ethic carried on to S&K, too, although not quite as pronounced initially; only small sections of the stages would differ from Sonic's, with the exception of Lava Reef, which was almost entirely different once again. But then Knuckles hit Hidden Palace, and suddenly Sky Sanctuary was completely different from Sonic's, with a nifty boss gauntlet that the others couldn't get to. It was practically like getting two games from the price of... well, uh, two games, I guess, but never mind that.

Launch Base was a competent final stage, but Death Egg really took the cake. It was even better than Sonic 2's incarnation; where that had been nothing more than two boss fights, here you had the hardest stages ever put into a Sonic game to get through, and it was capped off with a fight against a humongous Eggman mecha with multiple stages to its fight! Took me a while to figure out you could jump over the giant laser, so finally putting that thing in its paces was extremely cathartic. Then I used the New Game+ to cheese my way through the S&K half of the game, collecting all the emeralds from the Sonic 3 half and not checking in to the S&K half's special stage set, letting me play through as Super Sonic. I then used Super Sonic to easily beat the final mecha fight, content that I'd once again beaten the game, only this time a little easie- holy shit is that a secret extra stage whaaaaaaaat

And if you weren't content with locking on to Sonic 3, you could lock on to Sonic 2 and play with the third new character through that too; they even added new things to the old zones to encourage use of his unique abilities, such as the 1-Ups near the end of Chemical Plant Act 1. Plus, if you liked the special stages from Sonic 3, lock it on with literally every other Genesis game ever made and you'll get a unique stage - except for Sonic 1, which gave you 134,217,728 of them. (Yeah, they're just made from different combinations of 128 different corners, but not like I'd noticed that at the time!)

So yeah, that's why S3&K is the best of the lot. Sonic 3 on its own would already be a strong contender, but then S&K came along and fixed most of the remaining little things that didn't sit well with me, making it by far the most ambitious of the three. In essence, it is to the Genesis games what Super Mario Bros. 3 was to the NES Mario games - bigger and better in practically every way imaginable.

(I'm not entirely sure where I fit Sonic CD into this, incidentally. Unlike many, I genuinely love that game, enough that it's a contender with S3&K for top spot, in spite of its somewhat haphazard level design and the race against Metal Sonic in Stardust Speedway - I really hate that race. But of the three Genesis-only titles, it's no contest; S3&K all the way.)
 

qq more

Member
Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the superior game. Everything about it was just so awesome.

Yes, even the ghosts in Sandopolis Act 2.
 
Sonic 2 gets a lot worse as the game goes on. Pretty much everything after Mystic Cave aside from maybe Death Egg is a pretty big drop in quality.

On the other hand, everything in Sonic 3 & Knuckles starting from Lava Reef is one holy shit moment after another, both in terms of level design and spectacle. Sandopolis is the game's biggest drag, but god damn does the game work it's ass off after that to make up for it.
 
Oil Ocean Zone is fine, but I always forget it's in the game until I get to the stage. Metropolis Zone is a bigger pain in the ass than Sandopolis Zone, I will hear no arguments on this. Then that kinda boring flying stage followed by Giant Bottomless Pit Zone and you're like "ugh can this game be over now"

Props on delivering on the promise of the first game, but poor finish, Sonic 2
 

PKrockin

Member
So... Eggmanland.

JvVe9f8.jpg


The end of this game really turned into a QTE-fest, wow.

The daytime stages are actually pretty fun. They're pretty light on alternate paths beyond things like "jump up to this parallel rail that has a moon medal on it" which hurts their replayability though. As for the Werehog, those stages were mostly just boring due to how drawn out they were if you wanted to get the medals you need. The combat was alright but the platforming was made annoying by an unpredictable camera and slightly unreliable controls. I'm a pretty patient person, so others might just give up when they face the reality of having to do 5x as long Werehog stages and spend a considerable amount of time hunting for medals. So while it's one of those games I might revisit and go for better ranks on the daytime stages, I definitely wouldn't recommend it too quickly.

I'll try to help you out Sunny Boy.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles expands upon Sonic 2 without falling into having excess baggage.
Stages being longer is no problem for me, each one is varied in its layout so that you might find a new path to take each time you play and used the concepts introduced to their fullest, Tails and Knuckles not only make for a slightly different playstyle on the Sonic gameplay but also have routes through stages entirely unique to them that play to the strength of their abilities.
The difficulty curve remains pretty steady throughout, it never really gets too tricky and you know, that's fine, I feel Sonic should be more about keeping pace and sticking to the best routes instead of having to toe tip everywhere in fear of pits that would disrupt the whole speed aspect. The levels also incorporate some memorable set pieces be it the earthquake in Marble Garden, the pursuing wall in Hydrocity or the build up to Eggman's boss in Lava Reef.

There's something to be said for how it tells a basic story through simplistic short scenes across the game, they don't feel intrusive and the progressions at the end of each zone help make the world feel more unified, yeah it's a small detail but its just the right level of plot that a platformer should partake in, now let us not speak of what would happen to the series on this front shortly afterwards.

Basically Sonic 3 feels like the 2D Sonic approach perfected, if you don't quite get the whole appeal of Sonic style gameplay then it's not likely to do much for you but otherwise it hits all the right notes.
Also I hear Batista likes it, this may be something I made up however.

I was about to post something like this. The stages also felt bigger with even more possible routes than Sonic 2. Also, each act was distinct instead of the first act repeated with everything rearranged. Ice Cap 1 was all inside a cave and 2 took you outside, Carnival Night loses power and gets flooded in Act 2, etc. I especially appreciate the remixed music for the second act. The new shields and more one-off gimmicks also helped keep the game from getting stale. The game is quite long but never feels its length because it keeps pushing you to new and imaginative areas. In that way it's like Resident Evil 4.

It also has far, far better water sections than 1 or 2. Sonic 1 and 2 constantly throw obstacles in your way to ensure you literally progress as slowly as a snail whereas Sonic 3 is the opposite.
 
I'm also a big sucker for the stage transition idea, where Sonic falls down into Hydrocity or grabs a hold of the Flying Battery. I think that's a nice touch instead of just haphazardly teleporting from mystic caves into oil oceans, and makes the world(or Angel Island in this case) seem a bit more interconnected, and it's all this one huge adventure. I love that Sonic 3 Complete went ahead and showed the Death Egg falling into the volcano, transitioning Sonic 3 into Sonic and Knuckles, with you riding that platform down into Mushroom Hill.
 
Then that kinda boring flying stage followed by Giant Bottomless Pit Zone and you're like "ugh can this game be over now"

Props on delivering on the promise of the first game, but poor finish, Sonic 2
In complete agreement here.

Good music, beautiful background but that stage is evil. I think my poor dad still hasn't beaten that second act.
Chemical Plant Act 2 is actually quite a difficulty spike when you think about it, nothing in Sonic 2 comes close until near the end, except unlike Chemical Plant it's not getting close in a good way.

So... Eggmanland.

JvVe9f8.jpg


The end of this game really turned into a QTE-fest, wow.

The daytime stages are actually pretty fun. They're pretty light on alternate paths beyond things like "jump up to this parallel rail that has a moon medal on it" which hurts their replayability though. As for the Werehog, those stages were mostly just boring due to how drawn out they were if you wanted to get the medals you need. The combat was alright but the platforming was made annoying by an unpredictable camera and slightly unreliable controls. I'm a pretty patient person, so others might just give up when they face the reality of having to do 5x as long Werehog stages and spend a considerable amount of time hunting for medals. So while it's one of those games I might revisit and go for better ranks on the daytime stages, I definitely wouldn't recommend it too quickly.
You forgot to mention the worst thing about Werehog platforming, the occasional loss of his shadow to work from when jumping, those crates over the water man, those damn crates!

I was about to post something like this. The stages also felt bigger with even more possible routes than Sonic 2. Also, each act was distinct instead of the first act repeated with everything rearranged. Ice Cap 1 was all inside a cave and 2 took you outside, Carnival Night loses power and gets flooded in Act 2, etc. I especially appreciate the remixed music for the second act. The new shields and more one-off gimmicks also helped keep the game from getting stale. The game is quite long but never feels its length because it keeps pushing you to new and imaginative areas. In that way it's like Resident Evil 4.

It also has far, far better water sections than 1 or 2. Sonic 1 and 2 constantly throw obstacles in your way and keep you moving through as slow as possible through very long water sections whereas Sonic 3 is the opposite.
I can't believe I fogot to mention my obligatory "game does water without sucking point".
Admittedly so does Sonic 2 but Sonic 3 goes as far to have a zone as flooded as Hydrocity be freaking sweet.
And yeah, the bubble shields are one of the few things in Sonic that give you a hint of the Super Mario style approach of having more options in how you approach certain challenges be it simply a higher jump or laughing in the face of fire.
 
So people tend to like Tails and Knuckles because theyre from the Genesis games/16-bit era before all the shitty friends showed up...what's the consensus on Amy?

jbahrDdLn4g3MW.PNG
 
I'm pretty indifferent to Amy, she offered the most different playstyle in Sonic Advance which might count for something but i'll be damned if I can remember if she actually played well or not.
Otherwise her only role pre Adventure was getting swiped by Metal Sonic and fawning over Sonic before being kidnapped and also immediately after being freed, not really much to go on.

From Adventure onwards, well she's basically just a ramped up and more characterized version of her CD self with the power of voice acting and cutscenes, as I said i'm just pretty much indifferent, she's never bothered me yet I wouldn't really miss her if she just up and vanished.
 

PKrockin

Member
You forgot to mention the worst thing about Werehog platforming, the occasional loss of his shadow to work from when jumping, those crates over the water man, those damn crates!

I actually was going to mention that. I'm good enough at 3D platformers at this point that I didn't really need it but that was stupid. What's worse was trying to figure out if a platform was above you or was on the same vertical level, just farther and larger. Can't adjust the camera, so who knows! I also hate the big sweeping motions the camera makes on the balance beams. One time I got three different motions going across the same beam.

On the upside, the failure music when you clear with an E rank made me laugh my ass off, what a nice touch.

So people tend to like Tails and Knuckles because theyre from the Genesis games/16-bit era before all the shitty friends showed up...what's the consensus on Amy?

Now this I did forget, what the fuck was the point of Amy in Unleashed? She literally did nothing the entire game. Was she just there so Professor Pickle could have someone to say his speech about light and darkness to in the ending?
 

BlackJace

Member
I don't mind Amy as long as she remains like she was in the Advance series: an optional character to play as with traditional mechanics. Come to think of it, I played her quite a lot in Advance 1 and 2.
 

Sciz

Member
So people tend to like Tails and Knuckles because theyre from the Genesis games/16-bit era before all the shitty friends showed up...what's the consensus on Amy?

I like her slower, more acrobatic gameplay style the few times it's come up. It's like a more fleshed out version of using Knuckles' glide to catch massive air off of a badnik in S3&K. As a character, she's always more interesting when she's busy being the spunky self-motivated hammer warrior than she is dangling off of Sonic's neck.

Here I was typing up my post, and Sciz just completely nails the exact points I was going to make.

*Deletes post draft*

You aren't Schala, what is this
 

TheOGB

Banned
Amy's alright, but Sonic Team needs to come up with a real reason to have her around than to be annoying and made fun of
something something sexist

Not a fan of how Minnie Mouse she sounds now, both of her previous VAs were better
 

NEO0MJ

Member
The music for the Death Egg Robot is now stuck in my head thanks to generations. Is the 3DS version any good? I think reception to that was lukewarm at best.

So people tend to like Tails and Knuckles because theyre from the Genesis games/16-bit era before all the shitty friends showed up...what's the consensus on Amy?

jbahrDdLn4g3MW.PNG

She was my fav' character to use in advance, so that's something. Plus, hammer are awesome so she's ok in my book. I also enjoyed playing as her in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle because of how OP she was. Keep her away from cut-scenes, though. Didn't see anything from her post heroes other than generations so I don't know how she was in the other games, though even in that she was annoying.
 

qq more

Member
3DS version is so-so. I have mixed feelings. The only true awful stages are the Dreamcast era levels which are just 2 zones but.. Every other stage are 50% ripped from their respective games in layout. It's pretty lazy.

The rival fights all sucked and the bosses were okay to great. The missions were mostly fun though. And the online racing was a nice addition. It's worth 15 at most because you can easily beat the game in an hour or two with no problem.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Damn, that post up there by Shadow Hog was great, and it generally covered most of the bases with respect to why I like Sonic 3&K. Like... seriously, that last bit of the post is excellent, Shadow Hog. You did great.

The levels' complexity also speaks to why I like S3&K more: they're built with three different characters in mind, and there are several different routes to traverse with tons of hidden goodies like rings and item boxes to uncover. Levels are probably 2-3x larger than those found in previous Sonic games, and that's an absolute treat... especially if you're the sort of player who loves to explore every single nook and cranny, fight every enemy and grab every ring. Every speedrunner would appreciate learning every trick to try to bypass certain parts of levels to get through the game quickly.

Shit, we wouldn't have fun stuff like Sonic the Floathog if it didn't call for the player to have explored the level every inch of the way and learn how to do it faster and faster.

Seamless transitioning was something I was a huge fan of in S3 as well. It ended up making Angel Island far more cohesive and intelligently designed compared to previous areas in the series (even compared to Sonic CD's Time Travel). All of the levels just feel organically thrown together and not just put together in terms of "fast-slow-kinda slow-break" (ie: in terms of how a game designer would want to put levels together). It's an interesting way of telling a story through pure and simple game design as opposed to text. I've gone into how much I love how the game tells its story through character animations time and time again, so I shouldn't probably go into that. But it's just amazing how the levels design and how the game is put together just tells the story of Angel Island itself.

It's one of the few Sonic games where I legitimately enjoy the special stages/minigames. The Slot Machine is useful for accruing lives, and they're essentially like the special stages from Sonic 1 without Chaos Emeralds/Hyper Emeralds at stake. The stage with the electric balls, while not one of my favourite stages, is a decent way of accruing lives and rings. The Gumball Machine is actually one of my favourites because it's an easy way of getting a new shield to play around with or an electric shield to accrue rings easier. And Blue Sphere. Man, we love Blue Sphere in this thread a lot. It's the best Special Stage in the Sonic series. To me, anyway.

Sonic got a new sprite. While I like the other ones in isolation, this works well in Sonic 3's aesthetic more. He had to get something to differentiate himself from Tails and Knuckles, and that's the W-Spin Attack/That Shield thingamajig. Essentially, it increases the AoE of Sonic's spin attack and it makes him immune to damage for a while. Sonic's strongest suit, then, is the shield. And he gets three of them to use. And he uses them better than either Tails and Knuckles ever could. So, Sonic does have his strong suit: defense. With the Fire Shield, you can absorb Fire Damage and walk on lava; Sonic may also horizontally charge through the air/air dash. I kinda like to think it's the beginning of the homing attack/boost. Bubble Shield lets you deflect water attacks and breathe underwater; you may also bounce on enemies. Again, I like to think it's the precursor to the stomp. Finally, the Lightning Shield, my favourite shield, attracts rings, protects vs electrical damage, and double jump. I like to think they took into account everything the shields did in order to create Modern Sonic's moveset. That's why I don't dislike what Modern Sonic can do. It's like having all the shields in one. Meanwhile Tails can fly and evade. Knuckles can glide and climb.

Shadow Hog and Sciz mentioned the music and the ton of bosses, so I won't. Some tracks were reused in Sonic 3D Blast. But I was saying to Bean earlier that out of everything I did in Sonic 3&K, the thing I remember the least was the boss fights. The thing I remember the most is the level design and how awesome it was to go through the levels, and how nicely the levels were aesthetically designed. I love the assets in every single one of the levels because they feel incredibly organic (even if it was synthetic in nature).

Also the letters in the race tracks in MP in Sonic 3 make A(zure Lake), B(alloon Park), C(hrome Gadget), D(esert Palace), and E(ndless Mine). I also love the attention to detail in terms of Angel Island wobbling back and forth when you fight Mecha Sonic as it begins to sink. I love the attention to detail in this game so much. So much attention to piece together something so interesting without using dialogue at all. I feel like I know a lot about those levels and about the story without having to read a ton of text, but just by looking at the level design, level aesthetic, and general animations in the game.

Sonic 3&K isn't my favourite game to speedrun (Sonic 2 is), but it's probably my favourite Genesis game in general. Sonic 3 Complete is a huge treat and tribute to the original game and everyone should play the darn thing.

The music for the Death Egg Robot is now stuck in my head thanks to generations. Is the 3DS version any good? I think reception to that was lukewarm at best.
I knew writing impressions for the 3DS version was a good idea!

Check it out: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62094965&postcount=7998

I played it Day 1 and beat it, dunnno if I actually enjoyed it, but I knew for a fact that it was long enough for me not to want to replay it =p
Hmm mind linking to Bean's vids please?
If I get what you wrote properly; there are certain areas in a stage that ideal for time traveling, but one needs to find them? As such it would mean replaying the game in order to utilize the proper time travel locations one found in a previous playthrough.
His playlist is here

And well, what I do when I play a game for the first time is that I experiment around with the physics I'm given and the level layout I'm given regardless of the fact that I'm timed. I just want to figure things out so I can play the game competently. So I generally do that on a first playthrough rather than a new one. Maybe other people are right when they say that I play games differently from a lot of people...
 
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