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[Dark Schala]

Didn't see the music stuff but what you quoted there did not seem very condescending.

Referring to the "fucking peasants" garbage with respect to rap genre from a few pages back, which I only just saw now because now I actually have time to look at the thread.

The defense of "play the game better, stop sucking at it" when people's arguments aren't even about difficulty makes little sense. I know that qq himself hasn't been having trouble with the game difficulty-wise, so boiling the argument down to, "you guys are being too hard on it because you're playing it terribly" isn't exactly a good rebuttal since that isn't the argument that's even being made, period.

Even Mega Man at least is designed in a way where every single error is your own because the game is designed in a show-and-tell manner without penalizing you the first way through because of its design. You're penalized because you weren't paying attention to how the levels are gradually designed.

Sonic Lost World, by contrast, doesn't even bother to do that.

 

[PKrockin]

I was thinking something along the lines of "it's not that big a deal if a game suddenly penalizes you for not playing in the way it's clearly intended and encouraged to be played" but... I should really play the game myself first so I don't start making assumptions here.

 

[qq more]

the game didn't clearly show you how it intends to play

thats the issue for half of the game lol

 

[Regiruler]

You know, being condescending towards others based on their taste in music (which would perhaps be bannable if you'd posted it in the wrong thread/if a mod saw that and didn't take too kindly to it) or playstyle isn't exactly becoming of you (ie: "stop playing like garbage because I wasn't playing like garbage and that never happened to me so it shouldn't happen to everyone else, gosh!").

Just a heads-up, since it's something that I've started to notice happening more frequently.

I'm not being condescending towards their playstyle. I don't think he/she is stupid. I am fine with a game being hard and letting me find out to do something (to an extent, curse you W101 rotating airplane).
I was lucky in that I didn't have to deal with it, so I was providing explanation as to why they didn't frustrate me. I understand that not everyone is going to be as lucky and therefore would be caught off-guard.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Coming off this recent little discussion replaying Super Mario Galaxy 2 is serving as a lovely polar opposite to Lost World in how new mechanics and various stage elements can be introduced. For example there are spheres that you can hip slam to send flying off and serve as a major staple of the Bowser fights. First of all they have the symbol on them indicting to drop Mario's backside here, then they're first introduced in order to open a giant locked door in a failure free environment within the stage leading up to the first Bowser fight, for good measure there's one more giant door in the stage with three locks to stealthily teach the player that you can alter the spheres flight path depending on the angle you hit it from. Thus when you start the boss battle and the sphere platforms comes into play you immediately know what to do, how to aim it at Bowser's mug and in this case not a single word needed to be said. Hardly mind blowing but coming from Lost World i'm appreciating every element like this all the more. Not that SMG2 shuns word explanations entirely since NPCs will spout useful pointers when necessary. In fairness to Lost World it doesn't always drop the ball in this department.

Okay so really I just want to gush about this game, it makes Galaxy 1 look like a mere NINE outta ten, BOWSER'S THRONE LOOKS LIKE A SEAT BASED FORTRESS AHHHH!
The game is majestic, 3D World has mammoth boots to fill later this month, though it should have the benefit of not being tied to the 120 star format which has a tendency to open the door for a few menial tasks to pad out the star count. That kind of worked for SM64 where the vast majority of the game was random tasks/objectives mixed in with the platforming side of things but they stick out so much more in the Galaxy duo because the vast majority of the game is spent going through glorious straight up platforming obstacle courses to obtain a star so a diversion like using the fire flower to toast some boxes within a time limit for another star sticks out like a sore thumb.
Of course as with most things 3D Mario Sunshine got it worst, blue coins that can be obtusely hidden to pad out that 120 number? oh heck yeah!

Stop what you're doing right now and listen to this remix: http://minuslander.tumblr.com/post/66489895857/possibly-my-favourite-remix-of-mario-sonic-at

I hope this is a sign of fantastical things to come in the soundtrack.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

3D World does something similar I've seen with the first boss. Throughout the stage there are various optional ways you can interact with the bombs throughout the level. They're colored like soccer balls, so that's one visual that indicates you can kick them back. They also do the whole "slowly start blinking then increasing rapidly" they've been doing since LoZ's bombs to indicate when they explode, always an easy warning to players. Then, right before the actual battle with Bowser, there's a gate similar to the SMG2 one, in which you HAVE to destroy with a kicked bomb. A-ha, you now know how to do it, the game has taught you how to do this mechanic in a relatively safe environment, you are ready for the boss fight. Plus, if you're a savvy player and caught on to the whole soccer bomb gimmick earlier, you exploited this knowledge throughout the level and got all the secrets, so there's that for the expert player, or something for the newer players to go back into the level with this new knowledge.

We take that kind of thing for granted, since good game developers like EAD Tokyo, Valve, and Retro Studios do that shit all the time, mostly without you even thinking about it. Hell, the original Portal is really a 2-hour tutorial and most people will never notice cuz its just damn clever and engaging. Its only in the bad games you start to see how easily it could all go wrong and make the experience more frustrating than it really has to be.

 

[Noi]

I've never played Galaxy 2.

Spoiler

I keep meaning to, but I couldn't pick it up when it first came out due to money, I went so long without playing it that the "moment" to get it kinda passed, and every single time I remembered I should play it I went and say that it's still ludicrously priced. Hell, it's New MSRP is STILL $50/$30 used.

 

[BlackJace]

So, in tandem with AA5, a lot of my gaming time has gone into a mobile game. Yes, something I'd never thought I'd say.

But fuck, Marvel Puzzle Quest is some addicting shit, got damn.

 

[Razzer]

I haven't played Galaxy 2 either Noi, don't feel bad. This is despite Galaxy one being one of my favourite games ever. Guess I just never got round to it. Also, what Nocturnowl and JC described is like, the cornerstone of good 'tutorial' design. Especially the test in a safe environment bit. It's ok to let players figure stuff out on their own, just let them do it where they can't be punished for not knowing yet. Another thing Galaxy does well is that various NPCs will be performing an action you need to do, such as bees playfully butt-stomping to let you know that that is a move to try out if you didn't already know. They don't even have to say anything, people will notice.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I haven't played Galaxy 2 either Noi, don't feel bad. This is despite Galaxy one being one of my favourite games ever. Guess I just never got round to it. Also, what Nocturnowl and JC described is like, the cornerstone of good 'tutorial' design. Especially the test in a safe environment bit. It's ok to let players figure stuff out on their own, just let them do it where they can't be punished for not knowing yet. Another thing Galaxy does well is that various NPCs will be performing an action you need to do, such as bees playfully butt-stomping to let you know that that is a move to try out if you didn't already know. They don't even have to say anything, people will notice.

Another thing I like about Galaxy's tutorials is if you get near a NPC, a little text bubble will show up with a very simple instruction "Press Z in the air!", for example. "Shake *wiimote symbol* to spin!" You don't even have to engage them by pressing A(although you could for further information), you get the info you need in a shorthand message without ever taking control away from the player or forcing him to stop.

 

[OMG Aero]

Stop what you're doing right now and listen to this remix: http://minuslander.tumblr.com/post/66489895857/possibly-my-favourite-remix-of-mario-sonic-at

It's a shame that good music is being wasted on the Olympic games.

 

[Noi]

Probably not my brightest idea, but I went and started The Two Thrones today. It's my first time playing both this and Warrior Within, so I figured I should see how the two compare one after the other. A few things immediately pop up:

A. Where Warrior Within, clearly had a (misused) budget, Two Thrones feel very rushed from the start. Character and enemy models seem less detailed, there's re-used animations from WW up the wazoo (even animations for enemies splitting in half when you kill them... even if the enemy doesn't actually split in half, and the FMVs got hit with the ugly stick.

B. Despite not going for the SO EDGY crown WW attempted, TTT has so far had more "gory" stuff than WW. Which leads right into...

C. The Prince's left arm is super uncomfortable to look at. I can't for the life of me find a good, clean screenshot of the in-game model of it, so these will have to do.

[1] [2] [3] [4] [Stylized Art]
[My own phone shot]

Very quickly into the game, the Prince sustains an injury which gives him his whole Dark Prince gimmick to begin with. While the game's artwork always plays down how gory it looks, the in-game model even goes so far as to make little indentations where the chain is melded inside the skin, which while I can imagine could look blurry playing it in SD on a PS2, the HD collection''s higher resolution lets you see every detail that Ubisoft apparently spent time detailing, and I get super uncomfortable every time I catch a glance of it. What's worse is that the Prince very quickly loses his shirt too, so there's literally nothing to distract myself from looking at his fucked up arm. It's seriously messing with my enjoyment of the game.

D. The Dark Prince gimmick sucks. Constantly losing health while mobbed by enemies isn't very fun, and his chain stuff doesn't even deal that much more damage than normal dual-weapon attacks. At least the one similar segment in WW had a cap on how low your health would drain, you can game over as the dark prince if you just sit around doing nothing. It's not very good.

Overall though the game is much better designed than WW, even if it's essentially hallways with little exploration. The combat isn't as busted, speed skills are a great alternative to combat (and the game is actually designed around letting you speed kill most of the enemies), the controls are much more responsive and there's better feedback for stuff like your off-hand weapon breaking, plus it doesn't blatantly re-use all of the traps from Sands of Time and actually comes up with new ones.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I rather liked The Two Thrones. It did away with the hard metal for the Arabian Nights tunes Stuart Chatwood did in the original, gave you interesting stealth/platforming takedowns, brought back the original voice actor/Farah, and still runs on SoT engine(which for me money does the best 3D platforming around, sorry Mario). Dark Prince gimmick stages are pretty blah(I actually prefer WW here with the Dahaka chase sequences), but I really enjoyed the relationship between Prince/Dark Prince throughout the game, and it wraps up in a very satisfying manner. A thoroughly entertaining, mostly well-designed conclusion to the trilogy, I think.

Bosses stink though, watch out for that. And the chariot races! Holy black Jesus the chariot races...

 

[TheOGB]

Aww yisssss

 

[Tizoc]

Yep.

Spoiler

Poor Bentley.

That was unneeded and could've been better done with

Spoiler

LeParadox threatening or having hypnotized Penelope or something cliche like that.
I have this idea that Sly 5 introduces a villain who can manipulate people's emotions or hypnotize them to do their bidding, which resolves the Penelope BS.

 

[Sciz]

SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #47

Song: Livin' in the City
Game: Sonic R
Composer and Lyrics: Richard Jacques
Vocals: TJ Davis

Sonic R's music really needs no introduction; it's Jacques' finest work, and some of the series' best in general. It's the corniest Europop you'll ever hear played dead straight by TJ Davis to such an extent that it blows right on past cheesy and hilarious, stopping at no less than the annals of VGM legend.

Listen, live, love, and keep the dream alive, SonicGAF.

 

[BHZ Mayor]

That was unneeded and could've been better done with

Spoiler

LeParadox threatening or having hypnotized Penelope or something cliche like that.
I have this idea that Sly 5 introduces a villain who can manipulate people's emotions or hypnotize them to do their bidding, which resolves the Penelope BS.

I was hoping it would be something like that the whole time as I was playing through the rest of the game, but nope. As for the game itself, I finished it and now I'm going for the rest of the collectibles and maybe trophies, not sure if I'm gonna do all of them. But I actually enjoyed it. A huge improvement over 2 and 3. I'm even debating on giving it the edge over 1. This game is really everything 2 and 3 should have been. It doesn't drag like 2 and it has the extra incentives for exploring that 3 didn't.

The bosses actually have set phases this time around, although they still suffered a bit from that "start out impossible and gradually adjust to doable as you fail" difficulty, with the exception of the disappointingly easy

Spoiler

QTE

final boss.

The minigames, most of which are still shitty (whack a mole and Guitar Hero-like in 2013? Really?), were only a small portion of the game and weren't frustrating hard (although the Guitar Hero ones did go on a bit too long. Note to developers: Three is the magic number. Don't go past that.).

The ancestors were all pretty cool. They're basically Sly without upgrades, each with their own special abiilties. Salim and Tennessee were my favorites, especially Salim. He has a

Spoiler

magic carpet instead of a paraglider

, his stealth attack is

Spoiler

capturing the enemies in a magic lamp

, his charge attack is

Spoiler

riding a tornado

, and his combo attack is

Spoiler

breathing fire

. Best Cooper confirmed.

All in all, I think Sanzaru did a good job with this effort. They stayed true to the core of the series while keeping the series' bullshit to a minimum. Tbh, I'd like to see them tackle Jak and Daxter, another series with a good first game and two not-so-good sequels.

 

[zeemumu]

SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #47

Song: Livin' in the City
Game: Sonic R
Composer and Lyrics: Richard Jacques
Vocals: TJ Davis

Sonic R's music really needs no introduction; it's Jacques' finest work, and some of the series' best in general. It's the corniest Europop you'll ever hear played dead straight by TJ Davis to such an extent that it blows right on past cheesy and hilarious, stopping at no less than the annals of VGM legend.

Listen, live, love, and keep the dream alive, SonicGAF.

Listening to this while playing Sonic R on a rainy day is amazing.

That was unneeded and could've been better done with

Spoiler

LeParadox threatening or having hypnotized Penelope or something cliche like that.
I have this idea that Sly 5 introduces a villain who can manipulate people's emotions or hypnotize them to do their bidding, which resolves the Penelope BS.

It felt like that was tacked in at the last minute because they ran out of villains. It was really mean-spirited for no reason. I also found LeParadox to be a little anti-climactic for this specific story. For something like Sly 2 or 3, I think he would've worked better. But this was a compilation of Sly's actual history. A villain who was closer to the Coopers would've worked better. I don't know how they would've pulled it off, but if LeParadox was working for a past-version of Clockwerk, it would've been great, and it would've added on a bit more story the fact that Clockwerk is watching your progress from a distance in just about every level, even though that's just an easter egg and has nothing to do with the main story. Speaking of which, do you think that Clockwerk KNEW that Sly was time traveling and just chose not to interfere?

 

[Tizoc]

Eggman, what're you doing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V24kJ7qVTl8

Was the 3DS ver. canceled or delayed?

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

One of the many things I will never get about my government: the way it goes about censorship.

Exploding corpses, decapitation, evisceration, disembowelment, camera's full of gore, chopping people into gelatinous cubes, assault, beating the ever living shit out of people, etc. is all fine.

Flashing boobs? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dario ff]

We've probably talked about this but I hadn't seen confirmation from this until recently...

What's the reward for completing all the missions in Lost World? This.

Apparently nothing? Does anyone know if there's even anything new? Did they just forget to include it?

 

[Nocturnowl]

Well it says "here's a present for you", hopefully they don't mean the message itself.
Lets face it, if it's anything it'll be one of those co-op vehicles no one uses, this after all is a game where the red rings unlock more circus tents that nobody needs or wants.

 

[TheOGB]

Did it turn off the Wii U afterwards?

 

[qq more]

I'm delaying the poll by a week since I didn't get as many responses as I hoped lol


Vote for your favorite Sonic portable zones!

Voting now ends on November 16th 11:59PM

 

[Lightning Lord]

qq more just really wants people to vote more for altitude limit and blue marine so he can rage harder

 

[Meccanical]

qq more just really wants people to vote more for altitude limit and blue marine so he can rage harder

I didn't vote because i didn't know what to vote for.

Now I do.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I didn't vote because i didn't know what to vote for.

Now I do.

.

 

[qq more]

you can just vote the games you've played and ignore the rest lol

 

[Nocturnowl]

you can just vote the games you've played and ignore the rest lol

In that case I'm in, Jungle Zone is where its at.

 

[qq more]

I think I should note the lack of requirements in the poll so everyone knows they can vote easier... lol

 

[AniHawk]

started writing a sonic lost world (wii u) review and stopped early on. it was spurred on largely by the discussion in the lost worlds thread and i felt a need to better explain where i was coming from and what i liked and didn't like about the game.

then i was tired and then i stopped. i'd like to finish it. lost worlds is an average sort of game for very peculiar reasons. and i mean, it has insane highs and lows that are almost at odds with each other in how they're designed. it's interesting to try and dissect those sorts of games almost as it is the ones you enjoy. i actually find it harder to talk about the things i like because it feels inherently obvious to why such and such works. so there's a greater challenge, but the payoff is learning more about yourself and your tastes.

qq more, i wish i knew more about portable sonic, but i only really started with the gba games.

 

[Lightning Lord]

I think I should note the lack of requirements in the poll so everyone knows they can vote easier... lol

So what you're saying is, as far as voting in the poll goes, the sky is the

Spoiler

altitude

limit.

 

[TheOGB]

qq more, i wish i knew more about portable sonic, but i only really started with the gba games.

Same here, but I went and voted for the Advance and Rush games first, then just checked what would sound like a cool, varied level list.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

I'm delaying the poll by a week since I didn't get as many responses as I hoped lol


Vote for your favorite Sonic portable zones!

Voting now ends on November 16th 11:59PM

Oops, sorry, forgot to get around to it. Mostly voted based on what would make a nice variety of stage motifs and gimmicks for everything after the first two Master System games since I haven't played the DS games in a while and never really spent much time with everything between those and Sonic 1/2 SMS.

 

[Seven Force]

Voted in the poll.

 

[qq more]

Wow, 8+ new votes. Thanks GAFers and lurkers!

Also who was it that literally voted every first stage twice? lol

 

[PKrockin]

I don't think I've played a single portable Sonic game besides Sonic Battle and the Tiger Handheld Electronics Sonic 2.

Incidentally, if I make pasta and then drink the water I made it with, how stupid is that idea on a scale from "only kind of stupid" to "i accidentally got my sister pregnant"? I'm running out of potable water here.

Nevermind, I found someone with a few gallons to spare.

 

[Meccanical]

Incidentally, if I make pasta and then drink the water I made it with, how stupid is that idea on a scale from "only kind of stupid" to "i accidentally got my sister pregnant"? I'm running out of potable water here.

If you are fine with drinking pasta water I guess...go for it.

 

[Razzer]

SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #47

Song: Livin' in the City
Game: Sonic R
Composer and Lyrics: Richard Jacques
Vocals: TJ Davis

I never played Sonic R, yet these tunes are still some of my faves. So optimistic, so carefree, much like Sonic I guess. But really it's the fact that the entire soundtrack is just 'FUCK YEAH LET'S EXPERIMENT AND STUFF' No shits given, lets see what we can come up with that's crazy. And you arrive at this. Games music pushing it's boundaries man, it's a beautiful thing.

 

[Dario ff]

Super cool find by Hinchy on Retro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

 

[TheOGB]

Wow, that was pretty immediately apparent, haha. Awesome.

 

[PKrockin]

I really don't think I need to say anything about Sonic R's music, do I? Besides the fact that it's mankind's greatest creation.

 

[Guess Who]

Super cool find by Hinchy on Retro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

Well, now we know once and for all who wrote Ice Cap's music.

 

[Sciz]

Super cool find by Hinchy on Retro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

holy shi-

aha

ahahahaha

All this time people have been trying to link it to one MJ track or another and it ends up being a straight cover of one of Buxer's.

No wonder this game has lingering legal issues.

 

[TheOGB]

One step closer to Taxman port.

BELIEVE

 

[Dark Schala]

Guess Who, did you finish Sonic Lost World 3DS yet?

...do you even want to...?

Super cool find by Hinchy on Retro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OWC5Hosv8

LOL. Oh wooooooow. That's wonderful. So now we know where it really came from, and it was slightly unexpected.

started writing a sonic lost world (wii u) review and stopped early on. it was spurred on largely by the discussion in the lost worlds thread and i felt a need to better explain where i was coming from and what i liked and didn't like about the game.

then i was tired and then i stopped. i'd like to finish it. lost worlds is an average sort of game for very peculiar reasons. and i mean, it has insane highs and lows that are almost at odds with each other in how they're designed. it's interesting to try and dissect those sorts of games almost as it is the ones you enjoy. i actually find it harder to talk about the things i like because it feels inherently obvious to why such and such works. so there's a greater challenge, but the payoff is learning more about yourself and your tastes.

Yeah, I find it difficult to write about a game I really really like sometimes. But those are sometimes the hardest long-form reviews/impressions that I usually write. I like the GotY stuff because I can get what I like about a game out despite it being a smaller space, even if I do wax poetic about the game at times or if I do ramble on about a game at times. But it's much easier to point out stuff you don't like because you know your tastes and it should be obvious to those who do know your tastes why you like certain parts of a game, or why you like a game as a whole.

It's much easier to dissect parts of a flawed game or a bad game for me, because I know why certain things don't work for me, or why they wouldn't work for the average player. And I guess while doing this, you learn about what you like in a game, or what you don't like. Or even what you like now that it's implemented correctly, or what you dislike now that it was implemented poorly. Perhaps you may learn more about video game design in general because it's just another game to add to the repertoire of games you've played.

Speaking of which... I finished Sonic Lost World.

I... might write impressions, I guess. In this thread, though. I'm not quick to write the game off because it has stuff I'd like to see in further games, but it does quite a bit of weird stuff design-wise that leaves me scratching my head. I kinda want to echo Bean and say, "Well that game happened," because that's how I feel right now. I don't find it incredibly remarkable. I think it has some interesting ideas at times, but overall, it just feels like an average product with a strong opening and a very weak finish. I'm going to bed.

Man, looking back at some of the impressions I wrote in 2011/early 2012 like El Shaddai, Radiant Historia, Tales of Graces f, and Skyward Sword, I'm glad I changed my writing style quite a bit since then.

 

[AniHawk]

considering those are impressions, i don't really see a problem. and honestly, those are really in-depth and make sense. for me, impressions should be stream of consciousness sort of things anyway. it's okay if they jump from topic to topic- unless you're talking about uncharted 2. i think if i knew how that one would have ended up, i would have actually been more critical of the game.

whenever i do a 'review' i try to focus a little more, but i usually wind up in the same pitfalls. i'm not a good writer, so whenever i resort to 'things' and 'stuff' in really basic language, it's me poking fun at myself and the absurdity of taking it too seriously.

i know my writing has improved, but i don't think it has in recent years. there's a huge jump between 2003 and 2013, but not so much between 2009 and 2013. a lot of my 'reviews' are essentially first drafts. they're full of typos, grammatical errors, and run-on sentences. i do try and edit them sometimes, especially if i run across something years later.

 

[Guess Who]

Guess Who, did you finish Sonic Lost World 3DS yet?

...do you even want to...?

At this point I'm at Sky Road Act 2 and taking time off to avoid further Asteroid Wisp-induced bouts of madness. I'll finish it, eventually - I have to if I want to review it. But some of the stages in this game are just so bad

 

[TheOGB]

Thank you, Schala, for reminding me how awesome El Shaddai was. Gonna replay that this week.

 

[Noi]

Just beat PoP Two Thrones.

Good game. Easily makes up for putting me through Warrior Within to get here, Hard mode wasn't complete nonsense like WW's, Speed Kills + Time Reversal are super fun, Dark Prince segments still blew but were compensated by everything else. I didn't even think the boss battles were that bad (fuck the Swordsman + Axeman one tho).

Just need to beat it two more times on easier difficulties...