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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT2 Battle|

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qq more

Member
SA1 and SA2 are amazing, and anyone who tells you otherwise cannot defeat me in Yu-Gi-Oh! cards so yeah.
WELL YEAH?! I CAN TOTALLY BEAT YOU IN YU GI OH...wait... I've never played card games.

Um


you heard nothing!

What's everyone favoruite or rather most tolerated to worst alt gameplay?

For me its:
SA1 Gamma 7/10
SA1 Treasure Hunting 7/10
Werehog 6/10
Amy 6/10
SA2 alt gameplay 5/10
Big 4/10

SA1 Tails - 8/10
SA1 Knuckles 8/10
SA1 Amy - 7/10 (I used to hate it, but after replaying it, it grew on me)
SA1 Big - 3/10 (Fishing isn't too bad but it really broke the flow of the game. Pointless padding... at least Big is hilarious!)
SA1 Gamma - 9/10 (I don't know how many times I've replayed Windy Valley just to get the best possible combo. Sooooo fun!)

SA1's alt gameplay is mostly fun, though a bit flawed in spots.

SA2 Tails - 5/10 (His levels are so boring and slow. I don't like how heavy and clunky the mech feels either. Also the sand level is god awful and likes glitching up on me)
SA2 Knuckles - 4/10 (Major downgrade from SA1's. It's more restrictive and the levels mostly drags on forever)
SA2 Eggman - 7/10 (Gameplay is the same but never ran into glitches and his levels are usually fine. Still kind of too slow and clunky, but it's fun)
SA2 Rouge - 3/10 (Who the heck designed half of these levels? AUGH)

SA2's shooting alt gameplay is 2 steps back and 1 step forward. The emerald hunting stages on the other hand is just two big steps back, period.

Werehog - ...I don't know, it's just not for me. 5/10? If I like that kind of gameplay it'd probably been higher. It's hard to judge it. But it IS the reason I can't get into Unleashed so maybe that 5/10 is justified.

Sonic 06 anyone ever - no
 
It's okay, qq more. Nobody knows how to play Yu-Gi-Oh!. Anytime there's an opportune moment for drama, the rulebook goes out the window, making the whole ordeal confusing as hell.

Also your soul will be consumed if you lose, so, y'know, don't start.
 

TheOGB

Banned
qq more's scores for the alt gameplay are pretty much the same as mine, though for some reason I'm more forgiving of the werehog even though I really shouldn't be.
 
I would think that liking character action games/hack and slash stuff would weaken the Werehog rating further if anything.
When your combat focused gameplay has combat that isn't actually fun then you might just have an issue, the awkward platforming antics and small scale fetch questing is the rancid cherry on top of the shit sundae, said sundae is also filled with those damn wasps.
It's not enjoyable in its simplicity, it's certainly not deep, it's like the purest filler seen in Sonic alt gameplay by taking up the majority of the game itself and each level dragging on and on, all that lovely night time music wasted here.
The more I think about it the more i'm thinking it could be the worst (barring 06 stuff, I ain't even going there) but it has been a while since I last played the stages.
Funnily enough it also had the most potential to be decent out of all the alternative gameplay styles but oh well.

I'm just going to say that Gamma's shooting sections and the treasure hunting (even SA2 style) are the only ones I might get some actual enjoyment out of.
Amy's gameplay had a bit of potential but the odd momentum and a mere 3 stages wasn't enough to really make an impact, at least if you didn't care for her zero stalking stages it was short.

...I think this post might have come off a bit too mean spirited towards the werehog than I actually feel, let it be known I don't have burning rage against it, I just have no desire to touch it again outside of Sonic Blast style curiosity.
 

Broach

Banned
I would think that liking character action games/hack and slash stuff would weaken the Werehog rating further if anything.
When your combat focused gameplay has combat that isn't actually fun then you might just have an issue, the awkward platforming antics and small scale fetch questing is the rancid cherry on top of the shit sundae, said sundae is also filled with those damn wasps.
It's not enjoyable in its simplicity, it's certainly not deep, it's like the purest filler seen in Sonic alt gameplay by taking up the majority of the game itself and each level dragging on and on, all that lovely night time music wasted here.
The more I think about it the more i'm thinking it could be the worst (barring 06 stuff, I ain't even going there) but it has been a while since I last played the stages.
Funnily enough it also had the most potential to be decent out of all the alternative gameplay styles but oh well.

I thought the level design was decent for the most part tough, even tough plattforming was akward, I got used to it tough, it was more dated if anything. The combat had quite a few moves and the animations were neat, but there was nothing to it overall.

I guess I found it...mundane, was never really annoyed at it like other people. It was like playing one of those LEGO games but blander and less variety.
 

qq more

Member
If the Werehog stages were short then it would've been acceptable to me. It's the definition of padding play time for the sake of it (SEGA even admitted it themselves before the game came out.)
 
I thought the level design was decent for the most part tough, even tough plattforming was akward, I got used to it tough, it was more dated if anything. The combat had quite a few moves and the animations were neat, but there was nothing to it overall.

I guess I found it...mundane, was never really annoyed at it like other people. It was like playing one of those LEGO games but blander and less variety.

It shifts between mundane and "what the bloody hell?", like when you've got those balancing beams with the spiked edges, the crates bobbing in the instant death water with no shadow to indicate Sonic's position in the air and the overall rigid feel of his movement as relating to platforming.

I think calling the level design decent might be too generous, or it could actually be decent but the games control lets it down.
Encounter design is pretty poor as well with a less than thrilling enemy lineup, never forget near the end of Eggmanland when you have multiple big dudes sending out shockwaves and they can stunlock you into being repeatedly knocked down.
I think Werehog stages took a bunch on concepts from environment scaling platformers and the various expected hack and slash tropes including obligatory rage/power up mode, threw them into a blender without any regards as to how they worked and left us with a right mess.

Damn if we keep this up i'm going to have to actually play some stages again and refresh my memory, this was not a good trip down memory lane when I did this with Eggmanland last year.
 
I am not a big fan of the treasure hunting but the Eggman stages are usually fun for all the wanton destruction you cause. I never got to play as Amy or Big so I can't say how those stages are.
 

Broach

Banned
It shifts between mundane and "what the bloody hell?", like when you've got those balancing beams with the spiked edges, the crates bobbing in the instant death water with no shadow to indicate Sonic's position in the air and the overall rigid feel of his movement as relating to platforming.

Damn I blocked this out of my memory

I think calling the level design decent might be too generous, or it could actually be decent but the games control lets it down.
Encounter design is pretty poor as well with a less than thrilling enemy lineup, never forget near the end of Eggmanland when you have multiple big dudes sending out shockwaves and they can stunlock you into being repeatedly knocked down.
I think Werehog stages took a bunch on concepts from environment scaling platformers and the various expected hack and slash tropes including obligatory rage/power up mode, threw them into a blender without any regards as to how they worked and left us with a right mess.

I woudn't call it a mess, they just had no effort making it anything above work above playable. I also found the enemies to be paced pretty alright. It's not like you went room after hallway after room with no landmarks indicating where you are right now.

Damn if we keep this up i'm going to have to actually play some stages again and refresh my memory, this was not a good trip down memory lane when I did this with Eggmanland last year.

Definitly the worst part of the Werehog
 

TheOGB

Banned
That maniacal laughter

I just bought Luigi's Mansion 2 on the eShop and immediately regretted it when I saw it was 6000+ blocks :|
 

TheOGB

Banned
It's a 4GB. It's not a huge problem--I had over 10,000 blocks beforehand--I just didn't expect it to be over half my available space. :p

I did it for the Club coins

And it works for me because I'm lazy and don't feel like rummaging through my desk to switch games :V
 
What's everyone favoruite or rather most tolerated to worst alt gameplay?

SA1 Tails
Amy
SA1 Knuckles
Werehog
Gamma
SA2 shootan
SA2 huntan
Big

I kinda in theory like what they had set up for Shadow in 06 outside of the vehicles, it does a nice job of differentiating him from Sonic while still feeling like it grew from that base, and without having to resort to shootbang. Would have been okay in a better game and without the vehicles. Silver is kind of interesting and could have been okay in a competently made game but just doesn't really work as it stands. Both would probably be towards the top if they weren't in such a bad game.
 
It's a 4GB. It's not a huge problem--I had over 10,000 blocks beforehand--I just didn't expect it to be over half my available space. :p

I did it for the Club coins

And it works for me because I'm lazy and don't feel like rummaging through my desk to switch games :V

Bah, even for the coins I wouldn't do it, especially with Nintendo lol.
 
I was forced to make room for Awakening, because I could not find that damn game in the stores. Fucking NoA, man.
Well at least NoE have had plenty of time to prepare stock, so much time that my hype is sort of dead, still it's pretty impressive how the choice of release date took my hype from "most wanted game in 2013" to "oh hang on, it's finally out next week".


It totally is.
 

Village

Member
If we are discussing the levels in sa1 and 2, I think sa2 is superior

If I may, I decided to replay both of these games, the game cube versions.

Here is my assessment.

Ahem..

Why did everyone magically forget that Amy's gamma's and big's stages were kinda bad. Really bad, to be quite honest, the egg man stages in sa2 were better than gama's especially the last ones. Sonic stages in Sa1 along with another problem I will mention later , were weird. In sonic adventure 2 with sonic and shadow the stages aside from that weird sonic stage with the weird puzzle at the end( you know what I am talking about) and the pyramid stages most of the stages, let you feel... well like you were rolling around at the speed of sound. Too many of the stages in sa1 made you just stop, it was jarring. I don't particularly mind changes in gameplay, for many games they are a good change of pace., but these abrupt stops were quite jarring.

Next the issue I kind of addressed earlier, the reason I liked sonic adventure two stages more than one is because they were , for the most part different. Sonic in SA1 essentially ran though everyone's stages. And had unique stages all to his own, in Sa2 while there are some stages that share themes, the set up is completely different.I feel like the characters are contributing to something rather than just tacked on.




Next, Tails should not have been playable in sonic adventure 1 or sonic adventure 2. Tails entire campaign in sonic adventure one was basically following sonic around, and you get to fly a plane once. In sonic adventure two where they could have let him run around and have unique stages, they decided to exclude him, when fans roared and they decided to include him they gave him a walker ship thingy like eggman and decided to have him do missions like that. That ship thing would have been alright for 1 many 2 missions( the space ones) but why is he in that thing the entire campaign. Here is my thing, if Sega makes a new sonic game, and say they let other characters like shadow be playable, if they don't have sepreate stages don't event put them in the game.

Back in the 2d days different characters had different things they could do , which would allow them to explore stages differently. But now a days characters are WAY faster than others, and stages are a bit more linear. If they give tails or shadow different stages, that they could solve their own way, that would be fine but if its just sonic's stages over again running through as a different character. What is the point? Offer me new gameplay experiences,use the character potential for different gameplay mechanics to your advantage, i just don't wanna run through sonic's campaign as a new guy.

Also on the treasure hunting stages are way better than people give them credit for, in both games, They need to be fleshed out a bit more though.





While I am ripping on the adventures, Let me rip on some other sonic games.



Sonic heroes, is the worst parts on sonic 06 to me. Just forcing two other characters you don't even want to be involved with slowing down game play.



Shadow was terrible, and not for just being bad, It was terrible because it was a good Idea squandered, that could have been "easily" executed, and almost everyone saw it. A shadow game more focused around combat than running , that sounds very interesting, too bad they jammed running in there. If they attempt that again , I hope they go a more DMC route and just stick to mostly combat and have the running parts just be a way to get from area to area.

Speaking of shadow the hedgehog

Why can tails have a plane with guns and missiles, and eggman have a war ship and a death star. But shadow picks up a gun , the least threatening out of the things I just named and all of a sudden its taboo. And sonic can snow board and tails can fly a plane, but shadow decides he is into motorcycles its wrong for some reason? And yes I know shadow is still super popular , but still it annoys me when people make bullshit excuses for " i like these characters better"




Sonic 06.... its bad and it had some good ideas. And it was rushed, we know the deal.



Unleashed, should have kept it as the world adventure thing.



Generations. Despite all I just said, this game would be the only game it would be acceptable in the new age of sonic to have another character play over sonic's stages, and you could sell as DLC and no one would care. I have played a shadow the hedgehog mod for generations pc that lets you ride shadow's motorcycle on the snowboard parts, and do tricks on it. YOU COULD SELL DLC AS SO MANY EFFING CHARACTERS AND NOW ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO ARGUE AGAINST YOU. SEGA MARKET YO SHIT.

Sorry this tangent went longer than expected.
 

qq more

Member
oh my fucking god village


and to answer your shadow question:

He looks FUCKING stupid with the guns and motorcycles, they try to make him all "edgier" with the stupidiest ideas. Tails with a "gun" works because he's in a mech, he's builds machines so it's logical. Shadow has power and speed, he doesn't need ANY of those.

EDIT: I apologize for my rudeness, I'm just not feeling myself today. And I'm not really a fan of this kind of discussion.
 

Village

Member
oh my fucking god village

Sorry... ehehe
oh my fucking god village


and to answer your shadow question:

He looks FUCKING stupid with the guns and motorcycles, they try to make him all "edgier" with the stupidiest ideas. Tails with a "gun" works because he's in a mech, he's builds machines so it's logical. Shadow has power and speed, he doesn't need ANY of those.

I hear you right...

But here is my rebuttle

Dante_4.png


So not only would guns and swords be an interesting action game play mechanic, it makes him look cool. Because looking cool isn't bad at all actually. Thats sonic's whole thing. Powerful characters can use weapons, it makes their job easier and they can channel their power through their weapons.

As far the motarcyle goes, While i can agree with you,

1) why cant shadow have a hobby

2) explain to me sonic's need to snowboard.

3) he could stick chaos emeralds in it and have a time traveling motarcycle, so there.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
...

Please learn how to format better. I can't even get past some of this stuff. Regardless:

Sonic heroes, is the worst parts on sonic 06 to me. Just forcing two other characters you don't even want to be involved with slowing down game play.

Shadow was terrible, and not for just being bad, It was terrible because it was a good Idea squandered, that could have been "easily" executed, and almost everyone saw it. A shadow game more focused around combat than running , that sounds very interesting, too bad they jammed running in there. If they attempt that again , I hope they go a more DMC route and just stick to mostly combat and have the running parts just be a way to get from area to area.
With respect to the bolded... Is that right?

Are you sure everyone saw it? Are you sure people just didn't like it by virtue of simply being a poorly-designed game with a character that should have been done away with and mechanics that aren't useful to the player at all? It's simply an odd platformer with mechanics and gameplay details that do not work hand-in-hand very well.

As for your Sonic Heroes bit, I don't even comprehend...
 

Village

Member
...

Please learn how to format better. I can't even get past some of this stuff. Regardless:


With respect to the bolded... Is that right?

Are you sure everyone saw it? Are you sure people just didn't like it by virtue of simply being a poorly-designed game with a character that should have been done away with and mechanics that aren't useful to the player at all? It's simply an odd platformer with mechanics and gameplay details that do not work hand-in-hand very well.

As for your Sonic Heroes bit, I don't even comprehend...


No... The shadow the hedgehog should have been dmc thing comes up alot actually. Like seriously... A LOT.

As far as done away with, thats an entire other issue. Which my stance is, you learned more from shadow alive than dead. Dead he would have been a cleche and not a good one at that espically since the plot of sa2 was.. well stupid. Because amy talking to him magically convinces him to change his mind.
After he comes back , not only does he learn to forgive and forget, he even learns how to make friends.

A dead guy cant do either of those things, shadow is one of the few sonic characters to actually learn a lesson. Just because you grew up in a shitty situation , doesn't mean you cannot over come it, and become a better person. He is a character who stuck a fork into the status quo that is pre-dreamcast sonic characters.
 

qq more

Member
I hear you right...

But here is my rebuttle

So not only would guns and swords be an interesting action game play mechanic, it makes him look cool. Because looking cool isn't bad at all actually. Thats sonic's whole thing. Powerful characters can use weapons, it makes their job easier and they can channel their power through their weapons.

As far the motarcyle goes, While i can agree with you,

1) why cant shadow have a hobby

2) explain to me sonic's need to snowboard.

3) he could stick chaos emeralds in it and have a time traveling motarcycle, so there.

1) What hobby? I don't recall Shadow going on about guns and motorcycles. The whole gun/motorcycle thing is just tacked on for the sake of making the game gritty. It's just a piss poor uncreative attempt at making him "cool" (as if he isn't already edgy). Besides, all these guns/motorcycles are really generic and realistic. It's sooooo out of place.

2) I don't get this comparison. Isn't this just a level specific gimmick that doesn't even last a minute? Why would anyone get upset at Sonic using a snowboard? Besides, snowboards fits in the context of the games.

3) what

No... The shadow the hedgehog should have been dmc thing comes up alot actually.

As far as done away with, thats an entire other issue. Which my stance is, you learned more from shadow alive than dead. Dead he would have been a cleche and not a good one at that espically since the plot of sa2 was.. well stupid. Because amy talking to him magically convinces him to change his mind.
After he comes back , not only does he learn to forgive and forget, he even learns how to make friends.

A dead guy cant do either of those things, shadow is one of the few sonic characters to actually learn a lesson.

I'm lost... She was talking about how poorly designed the gameplay mechanics are and you're going on about plot which is irrelevant to what she was talking about..

????????
 

Village

Member
1) What hobby? I don't recall Shadow going on about guns and motorcycles. The whole gun/motorcycle thing is just tacked on for the sake of making the game gritty. It's just a piss poor uncreative attempt at making him "cool" (as if he isn't already edgy). Besides, all these guns/motorcycles are really generic and realistic. It's sooooo out of place.

2) I don't get this comparison. Isn't this just a level specific gimmick that doesn't even last a minute? Why would anyone get upset at Sonic using a snowboard? Besides, snowboards fits in the context of the games.

3) what



I'm lost... She was talking about how poorly designed the gameplay mechanics are and you're going on about plot which is irrelevant to what she was talking about..

????????

She had mentioned that he should been done away with, I touched on that. I am not arguing that that game poorly designed gameplay. It did. That part is right and on the money.

Next, so a fighter plane with guns isn't realistic? Also sonic has used snowboards in quite a few games, and that is the question why don't they get upset. How is a snowboarding fitting of the setting. Besides making the character look cool. Like say... the entirety of sonic's character. Aso Weren't you complaining about the motorcycle being to real, but a plane with guns ( which is a real thing ) is ok.
The last part was more a joke.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Eh. Forget it.

I shall leave this subject alone since it'll be drawn along for pages and pages and the conversation will go around in circles. I'm not looking to getting into anything reminiscent of that insipid character design thread at all tonight.

Drop it.
 

qq more

Member
She had mentioned that he should been done away with, I touched on that. I am not arguing that that game poorly designed gameplay. It did. That part is right and on the money.

Next, so a fighter plane with guns isn't realistic? He has used snowboards in quite a few games, and that is the question why don't they get upset. How is a snowboarder fitting of the setting. Weren't you complaining about the motorcyle being to real?

The last part was more a joke.

Um... okayyy.

The tornado 2 doesn't look realistic though. And it isn't gritty either, there's a major difference. And yes, I know Sonic used a snowboard in quite a few games. And it fits because it's a god damn snow level (did you seriously ask how a snowboard fits in the settings of a SNOW level?? really?). You also use a snowboard to go down slopes... Sonic games are about momentum and speed, so naturally there's going to be a lot of slopes. That's why snowboarding fits in the context of the games. It's not like the game is focused on that minor segment anyways!

Also the idea of Sonic/Shadow needing a motorcycle is stupid because they are faster than those themselves, plus motorcycles doesn't fit in the gameplay of the games.


Anyways I'm done. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in and don't think it's wise to argue further because it'll just ruin the thread.
 

Village

Member
Sure fine.

Then something less.. crazy I suppouse.

While I enjoy all of sonic's voices ( I don't get why people hated Griffith) , I don't ever feel like sonic is talking, when sonic is talking when it comes to sonic's most recent voice.

Has anyone else felt like this towards one the sonic characters voices, like something was...wrong. But you cannot quite put your finger on why you cant see this voice coming out of this characters mouth.
 

qq more

Member
Sure fine.

Then something less.. crazy I suppouse.

While I enjoy all of sonic's voices ( I don't get why people hated Griffith) , I don't ever feel like sonic is talking, when sonic is talking when it comes to sonic's most recent voice.

Has anyone else felt like this towards one the sonic characters voices, like something was...wrong. But you cannot quite put your finger on why you cant see this voice coming out of this characters mouth.

I wasn't a fan of Griffith at first because his voice was kind of.. emotionless? At least in the case of 06. I think he got really good in Brawl and Unleashed though. Shame that was his last major performance as Sonic. I ended up liking his VA.

And yeah, I kind of agree about the new VA... something about it is off. It's not bad, but something does sound off... On the bright side Tails' VA is great and they kept Mike Pollock for Eggman.
 

Village

Member
I wasn't a fan of Griffith at first because his voice was kind of.. emotionless? At least in the case of 06. I think he got really good in Brawl and Unleashed though. Shame that was his last major performance as Sonic. I ended up liking his VA.

And yeah, I kind of agree about the new VA... something about it is off. It's not bad, but something does sound off... On the bright side Tails' VA is great and they kept Mike Pollock for Eggman.

Mike Pollock IS Eggman. And I like tails's VA, though I kinda wish they would age him a bit I wouldn't mind him having a boy voice. I also like creams VA change as well.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
While I enjoy all of sonic's voices ( I don't get why people hated Griffith) , I don't ever feel like sonic is talking, when sonic is talking when it comes to sonic's most recent voice.

Has anyone else felt like this towards one the sonic characters voices, like something was...wrong. But you cannot quite put your finger on why you cant see this voice coming out of this characters mouth.
Ah, now a good subject~

I liked Griffith, myself. I didn't mind him at all, really. I like both the JP and the last two EN voices for him. Generally, the casting's been alright.

Tails's voice in the Adventure games, though, oy vey. The new voice actress for him is a lot better. And I kind of wish they didn't change Shadow's voice. The current VA is a very talented VA, but I liked Shadow's older timbre a lot better. You can just look at a character and see whether or not the timbre would fit their character and design, you know what I mean?

I feel kind of sensitive to this just because I do a lot of phonological studies so I can come up with voices I like or voices that suit people. It's neat.
 

qq more

Member
Mike Pollock IS Eggman. And I like tails's VA, though I kinda wish they would age him a bit I wouldn't mind him having a boy voice. I also like creams VA change as well.

lol I just said that though! But yeah, Eggman's VA is fantastic. Probably my favorite of the entire cast.
 
Pollock is a fucking god amongst men in modern video game voice acting. Really happy they had the common sense to a) give him good, nay, great material and b) not flush him along with the other 4Kids actors.
 

Village

Member
Ah, now a good subject~

I liked Griffith, myself. I didn't mind him at all, really. I like both the JP and the last two EN voices for him. Generally, the casting's been alright.

Tails's voice in the Adventure games, though, oy vey. The new voice actress for him is a lot better. And I kind of wish they didn't change Shadow's voice. The current VA is a very talented VA, but I liked Shadow's older timbre a lot better. You can just look at a character and see whether or not the timbre would fit their character and design, you know what I mean?

I feel kind of sensitive to this just because I do a lot of phonological studies so I can come up with voices I like or voices that suit people. It's neat.

I understand , the new shadow guy while talented is just I dunno.. Don patch. That is all I hear, its the same issue when I hear steve blum do a voice all I hear is Wolverine.

lol I just said that though! But yeah, Eggman's VA is fantastic. Probably my favorite of the entire cast.

No.. I mean eggman has been hiding among us.


damnimage_zps6f2d4495.png
 
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