Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Wut? There's a new Ratchet game coming later this year.
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Wut? There's a new Ratchet game coming later this year.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I think there's a lot of ways to "fix" boost. I kind of like the idea that the "run button" starts out like sort of a Mega Man X dash move that breaks in to a sprint. Going back to that as an example, Hulk Ultimate Destruction kind of does this. But what if the dash was sort of like a burst, and the burst is what damaged enemies? Like a sonic boom, and that energy wave or whatever blows enemies away and damages them.
Then again, for as fast as you are running while boosting, it is useful to be invincible, or else you run in to a situation like the Sonic Advance games where you're moving too fast to react to hazards and are constantly taking cheap hits. F-Zero GX works because it gives you a health meter and hazards in that only damage you very small amounts. It's just they add up quickly because you're moving so fast.
That would mean a different health system for Sonic, but at that point we're getting in to territory where you are changing Sonic so much you might as well just make it a game starring a different character.
Eugh, I don't think so at all. Sonic Colors DS to me feels like a licensed game made for a summer kids movie. Sort of like when they were making those cool Spider-man games for the Playstation 1 and then when Spider-man: The Movie came out, they just made one of those Spider-man PS1 games but centered it on the plot of the movie.
It certainly isn't terrible, because it's building off of an already proven, strong foundation - but it's still kind of sloppy and cash-in-y. A lot of Colors DS feels sloppy, cluttered, and ugly. It was fun to go through once for review, but I haven't really gone back to it in the same way I did (and still do!) with Rush and Rush Adventure.
Is there? I could've sworn Insomniac said they were done...
Forbes said:
Oh. Eh. Eugh.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Seven Force
Banned
I could never really get into the Rush games. Didn't really find them fun to play at all. I don't think I ever tried Colors DS, but if it's anything Like the Rush games, I'll probably never want to play it.
Shadow Hog
Member
I know SRB2 goes the Sonic 3D/Adventure route, with its Spin Dash button instead of a Duck button. It's somewhat similar in execution, honestly.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Yeah, Sonic GDK did this, I think.
It takes the Sonic Rush engine and bends it to work like Sonic Colors on the Wii. So you only get boost energy from wisp capsules and enemies, there's no trick system, you have a stomp and a homing attack, etc.
But it still feels like a Sonic Rush game, so more often than not I feel hamstrung because boost can be kind of hard to come by sometimes.
Seven Force
Banned
That sounds a bit better than I imagined. I guess I'm just not really a fan of the blistering pace of the Rush games. (and I guess Unleashed, by extension) While I know it was likely just a one off, I actually kinda like the deliberately slower pace of Colors Wii.
Nocturnowl
Member
I don't mind the Sonic Rush games and I love Sonic Colours wii but Colours DS is pretty unremarkable, it's not bad but it's just sort of "there". It doesn't do things particularly badly (aside from the frenzy wisp replacement and its rather awful sections above instant death acid, think it was called void) but it doesn't have much going for it either.
I also think that it visually looks pretty horrible, something is just off with it.
I also think that it visually looks pretty horrible, something is just off with it.
Hot Coldman
Banned
JAK WILL FUCKING RETURN.
Actually I hope he doesn't after playing Jak 2, ugh
Actually I hope he doesn't after playing Jak 2, ugh
Hold B to crouch, LT and/or RT to rev up. Tighten up Sonics movement so stopping (and turning) are more responsive. Get rid of boost.
Eh? It's an idea.
Well, duck and hit jump to spindash, but that's the basic idea. Also removes the need for the stomp/slide button, since rolling replaces sliding outright and you can map stomping to hitting duck in the air. Axe light dashing as well and you've simplified 3D Sonic's control scheme considerably (and introduced a bunch of level design and camera problems in the process, but those are separate issues).
Hm. I'll have to actually check that out.
You might enjoy Colors DS, then. The presence of wisps takes a lot of the pressure off the boost mechanic's need to be the only thing keeping the game interesting, so the pacing eases back down to something more like Colors Wii or Sonic 3 with a steady mix of speed and precision platforming.
At least until you memorize all of the levels and can boost through them from start to finish, but that takes a while.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Sciz: I'd call such a move a Duckroll maneuver. It'd be an excellent way to make a momentum-based 3D Sonic game, one with more focus on physics-based platforming than ever before. Almost reminds me of how I liked to use the Morph Ball in the Metroid Prime games.
Nocturnowl
Member
You know it's not often I say this about games that aren't actually fundamentally broken and are of solid quality but fuck that game to hell.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Hot Coldman
Banned
They made another awesome platformer, improved the characters, and wrapped it around one of the worst "open-world" games I've ever played.
Assuming I beat this sodding ambush mission I'm currently stuck on, I hope Jak 3 is better.
Nocturnowl
Member
They made another awesome platformer, improved the characters, and wrapped it around one of the worst "open-world" games I've ever played.
Assuming I beat this sodding ambush mission I'm currently stuck on, I hope Jak 3 is better.
I just couldn't take it, I loved the first game, tried the second, oh lord did I try but the new approach was just so insulting. It's like they "Shadow the Hedgehog'd" their franchise after one game for no good reason. I couldn't make it halfway through, awful gun additions, pointless openworld that was like GTA for teens despite the fact all teens play GTA anyway.
All that solid platforming trapped behind a mountain of horrible dreck.
I have no idea how Jak 3 is, it may be better but i'll never know.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The guns are fine- the missions where they say "KILL A MILLION DUDES (who will rush at you without remorse and will annihilate you within seconds if you don't hammer the R1 button like a maniac)" are the problem.
That's the issue- not the shift in tone (it actually shifts back towards the original game's feel later in the game), not the fact that they essentially remade Ratchet and Clank with an open-world (that's depressing, not an actual flaw tbh), but the fucking awful mission design for anything that isn't platforming. Who the fuck makes a racing minigame last 5 laps?!? ;_;
You're out of your fucking mind. The bits in Jak 2 that are like Jak 1? Sure, why not. The rest of it means you're talking NONSENSE though
That's the issue- not the shift in tone (it actually shifts back towards the original game's feel later in the game), not the fact that they essentially remade Ratchet and Clank with an open-world (that's depressing, not an actual flaw tbh), but the fucking awful mission design for anything that isn't platforming. Who the fuck makes a racing minigame last 5 laps?!? ;_;
wut
Jak 2 and what I've played of 3 are great. Jak 2 just edges out 1 as my favorite
Shame the series is as good as dead as far as new good games
You're out of your fucking mind. The bits in Jak 2 that are like Jak 1? Sure, why not. The rest of it means you're talking NONSENSE though
wut
Jak 2 and what I've played of 3 are great. Jak 2 just edges out 1 as my favorite
Shame the series is as good as dead as far as new good games
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Jak 1 is still the only one I've played in full. I know I didn't like Jak 2's overworld and focus on shooting segments, though the platforming was fun as ever.
Nocturnowl
Member
Regardless of how Jak 2 actually ends up it will forever be one of those games I just don't like.
Oh and before I forget, DARK JAK! because they didn't have enough cliché cool already.
Oh and before I forget, DARK JAK! because they didn't have enough cliché cool already.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Dark Jak is a waste because the later levels basically negating use of fists means Dark Jak is fuck all useful.
I enjoyed the overworld and tone of 1 more, but overall I had more fun and got more enjoyment out of 2, even when I played the games again this year in the collection. I never had a problem with any of the missions either, aside from the FUCKING SLUM ESCAPE
I'd probably play 1 again before I would play 2 again, though. Like I said, 1 and 2 are extremely close for me. I love them both. I need to finish 3 soon
Also when did this thread become the Jak community thread?
Hot Coldman
Banned
I enjoyed the overworld and tone of 1 more, but overall I had more fun and got more enjoyment out of 2, even when I played the games again this year in the collection. I never had a problem with any of the missions either, aside from the FUCKING SLUM ESCAPE
I'd probably play 1 again before I would play 2 again, though. Like I said, 1 and 2 are extremely close for me. I love them both. I need to finish 3 soon
Also when did this thread become the Jak community thread?
WHEN I SAID SO
Well, I'm glad you liked Jak 2. Maybe I just suck. But some of these missions have unacceptable difficulty spikes, to the point where I'm noticing things and saying "they shouldn't have done that". Which I never do with games! The mission where you get a seal and then have to make it through the entire water area of the city whilst a bazillion guards descend on you? Fuck that shit. Fuck it to hell.
Naughty Dog were clearly going through a rough patch then
Yeah, that bazillion guard mission you're talking about is what I meant when I said FUCKING SLUM ESCAPE
fuck that mission
And I enjoyed the difficulty. A little unfair at times,but not so much to turn me off. Probably one of the hardest games I've ever finished, but I haven't played or finished all that many games
I wish ND would make more cartoony games again, but that will never happen now that they seem focused on being complete realism-tech whores. They still make great games but still
I only really played less than half of Sonic Colors DS, does it get worse or better later on? Because I honestly enjoyed it. Definitely not something to write home (it being the best dimps game since pocket adventure and MAYBE advance 1 isn't saying much at all, really) but it is certainly better than the craptastic Rush and Rush Adventure so far if you ask me.
(I reallllyyy did not like Rush Adventure)
(I reallllyyy did not like Rush Adventure)
Nocturnowl
Member
I actually played pretty much all of Rush and Rush Adventure through download play multiplayer races which may raise the enjoyment value of it, fun stuff.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Sonic, how did you get so influential?
So... were the people who discovered the (edit: homolog of the original hh) gene big Sonic fans or what? The inhibitor of the gene is also called Robotnikinin. There's also Pikachurin (the protein for better visual acuity), and the gene that's responsible for the proliferation of cancer throughout surrounding cells was previously called Pokemon until the Pokemon Company threatened legal action since they didn't want to be associated with it so they changed the name.
(I was doing research for something completely different until I started wondering about the current research on SHH.)
So... were the people who discovered the (edit: homolog of the original hh) gene big Sonic fans or what? The inhibitor of the gene is also called Robotnikinin. There's also Pikachurin (the protein for better visual acuity), and the gene that's responsible for the proliferation of cancer throughout surrounding cells was previously called Pokemon until the Pokemon Company threatened legal action since they didn't want to be associated with it so they changed the name.
(I was doing research for something completely different until I started wondering about the current research on SHH.)
Professor Beef
Banned
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Did Sega pay for this? :lol
The only paper I can find is by some guy named Gilbert saying that it was just named after the game character (because, I assume, they wanted to find something cool to name the homolog of the original hh). One of the three genes in a type of fish is named after Knuckles ("echidna hedgehog").
Yes, this is me procrastinating on a paper and researching stuff that's not stuff I should be researching...
I think people just want to start with a level and have a level map like older Mario games or like Rayman Origins. It forces the player to experience less of a narrative, and experience more of the game. I kind of understand where they're coming from, and I certainly do prefer it from time to time, but if someone gets it right or starts to get it right, I'd like to see them progress to perfect it. Unleashed did that, and finally got NPC design and purpose (missions are handled correctly for the most part--outside of the ones where it's "complete the whole level again to find this one person") right, especially after how 2006 floundered with its approach.
I was just thinking about how funny it is that Unleashed had HD towns with NPCs which you could interact with when a certain other game did not. >.>
But I wonder, did the Genesis games focus a ton of platforming over going fast, was it going fast over platforming, or was it an equal balance of both? There are certainly levels that require you to take your time with it (ex: Marble Zone), but then there are the ones that make you want to go fast (ex: Stardust Speedway). I kind of thought there was a balance until I put more thought into it and started thinking that the games had a bunch of levels that treated Sonic like a pinball or made him do more platforming rather than run around pretty fast.
I certainly don't mind the racing aspects of Sonic, though. I think they're fun and easy to turn my brain off and lose myself in. Unleashed doesn't really feel automatic to me because you have to do some extra stuff at least to get to better paths or to evade things.
Like, I think one of the harder things is that Sonic's so many things in general, but Sonic's different things to different people. There are people who value the platforming, people who value the powerups, people who value the racing mechanics, etc. In that way, I sorta feel like Colours/Unleashed/Generations (especially Generations) was a way to compromise on all fronts, but sometimes I'm not sure what people really want out of the series at all.
The only paper I can find is by some guy named Gilbert saying that it was just named after the game character (because, I assume, they wanted to find something cool to name the homolog of the original hh). One of the three genes in a type of fish is named after Knuckles ("echidna hedgehog").
Yes, this is me procrastinating on a paper and researching stuff that's not stuff I should be researching...
I would have preferred for them to have been broken up into several segments. But half of the time, the fighting seemed to have taken up most of the time in those stages. They really should have started him off with a higher strength stat or something.
Yeah, I agree that they should have been combined together because it was more fluid. It's just this weird thing that there's a ruin or building in the back of a town that is essentially a level hub rather than blending in seamlessly with a town like how previous games did it.
I think people just want to start with a level and have a level map like older Mario games or like Rayman Origins. It forces the player to experience less of a narrative, and experience more of the game. I kind of understand where they're coming from, and I certainly do prefer it from time to time, but if someone gets it right or starts to get it right, I'd like to see them progress to perfect it. Unleashed did that, and finally got NPC design and purpose (missions are handled correctly for the most part--outside of the ones where it's "complete the whole level again to find this one person") right, especially after how 2006 floundered with its approach.
I was just thinking about how funny it is that Unleashed had HD towns with NPCs which you could interact with when a certain other game did not. >.>
But not everyone wants Sonic Colours, even if it turned out to be a good game. Even if the game focused a lot on platforming and powerups, it's more of a Mario-esque/classical platformer-esque game than a Sonic game. In terms of powerups, Sonic has had them before in Sonic 3 where he was essentially an elemental character--harnessing water to bounce and breath, electricity and magnetism for a higher jump and drawing rings closer to him, and fire for a 'homing attack'-esque sort of thing and to withstand fire. And he has that shield that can make him avoid attacks under normal conditions.
But I wonder, did the Genesis games focus a ton of platforming over going fast, was it going fast over platforming, or was it an equal balance of both? There are certainly levels that require you to take your time with it (ex: Marble Zone), but then there are the ones that make you want to go fast (ex: Stardust Speedway). I kind of thought there was a balance until I put more thought into it and started thinking that the games had a bunch of levels that treated Sonic like a pinball or made him do more platforming rather than run around pretty fast.
I certainly don't mind the racing aspects of Sonic, though. I think they're fun and easy to turn my brain off and lose myself in. Unleashed doesn't really feel automatic to me because you have to do some extra stuff at least to get to better paths or to evade things.
Like, I think one of the harder things is that Sonic's so many things in general, but Sonic's different things to different people. There are people who value the platforming, people who value the powerups, people who value the racing mechanics, etc. In that way, I sorta feel like Colours/Unleashed/Generations (especially Generations) was a way to compromise on all fronts, but sometimes I'm not sure what people really want out of the series at all.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I get a hearty LOL from whiners about the Unleashed hubs being confusing or pointless. They were also so streamlined you'd have to be a moron to complain about getting lost. For once a game goes out of it's way to add some atmosphere with a beautifully designed piece of a town full of unique NPCs with their own little stories, fantastic atmospheric music, and an art direction so charming and appealing it sent chills down my spine entering some of them for the first time, and so of course you have people getting aneurisms at the mere sight of them.
I did have major gripes with the load times that were piled on for the day/night switches or when you needed to get to a stage gate. (I did play the PS3 version which couldn't save the game and load at the same time, on top of no installs)
Anyway, in the end I'm still a hub world believer. My fondest memories in gaming are roaming the Mario Castle in 64, just discovering strange shit, unreachable areas suddenly opening up, this seemingly immense castle becoming a soothing home at the center of the mushroom kingdom. And man that music. I got similar vibes from the Station Square/Egg Carrier/Mystic Ruin hubs.
The entire world of SA felt so believable, each action stage weaving in and out of this one big connecting world. After the exhilaration of a stage like Speed Highway, there was a special feeling of calm you got returning to Station Square, a moment of piece your mind together after such a wild trip (SA really, REALLY blew me away back in the day...) Seeing the different perspectives of the plot, revealing the mysteries of the interlocking timelines also added another layer of interest and depth to each character you played as. With such a varied soulful soundtrack trying it all together, SA is still an example of a hub that works in favor of a Sonic game. Not without it's flaws, I'm waiting for the day Sonic Team improves on this formula.
That they've seemingly fallen back to simple map selects, or horrid, lazily constructed 2d labyrinths of a hub is a little disappointing to me. It was also where SA2 really dropped the ball for me. Going from jungle island to pyramid to space just made the whole experience feel so scatterbrained and jarring, with a plot to match.
Seven Force
Banned
I think Sonic Adventure had the only hub world I liked. I don't really care for the concept (At least not in Sonic games) in general, to be honest. Going straight from level to level without any in between doesn't bother me at all.
more details have emerged from Sonic Boom Q&A with Iizuka-san
http://www.tssznews.com/2012/07/17/the-sights-and-sounds-of-sonic-boom-2012/
http://www.tssznews.com/2012/07/17/the-sights-and-sounds-of-sonic-boom-2012/
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Oh lord. I don't have enough facepalms for this.
That Sonic 2006 thing sounds like something out of a crappy soap opera (if I had to use an example, I'd say Passions).
Don't screw up the good stuff that you've already started, Sega. Colours/Generations are steps in the right direction. :|
Seven Force
Banned
I hope he takes those SA3 requests as seriously as he did the prospect of having Game Gear levels in Generations 3DS.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Blast is such a pile of shit.
I liked that in the old American canon, they elaborated on the Chaos Emerald mythology a bit in the first game by saying that there were actually seven from the beginning, but one got lost or something. It was wrapped in with the Kintobor nonsense.
He didn't laugh. That means he thinks it's a good idea. Get the bunker shelter ready, Iizuka-san is back in control!
Shamar just... really wasn't that great at all outside the music.
TheCongressman1
Member
Eh. They did some stuff right, like they usually do. No matter what game they do it will probably be the same mix of great and mediocre, so might as well take a crack at SA3.
Azure Dream
Member
Iizuka.
Stop.
Professor Beef
Banned
That quote...it doesn't make a lick of sense in ANY context.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Why are people trying to make sense of shit in Sonic games. If there was any continuity in this series, the moon would still have a hole in it in 06. And Unleashed.
Like Iizuka really has some kind of logic written out to the canon.
"Shit.. I dunno amnesia? Nanomachines? Next question!"
Like Iizuka really has some kind of logic written out to the canon.
"Shit.. I dunno amnesia? Nanomachines? Next question!"
Azure Dream
Member
That's exactly it, it's one of the reasons he just rubs me the wrong way. I really feel like he makes up bullshit answers on the spot when asked about things. It's rare to see someone in charge of a major game series doing that, and I personally don't like it.
The easiest/best answer would've been something along the lines of "06 was an independent story, and the plot there doesn't directly connect to the other games." Instead, he's making up something about amnesia? He's got to be having a laugh.
The easiest/best answer would've been something along the lines of "06 was an independent story, and the plot there doesn't directly connect to the other games." Instead, he's making up something about amnesia? He's got to be having a laugh.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
HAHA! Wut!? lol
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