Shadow Hog
Member
Fan art IIRC.
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I posted this when sonic cd came out but does anybody else hear death chamber from SA2 in Tidal tempest(JP) from sonic cd?
Tidal Tempest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nW3W-IqYuQ&sns=em
Death Chamber:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKsb0j7xUHI&sns=em
Tidal Tempest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nW3W-IqYuQ&sns=em
Death Chamber:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKsb0j7xUHI&sns=em
Shadow Hog
Member
Does sound kind of similar, I suppose. The opening part of Little Planet's not too dissimilar, either.
Different composers, though. CD was Masafumi Ogata, SA2 was Tomoya Ohtani.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yes little planet is freaking similar too. I know the composers are different, perhaps Ohtani borrow from these songs or something.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Depends on how the previous act ended. If it's anything like Mad Gear, forget it.
Man, I remember being so bad at that bit in Hydrocity when I was little.
Nocturnowl
Member
I say you turn that trope on its head and do it at the end of the stage.
But Mad Gear Act 3 was one of the few good stages in that game, even the music was solid for a change.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I feel like Dimps Eggman made Mad Gear because he wanted to annoy players.
Should've saved the moving wall for the end of the stage as opposed to putting it in 2-3 times. Last crushing wall comes at you when you're using those slow see-saw things. :x
Should've saved the moving wall for the end of the stage as opposed to putting it in 2-3 times. Last crushing wall comes at you when you're using those slow see-saw things. :x
Nocturnowl
Member
Thanks for reminding me about Episode 2's amazing plot "why did Eggman build mad gear and what was he searching for in the labyrinth?"
Yeah those SeeSaw things were pretty clunky but I did enjoy the wall chasing sections, gotta go fast indeed.
Yeah those SeeSaw things were pretty clunky but I did enjoy the wall chasing sections, gotta go fast indeed.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I forgot what Eggman was searching for in the Labyrinth. >.>
I didn't like the running on gears in the opposite direction to progress parts in Mad Gear in general. Some of the stuff they threw in there felt slow.
But man, speaking of Sonic 4's plot, Episode Metal is soooo bad.
I didn't like the running on gears in the opposite direction to progress parts in Mad Gear in general. Some of the stuff they threw in there felt slow.
But man, speaking of Sonic 4's plot, Episode Metal is soooo bad.
Nocturnowl
Member
He was searching for a big gem that did empowering stuff for Metal Sonic, I think.
Episode Metal will always be remembered by me for the removal of the first bridge in splash hill, the only place I died in that mode, I just ran straight forward and down the newly added pit.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Hey guys, how do we make stages more difficult for Metal Sonic to simulate the fact that he's trying to get his bearings while being repaired?
SPIKES, PITS, AND ADDED ENEMY ENCOUNTERS EVERYWHERE.
SPIKES, PITS, AND ADDED ENEMY ENCOUNTERS EVERYWHERE.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I think that's just Sonic "difficult" stage design 101 there. Mmm, running headfirst into those fuckin' grasshoppers from Marble Garden zone/annoying fuckin' mantis from Sonic 2 Metropolis zone. Good times!
Professor Beef
Banned
It builds character!
I really wonder why Sega bothered remaking Metropolis Zone in Sonic 4. That was a really evil level.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Because Sonic 4 is evil. Out of all the zones they could have picked to mimic, they picked Metropolis Zone because it has an industrial look for story purposes. I guess. I dunno.
Sega posted this on Facebook and for some reason it looks enticing.
Sega posted this on Facebook and for some reason it looks enticing.
Shadow Hog
Member
So yeah, I won that Sega CD I said I was bidding on. And yeah, it wiped the account I was talking about dry (especially since I had to buy a power cord separately). No sweat, I'll have another $50 in there come September 2nd or so.
Plus it came with games! Such classics as Final Fight CD (yay) and... um... Make My Video: Kriss-Kross (blegh).
Of course, I'm probably gonna forgo the latter and try to burn myself a copy of fan hack Sonic Megamix, just so I can amuse myself with it.
Plus it came with games! Such classics as Final Fight CD (yay) and... um... Make My Video: Kriss-Kross (blegh).
Of course, I'm probably gonna forgo the latter and try to burn myself a copy of fan hack Sonic Megamix, just so I can amuse myself with it.
Nocturnowl
Member
I've always been pretty cool with metropolis myself for what is a dreaded zone, suicidal starfish aside because fuck those guys.
Now Wing Fortress Zone, that's a piece of shit I can rant about all day, cool premise, horrid execution, when the Sonic 4 spiritual successor is actually a lot better then you know it truly sucked.
Though the Tornado section was lame in both and never ending in sonic 4 just to undo any good the following stages would manage.
Because Sonic 4 is evil. Out of all the zones they could have picked to mimic, they picked Metropolis Zone because it has an industrial look for story purposes. I guess. I dunno.
Sega posted this on Facebook and for some reason it looks enticing.
Do want.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
the second half of Sonic 2 is pretty LOL. Most of the time when I replay the game I just play the first 2/3rds or so
Metropolis is too long and too annoying
that flying zone is just boring
Wing Fortress is...fuck Wing Fortress
and Oil Ocean is good, but it's weaker then most of the stuff that came before
Metropolis is too long and too annoying
that flying zone is just boring
Wing Fortress is...fuck Wing Fortress
and Oil Ocean is good, but it's weaker then most of the stuff that came before
Professor Beef
Banned
People hate Wing Fortress!? When did this happen?
I don't, although I personally feel it's difficulty should be there as it's the last level.
Although I will never say Sonic 2 had any bad levels, I think they are all great.
Welcome to SonicGAF my fellow Grass Pokemon, here we discuss Sonic games in the safety of community.
I suggest trying out Sonic Generations, it's a pretty decent title, and it recreated some of the levels from the older games and Sonic Adventure so there is charm in that as well.
That is right, I got the demo of that game and Sonic 4 and I thought Generation was good.
Part 2 is my favourite, but my favourite Zone is Ice Cap Zone. With Tails being my favourite character.
Always. It is an extremely annoying level. Let's not forget that dumb boostpad-like gimmick that sends you into the bottomless pit if you're actually holding forward. ARGH
Professor Beef
Banned
What? That never happened to me...
It's not my favorite level, but I can't see the hate for it.
It happened to me at least in Sonic 2 & Knuckles...
Aaron Strife
Banned
So I got some new cables for my Genesis, so I relived the memories.
I also got the level select cheat in Sonic 3 to work for the first time ever. The one where you have a 2 second window to type in Up Up Down Down Up Up Up Up.
I also got the level select cheat in Sonic 3 to work for the first time ever. The one where you have a 2 second window to type in Up Up Down Down Up Up Up Up.
It was the same for me as a kid until one day I had an eiphany. Death Egg becomes like ten times easier when you only hit the robot after it crouches down after landing instead of being impatient and trying to hit it whenever and get killed by the spotty hit boxes on his arms.
Also you can take away like 3/4s of Silver Sonic's health before he even does an attack if you just bounce on him continuously.
Nocturnowl
Member
It's unclear, it's a mess, it's also sort of hard to describe but rest assured it sucks.
Take the cannon platforms section, the first one you come across has you jump across like 6 cannons but you have to jump on the first pretty much as soon as it pops out to make it across all 6 without falling to your death, but you can only see like 2 at best from the start point, something like this should be introduced over a section where falling wont kill you or at least with less cannons to jump because you really have no idea about how early you should've started jumping, it's a small thing but this stage is filled with minor grievances like this. Like those things on the floor which jet you forward, I had no idea they were even the culprits for the longest time, they just look like part of the scenery and guess what else does? the actual platforms you're supposed to stand on. Then there is the bars on the lower path hanging over the bottomless pit, sonic's jump from these is so feeble that you need to have jumped onto said bar right near the end of it to actually move Sonic onto the next platform since he can't shimmy along it.
And the music is weak!
I'll have to try it again to see how well grounded my complaints are, I just remember playing through the last half of Sonic 2 for the first time a few years back and I died more times in WF than the rest of the game combined because of its cheesy tricks.
Still haven't beat Death Egg and I have no real desire to.
The Death Egg separates the Hedgehogs from the Foxes. The last boss is actually very easy when you know how to do it, at least this is the method I use.
1. You have to learn Silver Sonic's initial pattern, and it's always the same no matter what, making it easy to remember.
2. When it's revving up it's spikes on it's head, you do a light tap jump and you hit it twice while still in the air. Make sure you stay on the opposite side of it's spikes, though. You can't hop on it like a normal enemy.
3. If you want to make it even faster, when it does the skating animation (not the spiky spinball move) where it moves left to right, if you jump right into it low on the ground, you'll go right through it and that's a bonus hit.
4. Last part is self explanitory, especially if you played Episode I. Stay in the corner while Dr. Robotnik locks onto you, and move when it begins beeping really fast and get a hit or two in. After you get a hit in, go all the way to the other side of the a arena so you don't get hit with the Android 16 rocket punch.
I learned this from playing the game a lot, and I've certainly played a lot of Sonic 2.
1. You have to learn Silver Sonic's initial pattern, and it's always the same no matter what, making it easy to remember.
2. When it's revving up it's spikes on it's head, you do a light tap jump and you hit it twice while still in the air. Make sure you stay on the opposite side of it's spikes, though. You can't hop on it like a normal enemy.
3. If you want to make it even faster, when it does the skating animation (not the spiky spinball move) where it moves left to right, if you jump right into it low on the ground, you'll go right through it and that's a bonus hit.
4. Last part is self explanitory, especially if you played Episode I. Stay in the corner while Dr. Robotnik locks onto you, and move when it begins beeping really fast and get a hit or two in. After you get a hit in, go all the way to the other side of the a arena so you don't get hit with the Android 16 rocket punch.
I learned this from playing the game a lot, and I've certainly played a lot of Sonic 2.
Shadow Hog
Member
Wing Fortress isn't that hard, honestly. The stage is extremely linear for the most part (although there is a shortcut via going up through a fan that lets you skip the first bottomless pit area, at least). The part that always gave me trouble was the part with the cannons opening up; I used to always take this part slow enough that they started closing behind me and caused me to lose my solid footing and die in the pit below. I've gotten a bit better about it now; you really need to take that section briskly to survive. Everything after that is cake, except maybe the boss (and even then it's not extraordinarily hard).
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Guys, I have a question:
How do you all feel about Homing Attack? Do you feel that it is necessary? Does it slow Sonic down? Should it be removed in 2D/3D Sonic?
I always felt that Homing Attack was added in because it's made it easier to latch onto things and attack enemies in a 3D space. Though how do you feel about it in either 2D or 3D?
How do you all feel about Homing Attack? Do you feel that it is necessary? Does it slow Sonic down? Should it be removed in 2D/3D Sonic?
I always felt that Homing Attack was added in because it's made it easier to latch onto things and attack enemies in a 3D space. Though how do you feel about it in either 2D or 3D?
Nocturnowl
Member
Ah the homing attack
3D: it seems pretty necessary due to Sonic's faster speed, his jumping can be fiddly as can his movement so the homing attack provides a way for Sonic to effectively combat enemies without wrestling with his own control. At least that's how I see it, as such I have no problems with the move in 3D sonic, it gives Sonic a good way to attack groups of enemies quickly and effectively.
But on the other hand if Sonic was more controllable it may not be needed in the first place.
2D: And now for the unnecessary, homing attack never really needed to be in the 2D games, for one it affects Sonic's standard jump and the flow of platforming with a failed attack motion, the need for the homing attack isn't needed in 2D leading to its use limited to stuff like bubble chains, spring targeting and so on, pretty much what it does in 3D but it just comes off as worse. I wont say it's horrible and that it ruins things as that's going overboard but it doesn't add, it tends to detract, carefully time that jump into an enemy over a gap to reach the upper path? nah lets just homing spam and shoot over anyway.
It's funny in a way, 3D sonic the pace can be well kept by the homing attack, locking straight onto a spring in the corner of the screen keeps Sonic moving as opposed to somewhat awkwardly jogging over to it, 2D Sonic feels typically faster anyway and the pace is more lost than gained. The automatic nature of the attack can feel a bit too on rails at times, they should try not to overuse it, then again I loved the bits in Asteroid Coaster where you homing attack asteroids to get through space.
3D: it seems pretty necessary due to Sonic's faster speed, his jumping can be fiddly as can his movement so the homing attack provides a way for Sonic to effectively combat enemies without wrestling with his own control. At least that's how I see it, as such I have no problems with the move in 3D sonic, it gives Sonic a good way to attack groups of enemies quickly and effectively.
But on the other hand if Sonic was more controllable it may not be needed in the first place.
2D: And now for the unnecessary, homing attack never really needed to be in the 2D games, for one it affects Sonic's standard jump and the flow of platforming with a failed attack motion, the need for the homing attack isn't needed in 2D leading to its use limited to stuff like bubble chains, spring targeting and so on, pretty much what it does in 3D but it just comes off as worse. I wont say it's horrible and that it ruins things as that's going overboard but it doesn't add, it tends to detract, carefully time that jump into an enemy over a gap to reach the upper path? nah lets just homing spam and shoot over anyway.
It's funny in a way, 3D sonic the pace can be well kept by the homing attack, locking straight onto a spring in the corner of the screen keeps Sonic moving as opposed to somewhat awkwardly jogging over to it, 2D Sonic feels typically faster anyway and the pace is more lost than gained. The automatic nature of the attack can feel a bit too on rails at times, they should try not to overuse it, then again I loved the bits in Asteroid Coaster where you homing attack asteroids to get through space.
3D: Necessary. It's impossible to hit enemies without it.
2D: Very unnecessary as is. Not only does it make killing enemies very unsatisfying, but it always breaks the flow easily. I also hated how you can use the homing attack into EVERYTHING. Item boxes, springs, whatnot. The homing attack should of have been a shield ability. If not and they still want to keep it, they should of have just make the range of it very limited like in the advance games. Also get rid of the air dash and bring back the elemental shields!
BlazeHedgehog
Member
The homing attack is necessary in 3D space. No matter how good Super Mario's 3D controls have been, it is always harder to stomp a goomba in Super Mario Galaxy than it is Super Mario Bros. The homing attack, when tuned properly, is a tool that allows players to think less about lining themselves up with enemies.
The problem is that of distance. Sonic games since Unleashed have the homing attack radius set crazy high and there are some instances where you're actually expected to lock on to things that are so far away that they are off screen. That's more than a little excessive, and transforms the homing attack from a utility in to a "win button".
It's not as useful in 2D, though. I'm sure some people find it a boon, but it's not necessary. The homing attack is there to help give 3D gameplay similar precision to 2D gameplay. In 2D, it just becomes too easy, and there's little in Sonic 4 Episodes 1 or 2 that makes good use of the homing attack in 2D.
The homing attack had to exist because they tried to translate Sonic's abilities and badnik design straight from 2D to 3D and that doesn't work naturally. They might be able to make a 3D game without it, but they'd have to do some fundamental redesigning of how Sonic or the badniks function.
It's a lazy, pointless ability in 2D that's never done anything except let the level designers not have to think about level design. Gotta bridge a gap? Homing attack! Can't figure out how to get Sonic onto a stage gimmick? Homing attack! Having to pick up speed naturally or through the spindash is too slow? Homing attack! Kill it with fire.
It's a lazy, pointless ability in 2D that's never done anything except let the level designers not have to think about level design. Gotta bridge a gap? Homing attack! Can't figure out how to get Sonic onto a stage gimmick? Homing attack! Having to pick up speed naturally or through the spindash is too slow? Homing attack! Kill it with fire.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Yeah, I think it's more necessary in 3D games because Sonic's kind of too fast and his manoeuvring isn't as accurate to hit enemies with. Which is why it's kind of odd to me that some people wish that Homing Attack should be removed from Sonic in its entirety, even in 3D space.
I merely saw it as a way to give Sonic an upper edge in 3D so that it doesn't feel like you're aimlessly hitting enemies or trying to get to a spring or something. I feel like it's needed in cases where you can't just boost to get to another platform / if you're nervous about boosting to another platform.
Now for 2D Sonic, since 2D Sonic's bounces on top of enemies and obstacles, and increasing speed and momentum down slopes, allows for him to reach higher heights, I don't feel that Homing Attack is super-necessary. Not only that, but I feel like Homing Attack in 2D just slows Sonic down. Like qq more said, it's better to implement elemental shields and the shield attack that Sonic has in Sonic 3 in order to get the same effect that Sonic's skills have in 3D. The shields have similar abilities as Sonic in a 3D space (ex: bubble shield for extra bounce/stomping; fire shield is a dash attack/boost sort of, and the electric shield was a double-jump/worked kind of like boost in that it let you attract rings), but they're not permanent and they're merely powerups or extras. That's perfectly fine.
Whenever Homing Attack is implemented in a 2D Sonic game, we get strings of pits with bubble chains, tons of springs and boosters, lots of enemies, and automation in general (Generations notwithstanding since Classic Sonic's levels aren't designed around the ability). And sometimes it doesn't feel accurate. It doesn't lend itself to making players find momentum and speed up in order to get to new heights or discoveries at all.
I merely saw it as a way to give Sonic an upper edge in 3D so that it doesn't feel like you're aimlessly hitting enemies or trying to get to a spring or something. I feel like it's needed in cases where you can't just boost to get to another platform / if you're nervous about boosting to another platform.
Now for 2D Sonic, since 2D Sonic's bounces on top of enemies and obstacles, and increasing speed and momentum down slopes, allows for him to reach higher heights, I don't feel that Homing Attack is super-necessary. Not only that, but I feel like Homing Attack in 2D just slows Sonic down. Like qq more said, it's better to implement elemental shields and the shield attack that Sonic has in Sonic 3 in order to get the same effect that Sonic's skills have in 3D. The shields have similar abilities as Sonic in a 3D space (ex: bubble shield for extra bounce/stomping; fire shield is a dash attack/boost sort of, and the electric shield was a double-jump/worked kind of like boost in that it let you attract rings), but they're not permanent and they're merely powerups or extras. That's perfectly fine.
Whenever Homing Attack is implemented in a 2D Sonic game, we get strings of pits with bubble chains, tons of springs and boosters, lots of enemies, and automation in general (Generations notwithstanding since Classic Sonic's levels aren't designed around the ability). And sometimes it doesn't feel accurate. It doesn't lend itself to making players find momentum and speed up in order to get to new heights or discoveries at all.
Yeah, now that's when Homing Attack becomes a little strange in 3D Sonic. As long as the enemies or springs or whatever are close up, there's not much of a problem with it.Sega1991 said:
Shadow Hog
Member
I'm not even entirely convinced the Homing Attack is necessary in 3D. SRB2 gets by pretty well without it (instead having the "thok", which is like the Homing Attack when it can't home in on anything - just gives you a huge boost of speed instead). Of course, its level design and gameplay mechanics are more free-roaming-oriented, and using WASD+mouse means you can line your attacks up extremely easily. Even then, the enemies can be a bit small...
I also think making really large enemies would help in that. Easier to hit a large target than it is a small one, after all. Might be a bit out-of-place considering the earlier entries in the series, admittedly, but it'd be playable.
And it's wholly unnecessary in 2D. Its inclusion in Sonic 4 was dumb as hell.
I also think making really large enemies would help in that. Easier to hit a large target than it is a small one, after all. Might be a bit out-of-place considering the earlier entries in the series, admittedly, but it'd be playable.
And it's wholly unnecessary in 2D. Its inclusion in Sonic 4 was dumb as hell.
SpikedGunner
Member
I like the homing attack, when it debuted in SA (unless we're counting the shield move from 3D Blast) I thought it was a great addition to Sonic's arsenal for both 3D games and the hybrid ones...so long as it's tuned properly and useful with good level design.
For 2D only affairs however I don't the move should be included at least as a mandatory move, because as others have stated it makes things either lazy or too easy...both could wind up doing more harm than good. However, if offered as an optional skill that can be equipped (like with Generations Classic Sonic), I'd be okay with that.
For 2D only affairs however I don't the move should be included at least as a mandatory move, because as others have stated it makes things either lazy or too easy...both could wind up doing more harm than good. However, if offered as an optional skill that can be equipped (like with Generations Classic Sonic), I'd be okay with that.
Same for me! The only new Sonics I've played since then are the Rush games which are good and the 2d/3d Generations demos which I thought sucked!
Not especially but that don't stop me from running through the story mode from time to time. But when I take one look at the stage select screen theres very few stages I'd like to sit down & play whereas the first Sonic Adventure has alot more stages I'd find fun.
I wish they could make a new Sonic R, I still love the original! Best Sonic racer ever!
Rage is the name of that game! I'll never know how I beat it originally way back when but whenever I try to since I just give up outta frustration.
I dunno but its just wrong. Its a cool looking level and the only time I had "trouble" with it was if I went super!
Even if you're playing as Knuckles? x_x
Any character works because you aren't jumping to the maximum height to beat Silver Sonic. Silver Sonic is a breeze once you learn his pattern, and once you get it down, you'll be able to defeat him within 4 times of him moving to the left or right to rev up his spikes.
You also don't need to jump high against the Death Egg Robot either as the hitboxes are rather large on it's lower half.
You also don't need to jump high against the Death Egg Robot either as the hitboxes are rather large on it's lower half.
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