Hot Coldman
Banned
That's... huh. That's something. :lol
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
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That's... huh. That's something. :lol
Soyo Oka!
Seven Force
Banned
Weird pirated games always seem to have the best sound effects :lol
DICKS AHOY
Banned
This. I still love DKC's music and how it rebooted a series which would've otherwise remained dead (besides Candy but she was promptly forgotten before the DK64 guys decided to bring her back), but as a platformer while by no means bad it's not particularly great either. I'd argue it sets the foundations for the others and Returns well though, and the 2000's era criticisms that it was a Mario clone seemed kind of bizarre given how it plays in comparison to World.
DKC2 is nearly perfect and suffers only from a few levels with glitchy collision, an infuriating final level and a few nitpicks like Wrinkly Kong being bland and pointless compared to Cranky.
DKC3 is closer gameplay wise to the second game so it's still good and has one of my favorite maps in platformers (which instantly made Funky from an annoying gameplay mechanic to a well-integrated feature), but some of the changes like Kiddy, the new enemy designs and stuff like the banana birds definitely drag the game down.
Returns is objecitvely better than DKC2 but does coast a lot on DKC1's legacy while having largely recycled music that somehow sounds lower quality than the original game's, an incredibly generic final boss in a series which normally if nothing else has memorable K. Rool fights and fucking awful rocket barrel levels.
I like Donkey Kong.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Agreed 100%. Also, DKCR allows you to play as DK in a great platformer, so that's bonus points right there.
Seven Force
Banned
I've always meant to get around the playing the series in it's entirety. I've only played DKC1 (and even then, I've only played the GBC port in it's entirety, I've only played a bit of the original SNES version) and the GBA version of DKC2 (Which I had fun with)
Always meant to get the entire trilogy + Returns on Wii one of these days...
Always meant to get the entire trilogy + Returns on Wii one of these days...
It's a part of the Mario series because it's a spinoff and uses characters from the series, but is a whole new setting and style, while the main character is a minor character from the main series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin-off_(media)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spin-off
Yoshi's Island is a spinoff just as Wario Land 1 is a spinoff.
but that's not what he said. he referred to it as a core title, and basically said that when it was made, it was considered a Mario title.
and here's the question:
"Here in the States, Yoshi’s Island was referred to as Super Mario World 2. Despite the title, many gamers don’t consider it part of the core series. Do you consider it part of the classic canon of Mario platformers or is it a spin-off in your mind since the player controls Yoshi?"
and here's the question:
"Here in the States, Yoshi’s Island was referred to as Super Mario World 2. Despite the title, many gamers don’t consider it part of the core series. Do you consider it part of the classic canon of Mario platformers or is it a spin-off in your mind since the player controls Yoshi?"
Gravijah we're dealing with actual definitions here, Miyamoto saying something doesn't change a definition. Mario doesn't throw eggs, Mario doesn't "lose" from not catching a bubble in time, Mario doesn't flutter jump, Mario doesn't transform into vehicles, and Mario isn't the main character. Mario also doesn't do a running smash either, hence Wario being a spinoff.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Yoshi gets his own icon in Super Smash Bros. and his own game in Nintendo Land.
tons of sequels and games in a series have completely changed the base mechanics, characters, etc. look at Final Fantasy I and compare it to Final Fantasy XIII. or Final Fantasy IV compared to Final Fantasy XI. they all play vastly different, with different worlds, but they are mainline, core, Final Fantasy titles.
because games like Yoshi's Story, YI
S, etc are in fact Yoshi's series games. Yoshi's Island is the Mario game that spawned those series.
because games like Yoshi's Story, YI
S, etc are in fact Yoshi's series games. Yoshi's Island is the Mario game that spawned those series.Nocturnowl
Member
If not for this I would've credited it to Kondo forever more.
Returns really could've used unique bonus rooms, it's one thing that really sticks out to me in the game as a noticeable screw up along with the bosses not called Mangoruby. Gear Getaway was awesome enough that I appreciate those rocket barrels for the most part but there could have been less, similar deal with Rayman's mosquito stuff, nothing quite puts a dampener on a stage when your realize you wont be platforming today.
I wish they had a bit more time and the Golden Temple got to be a full world.
If only waggle roll, blowing and Diddy's jetpack interfering with the bounce mechanic weren't issues, I want to say the game has sublime control as DK himself feels so right, weighty yet nimble like a hulking ape should be but those other things sort of put a damper on the control as a whole.
But anyway Returns probably has the better level design on the whole but minor niggles and the cribbing from DKC1 hold it that bit back from nabbing the top spot, sequel please to rectify this.
Which stage are we considering final for DKC2? Screech's Sprint or Animal Antics? I never felt either was that infuriating, tough for similar Squawk related reasons.
Hot Coldman
Banned
He gets his own series. :lol
Anyway, I'm more just concerned with keeping Yoshi's Island out of discussions about the best 2D Mario platformer. I'd also exclude stuff like Donkey Kong '94. That discussion should be solely SMB, SML, World and NSMB. You know, because they're all variations on the original game.
If you wanna say "what's the best Mario game?" then duh, obviously it's
word of God. you cannot keep it out.
tons of sequels and games in a series have completely changed the base mechanics, characters, etc. look at Final Fantasy I and compare it to Final Fantasy XIII. or Final Fantasy IV compared to Final Fantasy XI. they all play vastly different, with different worlds, but they are mainline, core, Final Fantasy titles.
because games like Yoshi's Story, YI
None of those games take place in the same universe, so it's quite a bit different. It would be like saying Final Fantasy 13 is a direct sequel to Final Fantasy 10 when it clearly is not. Yoshi's Island takes place in the same universe as Mario (Like Wario Land) but features a brand new main character with different styles to everything. The term and definition of spinoff exists for a reason, and it's for games like Yoshi's Island, Wario Land, and Shadow The Hedgehog.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Miyamoto chats shit constantly though, asshole thinks the Koopalings aren't Bowser kids and that he could have made Halo
At this point I'm just gonna pull the "if it walks like a duck" card
Nocturnowl
Member
Curse that Miyamoto, his newly revealed words will fuel this argument further and they go against my choice of it being a spinoff.
i don't believe Mario canon actually exists. i wouldn't consider any Mario game a direct sequel to another, because of how wonky everything is. if anything, the only games that are maybe directly related are... SMG1-2, NSMB series, and maybe uh... YI->SMW? maybe?
and Yoshi's Island actually stars Mario, too. just because you don't control him doesn't really matter. the entire point is that you are protecting Mario, because it's the very first game "chronologically" in the series, with Mario as a baby.
i think he's only talking about the Koopalings in NSMB. which would make sense, as it's basically a different series at this point.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'd be worried if you did think there was a Mario canon. (I'm looking at you, Mama.)
Stories and universe are two different things, just because it fits in the world of Mario, doesn't mean a spinoff can't connect a storyline. Shadow The Hedgehog fits directly into the Sonic timeline, and Sonic is a part of your team as are the other Sonic characters, but it is not a direct sequel to any Sonic game because the main character changes, and the style changes on drastic level while still being in the same universe as the mainline games.
A downgrade from MGS in every way.
Nocturnowl
Member
Yoshi's Island DS is most certainly a direct sequel to Yoshi's Island, consider your minds shattered.
I've never actually played Metal Gear before.
Vastly inferior to 3.
Hot Coldman
Banned
oooh, how about this: what about Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA)?
well then, get to gettin'!
well then, get to gettin'!
yes, but its influence can be felt in every subsequent Mario title, yet it also plays differently from others in the series. i would consider it a core title in the series.
i mean, without SMB2, there would be no Bob-Ombs in Mario. i'm sure everyone considers that a classic Mario enemy.
Nocturnowl
Member
Forget the Bob-Ombs, they brought us the Shyguys, best enemy of the lot.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'd count SMB2. It's too close to the original SMB not to. My disagreement with Yoshi's Island's placement is purely mechanics based, and I think the mechanics of SMB2 are definitely close enough. Especially considering the influence it had on future games in the series, whereas none of the NSMB games (for example) take influence from YI's mechanics.
SM64 plays completely different from every Mario before it, but you would still consider it a core title, no?
Nocturnowl
Member
Well it's not like we have a Mario community, plus Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games, there you go, connection.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Well, not amongst the 2D Marios, no.
That's what I've been talking about this whole time, just the basic "Super Mario Bros." games.It's still ironic though lol
mainline, post Donkey Kong Mario Titles (IMO)
Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros 2., Super Mario Bros 3., Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros U.
Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros 2., Super Mario Bros 3., Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros U.
Nocturnowl
Member
Where's Super Mario Land 3 Wario Land?
/opening can of worms.
Actually there's no SML at all, da hell?
/opening can of worms.
Actually there's no SML at all, da hell?
Nocturnowl
Member
Because people don't like that one.
but it plays almost exactly like YI
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'd include the Mario Lands. Apart from that, yeah, that's the Mario mainline series. If they ever make Mario Generations, I expect a level from each!
It's made by Artoon and is unworthy
Professor Beef
Banned
That'd be like if 4Kids made a K-On series and I said "it's almost exactly the same as regular K-On."
Nocturnowl
Member
It certainly does.
Weaker music, occasionally irritating use of new baby gimmicks and weaker stage design on the whole are noticeable downsides but I find it quite fascinating how much dislike it gets when to me the main problem is more that it is just too similar, like an inferior copy.
Still not quite worthy of the bum rush it gets, just goes to show what a high pedestal the original is placed on, you'd think they'd be happy the game got at least a lot closer than Story, Touch and Go and UNIVERSAL GRAVITATION.
UNIVERSAL GRAVITATION.
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