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[Aaron Strife]

Thinking about it, though, as weird and overdone as Sonic's mouth was in Sonic Adventure, it was waaaay too subdued in SA2. We're talking Clutch Cargo levels of creepiness, here. Those teeth, man.

Unleashed onwards got this part so right.

I like the pre-level Green Forest bit in SA2 where his mouth doesn't move to his dialogue at all.

It's like it was just originally a silent scene of Sonic and Shadow facing off and they decided to add dialogue later.

So... we're saying that Chip is probably a better sidekick than Tails due to how emphasized the Chip friendship was over the Tails friendship in Unleashed?

Tails could easily be substituted for Chip. I just like the universe they created in Unleashed and possible recurring characters like Wentos and the Don Fachio brothers.

 

[Sciz]

No ones banking on a big Sonic announcement this week correct?

It'd be a change of pace for them. Usually the big games get an initial trailer in March/April, then a proper reveal at E3.

Can't rule out a WiiU exclusive yet, though.

edit: God, I hope there's a Sonic game due out this year. The number of CoD and Uncharted clones on display this E3 is depressing.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Fatal Labyrinth looks like the best Sonic game ever!

 

[TheOGB]

Hey now, "Big" can be cool too. If Parappa could make the word cool, then anyone can. But then again, Parappa is on a whole new plane of cool.

That song is fucking chill

<3 PaRappa the Rapper

 

[Professor Beef]

That song is fucking chill

<3 PaRappa the Rapper

I dare say that Parappa 2 had a better soundtrack than 1. Not to say that 1 is bad by any means, but 2 is just amazing.

 

[Dark Schala]

edit: God, I hope there's a Sonic game due out this year. The number of CoD and Uncharted clones on display this E3 is depressing.

Nintendo's conference(s) might save us.

Oh god, I hope Nintendo's conference might save us. Really liked Ubisoft's conference, though, and that's mostly because of Rayman, AC3/AC:L, and that Watch Dogs game. Hoping for a decent Sonic game to come out of this E3.

I couldn't take all the playing up of shootbang and brown I saw today. :/

 

[Emitan]

i hate you, shootbangs

'cept for borderlands 2

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Even just a Generations Wii U port with a few new levels would be nice. A new game would be better though, obviously.

Sega All-Stars Racing Transformed looks ace though, so at least there's that.

 

[Dark Schala]

Far Cry 3 looked like a decent shootbang. It had colour. :O

Gosh I hope Sega has more up their sleeves than what they already said they were going to talk about. If they have anything to show, I'd think (hope) it'd be at the Nintendo conference(s). Sega All-Stars Racing looks good, but I want more.

 

[Emitan]

Far Cry 3 had boobs. After the boobs went away I stopped caring.

But I hated it at the same time for being blatant sexualization. Being a lesbian is confusing :/

 

[Dark Schala]

Far Cry 3 had boobs. After the boobs went away I stopped caring.

But I hated it at the same time for being blatant sexualization. Being a lesbian is confusing :/

I forgot about the boobs for a minute.

No, no... not liking something because of its over/hyper-sexualization is normal. It can be really tasteless. That's why I don't really care for character designs which show off a lot of skin or something like that. I think it's a turn-off. I get that most of the audience are guys and stuff, but I'm sure there are a ton of guys who go for tasteful designs rather than focusing on the obvious sex bits.

A woman isn't just an "object" (and I use this term loosely) of desire. Women can be beautiful, strong, or confident in their sexuality without showing off a ton of skin. But I guess some parts of the industry just don't get that sometimes. Edit: Sometimes I feel like they forget that a woman is more than her body as well.

That's why I'm so interested in this AC Vita game. Her design is really impressive to me just because she doesn't show off a ton of skin.

 

[Emitan]

Yeah, the assassin girl is really cool and I want that white vita~

 

[Dark Schala]

Yeah, the assassin girl is really cool and I want that white vita~

I wish I'd waited to get the white Vita. At least it'd hide my fingerprints. :/

Oh well.

I remember saying how I wanted a Sonic game for my Vita when I got mine. Sega All-Stars is close enough, but I wish they'd add more DD stuff for it at least. Kinda surprised Sonic 4: Episode 2 wasn't for Vita/3DS as well.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Thinking about it, though, as weird and overdone as Sonic's mouth was in Sonic Adventure, it was waaaay too subdued in SA2. We're talking Clutch Cargo levels of creepiness, here. Those teeth, man.

Unleashed onwards got this part so right.

I still think the concept of sidemouth looks completely awful in a very bad way. Like all those artists who tried to draw Sonic's spikes as a buzzsaw back in the old comics and cartoons. 3D space works different than 2D space.

 

[Emitan]

I wish I'd waited to get the white Vita. At least it'd hide my fingerprints. :/

Oh well.

Gravijah and I tried to get everyone to wait. Well considering the Vita's sales, maybe we were successful!

 

[Dark Schala]

Gravijah and I tried to get everyone to wait. Well considering the Vita's sales, maybe we were successful!

Note to self: Next time a system launches, listen to Gravijah and Billie because they know stuff.

I wanted the purple Vita that was on display once because it looked so cute. Purple must be a mandatory launch colour when we get new handhelds.

 

[Emitan]

I really want the lime green one. Oh well. White will do.

Let's be PSN buddies!

PSN: PublicEmilieNo1

 

[Sciz]

I still think the concept of sidemouth looks completely awful in a very bad way. Like all those artists who tried to draw Sonic's spikes as a buzzsaw back in the old comics and cartoons. 3D space works different than 2D space.

It's just plain damn wrong.

 

[Dark Schala]

I really want the lime green one. Oh well. White will do.

Let's be PSN buddies!

PSN: PublicEmilieNo1

Okie, sure! I sent a friend request with my NA/Vita account. You'll know it's me, anyway.

This looks awful. Er. Not Mario. The smile on Sonic looks wrong.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Just plain damn wrong.

Looks fine to me, for the most part. Like Schala said,

That looks kind of dumb, but that's hardly the mouth's position to blame. Sonic's just got a weird facial expression in general in that image (why are his pupils so small?)

 

[Pietepiet]

I still think the concept of sidemouth looks completely awful in a very bad way. Like all those artists who tried to draw Sonic's spikes as a buzzsaw back in the old comics and cartoons. 3D space works different than 2D space.

Agreed.

What bothers me most about sidemouth is that only some characters have it. Tails and Charmy, for example, have normal mouths.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I still think the concept of sidemouth looks completely awful in a very bad way. Like all those artists who tried to draw Sonic's spikes as a buzzsaw back in the old comics and cartoons. 3D space works different than 2D space.

Agreed. It's one thing to make him smirk to one side every once in a while, and then there's having to model two mouths for no reason.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Like, that's wrong too. But there were a lot of people who honestly thought Sonic's quills were like a buzzsaw blade attached to his head. There's a reason you never see Sonic head-on very often in those old cartoons, and it's because of stuff like this:

And it's not just crappy "Oh well that's American artwork", if you look at sprites for Sonic 2, even Sonic Team wasn't really sure how to render Sonic's quills in 3D.

But they figured out a good way to portray that in 3D without falling back to the "Well it has to look exactly like it does in 2D".

To be perfectly honest, though, I think the part that weirds me out most about "sidemouth" is that Sonic has lips. That's what makes it a little too real for me, that he has this disembodied mouth constantly sliding around his face, is when they give him lips.

Because Sonic the Fighters has "Sidemouth" Sonic, but since his mouth is just a 2D texture, it looks... okay?

Of course, you also only ever see it from a side-on perspective. Another problem with current portrayals of Sonic's mouth is when you're looking at him head-on (there's that problem again) and you can quite clearly see the mouth is on one side of his face but not the other, and that's when it looks SUPER CRAZY WEIRD.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! It's ultimately not a problem, though, because I know people really easily want to make the "GREEN EYES!!1111!!11" leap in logic. It's just a weird little thing that bugs me, is all.

 

[OMG Aero]

Is E3 and all these new(?) games terrifying you? Well never fear, because Kyle and Keith have got you covered with some good(?) old games!
Let's Play 20 Years of Sonic Bonus - Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection (2/2)
And in case you missed part 1, here it is again.

Agreed. It's one thing to make him smirk to one side every once in a while, and then there's having to model two mouths for no reason.

Except the model having two mouths is something you never seen in-game so this is completely irrelevant.
Side mouth is a stylistic choice just like Mickey Mouse's ears always being flat to the camera and looks way better than putting his mouth in the middle. For some characters that looks normal like Tails, but for Sonic it just doesn't look right.

 

[Pietepiet]

For some characters that looks normal like Tails, but for Sonic it just doesn't look right.

I really don't understand this. How does it look any different for Sonic than it does for Tails or, say, Charmy (whose muzzle resembles Sonic's more than Tails').

Another problem with current portrayals of Sonic's mouth is when you're looking at him head-on (there's that problem again) and you can quite clearly see the mouth is on one side of his face but not the other, and that's when it looks SUPER CRAZY WEIRD.

Totally agreed. Shots like this look so weird:

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Totally agreed. Shots like this look so weird:

Especially when you have Tails with a normally centered mouth and Sonic with sidemouth together in the same image! Because check it out, Tails should totally have sidemouth too:

 

[Lijik]

That looks kind of dumb, but that's hardly the mouth's position to blame. Sonic's just got a weird facial expression in general in that image (why are his pupils so small?)

I dunno the mouth position stands out the most to me on this one, it looks really unappealing and "wrong" Its really weird you agree with that generations shot but dont see whats wrong with this one because they both have the same problem - the mouth isnt in the best spot for the angle.

I also really dont get the whole "It doesnt work in 3d!" argument but granted I also dont understand why big budget CG films hide all of their appealing smears behind copious amounts of motion blur because thats how "real life works!".
its a blue hedgehog who runs. He doesnt function under any semblance of reality.


EDIT- Its like Mickey's Ears in 3D. I guess its technically "right" to have them stay still and not form the silhouette. But it just looks wrong, off, and unappealing.

 

[Pietepiet]

its a blue hedgehog who runs. He doesnt function under any semblance of reality.

Can we please not use this argument? You can excuse any silly design choice that way.
Sure, you can stretch what makes sense and what doesn't when you're working with cartoony, unrealistic characters and ideas. But that doesn't mean everything goes just because it's not realism.

EDIT- Its like Mickey's Ears in 3D. I guess its technically "right" to have them stay still and not form the silhouette. But it just looks wrong, off, and unappealing.

I agree with this, because Mickey's ears are part of his really strong silhouette.

 

[Lijik]

Can we please not use this argument? You can excuse any silly design choice that way.
Sure, you can stretch what makes sense and what doesn't when you're working with cartoony, unrealistic characters and ideas. But that doesn't mean everything goes just because it's not realism.

I dont see how "Anything goes because its blatantly a cartoon" is any less valid than "Anything shouldnt go because vague rules!"

Besides having the side mouth falls more in like the defined animation principle of appeal more than not having it. Its unique, gives him charisma, and is recognizably "Sonic" the same way an actor might have recognizable quirks.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

its a blue hedgehog who runs. He doesnt function under any semblance of reality.

Is this a crutch you really want to lean on? One could use this to excuse a lot of really bad things in this franchise - things a lot worse than dopey sidemouth.

 

[OMG Aero]

I really don't understand this. How does it look any different for Sonic than it does for Tails or, say, Charmy (whose muzzle resembles Sonic's more than Tails').

Because that's the way it looks to me.
I can't explain why side mouth looks better on Sonic to me no more than you can explain why front mouth looks better to you, we just have different opinions on it.
Take that Generations picture you posted, all the characters look perfect in that image to me.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Hey now, "Big" can be cool too. If Parappa could make the word cool, then anyone can. But then again, Parappa is on a whole new plane of cool.

Whenever I smell weed in my apt. building, I start rapping that song.

 

[Shadow Hog]

And it's not just crappy "Oh well that's American artwork", if you look at sprites for Sonic 2, even Sonic Team wasn't really sure how to render Sonic's quills in 3D.

And yet they got it right in the same game:

Or even the one being developed at the same time:

Not sure what point I'm making with this tbqh, just making an observation.

Take that Generations picture you posted, all the characters look perfect in that image to me.

Well, Tails should probably have side mouth too, but other than that...

 

[SpikedGunner]

Especially when you have Tails with a normally centered mouth and Sonic with sidemouth together in the same image! Because check it out, Tails should totally have sidemouth too:

One would think if they were able to successfully pull of the centered mouth Tails in 3D, they should be able to do the same with Sonic.

 

[Sciz]

Tails tends to have slightly more of a jaw to center his face than the rest of the cast, and his tufts of fur consume some of the space on the sides that his muzzle would otherwise occupy. Sidemouth just wouldn't have the same range of freedom on him.

 

[Gravijah]

so i'm staying away from gaming until the e3 insanity goes away

 

[Kokonoe]

Least there's Sega Racing to look forward to.

 

[Dark Schala]

so i'm staying away from gaming until the e3 insanity goes away

People are losing it. :lol

Well. I kinda wish we got a new Sonic game. Oh well. We have Super Sonic Racing so that's enough. Everybody should Super Sonic Race.

 

[Gravijah]

People are losing it. :lol

e3 always makes gaf go insane, and after those 3 conferences, it's gonna be bad... thank god for communities.

 

[Professor Beef]

You know who doesn't have to worry about sidemouth issues?

 

[Dark Schala]

e3 always makes gaf go insane, and after those 3 conferences, it's gonna be bad... thank god for communities.

People know that we still have a few more days for E3, and that E3 just started today, right?

And that we still have GamesCom and other events (ex: Nintendo Direct, That Heaven thing that Sony does) that the hardware developers seem to have every few months?

 

[TheOGB]

I feel like side mouth on angled/side shots then centered or mostly-centered for head-on shots would work well enough.

Sidemouth head-on and centermouth from an angle are the awkward parts to me, just mix them when necessary.


And Sonic X always pissed me off showing Sonic with only 3 quills and Shadow... eugh.

 

[Gravijah]

People know that we still have a few more days for E3, and that E3 just started today, right?

And that we still have GamesCom and other events (ex: Nintendo Direct, That Heaven thing that Sony does) that the hardware developers seem to have every few months?

people are impatient and unreasonable. oh well, i'm just waiting for e3 to start proper. i'm sure there's gonna be tons of hidden gems!

 

[Kokonoe]

People know that we still have a few more days for E3, and that E3 just started today, right?

And that we still have GamesCom and other events (ex: Nintendo Direct, That Heaven thing that Sony does) that the hardware developers seem to have every few months?

Yeah, but e3 is the biggest event of the year. If they don't announce things there, they don't have anything to show. (Wii U)

Nintendo's conference was pretty bad.

 

[Dark Schala]

Yeah, but e3 is the biggest event of the year. If they don't announce things there, they don't have anything to show. (Wii U)

Nintendo's conference was pretty bad.

I was admittedly expecting something from Sega during that conference. Something original for Wii U (specifically, something Sonic for Wii U). Ah well.

They (ie: other publishers) could still announce stuff on the floor rather than during the conference, I guess.

people are impatient and unreasonable. oh well, i'm just waiting for e3 to start proper. i'm sure there's gonna be tons of hidden gems!

I'm looking forward to localization announcements, myself.

A lot of the stuff I usually want is announced at TGS, though. And Tales Festival was super-underwhelming for me because we only got, like, two games... which is very out-of-the-ordinary for Tales. They usually announce 3-4 games per year. We only got a PS3 sequel and browser game.

 

[Emitan]

I was hoping for Sonic Colours 2

 

[Seven Force]

Man, Gaming side is a wreck right now.

There's supposedly an announcement coming today about ASR Transformed. It's probably just an official announcement of the Wii U version, though.

 

[Gravijah]

I'm looking forward to localization announcements, myself.

A lot of the stuff I usually want is announced at TGS, though. And Tales Festival was super-underwhelming for me because we only got, like, two games... which is very out-of-the-ordinary for Tales. They usually announce 3-4 games per year. We only got a PS3 sequel and browser game.

let's go tgssssssss

Spoiler

and yes you should have listened to me about the white vita

 

[Dark Schala]

Man, Gaming side is a wreck right now.

There are so. many. threads... and I can't make sense of any of it.

Every thread title looks the same to me. Doesn't help that they're coded by conference, I guess. And it probably doesn't help that the subject matter for some threads is the same thing anyway.

I was hoping for Sonic Colours 2

Remember when Sonic Dimensions was a thing?

let's go tgssssssss

Spoiler

and yes you should have listened to me about the white vita

Quiet, you.

Are you getting one anymore, or not really?

 

[Kokonoe]

I was hoping for Sonic Colours 2

You're from Texas.