S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Smart move.
Sony is certifying a “PlayStationVR2 PC adapter”
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
docchicken
Member
that would be smart, and Sony's executives aren't that. They're retarded.
I still welcome it
Better off despite the better tech zero wire vr can't be beat I don't care even if it's a single wire.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Ah ha. Like most people suspected. You'll be able to use PSVR2 on PC.
Way back when they were vague about how it'll work, people brought up how it'll work on PC and some people assumed it wouldnt be VR2 being accessible on PC. But PC VR games working on VR2 on PS5 only (one way street).
Looks like the dongle will make it truly PC compatible.
Way back when they were vague about how it'll work, people brought up how it'll work on PC and some people assumed it wouldnt be VR2 being accessible on PC. But PC VR games working on VR2 on PS5 only (one way street).
Looks like the dongle will make it truly PC compatible.
Fahdis
Member
GametimeUK
Member
I've never really enjoyed any of my VR headsets. Amazing first impressions, but ultimately I prefer a TV / monitor.
The PSVR2 has been especially disappointing, but this adaptor looks set to help me enjoy a few titles on PC as my current PC headset is ancient in comparison.
The PSVR2 has been especially disappointing, but this adaptor looks set to help me enjoy a few titles on PC as my current PC headset is ancient in comparison.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The value is for PS5 owners who also own a gaming PC. Now they can use their headset on both.
For me on PC there's more value in buying a Quest 3.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
But the number of PS5 owners who own a gaming PC is less than the number of PS5 owners who don't. Also, SIE shouldn't rely on outer-ecosystem devices to provide justified value to their own devices, or the customers of their devices.
That just doesn't make a lot of rational sense to me.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Sony's looking to expand their VR sales, because it's not doing well on PS5. An outer platform to you isn't an outer platform to them. For Sony PC is an extension of the PlayStation platform.
Also Sony couldn't even be bothered to make it backwards compatible with their previous PSVR system. Their customer's value isn't a concern.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It's not really about PS5 owners who already have a PC that can play PC VR games; it's about the PS5 owners who don't have that PC, but they have a PSVR2 that may or may not get native ports of those PC VR games.
I'll admit
SmokedMeat
brought up a decent point about why that may not happen anytime soon; at the very least Sony'd need their own launcher for VR games on PC to facilitate the streaming of PC VR games on that launcher to their console. I'm just trying to drive the point that PC compatibility for PSVR2 isn't going to do anything for console owners who have the headset and don't have a PC suitable for VR gaming.The value proposition for PSVR2 still needs to prioritize offerings that are on the console. At the very least Sony/SIE need to add VR mode media playback for PSVR2 on the console, and add VR support to more 1P titles. A VR mode for something like Spiderman 2 or GOWR would probably be pretty enticing for console PSVR2 owners (even if by virtue of those games being ported, PC owners would also likely get those VR modes in PC versions of those games).
PC might be seen as an extension of the PS platform but neither you nor I know in what context or capacity that viewpoint of "extension" applies. And as far as the customer is concerned, it doesn't matter what SIE thinks; if a dedicated console owner feels like they aren't getting their money's worth on the console because of a split focus of SIE catering to non-console owners, that customer is more likely to phase out of the console side of the ecosystem or the entire ecosystem altogether.
And at that point, it is a bigger impact to SIE than some several PC customers who choose not to buy a Steam copy of the game or wait to buy their copies for much cheaper (for example, because the PC versions aren't Day 1). As for the lack of PSVR1 BC, well that in part explains why PSVR2 adoption on PS5 has been slow. VR is a relatively new platform vs. traditional consoles, even if the VR is a peripheral for a console. The rate of games developed for VR, and the degree of games specifically designed to maximize VR design principals, is significantly less than traditional flat games.
Due to this, BC is magnitudes more important for VR devices gen-over-gen than traditional consoles. SIE somehow ignored this (maybe they had data that misled them?), and PSVR2 has kind of paid the price on PS5 in terms of sales. It won't have that problem on PC, because the number of VR games on PC is magnitudes greater than those available for PSVR2, including many that are PC & Steam-exclusive, like Half-Life: Alyx.
SIE undervalued their console customers and did not respect their previous PSVR1 investments. Honestly, they should be happy PSVR2 sales got anywhere near whatever level they are currently at; no BC in this case was a very mid '90s SEGA-tier move and if it were any other platform holder, PSVR2 probably would've been at 250K or less.
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SportsFan581
Member
It's not really about PS5 owners who already have a PC that can play PC VR games; it's about the PS5 owners who don't have that PC, but they have a PSVR2 that may or may not get native ports of those PC VR games.
I'll admit
The value proposition for PSVR2 still needs to prioritize offerings that are on the console. At the very least Sony/SIE need to add VR mode media playback for PSVR2 on the console, and add VR support to more 1P titles. A VR mode for something like Spiderman 2 or GOWR would probably be pretty enticing for console PSVR2 owners (even if by virtue of those games being ported, PC owners would also likely get those VR modes in PC versions of those games).
I just don't see how that squares. If you have the hardware to run the games on PC, run them there with the PSVR2. If your PC can't run those games locally, than you can't stream the games from your local hardware to the PS5 in the first place. The only viable streaming option in that instance would be a remote solution, but that is a hard nut to crack since at that point you are not just looking to send back the button presses but also the tracking telemetry, and you need high fps and low latency of both inbound and outbound data. With as taxing as airlink is on a lan, I don't think this is happening via remote streaming over conventional ISPs any time soon.
If PS players are missing some VR games, the Sony solution there is to get PSVR ports of those games on PS.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well yes, the bolded's the optimal solution. The question I have is, does PSVR2 compatibility on PC incentivize PC VR devs to port their games to PS5? I would argue it likely doesn't. It'd seem the whole reason for those ports in the first place would be to get their games to another decently-sized VR audience. However, if SIE implement PSVR2 compatibility on PC, those PC VR devs will assume PS5 owners with a headset, should just access their games on PC and use the headset they already own.
That will become the prevailing mindset of various PC VR game devs, meaning the incentive to port to PS5 drops like a stone. This isn't so much the case for PC devs making non-VR centric games that just happen to have VR compatibility; in those cases there is still incentive to port to the PS5 (but maybe without the VR mode features until much later). And in general I just think this won't do much to spur PSVR2 adoption console-side. It's not like SIE have a ton of devs making VR games themselves or even VR-compatible modes for their flat-screen games.
Like, it's only Polyphony Digital in that regard with the (excellent) VR support in GT7, and there was Call of the Mountain, but the studio behind that has been closed. Spiderman 2, GOWR, HFW, Rift Apart, Demon's Souls Remake etc...none of them have PSVR2 support at all.
SportsFan581
Member
I don't think bringing PSVR2 to PC would have a negative result on the PS/PSVR2 combination. What PS brings to the table is a large base of players that have a specific hardware configuration that can be targeted and that is available for a lowish price. PSVR2 is the headset option those users have to experience VR (I think Sony missed the mark by trying to be best-in class with the headset and that a more Quest/Oculus go type hybrid device would have been a far better solution for them. Where VR gaming happened when linked to the console with the usbc, but the device could provide basic, standalone media playback like the Oculus Go. But that's a different conversation).
If anything bringing the headset to PC will encourage support for some of its unique features, the eye tracking and so on.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And GTA6.We are going to get Déraciné before Bloodborne, aren't we.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Compatability with PC brings media capability and *ahem* porn to PSVR2/PS5 owners who also own a PC made in the last decade.
It's still won't sell. People want these to be wireless, they don't want to be tethered to their computer or console.
10000%. Half-life Alex over Wi-Fi 6E is God level. Complete freedom to play anywhere in my house without a single wire.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Sony looked at wireless for PSVR2 and decided not to. That's just a bad bet and that happens in life. They took a bet on OLED vs LCD pancake lenses and it was a bad bet too.
Sony also took a bet on changing the form factor of PSVR for the long run moving away from move controllers. This was probably a good decision but came at the cost of compatibility with old games. Most PSVR1 games have been ported to PSVR2, so I think this was a smart bet.
Sony also bet on internal storage for the PS5 and not having dual shock 4 be compatible with PS5. These bets worked out.
When you make decisions, you collect data, and you incorporate the data into lessons learned for the future.
I'm sure the next PSVR will be wireless and it'll support PC on Day 1. The only question is whether it will have stand-alone games or not.
PSVR3 will be in a much better position to compete for market share than the PSVR2. I think Sony had hoped that PSVR2 would be driven by a lot of flat AAA (where they would have the advantage over Meta) games getting VR modes, but due to the market contracting, VR is probably one of the first things to get cut from budgets of AAA games, thus drastically reducing the value of PSVR2.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well in isolation no, PSVR2 for PC wouldn't have a negative effect on PS5 owners. But only if it actually results in more VR ports to PS5 or more VR modes for games on PS5 so console owners can get more use out of their headsets without needing a PC to do so. Otherwise, I think there's the immediate detriment in where that situation doesn't arise, and therefore console owners don't get additional value on their end.
It's either that, or Sony/SIE ensure more functionality is added to the headset console-side, like VR wide cinema support for film and television content, stuff the cheaper Quest headsets already provide. As far as lofty ambitions are concerned, I do agree that a high-end headset should not have been SIE's focus, or at least their only focus. IMO VR won't become mainstream until at least these three things are true:
1: The price is cheap enough for an entry headset
2: The headset is included as a default part of the experience, not simply as an optional peripheral
3: Because of (2), the OS, UI, and game software can fully design around the headset in ways they could not before due to no guarantee in large VR userbase adoption
Sony's technically in a better position than most to make that happen, but I don't know if the SIE of this gen are interested in getting serious about pushing VR/MR anytime soon, or even for next generation. Though I'll admit, they probably need a good portable/hybrid option ahead of VR for next gen, if anything. So they should probably prioritize building upon the PS Portal, preferably with a next-gen portable/hybrid that can natively run scaled down versions of PS6 games.
Yes, but only guaranteed for PC VR games. That doesn't really guarantee those games then get PS5 ports so console owners who have a headset, can play them without needing to also have a PC.
And what about the PS5 owners who don't have a PC (or don't have one suitable for VR games)? That's what I'm asking here.
They made a much worst bet in not providing BC for PSVR1 on the PSVR2. Speaking of which, if they are trying to bring PC compatibility to PSVR2, console owners should demand they work on BC of PSVR1 games for the device as well.
But many haven't been ported yet. What's more a lot of people have physical collections of their PSVR1 games that are basically worthless with PSVR2 even if the games have been ported.
And on the topic of controllers, SIE made yet another stupid decision in PSVR2 controllers not being swappable. If your device's controllers stop working, you have to get a whole new headset. That just shouldn't be the case at all.
I'm not sure if that's down to a technical reason or a policy decision on SIE's part, but not being able to easily buy replacement controllers at a fair price, is just not cool
Lack of DS4 compatibility is kinda BS though; it's mainly there so they can force people to buy DualSense controllers on console. Meanwhile with PC ports of their own PS5 games, you don't have to use the DualSense; you can use any controller you want.
Another example of the console customer base being taken for granted IMO or being seen as paypigs in an unbalanced relationship, while the audience that's invested far less into the ecosystem get more options. SIE have to do a much better job balancing appeals to console and PC gamers going forward if they are hellbent on this multiplatform strategy.
It'll probably have some standalone games, if you mean VR-only titles. But otherwise I'd expect it to still require a PS console or PC in order to function. It likely won't have embedded processing like the Quest devices.
That though isn't what I think would actually hold PSVR3 back from commercial viability. It'd be a factor but not the biggest one, by far.
That doesn't necessarily excuse SIE's own games not having PSVR2 support though. I mean it has to start somewhere, the stimulus has to come from somewhere, and as the platform holder, that's ultimately SIE's responsibility to bear. They can't expect 3P to pick up the slack for a peripheral like PSVR2 when their own 1P teams aren't doing much with it either aside from Polyphony Digital.
I'll say this: if PSVR3 is basically PSVR2 but with better tech, PC support out of the box, and a higher price tag...it will struggle just as much if not more than PSVR2 already is. That is just SIE serving a small niche of a small niche; PC support Day 1 might improve prospects by 150% but 150% over 350K isn't saying much when you're talking over a period of 2+ years for peripheral hardware.
Though I guess that would depend on some other things, like console install base. Which can't be predicted right now, or anytime soon.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
You and your continuously worse arguments... What does PC support have to do with BC? You realize that there is no real way to get PSVR2 to work with PSVR1 right? There is no camera, it doesn't work with move controllers. The cost of making PSVR2 backwards compatible with PSVR1 would have been immense for an already very expensive headset, expensive and redundant.
Technology changes drastically and Sony had to make a decision to get off the old path that was outdated and antiquated. PS Move is nearly 15 years old...
The device is barely a year old, they would replace them under warranty and they can also repair them out of warranty. How much sense does it make to release the controllers separately if they haven't sold a ton of them. It's a difficult product to sell at retail.
Let's say they've sold 2 million PSVR2 units. How many of these controllers are going to break? At most 200K units. 200K united spread across the world... it's easier to replace these via hardware support than it is to try and sell them on the market.
If they sell more due to PC taking off, you'll probably see individual units in the market place (for which you'll complain about).
It's there to ensure games work on PS5 with the featureset and experience of the Dual Sense. You can still use dual shock 4 on PS4 games.
PC Ports can use any gamepad, but again with no guarantee of the same feature set. Sony doesn't own the platform nor do they guarantee the experience unlike with PlayStation.
More options and a worse user experience. Congrats.
Meanwhile you have people complaining that in many games you need to have Dual Sense controller plugged in to experience all the features rather than via Bluetooth, but I'm guessing you didn't know that.
You're the last person who should try to predict ANYTHING related to PSVR.
I don't think you're totally wrong, but I think you have to realize that some of these 3rd party games are probably funded by Sony as well, at least partially.
Sony doesn't have the development studios to dedicate to VR development. Games like Astrobot and Until Dawn might end up getting VR modes after the fact.
I wouldn't expect the PSVR3 to have a higher price tag than the PSVR2. I think they'll look to save costs and release as cheap as they can. PC support and more importantly stand alone support can give it a significantly larger userbase, but I do expect the PSVR3 will work with the PS5. I wouldn't be surprised if it launched early as a sort PSVR2 Pro.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
But you dont need a PC suitable for VR games for media functionality, just one capable of 4K video playback and HDMI 1.4.
You'd also think with all these PlayStation games finally coming to PC they'd add in official support for the DualSense controller to support haptics without being plugged in via USB. Seems like Sony has an obsession with cables having to be plugged in. Annoying.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Sony games support Dual Sense with haptics when not plugged in.
Sony clearly has PC plans that they're not discussing publicly. It's not as if these things don't work, but rather Sony wants them to work in their own environment.
We're getting closer and closer to a PC launcher.
When I last played Returnal it did not support DualSense properly till I plugged in. Is that not considered a Sony game? I'm referring to the triggers etc/Adaptive.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Look up Ghost of Tsushima.
Yes. It doesn't support wireless full DualSense support. Says so right on the Steam page.
- Choose how you control the action: experience haptic feedback and adaptive triggers through a wired DualSense™ controller…
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Hmm, I had heard otherwise, thanks for the correction.
Yeah no worries. It feels so retrograde to plug in the DualSense for any supported games. I'm honestly a bit in disbelief it hasn't been resolved yet, either by software or with a DualSense USB adapter.
SportsFan581
Member
I think you are forgetting that different tracking mechanisms can be supported by the underlying software. This is why Steam VR can support both lighthouse and inside-out tracking. Ultimately the movements of the controllers and headset become mathematics for the software to process. Certainly a BC layer could have been created that translated the data from the modern headset to data that could be understood by the old software.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
No camera? Why can't SIE just make the older camera PS5-compatible to solve that problem?
No Move controller compatibility? Why didn't they design the new controllers to be mapping-friendly and BC with Move controller setups?
BC would've made it more expensive? Dude, it was already $549; the audience wanting a PSVR2 Day 1 @ $549 would not have been fussed over an extra $100. In fact, there are probably some who would've paid $549 or even $649 but nope'd out because of no PSVR1 BC.
Just because something is old doesn't mean it's necessarily outdated or antiquated. But more importantly, it doesn't mean the new tech can't have BC with the old one.
Sony popularized BC with gaming, so for them to just give up on it for a 2nd-generation VR headset is....well, pathetic.
That's SIE's problem, then. Not having individual controllers to buy is going to be a longer-term problem; it's arguable an SKU without the controllers bundled in could sell for a cheaper price too. That way if a family member wants a 2nd headset but they'd be sharing controllers, they could save a bit of cash on the 2nd headset since they already have a pair of controllers to swap between them.
I usually chide people who bring up that "anti-consumer" BS when it comes to 3P exclusives and stuff, but for something like this, yeah, it's kinda anti-consumer SIE don't have non-bundled controllers you can buy.
They're NOWHERE near 2 million right now
, but sure let's suppose...So customers only get the option of choice when a certain period of time has passed for the product on the market, or after it sells a certain number of units?
What if the failure rate is higher than 10% Why would SIE not have considered designing the controllers to be more multi-faceted in usage? Isn't this the subsidiary that wants to increase profit margins?
The only thing I'd complain about then is that it took until PC support for SIE to do something that could've been considered from Day 1 on console. A controller-less SKU would've also helped with sensible adoption in a cheaper offering.
But many games let you turn off the DualSense features anyway. At which point, you might as well let users use DualShock 4 controllers to play those games.
The fact it isn't an option even in those cases is very sus. I mean let's just call it what it is: a way to forcibly funnel console owners to buy more DualSense controllers. SIE know they can't push that on PC players which is why PC ports of their own games don't mandate using a DualSense.
You'd think SIE would be able to promote PS5 games utilizing the DualSense the same way they'll likely ensure PS5 Pro games support certain options to be Pro-certified; are they going to then require console owners to buy a Pro to play PS5 games? Of course not.
So why are they required to only use DualSense to play PS5 games that allow them to disable DualSense features? You can't rationalize this in any way that doesn't make it look like a money-grab.
Yes that's right. But you need to consider that DualSense is required on the customer's end even when they have turned off the DualSense features!
That's the part that's iffy here.
For whom? You can't speak on behalf of other customers. A lot of them might be cool with using a Dual Shock 4 instead of DualSense for games where you can disable DualSense features.
Again, that's just a slice of the audience.
Okay fair enough; those two games I can see getting PSVR2 support at a later date. Even games like GT7 didn't have support Day 1.
But it would be nice for some out-of-the-box thinking to have VR modes of less conventional games like GOWR, Demon's Souls or Spiderman 2. Games where the VR support would need to get a bit more creative.
Nah a PSVR2 Pro won't work; for consoles a Pro model is one thing but VR headsets are way more niche. A large part of the base would probably just wait for a PSVR3.
As for pricing, it just depends on what SIE target for performance. They could easily make a "Super Enthusiast" model going for even more than $549, the performance & features just need to be there to justify it. If they're looking to save costs & release a cheaper version, they need to work on making the tech scalable & modular for difference lens types, offset onboard processing, certain ergonomics, audio/visual features, DOF, resolution & framerate support etc.
They can't assume that potential customers at the lower end of the pricing bracket would care about 8K resolution per eye & 240 Hz refresh. The "good enough" for that segment would be significantly lower, and a sensible platform holder (IMO) would try targeting that.
Well okay. But again, why does a PS5 owner need to have a PC at all to get video playback & media support on their PSVR2? They should be able to do that with just their PS5 console.
Katatonic
Member
I might pick up a refurbished PSVR1 from Amazon for the few games I care about which didn't get updated for PSVR2. I have a PS4 Pro, Move controllers plus nav, and Killzone 3 Move gun, so I should be set.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Unfortunately my Mac ain't supported anyway and I doubt it can run that lol
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
There'll be no PSVR3, ain't nobody buying that no matter how good it is, the people that would've bought it, i.e. me have been completely put off by Sony's complete lack of committment to it and the shocking inability to give it some more additional life outside of gaming i.e. give us a fucking media player so we can get some use out of it whilst waiting on some intermittent breadcrumbs from Sony
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I like how you imagine that these things are simple. First you have a headset that doesn't work based on cameras, you would have to engineer two entirely separate systems within the same headset to work with and without the camera and the same for the move controllers. That's $$$$.
See above. So you're asking for it to be even more expensive and yes people would have fussed.
You have to measure and weigh the economics of it. Sony got in tremendous trouble with the PS3 by making it BC with PS1 and PS2. They had to throw in an entire emotion engine and graphics synthesizer to get that to work, you got a free PS2 with the purchase of every PS3 and it wasn't worth it.
There is really no reason to have a 2nd set of controllers since it is only 1 player...
It would be anti consumer if they don't support replacement via warranty and out of warranty. Is that the case?
They're NOWHERE near 2 million right now
So customers only get the option of choice when a certain period of time has passed for the product on the market, or after it sells a certain number of units?
Are out of warranty replacements being rejected? Please provide evidence of this.
Above 10% failure rate within a year would probably trigger a recall lest it turn into a class action lawsuit....
As I said, you'd complain.
It's one thing to give the option to turn it off, it's another to have controllers that wouldn't support it at all.
All games moving forward will need to be certified for PS5 Pro. There are games that required the Analog controllers on the PS1. It's not a new practice. Try playing ape escape a PS1 controller that has no analog sticks.
Giving you options makes it iffy? You're hilarious.
See above.
Again, that's just a slice of the audience.
Okay fair enough; those two games I can see getting PSVR2 support at a later date. Even games like GT7 didn't have support Day 1.
But it would be nice for some out-of-the-box thinking to have VR modes of less conventional games like GOWR, Demon's Souls or Spiderman 2. Games where the VR support would need to get a bit more creative.
VR is in its infancy, what you're asking for is to put a lot of money into VR that isn't warranted by the userbase.
It can still be called a PSVR3, my point is that it could work with the PS5 and PS6 and release sooner.
Price is the biggest hurdle for adoption, the lower the price the better. Meta has proven that.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I can guarantee you there was no doing this in just software.
SportsFan581
Member
It is surprising they didn't offer media support from the beginning, they are one of the largest media companies. I'm sure they have a catalog of films with 3d adaptions they could make available on there, both from theaters and the old 3d TV push. And there is potential in 180/360 degree concerts and sporting events.
CitizenKratos
Member
Looks like there is a review out there and people may be getting the adapter already.