Sony open up M2 SSD port to beta testers of system software

longdi said:
Yeah Cerny said we needed >5.5GB/s ones, and it seems Sony have backtracked on this requirement. I wonder what could be the reasons now? 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...

This most likely:

  • Not all games are necessarily playable with the exact same performance provided by the PS5 console's internal Ultra-High Speed SSD, even where the M.2 SSD device's sequential read speed is faster than 5500MB/s.
Click to expand...
 
I think I'd still prefer a sticker on drives or not that clearly marks them as being 'certified' or whatever. The little clause at the end makes me worry, I guess I can let others be beta testers on reddit etc. first though. I'm really curious as to whether it will be a case of the drive works with all, or the drive works with some games but not others. That has potential to get a little spicy if so.

Anyway, I won't need one for a while atm so I'm good.
 
kuncol02 said:
That drive don't reach 5500MB/s in sequential read from what i see in tests.

Click to expand...


Good catch. I was filtering in Newegg just on advertised peak speed. Sony will definitely need to publish a list of SSDs that have been tested before this comes out of beta.
 
cormack12 said:
I think I'd still prefer a sticker on drives or not that clearly marks them as being 'certified' or whatever. The little clause at the end makes me worry, I guess I can let others be beta testers on reddit etc. first though. I'm really curious as to whether it will be a case of the drive works with all, or the drive works with some games but not others. That has potential to get a little spicy if so.

Anyway, I won't need one for a while atm so I'm good.
Click to expand...
Sony probably does this because the vast majority of games will be third party/multiplatform. At worst you'd be able to play most games off the m2 drive and have to use the internal drive for some PS5 first party games.
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
The phrasing of " You can freely move games between the PS5 console's storage, a connected USB extended storage device and the added M.2 SSD storage." makes me worry that the OS won't see the ssd as an extension of the console storage but as a separate unit.
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Well, that's pretty obvious.
 
This WD SN850 (without/with heatsink) will fit inside just fine. 7 GB/s read.

$120/$140 for 500 GB
$200/$250 for 1TB
$400/$430 for 2TB
5 year warranty.

Can always just add a 3rd party heatsink for $10 off Amazon if buying the naked model.

Seems like the best option.

shop.westerndigital.com

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD PCIe® Gen4 for PC or Laptop | Western Digital | Western Digital Store

Long load times are obsolete with next-gen PCIe® Gen4 technology. Arm your system with RGB lighting, an optional heatsink model, and up to 2TB1 capacity.
shop.westerndigital.com shop.westerndigital.com
 
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TrebleShot said:
Interesting, 3D audio on TV is huge, next surround set ups?
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People that expect fake 3D audio to be a big thing are just setting themselves up for disappointment. From shitty TV speakers it's got no chance of being even remotely believable.

On the SSDs, doing a beta of this is so incredibly weird. The console has been out for like 8 months, how have Sony themselves not tested it enough? Also the minimum required speed is a lot lower than some were told was absolutely necessary to run some PS games.
 
jasondefaoite said:
Cerny specifically mentioned SSDs would require speeds > 5.5GB/s due to the internal SSD having 6 levels of priority compared to that of 2 levels with NVMe. That's where the talk of 7GB/s came from. Nothing to do with compression.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but him being a technical guy with a history of under-promising and over delivering, he was likely - in all fairness - giving the worst case scenario.

The over provisioning for the ( PS5) OS as happens early in all gens - with ram and CPU reservation, and now 100GB storage it steals - provides a mechanism by which bandwidth and latency hiding can be invisibly achieved for the nvme expansion drives that are slower than the raw speed of the internal drive.

At the time of reveal, they probably hoped that faster/bigger nvme drives at lower costs would have followed a similar trend as before - in the PS3 gen when they started with 60gb HDD or less - which isn't happening now. leading them to remove any requirement for a working internal drive in the PS5 to help out, and being able to lower the OS provision heavily by the end of the generation.

The pandemic disrupting everything with rising costs - and slowing faster drive releasing sooner - probably meant that they are more worried about losing digital sales from PSN because of everyone's storage fully rammed - because of games like CoD - and have opted for a more complicated, less ideal solution needing a working internal nvme cache + external SSDs, to let users properly expand their storage for PS5 games now, with what is available/affordable.
 
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MrFunSocks said:
People that expect fake 3D audio to be a big thing are just setting themselves up for disappointment. From shitty TV speakers it's got no chance of being even remotely believable.

On the SSDs, doing a beta of this is so incredibly weird. The console has been out for like 8 months, how have Sony themselves not tested it enough? Also the minimum required speed is a lot lower than some were told was absolutely necessary to run some PS games.
Click to expand...
Saved money?
 
The extra storage finally coming to fruition is great. What I'm really waiting for more than anything is VRR and 1440p support.
 
MrFunSocks said:
People that expect fake 3D audio to be a big thing are just setting themselves up for disappointment. From shitty TV speakers it's got no chance of being even remotely believable.

On the SSDs, doing a beta of this is so incredibly weird. The console has been out for like 8 months, how have Sony themselves not tested it enough? Also the minimum required speed is a lot lower than some were told was absolutely necessary to run some PS games.
Click to expand...

They've probably tested it extensively on their end, but like with anything else you're testing you're not going to find all the issues on your own. That's why beta's exist.

Don't know why we're still entertaining this idea that PS5 games were ever not going to run on speeds slower than the internal drive. A few delusional people thought this was the case and that's it.
 
When they are talking about the possibility of inferior performance even if your drive meets the specs are they talking about loading times? Or actual game performance with framerates and DRS values?
 
MaKTaiL said:
Most likely PCie3

I'm kinda insulted for not being invited to the Beta. I signed up right when the registration opened. Oh well...
Click to expand...
I'm not insulted.. I'm kind bothered. I've owned every Playstation ever at launch including portables, play on it with the same username since PS2 days when there was no PSN but there was the "Underground" and never get any emails for promotions, PSN credits, or anything and I've signed up for everything they offer everywhere. Maybe they know I also have owned every XBOX system as well. Oh well, fact is, at some point, I'll be able to use an M.2 drive in the system.

Anywho, anyone know what the best heatsink for the WD SN850 would be?
I know this one would work, but.. is it the best that would fit in the system and be compatible with the drive?
 
kyliethicc said:
This WD SN850 with heatsink will fit inside just fine. 7 GB/s read.

$140 for 500 GB
$250 for 1TB
$430 for 2TB

5 year warranty.

Seems like the best option.

shop.westerndigital.com

WD_BLACK™ SN850 NVMe™ SSD PCIe® Gen4 for PC or Laptop | Western Digital | Western Digital Store

Long load times are obsolete with next-gen PCIe® Gen4 technology. Arm your system with RGB lighting, an optional heatsink model, and up to 2TB1 capacity.
shop.westerndigital.com shop.westerndigital.com

DIpt358.jpg
Click to expand...
Not sure about that. If you look at Sony's instructions they seem to require a larger heatsink than that. Top and bottom based on their images.
 
Lol those are some reqs. This in practice basically means few standard drives will work - you will need to get special ps5 drives (kind of like on xbox)

do you also have to get a certification to install it?
 
Last edited:
ManaByte said:
Not sure about that. If you look at Sony's instructions they seem to require a larger heatsink than that. Top and bottom based on their images.
Click to expand...
Don't worry about heatsink sizes. I bet the SSD will work just fine without it. Any heatsink will do a great job.
 
They definitely ran into issues getting this working, which is why it's a year late and there's a disclaimer that it may not perform as well as the internal SSD, regardless of the speed of the external drive.

I'd like to see something that takes advantage of the SSD like Ratchet run on the M.2 slot and compare performance.
 
cormack12 said:
If you experience problems while playing a game installed on M.2 SSD storage, move the game to the internal Ultra-High Speed console storage.
Click to expand...

1st party games = internal storage
3rd party games = m2 ssd storage

I expect only first party games (and 2nd party) to really take advantage of the speed of the ssd with their game design.
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
The phrasing of " You can freely move games between the PS5 console's storage, a connected USB extended storage device and the added M.2 SSD storage." makes me worry that the OS won't see the ssd as an extension of the console storage but as a separate unit.
Click to expand...

I think you are right. It will be a separate unit.
 
Good that Sony is finally opening this up. Will be interested in seeing what's actually supported and how they work.

Nvme ain't cheap but these should go down in price sooner than the Xbox Seagate drive... Though with chip shortages and all that it may take a while still.

Hope someone can test Ratchet and Clank on a low end pcie4 nvme that the PS5 accepts and see how it operates lol
 
ManaByte said:
Not sure about that. If you look at Sony's instructions they seem to require a larger heatsink than that. Top and bottom based on their images.
Click to expand...
ManaByte said:
More worried about the heat in the system. Sony made those heatsink specifications that detailed for a reason.
Click to expand...

Those are the MAXIMUM sizes of drive + heatsink that can fit inside the bay lol.. not minimums. Smaller is fine.

eRILuhz.jpg
 
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Bitmap Frogs said:
The phrasing of " You can freely move games between the PS5 console's storage, a connected USB extended storage device and the added M.2 SSD storage." makes me worry that the OS won't see the ssd as an extension of the console storage but as a separate unit.
Click to expand...
megreotsugua said:
I think you are right. It will be a separate unit.
Click to expand...

They literally confirm that is how it will work.

In the PS5 Storage settings there will be 3 separate storage install locations.

- Console Storage
- M.2 SSD Storage
- USB Extended Storage

Each can be used separately and games can be installed directly to any of these locations.
 
Great for people that hop between multiple games but I'm a one game at a time kind of guy. I'm over GaaS games completely. Just feels like work.
 
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jasondefaoite said:
Cerny specifically mentioned SSDs would require speeds > 5.5GB/s due to the internal SSD having 6 levels of priority compared to that of 2 levels with NVMe. That's where the talk of 7GB/s came from. Nothing to do with compression.
Click to expand...
I know, the document is stating what the requirements are. People rushed and jumped on the "must be >= 7 GB/s" conclusion and some used it to troll and get people riled up back and forth which was quite disingenuous.

I know what Sony said and why it makes sense we need a bit more than 5.5 GB/s from an off the shelves SSD. What they stated in this support document is interesting though still.
 
Finally, I can install COD.

All jokes aside, this is one more talking point that is being taken away from the usual suspects, now I just need to slap a 4TB SSD in this thing and call it a day.
 
longdi said:
Yeah Cerny said we needed >5.5GB/s ones, and it seems Sony have backtracked on this requirement. I wonder what could be the reasons now? 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...
He said a little bit over 5.5 GB/s and people said "must be 7 GB/s then" which is quite a lot more than "a bit" :LOL:.

The 7 GB/s figure was used as an example of why we should not be worried about drives that match or exceed the 5.5 GB/s speed requirement as NVMe PCI-E 4.0 drives can match 7+ GB/s of sequential read speed.
 
ManaByte said:
Not sure about that. If you look at Sony's instructions they seem to require a larger heatsink than that. Top and bottom based on their images.
Click to expand...

Where are they stating minimum size? I only see where they state the maximum size.

edit: kyliethicc kyliethicc already addressed. disregard
 
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Riky said:
When they are talking about the possibility of inferior performance even if your drive meets the specs are they talking about loading times? Or actual game performance with framerates and DRS values?
Click to expand...
Loading shit.
They recommend 5.5 but higher is preferred.
Lots of games that are out now don't take advantage of the SSD/IO, a shame but it is what it is. I don't think those games will load any differently.
 
Riky said:
When they are talking about the possibility of inferior performance even if your drive meets the specs are they talking about loading times? Or actual game performance with framerates and DRS values?
Click to expand...

Uninformed opinion here would suggest it's largely likely to be loading and pop in, right? I think the worse case pcie4x4 drive I can find is rated a peak 3.8gb.
 
Really interested in hearing the audio update and see the digital foundry tests on games off the m.2 compared to the internal ssd.
 
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reksveks said:
What happens to the argument that games are being fundamentally designed for a 7GB/s ssd but then are able to run on something slower? I would love to see Rachet running off a slower SSD's to see the real-world difference.
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Why would this be a negative? It allows more compatibility for drives.
 
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