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Sony Reports Q3 FY12 Results - $2 Billion Loss, 6.5 M PS3's Shipped [Shares up 13%]
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Brofist
Member
Or maybe stores are already stocked and there is no demand for it atm? I think that's more likely no?
Well they finally sold past their initial shipment so they had to send more out. Its just likely that the next shipment was nowhere near the 500K in the first.
They only report shipments from the previous quarter, this quarter they will ship to NA and PAL so I'd expect it to be higher than 500k.
CadetMahoney
Member
staticneuron
Member
SlipperySlope
Banned
I honestly can't see the positive myself, from a financial point of view. Blu-Ray cost them billions on the PS3, and they still have not come close to recouping that. Billions they could really use today.
It's odd that they couldn't be bothered to include a forecast for Vita hardware for the fiscal year. It launches in 3 weeks, so they obviously have a pretty good idea of what they will be shipping at launch by this point. Not mentioning a forecast gives the impression that the number will be small enough that they didn't feel like mentioning it.
In any case, it is strange that they didn't include any forecast for Vita for their fiscal year, particularly since it will be released worldwide within this fiscal year.
It is strange, they even updated the Cumulative Software Titles with Vita after Q2, but they haven't added it to the Unit Sales categories yet. We know it should be around 500k though (Hong Kong/Taiwan won't be much), so it's not a big deal. I expect they'll add it after the WW launch this quarter.
Why does Microsoft have any debt when they have over $50 Billion in cash?
charlequin
Banned
Your theories on what eight-steps-removed businesses the tanking of the PlayStation business will magically deliver to Sony are getting more and more out there!
Off the top of my head: they're a multinational so their cash-equivalent assets are spread all over the globe and doing business in a given country with credit will sometimes be cheaper than the transactional losses on moving it between currencies/countries; some portion of their cash-equivalent assets may be in forms that they want to avoid liquidating for regular business expenses for various reasons; Microsoft has an immaculate credit rating and issuing cheap debt can let them raise cash to pay out dividends without dipping directly into their strategic cash reserves to do so, with the assumption that they can easily pay it and the minuscule interest off at a later date when there's less need to directly court investors.
bigtroyjon
Member
They only have 2.35 billion of actual cash, the rest of the "cash" is short term investments that could be easily converted to cash so they are considered cash for accounting purposes. Instead of converting it into cash when they need to pay out dividends, want to buy back stock or buy a company(Skype), they just borrow money at cheap rates and keep their money invested.
That debt is cheap enough that they might be making more money on their investments than it costs them to borrow it.
MS breakdown of their cash/equivalents
Edit-One thing I just noticed is that they have 12 billion in other companies' debt. Since not many other companies have their financial strength, they are going to be getting a higher interest rate on that debt than they pay out on their own. So essentially they are acting like a bank, borrowing money from other sources and then lending out that money to others.
sony is too big to fail
if they go into bankrupcy japan will pump in japanese tax moniz
You explained that very well. Makes perfect sense. Thanks.
Thank you.
If the japanese government actually do this they will but only ensure the downfall of a greater portion of their economy... Then again American and Europe do it so why not the rest of the world
Yeah, but they're still expecting a profit in operating income for the year. The huge loss is due to an expected massive write-down from their purchase of Sanyo.
Even so, the high-end TV business is a just a lousy place to be right now. Low-end sets are plenty good enough these days for the vast majority of consumers.
They are not theories if those BR investments, transactions and expenses are announced, happening for real, and recorded, as we speak. Theories are those what-ifs and maybes that people imagined if PS3 has no BR. Playstation business will have its own set of challenges and opportunities to address naturally. How much BR will take in is also an open issue.
Don't give me a reason to be a [insert non Sony console name here] fanboy!!!
Posters note: I pay taxes in Japan.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Not a chance. Toyota maybe... Sony nope.
Sony probably shipped 500K in Asia in Q3.
Not bad but not good.
Not that shipment for the first 2/3 weeks in Asia can really telling much.
It's more curious that Sony seems haven't shared their expectation though.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Lol. You sure show your ignorance in this post.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Yes they will. They barely consider Sony Japanese at the moment.
'Sacrifice' implies that Sony did this deliberately.
There's practically no way that is the case. Sony aren't dumb, they would have crunched the numbers - There's no way that Blu-Ray royalities made up for the money they lost on the PS3. It's a nice little money spinner, but nothing humongous. Sony thought they could have their cake and eat it too.
Here's a post I made a couple of years back:
Here are some further updated numbers through the end of 2010: http://www.degonline.org/pressreleases/2011/f_Q410.pdf
350 million Blu-Ray Discs at 4c a pop adds up to $14 million in royalties on discs to the end of 2010 in the US.
28.5 million units (this includes all PS3 sales by the way, so that probably doesn't count. But we'll include them anyway). At $3 a player that's $85.5 million.
So overall we're at $99.5 million to the end of 2010 for Sony in the US. And I think the US is a pretty large chunk of the HD home entertainment industry (I have no idea about the numbers, but 30% AT LEAST wouldn't surprise me).
I tried getting 2011 figures but I could only find
Now obviously these figures are just estimates and will be off (for example, the royalty rates used to be higher, but that was when sales were lower, and this might be offset a little by the fact that I calculated everything at 1/3 when the real rate is lower). Either way, you get the idea - it wasn't worth it.
Sony is after more than just BR royalties. They knew from their "failed" Betamax experience that you can make money elsewhere from a "standard" platform: http://seekingalpha.com/article/617...aulty-conclusion-from-the-vhs-betamax-war-sne
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
You are so ignorant.
people are bringing up the bluray issue again and again.its like they don't read or wont.the only department that's dragging Sony down is the TV business and they are fixing that right now and will be able to post a profit next year.
Serious?
well actually the biggest contributor in profit are bluray players and Sony has a market share of over 40% in NA and Europe.the sold more than 8 million unit in 2010 only
.yes according to Kaz Hirai.its the only department thats dragging the Company down i am sure he knows more than all of us
.lets see why the Sony stock raises by 8% in the stock market the biggest for a japanese company in a year.i wonder why is that
Sony Up 8% Despite Expected Y220bn Net Loss For FY11
TOKYO (NQN)--Shares in Sony Corp. (6758) jumped at the open Friday, a day after the electronics giant said it will likely post a net loss of 220 billion yen for the year ending March.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477971&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
Sony Up 8% Despite Expected Y220bn Net Loss For FY11
TOKYO (NQN)--Shares in Sony Corp. (6758) jumped at the open Friday, a day after the electronics giant said it will likely post a net loss of 220 billion yen for the year ending March.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477971&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
sorry for the people who expect the company to scrap PS4 plans or go out of business its just not happening.and they already project an operating profit of 200 billion yen the next fiscal year already according to Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato (check the bolded)
Sony Surges Amid Optimism New CEO Hirai Will Revive Company: Tokyo Mover
The maker of Walkman music players, Cyber-shot cameras and PlayStation 3 game consoles will close less-competitive businesses and review its portfolio, Hirai, who will replace Howard Stringer as CEO on April 1, told reporters yesterday. Sony more than doubled its full-year loss forecast yesterday to 220 billion yen ($2.9 billion), blaming a stronger yen, cuts in production caused by floods in Thailand and the cost of exiting a display-panel venture with Samsung (005930) Electronics Co.
“The shares are rising on expectations that the company will be on track for rebuilding,” Makoto Sengoku, a market analyst at Tokai Tokyo Securities Co., said by phone. “All the bad factors have already been reflected.”
Sony can reward shareholders by narrowing its portfolio, Hirai said in his first meeting with reporters after being named to lead the company. He didn’t elaborate. Hirai said he will present his business plans later, though he reaffirmed his commitment to TVs.
‘Step Forward’
“Unless we steer drastically toward reform, we may confront a situation where decision-making comes with enormous pain,” Hirai said yesterday in his first interaction with reporters after he was named to lead the company. “If we hold back, we cannot take a step forward.”
The world’s third-largest maker of televisions may project an operating profit of about 200 billion yen in the fiscal year that starts in April as the company won’t repeat one-time costs that hurt profits this year, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said yesterday.
This year, Sony had one-time losses of about 70 billion yen because of Japan’s March 11 earthquake, as much as 70 billion yen because of the Thai floods, and 63 billion yen from the sale of its stake in the Samsung venture, Kato said.
Hirai, 51, who worked in Sony’s music and entertainment divisions, established his reputation by turning around the PlayStation unit and edged out three other candidates with engineering backgrounds for the top job. Stringer, 69, will become chairman of the board after a shareholders meeting in June, Sony said earlier this week.
‘Sense of Urgency’
“We weren’t able to select areas where we want to concentrate, so we ended up keeping products that became commoditized,” Hirai said. “We want to make our focus clear soon.”
During a joint news conference yesterday, Hirai reaffirmed his commitment to TVs. The world’s No. 3 maker is maintaining a sales target of 20 million sets, though the business may lose between 220 billion yen and 230 billion yen, including the cost of exiting the venture with Samsung, Kato said.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477981&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
Sony Surges Amid Optimism New CEO Hirai Will Revive Company: Tokyo Mover
The maker of Walkman music players, Cyber-shot cameras and PlayStation 3 game consoles will close less-competitive businesses and review its portfolio, Hirai, who will replace Howard Stringer as CEO on April 1, told reporters yesterday. Sony more than doubled its full-year loss forecast yesterday to 220 billion yen ($2.9 billion), blaming a stronger yen, cuts in production caused by floods in Thailand and the cost of exiting a display-panel venture with Samsung (005930) Electronics Co.
“The shares are rising on expectations that the company will be on track for rebuilding,” Makoto Sengoku, a market analyst at Tokai Tokyo Securities Co., said by phone. “All the bad factors have already been reflected.”
Sony can reward shareholders by narrowing its portfolio, Hirai said in his first meeting with reporters after being named to lead the company. He didn’t elaborate. Hirai said he will present his business plans later, though he reaffirmed his commitment to TVs.
‘Step Forward’
“Unless we steer drastically toward reform, we may confront a situation where decision-making comes with enormous pain,” Hirai said yesterday in his first interaction with reporters after he was named to lead the company. “If we hold back, we cannot take a step forward.”
The world’s third-largest maker of televisions may project an operating profit of about 200 billion yen in the fiscal year that starts in April as the company won’t repeat one-time costs that hurt profits this year, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said yesterday.
This year, Sony had one-time losses of about 70 billion yen because of Japan’s March 11 earthquake, as much as 70 billion yen because of the Thai floods, and 63 billion yen from the sale of its stake in the Samsung venture, Kato said.
Hirai, 51, who worked in Sony’s music and entertainment divisions, established his reputation by turning around the PlayStation unit and edged out three other candidates with engineering backgrounds for the top job. Stringer, 69, will become chairman of the board after a shareholders meeting in June, Sony said earlier this week.
‘Sense of Urgency’
“We weren’t able to select areas where we want to concentrate, so we ended up keeping products that became commoditized,” Hirai said. “We want to make our focus clear soon.”
During a joint news conference yesterday, Hirai reaffirmed his commitment to TVs. The world’s No. 3 maker is maintaining a sales target of 20 million sets, though the business may lose between 220 billion yen and 230 billion yen, including the cost of exiting the venture with Samsung, Kato said.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477981&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
NemesisPrime
Banned
My wife is Japanese.
to summarize the reasons for this year loss is as followed:
This year, Sony had one-time losses of about 70 billion yen because of Japans March 11 earthquake, as much as 70 billion yen because of the Thai floods, and 63 billion yen from the sale of its stake in the Samsung venture, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said.. and that's equal a whopping one off loss of = 203 billion yen .and this year whole loss is 220 billion yen.
This year, Sony had one-time losses of about 70 billion yen because of Japans March 11 earthquake, as much as 70 billion yen because of the Thai floods, and 63 billion yen from the sale of its stake in the Samsung venture, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said.. and that's equal a whopping one off loss of = 203 billion yen .and this year whole loss is 220 billion yen.
next year operating profit around 200 billion yen
The worlds third-largest maker of televisions may project an operating profit of about 200 billion yen in the fiscal year that starts in April as the company wont repeat one-time costs that hurt profits this year, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said yesterday.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477981&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
The worlds third-largest maker of televisions may project an operating profit of about 200 billion yen in the fiscal year that starts in April as the company wont repeat one-time costs that hurt profits this year, Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato said yesterday.
http://www.wikinvest.com/wikinvest/api.php?action=viewNews&aid=3477981&page=Stock%3ASony_%28SNE%29&format=html&comments=0
well actually the biggest contributor in profit are bluray players and Sony has a market share of over 40% in NA and Europe.the sold more than 8 million unit in 2010 only
... for now. Sony also knew that consumer devices will get commoditized quickly. The professional markets are more stable. So they are also targeting the professional media industry and the medical imaging sector. Google for Blu-ray and medical imaging, you'll see some early products starting around 2009.
Sony is the symbol of Japan electronic industry.the same with Samsung who are supported by the South Korean government.the Japanese government will support them whatever happens.they are just too big to fail like GM,MS and other companies who cant be allowed to fail.
what do you think of Kazi Hirai patsu?.he is making all the right noises i wished that Sony gave him the job earlier.he really understand the market and the need of unifiying your offering and not producing so many look alike products.check this quote from him finally a guy who gets it.
We werent able to select areas where we want to concentrate, so we ended up keeping products that became commoditized, Hirai said. We want to make our focus clear soon.
National governments generally aren't in the business of bailing out consumer electronics firms.
They're not even as big as Hitachi or Matsushita.
Pureauthor
Member
Dude, Edit button.
That or just make sure you have all your information together the first time you post. The thread isn't moving fast enough to require multiposting stuff like that.
CadetMahoney
Member
permed then shaved bald with lipstick all over your face. Some ppl are still in denial and expect a rocky-esque comeback. Hard to believe the year-on-year unrealistic optimism at this point, but despite all the evidence to the contrary threads would be boring without them.
Going into next gen MS has the opportunity to take a financial risk with making xbox3 a real powerhouse whereas Sony would be much more cautious.
AdventureRacing
Member
Seriously within a span of like 12 posts 9 of them are his.
i was replying to patsu and added a quote to see what he think about it.i didnt repeat any posts maybe one (summary, as people may not like a wall of text).but okay i will try to cut back a little if you wish
Panasonic arent having a nice time either, they are predicting a quarterly loss of $9.2 billion
and yet, they're still more likely to be considered a 'symbol of Japan electronic industry'. Not that it would make any difference.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Actually... it is funny that you say that. Most Japanese I know seem to consider Panasonic *the* electronics company not Sony. But I have to be honest here... most Japanese that I know are from Osaka... the home of Panasonic.
Too big to fail only means that the company can't be allowed to fail.