LordOcidax
Member
And that's why Nintendo formula still working these days… Sony needs to start making less AAA games, game development costs are crazy.
Sony Totoki COO: "A big problem of SIE is they don't have a deep understanding of how their work is being translated to growth
Roman Empire
Member
Sony was like this all this time:
"We doing great guys. I'm just not sure what we doing, but it worked it out well enough so far."
"We doing great guys. I'm just not sure what we doing, but it worked it out well enough so far."
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Their consumers carried them on their backs this gen like Jesus carried the cross. Raising prices of games and systems, lackluster PS+ offerings, ugliest system design of all time, remasters or safe sequels galore, barely anything 1st party for 2 years, worst gaming marketing events in PS history, PSVR2 being an overpriced wired waste with no games, PS Portal existing, fans massively exaggerating all negative aspects of the competition 24/7. The people that really deserve the credit for this win are the PS fans themselves more than even Sony.Sony was like this all this time:
"We doing great guys. I'm just not sure what we doing, but it worked it out well enough so far."
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Seeing the fiscal results makes this message from the CEO understandable.
You announce record income results and then 5% margin profits.... What can happen when those record incomes are not achieved?
The options to reverse this situation are clear. The same ones that are being seen throughout the industry and Sony was no stranger: -Layoffs. -Studios closure -Reduction of AAA projects -Launch in more plataforms day one. -Bet on Gass.
Simply what we have been seeing for several years now. Now we only have those responsible admitting this obvious situation.
You announce record income results and then 5% margin profits.... What can happen when those record incomes are not achieved?
The options to reverse this situation are clear. The same ones that are being seen throughout the industry and Sony was no stranger: -Layoffs. -Studios closure -Reduction of AAA projects -Launch in more plataforms day one. -Bet on Gass.
Simply what we have been seeing for several years now. Now we only have those responsible admitting this obvious situation.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
If GaaS reach their reckoning then they're screwed. All their resources going to a popular trend in gaming. Buying studios to have their games sit for years on end and then not reach their financial goals will cost them in the long run.
GHG
Member
Yep. It's looking increasingly stupid for them to have shut down and/or reduced their Japanese development and operations teams.
Interfectum
Member
Sony just needs to keep kneeling at the alter of Gaben with day 1 releases on Steam and they will reap the rewards.
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Reading through the actual quote and I think people are being a bit too pessimistic when it comes to conversations around layoffs etc.
It's really just the standard message of studios being more responsible with expenses and employees joining hands with leadership to reduce cost. So not necessarily layoffs, but stuff like rationalizing company sponsored flights and overseas trips, payments for licenses that aren't needed etc.
You'd be surprised there's probably studios paying fees for software last used 2 games ago, for example.
It's really just the standard message of studios being more responsible with expenses and employees joining hands with leadership to reduce cost. So not necessarily layoffs, but stuff like rationalizing company sponsored flights and overseas trips, payments for licenses that aren't needed etc.
You'd be surprised there's probably studios paying fees for software last used 2 games ago, for example.
TrippleA345
Member
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Thank you for recognising all my effort
Mibu no ookami
Banned
We'll see about this too. I think there is a lot of talk from the hardcore PC gamers out there on this topic, but I think ultimately Sony will launch a strong push against Steam as an expansion of their PlayStation ecosystem on PC.
Where others have failed, they did not have the leverage that Sony has with PlayStation. Not their first party output or levers around royalties, or the money to really pursue exclusives.
Steam has never had a serious competitor.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Not necessarily embolden them, but paint a view of where success can be found in the right areas.
This game isn't as modest as you think. It's also a 40 dollar release and it's also strictly multiplayer, which is going to cause higher concurrent users. It was in development for 8 years and launched day and date on PC.
God of War did very well on PC and will continue to do so. Same with Spider-Man.
Pelta88
Member
Momentum and mindshare isn't quantifiable.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
It's honestly true lol. You guys overperformed big time.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Stay tuned cause i'm only getting started
Aces High
Member
The C Suite knows.
In every company, you have 20% of people doing 80% of the work.
Corporations hire like crazy in good times to find more of the 20% guys.
When good times end, they get rid of the 80%.
Astray
Member
True.
I think one of Sony and Microsoft's biggest issues is in how much they ignored the kid-friendly market in pursuit of the cinematic and grown-up category.
Nintendo is basically running unopposed there with zero competition.
a multicultural team of v
Member
The quote is 100% about costs so the constant port begging isn't entirely relevant - they could be spending way too much create the PC ports too lol
Part of me wonders if their live service push failed not just because it was ill advised (I think it partially was for sure), but because the studios handling them just completely mismanaged the budgets and schedules to the point where they simply weren't salvageable. The same push with studios that were tightly run and financially prudent may have produced very different results. This is probably a pervasive culture problem brought on by years of massive success coupled with hiring quality going down the toilet as they hire more and more people to hit metrics unrelated to actually doing work. I frankly think Playstation is in for a few very painful years (behind the scenes), but once they come out of it they will probably be in a position similar to where they were at the start of the PS4.
Part of me wonders if their live service push failed not just because it was ill advised (I think it partially was for sure), but because the studios handling them just completely mismanaged the budgets and schedules to the point where they simply weren't salvageable. The same push with studios that were tightly run and financially prudent may have produced very different results. This is probably a pervasive culture problem brought on by years of massive success coupled with hiring quality going down the toilet as they hire more and more people to hit metrics unrelated to actually doing work. I frankly think Playstation is in for a few very painful years (behind the scenes), but once they come out of it they will probably be in a position similar to where they were at the start of the PS4.
Yeah I mean the quote could be read two ways, one is that they need to cut half their expenses, the other is that they could be making twice the number of games with the same expenses. I'd imagine they would lean towards the second one since more games mean more sales, but there will definitely be cuts of some type.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Factions would have basically been an MMO with your typical AAA single player productions values. Post launch they would need to keep dishing out AAA production value content
Was destined to fail to be honest
Aaron Olive
Member
He needs cut the cancer that is Sweetbaby.....
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sounds like someone at Sony sabotaging their own most profitable business.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Sony and Microsoft never really competed in that market to begin with. Mario and Pokemon are two of the biggest gaming franchises ever. To dedicate yourself to that space without dedicating yourself to that space isn't really profitable.
I think you're reaching mate. They're spending too much on PC ports? Where do you get that idea from? Nixxes software is up 6% in staff on linkedin in the last 6 months. That's note what sounds like a reduction in cost for PC ports. Rather they're staffing up to do more. Everything you said was pure speculation.
It could mean a lot more than two things. Totoki is all about growth.
"I'm very much obsessed with growth. It's very important for any company to get growth to maintain people's motivation and maintain the customer," Totoki told the Morgan Stanley Technology, Media & Telecom Conference.
You can't grow just by getting smaller. But that doesn't mean making double the games for the same resources either. Unfortunately for gamers it probably means things like MTX and more DLC and other forms of monetization. I think it means shorter games, more PC ports, more profitable endeavors like doubling down on peripherals. I think it means a PlayStation handheld. I think it means a PC Storefront. Otherwise to generate revenue. I think it means more movies and TV to boost IP.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Reminder: Helldivers 2 (GAAS) is PlayStations biggest surprise hit on PS5.
GAAS isn't a trend. GAAS is inevitable.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I own Helldivers 2 too. It's a ton of fun. It's just a small fraction of what I personally spend money on and it was cheaper than the $70 games I usually get. I guess that's not what they're exactly looking at.
midnightAI
Member
Fake
Member
'Destined' or Destiny. Destiny dev giving a word about their project was their doom.
solidus12
Member
Fewer
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The margins are trash compared to the other divisions lol. Not suprised this is happening.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
It's funny how Xbox gamers can find a million things wrong with PlayStation but defend Microsoft's poor output for nearly a decade.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
They're looking at what exceeds expectations and what fails to meet expectations.
Helldivers 2 will outearn Returnal, Deathloop, and Forespoken by 10x.
PlayStation will see this and allocate future resources accordingly. GAAS is growth.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
It's just my taste is different. I like MS output. I didn't like PS output. Did you want me to lie about it? Last gen I liked PS output and hated MS output.
I preferred Xbox this gen in terms of the system, the services, and the games. Everyone on here knows that. I literally had a PS5 for a year before I got an Xbox this gen, and only tried it because I hated the PS5. Almost no one on here says anything good about Xbox, because you have different taste but you're doing the same thing. I've only had an Xbox for the last 3 years, not a decade.
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//DEVIL//
Member
Good. So much woke, purple dudes and fight for diversity these companies have to deal and put up with to the point it's really affecting the talent and they are leaving. If I know my worth and I am a good dev, then fuck you I'll make my own games if I want to. Companies need the talent not the other way around. That's why so many indie games now.
It's been what 4 or 5 years since naughty dog released a really high profile game ? They are infested with these cockroach people. Side loading a remaster under the name of remake and slapping a naughty dog name isn't really a naughty dog project.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
So you make excuses for MS because your taste is different? Sounds about right.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Sorry I didn't like PS5. Triggered loser.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Giving bad takes is not being triggered. People are legit laughing at you.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
No one is laughing at anything. There's a couple triggered PS fanboys that leave emojis in place of an argument. Sad, angry people that sit alone and get upset if someone doesn't like PS.
Fabieter
Member
Imo their own launcher is way too late. That ship has sailed.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Oh, people are laughing. You just don't realize it. You don't have to like PS, your take was just hilariously bad.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Oh dang, people are laughing. I better pretend PS5 wasn't the worst PS console I've ever owned so they like me.
a multicultural team of v
Member
I also think their decision to move away from Japanese first party devs was a very bad one, not just because it meant less "Japanese games" but purely from a financial standpoint. The yen has been absolutely pitiful compared to the USD and EUR for years now, meaning any games they create using Japanese yen but sell to people paying dollars or euros would essentially be making them 20-40% more money simply due to the currency exchange rate and nothing else. Even if they kept their Japanese studios and had them only assist with other gaming projects that would be significant labor and overhead costs they could pay in yen instead.
Well yeah true, but if they had some crazy efficient team (like the Spiderman 1 Insomniac team or something) it might have worked. Maybe.
Well yeah it is entirely speculation lol, but I'm just saying we don't know just how poorly the studios have been managed. You can't grow by getting smaller but you also can't grow by continuing to spend wildly but to a bigger audience because that just reinforces bad culture and pushes the can down the road. I think you are absolutely correct in that their future is going to be more things like movies/TVs/peripherals/events like Evo, etc. Gaming will probably expand to new platforms but I think they need to get their house in order before they can even appropriately staff and budget those efforts. But maybe Nixxes is solid and they can lean on them, I dunno.
drganon
Member
I'm laughing at how whiney you are.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
This isn't how you feel about being a PS5 owner. You're talking about how consumers feel about the PS5 brand. That's what makes it an awful take.
You can try to switch it up and pretend like you were talking about your own experience as a PS5 owner, but it's not going to work.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Comparing margins between Sony Corp divisions for Q1 - Q3
GN&S - 5.81%
Pictures - 8%
Music - 19.39%
ET&S - 10.09%
I&SS - 13.19%
Financial - 13.44%
Broooooooooo PlayStation is going to get fucked
GN&S - 5.81%
Pictures - 8%
Music - 19.39%
ET&S - 10.09%
I&SS - 13.19%
Financial - 13.44%
Broooooooooo PlayStation is going to get fucked
Mibu no ookami
Banned
That's actually exactly how you can grow.
The problem Sony has is similar to Microsoft's.
The console audience isn't growing fast enough. Sony has to look at it's businesses separately.
The HW business and the royalties it produces and the software development though it drives HW sales, it's a separate business.
It's not hard to tell which business isn't high enough margin and how to fix it.
That's why they're focusing on producing more on other platforms PC, not Xbox, because PC will be the savior of the software development margins. PC releases are pure margin. The growth of the software development operating income will reinforce the strength of hardware sales.
As such I don't think you necessarily need to do mass layoffs, though cuts in some areas might be warranted, they need to expand development to be more consistent on PC. No excuse for certain titles not to be on PC at this point, but poor Nixxes can only do so much.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Comparing margins between Sony Corp divisions for Q1 - Q3
GN&S - 5.81%
Pictures - 8%
Music - 19.39%
ET&S - 10.09%
I&SS - 13.19%
Financial - 13.44%
Broooooooooo PlayStation is going to get fucked
Context matters a lot here. Sony recently bought Bungie and the costs related to that are going to reduce margins. If Marathon is a massive hit, Sony's purchase will be validated. We'll know in 2025.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Literally all you've done is insult me for liking Xbox and disliking PS. "Making excuses" as you put it. Now you've circled back to just repeating what I said in the 1st post. Yes, everyone that can read English can see I hated the PS5, explained with a few quick points some examples of why I think it's a disappointing product and then gave credit for the total domination of the system to PS fans.
Ass of Can Whooping
saw that and read it correctly right after. Thanks for just literally repeating what I said. If I said anything about how PS fans feel, I said they love the system - literally giving them credit in my post for supporting it.Just blocking you. Easier for everyone this way.
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a multicultural team of v
Member
PC releases are only pure margin if console sales are unaffected. Sony taking a 20% cut of every single game sold on a Playstation console is also pure margin, which they would lose if people switch. I say if they switch because history has shown that they probably won't, but as time goes on I'm not so sure if that will continue to be the case, especially when it comes to younger teen to adult gamers.
Of course if they make their own PC store then they have a new avenue of taking a 20% cut on software, but history has also shown that PC gamers are allergic to anything but Steam.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Playing the victim is what you guys do best.Literally all you've done is insult me for liking Xbox and disliking PS. "Making excuses" as you put it. Now you've circled back to just repeating what I said in the 1st post. Yes, everyone that can read English can see I hated the PS5, explained with a few quick points some examples of why I think it's a disappointing product and then gave credit for the total domination of the system to PS fans.
Just blocking you. Easier for everyone this way.
You're saying fans are supporting PlayStation despite all the problems you listed. The issue is that people don't see it the same way as you do and that's the problem with your rant.