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[vas_a_morir]

Good. I hope they offend all devoted muslims. And all other religions while they're at it. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't.

Dat ban-protection option-select. That's pro-level gaffing.

Anyway, you gotta do you. I applaud their courage. *

*(I can do an option-select, too)

 

[KmA]

Muslims aren't the minority everywhere in the world, and the comics are often sparked by or specific to global practices and events. Peaceful Muslims of France were never the target of the comics, but every reader was meant to think about who was the target of the satire.

Well Muslims are definitely a minority in France. And "peaceful" Muslims (would have just preferred Muslims) are the ones who get hurt the most by these comics even if they are not the intended audience.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't publish their works. I just think that if their intention is "fuck you terrorists" then they are a little off base doing this by offending everyone.

Being offended should not be equated to being "hurt," and creating a terrible slippery slope. I hope them and more people release tons of drawings and both offend and don't offend people. Part of the caveat of enjoying the freedoms of or communicating with the western world and Freedom of Speech is both having the right to offend and be offended. I don't give a shit if you or anyone else feel "hurt" by mere words or pictures, as long as they are not a direct threat to your safety.

And the notion of people being "hurt" by seeing someone draw a picture of their god, someone who isn't even part of the same religion, is so fucking disheartening. Especially when discussion of their poor, poor feelings bleed into discussions of freedom of speech and legalities. The same right for you to protest the government, speak your mind, form grassroots, etc, is the same right for you to deal with other people not respecting your beliefs and drawing pictures that offend you.

I wasn't talking about hurt feelings. I was talking about actual hurt. These comics are the types of things that incite school bullying of young Muslim kids and Mosques that get vandalized. Maybe not advertently, but it creates a stigma about Muslims. It conflates Muslim and terrorist.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Well Muslims are definitely a minority in France. And "peaceful" Muslims (would have just preferred Muslims) are the ones who get hurt the most by these comics even if they are not the intended audience.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't publish their works. I just think that if their intention is "fuck you terrorists" then they are a little off base doing this by offending everyone.

Eh, fuck em. People shit on other religions daily and they just go on with their lives. If you can't handle it, then a democracy is probably not the place for you.

 

[soul creator]

I'm talking about people that are racist and commit hate crimes. They will get the feeling that all of these people marching down the street holding posters of Muhammad think the same way they do.

If we're using the line of logic that's common in these discussions that says religious people should not be responsible for those who abuse the words of their religion to commit horrible actions, then it seems to follow that some cartoonists and free-speech advocates should not be responsible for the actions of some deranged right-wingers who use it as cover for their horrible actions.

 

[monome]

But the French were part of a coalition that bombed the shit out of Libya as well as being involved in Afghanistan.

.

Since WWII inteventionism is very controlled.
The countries You state have faced great turmoil long before we sent troops.
That said France dors support a certain way of life.
When it comes to helping maintain human rights alive I m okay with it. It is of course hard to make omelet without breaking eggs. And easier to Say that when leaving far away from the bombs we drop.
I doubt we spend money and men abroad for only but good reasons.
You think I support each and every décision? I dont.

But the lesser evil is trying to encourage and help moderate actions from foreign factions/governments. Which we do

PS: Leaving the thread to spend time with my GF.
It s Nice to talk. Whatever You Guys say. Not looking forward for a Blood covered future. But Just in case I m better off cuddling my girl than discussing geopolitics. Tho i like both.

 

[reckless]

Well Muslims are definitely a minority in France. And "peaceful" Muslims (would have just preferred Muslims) are the ones who get hurt the most by these comics even if they are not the intended audience.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying they shouldn't publish their works. I just think that if their intention is "fuck you terrorists" then they are a little off base doing this by offending everyone.

How are they hurt by the cartoons? Don't read the magazine and they don't get "hurt".

They use satire, they are supposed to be offensive and provocative, people need to learn to deal with it like rational adults.

 

[Irminsul]

I'm talking about people that are racist and commit hate crimes. They will get the feeling that all of these people marching down the street holding posters of Muhammad think the same way they do.

So in what way are satirists responsible for the misconceptions of other people?

I mean, if you say "normal" Muslims should (have to) distance themselves from extremists, then it's only logical for you to expect similar things from satirists, but I don't think either should be the case.

EDIT: soul creator put my thoughts in different words, but quicker.

 

[gutter_trash]

the notion of nuance has been totally lost

 

[Slowdive]

Here's the cover:

 

[ComputerMKII]

Here's the cover:

Nice

 

[Nicktendo86]

Translation?

 

[reckless]

Here's the cover:

That's a great cover.

 

[Pacbois]

Translation?

"Everything is forgiven"

 

[Funky Papa]

Edit: What Pacbois said.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Thanks guys. Great cover.

 

[Raist]

Translation?

All is forgiven

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Here's the cover:

?

 

[perfectchaos007]

Muhammad is Charlie Hebdo. Awesome

 

[kmax]

Here's the cover:

Man, that's a sad cover....

The deceased artists just popped to mind.

Translation of headline: All is forgiven.

 

[SummitAve]

Being offended implies some sort of intelligence. I don't believe people who use political/social commentary as an excuse for violence are genuinely offended by it. They don't even understand it. So I don't really see the problem.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Love it.

That color of green is one I see in many flags of Islamic countries. Does it have a specific meaning? Is this intentional?

Being offended implies some sort of intelligence. I don't believe people who use political/social commentary as an excuse for violence are genuinely offended by it. They don't even understand it. So I don't really see the problem.

Being offended only implies an inflated sense of self-importance. No intelligence necessary. Going to go out on a limb and say they genuinely found the materials to be objectionable.

 

[Kinyou]

Can't believe they're gonna insult all devoted Muslims to send the middle finger to some extremist terrorists. They have no integrity.

Actually that they keep mocking Mohammed like usual is very integer.

Love it.

That color of green is one I see in many flags of Islamic countries. Does it have a specific meaning? Is this intentional?

AFAIK is green regarded as the color of Islam.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Love it.

That color of green is one I see in many flags of Islamic countries. Does it have a specific meaning? Is this intentional?

It's the color of Islam. (In the West it's the color of hope.)

 

[monome]

Here's the cover:

Boom.

Good night and sweet dreams You all.

 

[Scoot McNairy]

That cover is amazing. Nailed it.

 

[vas_a_morir]

It's the color of Islam. (In the West it's the color of hope.)

I figured so, but it's always safer to ask if you are an outsider as to not invite unsolicited indignation.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Incredible cover.

 

[Bomber Bob]

Here's the cover:

Not bad!

 

[LegendofLex]

Ugh. Jokes done in poor taste ARE their goddamn message. That's the whole point.

How about I put it less gently: I'll have to see if what they're putting out is actually hate speech (incitement of national, racial, and/or religious hatred) or satire (use of humor, irony, or ridicule to expose and criticize).

 

[The perfect Dark]

Here's the cover:

Awesome.

 

[gutter_trash]

nice one

 

[Seventy70]

If we're using the line of logic that's common in these discussions that says religious people should not be responsible for those who abuse the words of their religion to commit horrible actions, then it seems to follow that some cartoonists and free-speech advocates should not be responsible for the actions of some deranged right-wingers who use it as cover for their horrible actions.

They aren't responsible, but that doesn't mean they can't help. Look at the cover for this issue. How is a person looking at it supposed to know that it's supposed to be Muhammad and not an everyday innocent Muslim? Since Muhammad doesn't have a widely accepted appearance, they need to clarify who that is. Some people are going to get the message that it's ok to discriminate and be racist.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Good cover. Not done in poor taste like some of their others either...unless you count the whole depicting Muhammad thing.

 

[ElTorro]

Well Muslims are definitely a minority in France. And "peaceful" Muslims (would have just preferred Muslims) are the ones who get hurt the most by these comics even if they are not the intended audience.

I am offended by the orthodox teachings and scriptures of all three abrahamic religions. All of them basically tell me that I personally — not just some figure or idea that I happen to like — am a worthless piece of shit for not believing, and that I literally deserve the harshest punishment. They are (thankfully) being printed nonetheless. Can anything be more tasteless than that? Why does nobody care about my feelings?

 

[ComputerMKII]

It's the color of Islam. (In the West it's the color of hope.)

And a lot more things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green#Symbolism_and_associations

 

[Scoot McNairy]

How about I put it less gently: I'll have to see if what they're putting out is actually hate speech (incitement of national, racial, and/or religious hatred) or satire (use of humor, irony, or ridicule to expose and criticize).

What's your thoughts on the cover?

Personally, I think it's

1. a fitting tribute to their late colleagues on the magazine, and one which would have made them proud;
2. not offensive in the slightest to any right-thinking person;
3. clever and fairly funny;
4. wholly original (it's not been done before on social media); and
5. arguably palatable enough for many the worldwide media to show the image on screens and in the papers over the course of this week.

I hope I'm right on the last one. For the sake of the planet.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Good cover. Not done in poor taste like some of their others either...unless you count the whole depicting Muhammad thing.

Depicting Muhammad wasn't always forbidden:

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I've never understood the notion that 'beliefs ought to be respected'... I feel that beliefs ought to be challanged, especially those that people claim should be unquestionable.

The idea of offence and how it has been twisted to try and silence criticsm is reaching a crescendo. Guess what, I'm 'offended' every day by the things I see/hear around me. I'm offended by the subjugation of different peoples by religious dogma, I'm offended by the anti-science/anti ctitical thinking promoted by the media, I'm offended by the notion that people can be killed for causing offence... The point is my offence gives me pause to evaluate why I'm offended, and what method can I use to challange those that cause me offence (hint: it doesn't include violence). Now I'm using 'offence' in a broad context that probably encompasses many feelings/emotions, but being offended by something doesn't automatically mean that the ones causing you offence have to respect your point of view, it's not some 'get out of jail free card' for shutting down the conversation.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Never mind. I'm not poking that hornet's nest.

 

[Gambit 1138]

Good. Fuck these people already.

 

[The Purple Pill]

Here's the cover:

Great cover, looking forward to buying it.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

So it's just Sky creating stories?

News media gonna news media, apparently

 

[Seventy70]

Never mind. I'm not poking that hornet's nest.

I don't see what the need is to be so bitter. Do you think that it's going to help?

 

[ComputerMKII]

So, they strike again with another Muhammad caricature.

Terrorists status: Mega-fail

 

[Raist]

I don't see what the need is to be so hateful and bitter. Do you think that it's going to help?

Show me one example of Charlie Hebdo being hateful towards muslims in general.

 

[Seventy70]

Show me one example of Charlie Hebdo being hateful towards muslims in general.

I was responding to Colonel Mustard's post before he edited. Also, hateful might have been the wrong word to use, so I'm going to remove it.

 

[Irminsul]

They aren't responsible, but that doesn't mean they can't help. Look at the cover for this issue. How is a person looking at it supposed to know that it's supposed to be Muhammad and not an everyday innocent Muslim? Since Muhammad doesn't have a widely accepted appearance, they need to clarify who that is. Some people are going to get the message that it's ok to discriminate and be racist.

How are you getting this out of this cover? So, for the sake of the argument, let's just pretend that's an ordinary Muslim. Now what? He's Charlie. Like a lot of Muslims were in the demonstration. Now that's racist because...?

 

[Magni]

aside from free speech. France does have a racism problem and integration problem that has not be dealt with well since post WW2 reconstruction.

Charlie Hebo did make fun of the Portuguese community in one of their cartoons and I as a Portuguese-Canadian taking it from a North American point of view found it to be early 20th Century jab at an ethnic minority. Poor taste.
Even if they tried to be funny, it was still a jab a the Portuguese community in France who in past decades were considered to be just a lower class of immigrant at time.

Can you link to that cover/cartoon? Charlie Hebdo is known for being pro-immigration, I'd imagine the cartoon was poking fun at anti-immigration people's Portuguese stereotypes, rather than reinforcing the stereotypes.

 

[nilbog21]

Special Edition? Are they cashing in on all the publicity?

Ya dude, this is rolling out just the way they planned all along!!

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Edit: I see it was posted a long time ago. Surprised they didn't go with something edgier.